Is 1A tougher than 2A this year??

[IGo42]

1A-3 District Champ Regina- thumped 2A qualifer West Liberty, beat 3A District Champ Williamsburg
1A-7 District Champ Van Meter- Beat 3A district Champ Williamsburg, 3A District Champ Winterset
1A-4 District Champ Beckman- beat 2A runner-up Monticello, 2A runner up Camanche
1A-3 Dike- thumped 2A runner up Clear Lake
1A-4 3rd place MFL- beat 2A District Champ Osage, 2A qualifer New Hampton
1A-6 District Champ Sigourney Keota- thumped 3A runner up Mid-Prairie

Just a few examples. I know there are some really good 2A teams, especially in NW Iowa. Eastern Iowa is loaded with good 1A teams.

 

[PNation]

I think that Van Meter would win either the 1A or 2A title, but overall I think the examples you are showing are from the weakest districts in 2A.

 

[ISUChip]

2A was 29-32 head-to-head against 1A, with four OT losses.

Undefeated 1A teams accounted for 11 of the 32 wins.
The one-loss 1A teams accounted for another 5.

So, half of 1A's wins over 2A were by teams that finished either 8-0 or 7-1.

 

[ISUChip]

It's also easy to cherry-pick:

Central Lyon (2A-1 runner-up) beat West Sioux (1A-1 champ) by 30.
West Lyon (2A-1 champ) beat Western (1A-1 runner-up) by 28.
Pocahontas (2A-2 5th place) beat South Central Calhoun (1A-2 champ).

 

[IGo42]

2A was 29-32 head-to-head against 1A, with four OT losses.

Undefeated 1A teams accounted for 11 of the 32 wins.
The one-loss 1A teams accounted for another 5.

So, half of 1A's wins over 2A were by teams that finished either 8-0 or 7-1.

Wouldn't a person expect a higher winning percentage in 2A? Maybe more of the top end 1A play middle of the road 2A & 3A, but there are a lot of examples of good 1A schools beating equally good 2A schools.

You said half the 1A wins over 2A/3A competition were by 8-0 & 7-1 teams, that also means the other half of the wins by 1A schools were teams with a 6-2 or worse record. The examples of 2A schools putting a thumping on good 1A schools is all Western Iowa, either the eastern half of the state has really good 1A football or the 2A's in Eastern Iowa aren't that good (with the exception of Waukon).

 

[ISUChip]

Should Tipton or Central Lee (0-8 in 2A) automatically expect to be better than Wilton, Mepo, or Cardinal (5-3 in 1A) just because of their school size?

 

[IGo42]

Should Tipton or Central Lee (0-8 in 2A) automatically expect to be better than Wilton, Mepo, or Cardinal (5-3 in 1A) just because of their school size?

No I don't, but overall 1A beat 2A statewide (good, average, bad). You'd expect a higher winning percentage with a bigger class. That's why I suggested 1A is better than 2A (overall) this season.

Friendly banter ISUChip, not trying to get your goat.

Curious how 2A did against 3A, overall. Could you post that?

 

[ISUChip]

I'd expect that the absolute best teams in a particular class could beat average/bad teams in the next class higher -- which is mostly what happened.

 

[IGo42]

All my examples in original post were good 1A vs playoff qualifiers in 2A/3A, not bad teams. I'm sure there are more, those are just some that I knew of by watching scores over the year.

If we can't agree that 1A is tougher than 2A (overall), I think it's fair to admit that 1A is equally as good as 2A this year.

 

[Pinehawk]

The examples posted in the OP are when good 1A teams played good 2A teams. The 1A teams have a lot of quality wins on the board.

 

[blcoach80]

I can't speak for other schools, but I know Waukon has scheduled their non district games against 4A and 3A schools (other than another non-district 2A once in awhile) for the last 5 or 6 years because the smaller A and 1A schools won't schedule against them anymore as they weren't competitive and refused to schedule them anymore (they used to play MFL every year as we are only 15 miles apart). It also helps your RPI if you schedule against tougher teams in higher classes for seeding come playoff time as well. A loss to a highly ranked bigger school seems to not affect your RPI as much as even thumping a weaker smaller school and BCMoore seems to be the same. This could be why 1A seems better this year. Are the best 1A the only ones scheduling up against bigger schools? I don't know.

 

[MepoDawg#]

I can't speak for other schools, but I know Waukon has scheduled their non district games against 4A and 3A schools (other than another non-district 2A once in awhile) for the last 5 or 6 years because the smaller A and 1A schools won't schedule against them anymore as they weren't competitive and refused to schedule them anymore (they used to play MFL every year as we are only 15 miles apart). It also helps your RPI if you schedule against tougher teams in higher classes for seeding come playoff time as well. A loss to a highly ranked bigger school seems to not affect your RPI as much as even thumping a weaker smaller school and BCMoore seems to be the same. This could be why 1A seems better this year. Are the best 1A the only ones scheduling up against bigger schools? I don't know.

Mepo played A, 2A, and 3A teams in non-district play. Unfortunately, the Class A team was the best of the three and the 2A/3A teams are a combined 0-16. In junior high, Mepo plays Mt. Pleasant, Fairfield, Washington and West Burlington as well as Central Lee and wins many of those games. We scrimmage Fort Madison in the preseason.

For better competition we’d need to travel further north and west out of district or step up and play Burlington/Fort Madison which are 4A schools.

 

[Huehney]

Beckman had a running clock vs Monticello for a bit and was up 21 vs Camanche in the 4th. Those 2 ended up 1 and 2 in district and were both ranked high when Beckman beat them. Watching all the games, I would say waterloo Columbus and mfl are both more solid squads imo.

 

[Prancing Ponies]

Any given week, top teams can beat each other. However, if you look at top 10 in 2A versus 1A, I think 1A would be over .500.

 

[IGo42]

I can't speak for other schools, but I know Waukon has scheduled their non district games against 4A and 3A schools (other than another non-district 2A once in awhile) for the last 5 or 6 years because the smaller A and 1A schools won't schedule against them anymore as they weren't competitive and refused to schedule them anymore (they used to play MFL every year as we are only 15 miles apart). It also helps your RPI if you schedule against tougher teams in higher classes for seeding come playoff time as well. A loss to a highly ranked bigger school seems to not affect your RPI as much as even thumping a weaker smaller school and BCMoore seems to be the same. This could be why 1A seems better this year. Are the best 1A the only ones scheduling up against bigger schools? I don't know.

There is no RPI in 8man-2A, so there really is no incentive for the smaller schools to play bigger schools unless they just want better competition.

Also you are correct that MFL hasn't played Waukon in a 5-6 years. MFL wasn't good until a couple years ago, Cedar Rapids Gazette said they went 26 years without a winning season and now have a new coach and they've been good the last 3 years. Maybe now that they're solid they'll play Waukon again. They did beat 2A-3 Osage and New Hampton who were champs and 3rd so I don't think they're dodging solid schools that are bigger.

 

[blcoach80]

There is no RPI in 8man-2A, so there really is no incentive for the smaller schools to play bigger schools unless they just want better competition.

Also you are correct that MFL hasn't played Waukon in a 5-6 years. MFL wasn't good until a couple years ago, they went 26 years without a winning record and now have a new coach and they've been good the last 3 years. Maybe now that they're solid they'll play Waukon again. They did beat 2A-3 Osage and New Hampton who were champs and 3rd so I don't think they're dodging solid schools that are bigger.

I agree with this. I think MFL is a much better program than they were 5 years ago. Coaching makes all the difference in the world at any school. High school football is really heavy on the haves and the have nots in todays game. The RPI was much more important before 2/3rds of the teams made the playoffs and they had at large bids, which I wish they would have kept. The athletic association wants more playoff teams because it means more games, which is more revenue for them cut and dried!

 

[IGo42]

I agree with this. I think MFL is a much better program than they were 5 years ago. Coaching makes all the difference in the world at any school. High school football is really heavy on the haves and the have nots in todays game. The RPI was much more important before 2/3rds of the teams made the playoffs and they had at large bids, which I wish they would have kept. The athletic association wants more playoff teams because it means more games, which is more revenue for them cut and dried!

Yeah that Tim Lovell at Linn-Mar really turned that program around fast. Think Linn-Mar only won 1 game last year and they're 7-1 with the new coach. Some coaches have it and some don't, it's not just about having good players (although that's definitely part of it), some coaches get kids to play harder and believe in their system.

 

[rc1963]

Yeah that Tim Lovell at Linn-Mar really turned that program around fast. Think Linn-Mar only won 1 game last year and they're 7-1 with the new coach. Some coaches have it and some don't, it's not just about having good players (although that's definitely part of it), some coaches get kids to play harder and believe in their system.

...and believe in each other. Football is one of the great team sports. A star can carry a lot of success but makes a team vulnerable if they can't play as a team. A great team know each other, believes in each other and in the end trusts each other. There are great things a great team can do to support a star or when joined against one, make him irrelevant. Coaching is huge in building that.

 

[NWIowaSioux]

No I don't, but overall 1A beat 2A statewide (good, average, bad). You'd expect a higher winning percentage with a bigger class. That's why I suggested 1A is better than 2A (overall) this season.

Friendly banter ISUChip, not trying to get your goat.

Curious how 2A did against 3A, overall. Could you post that?

2A vs 3A this year is 7-25.
4 of the 7 wins were agains 0-8 3A teams
None of the wins were against a 3A team with a record above .500

 

[janklow]

2A vs 3A this year is 7-25.
4 of the 7 wins were agains 0-8 3A teams
None of the wins were against a 3A team with a record above .500

Now that is an interesting stat.

 

[NWIowaSioux]

Another interesting stat I came across while looking at the 2A vs 3A comparison. 2A is 7-5 against 4A opponents this year.

Maybe 2A > 4A this year (100% kidding)

 

[paednoch23]

Now that is an interesting stat.

If the top 10 in 3A played the Top 10 in 2A, 3A would go 10-0.

 

[HawkinWater]

If the top 10 in 3A played the Top 10 in 2A, 3A would go 10-0.

Bold prediction. CLGLR had SBL on the ropes. Incomplete pass on 4th down from the 8 yard line with 5 seconds left to tie it up. Did they win? No they didn't. Could they have won that game? Absolutely

 

[NWIowaSioux]

Bold prediction. CLGLR had SBL on the ropes. Incomplete pass on 4th down from the 8 yard line with 5 seconds left to tie it up. Did they win? No they didn't. Could they have won that game? Absolutely

And that’s with a 3A team ranked around 10 and a 2A team towards the top. Start going up in the 3A rankings and they got beat good by BHRV. Not so bold of a prediction just accurate.

 

[HawkinWater]

And that’s with a 3A team ranked around 10 and a 2A team towards the top. Start going up in the 3A rankings and they got beat good by BHRV. Not so bold of a prediction just accurate.

ELC was up on Humboldt 14 zip ended up losing 28-38 that game was close. Last I looked CLGLR is ranked like 8th depending on what you look at. So no not a team ranked towards the top. Is BHRV and Harlan really good? Yeah they are I'm not sure there's a team in 2A that could beat them. Some of the teams out East like Solon and West Delaware I'm sure are also really good. Anyone else in the top ten in 3A I know nothing about so tough to comment on that. I just see 2 teams in the top ten that I think some 2A teams could probably get it done on a good day. So yeah 3A probably gets the vast majority of the wins but to say they go 10-0. I ain't buying it.

 

[blcoach80]

It is really hard to predict outcomes in high school football if the teams are very even in talent. High school football is so matchup oriented. Just because team A beats team B by 1 point and team C beats team A by 4 touchdowns doesn't mean team C beats team B by 4 touchdowns as well. In the smaller classes it really boils down to game prep and whether a team has the studs to match up against another team's studs. The bigger classes usually don't play both ways, but a lot of the smaller classes do. Usually if they are a stud on offense, they are a stud on defense as well. Waukon beat Solon last year in the quarterfinals by 2 touchdowns. Both teams have different players this year, so who knows what would happen if they played again. We can all speculate, but that is why they play the games. On paper doesn't really mean much in the playoffs! Does 3A win more games than 2A? Sure, but all ten, I highly doubt it. I also don't think 2A is as top heavy this year as in the past. Lots of questions will be answered in the next 3 weeks.

 

[NWIowaSioux]

ELC was up on Humboldt 14 zip ended up losing 28-38 that game was close. Last I looked CLGLR is ranked like 8th depending on what you look at. So no not a team ranked towards the top. Is BHRV and Harlan really good? Yeah they are I'm not sure there's a team in 2A that could beat them. Some of the teams out East like Solon and West Delaware I'm sure are also really good. Anyone else in the top ten in 3A I know nothing about so tough to comment on that. I just see 2 teams in the top ten that I think some 2A teams could probably get it done on a good day. So yeah 3A probably gets the vast majority of the wins but to say they go 10-0. I ain't buying it.

Well when a top 10 3A team has played a top 10 2A team this year, they are 6-0. You don't have to buy it, but in the games that actually happened it's accurate.

 

[ghost80]

These arguments pop up every year and are silly.

Whenever someone talks about X Team playing up and beating Y team in a higher class, somehow making X team better than the Y team's class I always tell them to pump the brakes.

Why were different classes created to group school of similar size together? To eliminate any unfair advantage of sheer enrollment among teams.....it isn't about whose best? Anyone with half a brain knows there are many more variables that go into making a good team than just the size of the school...but that is one thing that Boone can control. They can't control the demographics and a wealthy suburb may have more resources to throw at a kids development even before they start school ball than an inter city or possibly rural school.

Theoretically the larger the class, the bigger the pool of kids to draw their talent from, AND the bigger the pool to also have for depth. I realize two waying is becoming more common place in higher classes as a way to win (keep your best players on the field as much as possible) but theoretically the larger classes should be able to two way less and be in a better position if a two way goes down.

When someone brags about playing up and beating a bigger team I usually remind them that it would have been a ND game, which typically are early in the year, and had they played later in the year they would have been less likely to win (or by as much). That would be especially true had they played in the higher class for the whole season.

People should STFU about winning up....unless they have played a whole season (including post season) up......then brag away.

 

[Pinehawk]

You make good points, but I don't necessarily agree with your bottom line.
Those two teams lined up and played. The team that won was the better team. Both teams and classes improve over the course of the season.
The stats and records tell a story of which schools and classes were stronger in any given year. Which also changes from year to year.
2A is down this year. It shows with their record against both 1A and 3A.

 

[paednoch23]

Bold prediction. CLGLR had SBL on the ropes. Incomplete pass on 4th down from the 8 yard line with 5 seconds left to tie it up. Did they win? No they didn't. Could they have won that game? Absolutely

Let me rephrase this. 3A 1-10 vs 2A 1-10. By this is Mean #1 in 3A plays #1 in 2A followed by #2s head to head and so on in order. 3A would be 10 -0 in that scenario and it wouldn't even be close