North Linn poor sportsmanship & running up score
- Thread starter theocia
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I'm sure Calapari is licking his chops or maybe the Luther coach for this statistical freak.. Almost 100% of NL field goals are set up by assists LOL. Unheard of and bush league. Nice try though.
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I went to a basketball game last night where the opposing team was up by 1 point and literally ran there half court offense with out taking a shot for 2 mins in one trip down the court... You can't tell me that this great north linn team can't do that or is even trying to when they are ahead 50 pts or more... All the good teams in the state have easy games some nights and not very many are scoring over a hundred points say what you want but they are absolutely running up the score!
Actually, yes, ESPECIALLY in high school sports. They're teenagers; it's high time they learn about life and how the adult world works.
When our now-16 year old daughter was little, she played Upward basketball, a nice church-affilated sports league for little kids. At that age, they played games, but didn't keep score. Our daughter secretly kept score even though it wasn't official, and I'm pretty sure she wasn't the only one. When we asked why she thought it was important, she said "when we're playing later, they'll keep score. We might as well learn now." Pretty heady for a six-year-old girl.
I wouldn't condone running up the score just to rub the other team's nose in it. But teams have to play to get better. I would put my reserves in when the score is no longer in doubt, but I would tell them to play with all the intensity & focus that they would if the score were 0-0. They don't get better if they're holding back & not playing as they normally would.
Maybe you should look at the percentages before bashing someone. It is actually 65% and that is not even close to the highest percentage in the state.
Before getting on a message board and ridiculing North Linn, maybe one should attend a game or watch some HUDL before claiming they know the situation. North Linn is a basketball powerhouse right now, in Boys and Girls Basketball. The boys team has 10 varsity kids. They are extremely well Coached by one sure-fire Hall of Famer in Bob Hilmer and probably another in Mike Hilmer.
Everyone talking smoke about Mike padding his son, Jake’s stats is simply bogus. To pad steal stats is impossible. The kid has motor that is unmatched. Games now are on HUDL if you need to verify any stat. Recently in a game, Jake sat the most of the 3rd quarter and all of the 4th quarter due to discipline during halftime. In this game, Jake still finished with a 14/11/3/5 line to Central City team that is supposed to be decent.
North Linn can do nothing about the teams that they play. The new Tri-Rivers is so big they have 2-3 open dates that they can go play out of conference. They played a WAMAC team in their Hall of Pride scrimmage and destroyed them; winning big against a 3A team must mean something. This 103-8 game, North Linn played its bottom 5 plays for most of the 2nd half and still won the 2nd half 32-4 and did not SHOOT the BASKETBALL for the last 4 minutes of the game. Midland didn’t do much to help the outcome. At one point in the 2nd half, it seemed like the team’s offense was to give everyone at shot at the volleyball line, which resulted in 5 consecutive bad shots and zero points. Now, North Linn is good but Midland couldn’t run a simple offense when North Linn backed off.
North Linn’s team is a prime example of kids being taught the game the right way from a very young age and playing it the right way together. They have done the AAU circuit together and some of them have played on even more advanced teams. Hilmer is trying to win a state title, last year was the first time North Linn had been to state since the 70’s. If they make it that far, they will have to inevitably face some parochial schools with kids not even from the state. Not once in this thread has it said anything about the parochial school system in regards to athletics. Maybe before ridiculing little ole North Linn, whose enrollment is dropping by the teens each year, one should ridicule this as well.
Everyone talking smoke about Mike padding his son, Jake’s stats is simply bogus. To pad steal stats is impossible. The kid has motor that is unmatched. Games now are on HUDL if you need to verify any stat. Recently in a game, Jake sat the most of the 3rd quarter and all of the 4th quarter due to discipline during halftime. In this game, Jake still finished with a 14/11/3/5 line to Central City team that is supposed to be decent.
North Linn can do nothing about the teams that they play. The new Tri-Rivers is so big they have 2-3 open dates that they can go play out of conference. They played a WAMAC team in their Hall of Pride scrimmage and destroyed them; winning big against a 3A team must mean something. This 103-8 game, North Linn played its bottom 5 plays for most of the 2nd half and still won the 2nd half 32-4 and did not SHOOT the BASKETBALL for the last 4 minutes of the game. Midland didn’t do much to help the outcome. At one point in the 2nd half, it seemed like the team’s offense was to give everyone at shot at the volleyball line, which resulted in 5 consecutive bad shots and zero points. Now, North Linn is good but Midland couldn’t run a simple offense when North Linn backed off.
North Linn’s team is a prime example of kids being taught the game the right way from a very young age and playing it the right way together. They have done the AAU circuit together and some of them have played on even more advanced teams. Hilmer is trying to win a state title, last year was the first time North Linn had been to state since the 70’s. If they make it that far, they will have to inevitably face some parochial schools with kids not even from the state. Not once in this thread has it said anything about the parochial school system in regards to athletics. Maybe before ridiculing little ole North Linn, whose enrollment is dropping by the teens each year, one should ridicule this as well.
Get a clue...you realize that North Linn is coached by Bob Hilmer. The winning-est coach in IOWA history and the most well respected PERSON in Iowa high school athletics. Before you speak, watch a game first. You have no clue what you are talking about.
Quick question to those saying a 105-8 score is okay, and doesn't reflect poorly on NL. Would you still be okay with the handling and sportsmanship if your team was on the other side of that score?
I think you might have different views if GVC or Heelan was on the wrong end of a 105 to 8 score. Easy to say everything's kosher when your team is currently on the winning end of the lopsides.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on how you'd view a Diaganol if they came out and beat GVC by 97. Some of us still remember that game from last season.
As stated in prior posts, there are tons of ways to keep the score down.
I think you might have different views if GVC or Heelan was on the wrong end of a 105 to 8 score. Easy to say everything's kosher when your team is currently on the winning end of the lopsides.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on how you'd view a Diaganol if they came out and beat GVC by 97. Some of us still remember that game from last season.
As stated in prior posts, there are tons of ways to keep the score down.
Not so sure about that...I'd guess that many around the state see those recent scores and have a pretty low opinion of N. Linn's coaching at the moment.
Well it was 87 points not 97.
If you read my post, I can see it both ways, I'm not entirely defending the approach. I think sometimes you can back it off a bit.And GVC doesn't have to think about being on the receiving end of this hypothetically. They got absolutely crushed in football the last several years in a number of games (showed some improvement the end of this year), in some cases by some of the same teams that they are beating in basketball. No it's not fun, but I don't have any problem with what the others teams have done. I certainly wouldn't want them to intentionally fall down when they're playing offense or intentionally let them score when they're playing defense. That would be just as disrespectful.
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Interesting that some folks are actually defending a 97 point margin.
I found a total of 5 games in Iowa with a 75+ point margin so far this year - 4 have been by N. Linn.
Took a look at the stats of the Springville game which NL won 92-36. NL scored 22 points in the 4th quarter. Only 11 points total were scored by non-starters for NL in that game. This means that NL starters were playing (and scoring) in the 4th quarter of a game where they led 70-28 at the end of the 3rd. Even if you assume that non-starters scored zero points in the first 3 quarters (doubtful), the starters were in and scored 11 points in the 4th. Not cool.
I found a total of 5 games in Iowa with a 75+ point margin so far this year - 4 have been by N. Linn.
Took a look at the stats of the Springville game which NL won 92-36. NL scored 22 points in the 4th quarter. Only 11 points total were scored by non-starters for NL in that game. This means that NL starters were playing (and scoring) in the 4th quarter of a game where they led 70-28 at the end of the 3rd. Even if you assume that non-starters scored zero points in the first 3 quarters (doubtful), the starters were in and scored 11 points in the 4th. Not cool.
That's what makes it so egregious!
He should know better (maybe should have retired long ago?)
I have almost zero respect for a coach that runs up the score over and over.
@cruhawk : One of the biggest lessons of youth sports is teaching how to be a gracious winner/loser. Huge fail!
Defend this TurkeyFarmer.
(I suspect you are a mere chicken farmer & are inflating your status)
From someone who ACTUALLY covers HS sports and has witnessed NL play....
I'm not going to accuse NL of anything as I haven't seen them play, but I can say from experience it is sometimes hard to know how far to ease up.
My second year coaching we were in a situation against Assumption where we lead by 30-35 in the second half early. I hadn't been in the situation before. I had won by 32 in 1 game, but that was stretched by 8-10 with the reserves in the last 4 minutes. I began using 1-2 more guys i mid-3rd quarter. Then with a 40+ point lead and 3 minutes left I emptied the bench. I thought about it after the game and decided I could have made the move sooner. The other coach was still using his main guys until 4 minutes left.
I came into a similar situation later that year as we led by 20-25 to start the 4th against Davenport West. Parents of one of the the kids who hadn't played complained that I wasn't using everyone yet. I went with the reserves to start the 4th and watched a 20+ lead dwindle to 9 in less then 4 minutes. I went back to the starters and we had lost all rhythm and momentum, but held on for a win by 7. The other coach never put his reserves in the game.
One thing I learned from those situations is that each situation is different and I adapted a new rule for myself. No matter what the score is I expect the opposing coach to concede the game by making the choice to go with his reserves before I will take the top guys out.
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My third year I faced issues similar to what NL is facing due to a talented group. We played 3 games in the summer with only 6 or 7 guys. Maquoketa 55-7, Dewitt 82-11, and Geneseo, IL 72-9. The opposing coaches kept up team pressure and my adjustment for our team was to pack it in and not go for steals to ease up on them. I knew with 7 guys I didn't have anyone who hadn't played to use. I also made a "no fast break" rule when I called a timeout and talked with them. So, in the case they got a steal they would pull it out and run the offense at least 3 times through as we would in practice before looking for a shot.
My whole thing is I'm coaching my team to play with class and sportsmanship, but I'm not coaching them to not play the game. By setting limitations on what they could do in the game that allowed them to work on other ways to score and improve on other parts of the game.
My second year coaching we were in a situation against Assumption where we lead by 30-35 in the second half early. I hadn't been in the situation before. I had won by 32 in 1 game, but that was stretched by 8-10 with the reserves in the last 4 minutes. I began using 1-2 more guys i mid-3rd quarter. Then with a 40+ point lead and 3 minutes left I emptied the bench. I thought about it after the game and decided I could have made the move sooner. The other coach was still using his main guys until 4 minutes left.
I came into a similar situation later that year as we led by 20-25 to start the 4th against Davenport West. Parents of one of the the kids who hadn't played complained that I wasn't using everyone yet. I went with the reserves to start the 4th and watched a 20+ lead dwindle to 9 in less then 4 minutes. I went back to the starters and we had lost all rhythm and momentum, but held on for a win by 7. The other coach never put his reserves in the game.
One thing I learned from those situations is that each situation is different and I adapted a new rule for myself. No matter what the score is I expect the opposing coach to concede the game by making the choice to go with his reserves before I will take the top guys out.
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My third year I faced issues similar to what NL is facing due to a talented group. We played 3 games in the summer with only 6 or 7 guys. Maquoketa 55-7, Dewitt 82-11, and Geneseo, IL 72-9. The opposing coaches kept up team pressure and my adjustment for our team was to pack it in and not go for steals to ease up on them. I knew with 7 guys I didn't have anyone who hadn't played to use. I also made a "no fast break" rule when I called a timeout and talked with them. So, in the case they got a steal they would pull it out and run the offense at least 3 times through as we would in practice before looking for a shot.
My whole thing is I'm coaching my team to play with class and sportsmanship, but I'm not coaching them to not play the game. By setting limitations on what they could do in the game that allowed them to work on other ways to score and improve on other parts of the game.
Being on the wrong end of a loss(20 points and 22 points). I can say that I never expected the opposing coach to take his foot off the peddle until I had began playing my reserves. My team doesn't get better by playing against stationary bodies on the court. Dialing back pressure can help lesser teams work a little more and teach better teams how to be more disciplined.
Those who think NL should "hold the ball", "not shoot", and "dress other players"... Please don't ever coach. Teams don't get better by watching kids hold the ball, kids don't get better by watching a team repeatedly pass up shots they earned, and teams are limited on jerseys as well as the coach determines who deserves to play varsity. Just because the other team is "bad" they should dress kids who haven't practiced with the team and don't know the plays because they may win by a lot and upset the snowflake parents.
Those who think NL should "hold the ball", "not shoot", and "dress other players"... Please don't ever coach. Teams don't get better by watching kids hold the ball, kids don't get better by watching a team repeatedly pass up shots they earned, and teams are limited on jerseys as well as the coach determines who deserves to play varsity. Just because the other team is "bad" they should dress kids who haven't practiced with the team and don't know the plays because they may win by a lot and upset the snowflake parents.
It is humorous that people on here are forming opinions base on QuickStats and not having seen the team actually play. Every team in the area and conference that play NL know what they bring to the table. They also know that Coach Hilmer is a man of high regard and higher integrity. Let's not forget that the Tri-Rivers gets 2 non-conference games and theirs are against a 2A team and an unclassified 4A team. The game that these boys have played since my son started playing against them is an up tempo transition game, always has been and always will be. The bottom line is that they are that good and any team that can stay within 30 of them is a very good team.
As for hard fouls and intentionally trying to hurt a player, you should be ashamed of hiding behind a keyboard and typing that.
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Hang around at the little schools for 50 years and yes, get can alot of wins . Not many state titles on that resume, a lot of losses too. As for MOST respected in Iowa athletics , laughable at best.
Hopefully senior Hillmer will teach his kid a little about respect and how to schedule and even how to count. 100 assists lol
Enough on this attempted con job, enjoy your 2 seconds of fame. As we all laugh at it.
Bush League.
Learn how to schedule? How about learn how HS athletics works? NL is locked into 19 conference games and they have absolutely no say in those nor who is in their conference. I am sure you know that though, since you seem to have such a great understanding of the situation.
It's interesting that those who have seen this team are the ones coming to their defense. Those of you that are not, seems to be a lot of jealousy to me.
NL players and coaches - ignore the noise. You have put in the years of hard work and you deserve the success you are having.
AGAIN.....I challenge any of you defending North Linn to justify Greenway's statement for the rest of us.
It's not socialism.
We're not saying take point away and give them to the opponent.
We're not saying to make them play 7 vs 5.
We're saying, "Let's teach kids how to respect their opponents, whether you're winning or losing."
North Linn is sending an awful message to the little kids watching them play.
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I'll challenge you to defend this too.
Western Christian has had a lot more success, and their coach has a lot of wins in 20 fewer years (he might have padded his Win stats & got 1000 wins with a "co-coach"). They often play a high pressure D.
Why haven't they put up blow-out wins like NL?
1) They DO seek out a tough schedule (something NL can't control)
2) They recognize when the game is out of hand. You can still play hard, make hard cuts and passes while taking 1-2 minutes off the clock each possession (especially with a running clock)- something NL can control.
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How many of the people who have seen NL play and defend their approach have some connection to the school?
Let's re-phrase and ask how many complaining have witnessed a game of theirs this year and are even in eastern Iowa?
Bob Hilmer coached for many years at Forest City, not exactly a small school. Your comment, like most is off base. If you don't think Coach Hilmer (both of them) are well respected in the basketball community, you are WAY off base and flat out wrong. By basketball community, I mean other coaches, officials, players, etc. Not the know-it-all fans sitting in the stands.
As for the Springville game - two of the NL players had 61 of their 92 points. Let's assume they were out in the 4th (since nobody who has seen NL play in person can verify those two being in during the 4th quarters of blowouts). That means the other 8 players in their roster (starters or not) combined for the other 31. Maybe in a strange plan to get some other 3rd, 4th, 5th scorers some confidence, they were allowed to play some minutes in the 4th. I see no issue with that, especially when you know the opponent is playing with their starters at that point. By the way Springville in that game was only down 8 at the end of the 1st and lost the 3rd quarter 11-8, so one can assume they have some functional players at minimum.
AGAIN - those bashing these (well respected) coaches and kids have not seen one single game. Seems like everyone who has seen them has a different and more realistic take on the situation. Agree to disagree I guess, but I would encourage those who are questioning the situation, come and watch. I know I intend to catch a couple more games this season. They are a tremendously talented group and a lot of fun to watch. After seeing them play, I have no question those stats are accurate. It is like you are watching a video game in front of your eyes. They really are just that much more talented than teams on their schedule (which again, they cannot control).
No connection - just a old retired fan of the game. Live in Independence, about 35 minutes from NL. I can tell you in our community, their program is held in high regard.
This could not be a truer statement. It is worth every penny of the $5 admission fee to watch these kids play their game.
* It stinks to sit on the other side, but they make it a little easier!
No he’s not. Of course he’s a damn good player. He is not a D1 player. No, they do not call off the dogs. They press and push pace the entire game. Why is he even playing 2 1/2 quarters in a blow out? he’s already put up over 1000 points. Is that the goal? Did the same thing last year, got to the Well and couldn’t score. The coach having his dad as co-coach just to add to his win total is bad enough. Beating a team by 100 is not increasing your chance of winning a state title. Play your freshmen and have your varsity scrimmage hard in practice. You’ll gain a helluva lot more doing that.
Really? It’s enjoyable to watch a layup drill? No thanks. 105-8 is not enjoyable. I’ve watched them before.watching a team press and push pace agains obviously weaker opponents is not worth 5 bucks. I also saw them struggle mightily to score at the Well last year against competition. That was enjoyable.
So you have seen Hilmer play once? Everyone in the area knew that last year was the preview of what was coming this year as this is THE year for them. They are a more mature and experienced team this year.
As to your comment of sitting your stars and just let them practice hard. Are you serious? Are you really saying to penalize your stars playing time due to being "too good"? That sounds like the "participation trophy" mentality.
Exactly right - NL will likely blowout everyone on their schedule. So if you sit their stars each night, essentially those kids get to play the equivalent of half the season. Quite a reward for those kids who have put in countless hours in the gym to get where they are today.
Sorry boys, you are too good again tonight, time to put in the freshmen team (who already played a full JV game) Makes a lot of sense to me.
Of course scores are going to be lower at state, that could be said for every team. NL went 2-1 at the state tourney and finished 3rd last year. Not sure if I would qualify that as struggling mightily. If so, I think most teams would be happy with that struggle.
Couple things - No, they do not press the whole game, the games I saw the press was pulled off in the 1st quarter.
You think just practicing and playing your freshmen increases your chance of winning a title? I am not saying playing this weak competition does either, but to imply that they should only play their stars in practice is ridiculous. I would assume this team already practices plenty hard.
For someone to say that the Tri-Rivers is a poor conference, they are not in tune with the conference. Yes, you have NL that is the best team in the state, but you then move to a group of 5-8 teams that are beating each other up on a weekly basis with solid play and finally you get to the group that is struggling this season. You might want to learn the conference before you make derogatory comments about the schools, coaches and most importantly, the kids playing.
I don't think the TRC is a poor conference overall. NL is head and shoulders above everyone and would be in a lot of conferences. There are some weak teams at the bottom of the league (every league has those), those are the teams I was referring to in my post. There are always talented teams and coaches from schools such as Lisbon, Alburnett, etc. Ed-Co has a very nice team as well this season.
Not necessarily directed at you as someone said that the Tri-Rivers is a weak conference earlier.
Based on a prior post, score was 73-4 at half. I think it's safe to assume the game is at hand at that point. I don't see a maxstabs13 situation here where they are coming back to within 20 when already down by 69 after 2 quarters. This is not a case of being unsure when to pull starters.
2nd half, NL goes on to score 32 more in 16 minutes of play... at a minimum that is one basket a minute. How hard is it to pull the ball out from lay ups or rebounds and run more clock? Is there at least one sub during every break in action during a running clock to slow/pause the game a bit? A prior poster indicated they held the ball 4 minutes, so they apparently made up for that somewhere by scoring more than a basket a minute elsewhere in the 2nd half.
It's been mentioned they'll need to practice their offense and defense to get state ready. Walk me through how practicing their offense and defense against a team that has only scored 4 and allowed 73 in 16 minutes really improves any aspect of their O or D? It's pretty apparent that team isn't providing any sort of challenge on either end.
No, this isn't some kind of SJW view, or somehow "being soft". It's more about logic and what exactly is NL doing, or not doing, in handling games clearly out of reach.
How does having to be there in person make any difference in one's opinion? Do I need to physically be there to know a game is over at half seeing a score of 73-4? If somehow being there equates to people can't share opinions, then we can discount iowalongs, cruhawk, maxstabs13 and or other supporting views as they were clearly not there either.
If a 105-8 game isn't considered a run-up of score, which apparently some are okay with, please fill us in at what point the score is considered being run-up? Does it need to be 150-8, 200-8? What is line of demarcation here?
2nd half, NL goes on to score 32 more in 16 minutes of play... at a minimum that is one basket a minute. How hard is it to pull the ball out from lay ups or rebounds and run more clock? Is there at least one sub during every break in action during a running clock to slow/pause the game a bit? A prior poster indicated they held the ball 4 minutes, so they apparently made up for that somewhere by scoring more than a basket a minute elsewhere in the 2nd half.
It's been mentioned they'll need to practice their offense and defense to get state ready. Walk me through how practicing their offense and defense against a team that has only scored 4 and allowed 73 in 16 minutes really improves any aspect of their O or D? It's pretty apparent that team isn't providing any sort of challenge on either end.
No, this isn't some kind of SJW view, or somehow "being soft". It's more about logic and what exactly is NL doing, or not doing, in handling games clearly out of reach.
How does having to be there in person make any difference in one's opinion? Do I need to physically be there to know a game is over at half seeing a score of 73-4? If somehow being there equates to people can't share opinions, then we can discount iowalongs, cruhawk, maxstabs13 and or other supporting views as they were clearly not there either.
If a 105-8 game isn't considered a run-up of score, which apparently some are okay with, please fill us in at what point the score is considered being run-up? Does it need to be 150-8, 200-8? What is line of demarcation here?
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