Realignment Classifications

[RoundMound1]

Sounds like he’d like every team to play to the lowest common denominator so it’s ‘fair’.
Old equipment and poor coaching for everyone.

I never said anything about coaching. I’m talking about the use of expensive equipment that gives teams an obvious advantage in a GAME. And don’t try to play it off like it’s not an advantage. If it wasn’t an advantage then why would teams shell out $1,500-$3,000 each year plus the up front cost to use it?

I don’t have a problem with better playing equipment (helmets, pads, balls) and I couldn’t care less what you have at your school for practice, but the idea that one team can have an advantage over another team in a GAME simply because they can afford the technology doesn’t seem right. In fact, name one other sport that allows one team or player the use of an expensive technology to gain an advantage during competition?

 

[Pinehawk]

Baseball and baseball bats.
Every sport and the footwear used.
Every sport and video and stat capabilities.

Some people are so desperate to make everything completely even or ‘fair’. It will never, ever happen. That is not how life works.
There are a set of rules that everyone plays by. But, people will always find ways to optimize their opportunity for success.

 

[MepoDawg#]

I never said anything about coaching. I’m talking about the use of expensive equipment that gives teams an obvious advantage in a GAME. And don’t try to play it off like it’s not an advantage. If it wasn’t an advantage then why would teams shell out $1,500-$3,000 each year plus the up front cost to use it?

I don’t have a problem with better playing equipment (helmets, pads, balls) and I couldn’t care less what you have at your school for practice, but the idea that one team can have an advantage over another team in a GAME simply because they can afford the technology doesn’t seem right. In fact, name one other sport that allows one team or player the use of an expensive technology to gain an advantage during competition?

Gather donations.

 

[Pinehawk]

Ask question, get answer, disappear...

 

[rkhemp]

Ask question, get answer, disappear...

If you're talking to me, I did not disappear. I do not live on here though. Just now taking a peak on my lunch break.

And comparing in game technology advantages to going against fast kids, now that is one of the biggest straw man arguments I have seen on here. As Falcon Fan would put it, that is a dumb argument

 

[rkhemp]

So we should put a limit on resources so it’s fair and equal?

Limiting technology resources is not new to sports. I am not saying I am for it, I am just saying Round Mound's argument is not dumb. You can be on one side or the other.

 

[Pinehawk]

If you're talking to me, I did not disappear. I do not live on here though. Just now taking a peak on my lunch break.

And comparing in game technology advantages to going against fast kids, now that is one of the biggest straw man arguments I have seen on here. As Falcon Fan would put it, that is a dumb argument

I wasn't talking to you.

 

[falconfanx3]

If you're talking to me, I did not disappear. I do not live on here though. Just now taking a peak on my lunch break.

And comparing in game technology advantages to going against fast kids, now that is one of the biggest straw man arguments I have seen on here. As Falcon Fan would put it, that is a dumb argument

There is no such thing as dumb people, just dumb arguments

 

[RoundMound1]

I didn’t realize there was an obligation to check up every couple hours. My bad I’ll work on that. Maybe...

Balls, bats and footwear? The fact that those are the only examples you can think of proves my point (and btw I did say I don’t care about equipment). Those aren’t even close to the difference in cost or benefit. And video/stat capabilities aren’t helping in game.

It’s all good. I stated my opinion, it got shot down, and I’m clearly not changing anyone’s mind. Time to move on.

 

[falconfanx3]

Again - OE is not a free-for-all. Both schools MUST agree that the student can 1. Leave and 2. be accepted. Now where it is not an exception is when a student moves into a district, that school MUST take them (regardless of whether they are a good student or a POS). Does a private school HAVE to take a student? Can they say yes to student 1 who is a Straight A student and D1 recruit and no to student 2. who is a straight D student, has a police record and doesn't participate in activities in school?

What an obscure question. Also, to answer you attempt at an insult, a public school can also say no to a student who has a police record. by recommending him to a juvenile detention center or behavioral school dependent on the offense. Your attempt to grasp at straws surely backfired there.

 

[falconfanx3]

If student moves into the district they cannot. Said student is given first an attempt at the school, if said student continues with bad behavior they can then be recommended to an alternate school.

But nice that you failed to answer the question - as usual.

You actually couldn't be anymore wrong. If the kid moves into the district he does not have to be automatically accepted by the public school depending on his record/ type of offense. You said the public school must automatically accept him. That is not the case. So you don't even know the facts behind your own questions.

Also, in fact, if the kid can pay tuition. A majority of private schools would accept them without question.

Also. If given the choice like you assume private schools have. regardless of private or public. Any person in this thread if they were in position would choose the kid with straight A's over the kid with the record. Athletics would have no part in that other than being an added bonus.

That's like saying when you go to a steakhouse do you want this 24 oz new york strip or chicken fingers. Both cost the same.

 

[Pinehawk]

If student moves into the district they cannot. Said student is given first an attempt at the school, if said student continues with bad behavior they can then be recommended to an alternate school.

But nice that you failed to answer the question - as usual.

When I went to private school we used to get public school drop outs. The parents would send them to our school with the hopes that it would 'rehabilitate' them. Of course, it didn't work, they'd usually last a year or two and then disappear.

So, yeah, private schools do take everybody, even those with behavior problems. Private schools get used as a sort of 'last chance' for some of these kids.

 

[Reasoned]

After considering the whole scheduling/PO debacle in IA, decided to see what our similar sized neighbor KS does. In their largest class 6A, they have 32 teams play 8 regular season games and the 9th game is the first round of the PO’s (so everyone’s in). The PO brackets are either East/West (16 in each) or 4 quadrants with 8 teams in each (in some of the smaller classes), with the seeding determined by regular season records (not sure if they use conferences/districts or an RPI etc., didn’t put that much time reviewing this ). Point is, sometimes there’s a lot to be said for keeping things simple, everyone’s in the PO’s, all play at least 9 games, the only thing to work out is seeding and regular season schedule, which can be done, solved!

 

[GOPANTHERS23]

After considering the whole scheduling/PO debacle in IA, decided to see what our similar sized neighbor KS does. In their largest class 6A, they have 32 teams play 8 regular season games and the 9th game is the first round of the PO’s (so everyone’s in). The PO brackets are either East/West (16 in each) or 4 quadrants with 8 teams in each (in some of the smaller classes), with the seeding determined by regular season records (not sure if they use conferences/districts or an RPI etc., didn’t put that much time reviewing this ). Point is, sometimes there’s a lot to be said for keeping things simple, everyone’s in the PO’s, all play at least 9 games, the only thing to work out is seeding and regular season schedule, which can be done, solved!

So good teams will no longer be recognized for their accomplishments since every team makes the playoffs. Great system NOT. Some schools to just make the playoffs and just hang up that banner of being a playoff participant means a lot but you want to eliminate that? I don’t think that system is the answer

 

[Reasoned]

So good teams will no longer be recognized for their accomplishments since every team makes the playoffs. Great system NOT. Some schools to just make the playoffs and just hang up that banner of being a playoff participant means a lot but you want to eliminate that? I don’t think that system is the answer

Not my preferred solution but look around you, this is what we’ve become...that train left the station years ago.

 

[falconfanx3]

Not my preferred solution but look around you, this is what we’ve become...that train left the station years ago.

zero people are on board your train.
You got the wrong ticket, mate

 

[rkhemp]

Would good teams not still be recognized when they made deep playoff runs?

Do all teams get banners to hang on their wall? I would not think so. My memory could have failed me, but I was thinking when Iowa was at 32 team playoffs you had to win the first round to receive a banner.

 

[falconfanx3]

Would good teams not still be recognized when they made deep playoff runs?

Do all teams get banners to hang on their wall? I would not think so. My memory could have failed me, but I was thinking when Iowa was at 32 team playoffs you had to win the first round to receive a banner.

If you were part of the 32 you received a playoff qualifier tolken from the state

 

[rkhemp]

I don’t know what a playoff qualifying tolken is, but I swore the last years of the 32 team playoff the winner of the first round game was rewarded with something the loser was not.

Anyways the deeper of the run the bigger achievement. Win state, make the dome, make the quarters, make the playoffs: all are different levels of achievement. Did the teams that won state/ made the dome when it was 32 feel their achievement was watered down?

 

[KidSilverhair]

I believe the first year of 32 playoff teams the state actually called the first round a “substate” round instead, and losers of that game didn’t receive an “official” playoff banner. By the second year they gave up on that, all 32 teams were recognized as playoff participants. The IHSAA may have even retroactively given banners to the teams from the year before, I’m not certain.

 

[Reasoned]

After further review of the KS format, the three larger classes (6A, 5A & 4A) all have 32 teams, divided into East/West districts with 16 teams in each district & 8 regular season games, (not sure how season scheduling is done) but since all teams play a 9th game (not called first round PO game) but you must win to advance to their “regional” or first round PO game, 16 make it (where they earn their “banner” I assume) then it’s on to quarter finals, semifinals and finals.
The 3A and below have 48 teams split into 8 districts of 6 teams, looks like they play 8 regular season games with the top 4 teams in each district (32 total) moving on to 9th game and so on. Not sure if the 16 teams who don’t make it play a 9th game or what. At any rate, this is the way KS does it and there’s some merit to the format.

 

[wolverine55]

I guess I didn't realize "earning a banner" was such a sore subject for some, lol!

 

[cidhawkeye]

Somewhere there is a school with a banner for a 1-8 season

 

[falconfanx3]

I don’t know what a playoff qualifying tolken is, but I swore the last years of the 32 team playoff the winner of the first round game was rewarded with something the loser was not.

Anyways the deeper of the run the bigger achievement. Win state, make the dome, make the quarters, make the playoffs: all are different levels of achievement. Did the teams that won state/ made the dome when it was 32 feel their achievement was watered down?

They got a medal, or a banner to hang as a playoff qualafier. But with 32 teams a 4 never beat a 1 seed, and you run the risk of injury that could possibly derail your season. Does a team thats 4-5 or 3-6 really deserve to lay a team that is 9-0?

 

[falconfanx3]

After further review of the KS format, the three larger classes (6A, 5A & 4A) all have 32 teams, divided into East/West districts with 16 teams in each district & 8 regular season games, (not sure how season scheduling is done) but since all teams play a 9th game (not called first round PO game) but you must win to advance to their “regional” or first round PO game, 16 make it (where they earn their “banner” I assume) then it’s on to quarter finals, semifinals and finals.
The 3A and below have 48 teams split into 8 districts of 6 teams, looks like they play 8 regular season games with the top 4 teams in each district (32 total) moving on to 9th game and so on. Not sure if the 16 teams who don’t make it play a 9th game or what. At any rate, this is the way KS does it and there’s some merit to the format.

Theres a reason kansas is a basketball state. That would make no sense for Iowa's format, geography, or class sizes

 

[KidSilverhair]

Somewhere there is a school with a banner for a 1-8 season

Mason City got one with a 2-7 season in 2013. By beating Hoover and Ottumwa, they were able to finish 4th in a 5-team district (even though they lost to the 5th-place team, Marshalltown, which was their only win). Four teams per district made the playoffs.

Southeast Polk beat Mason City 48-14.

 

[Reasoned]

Somewhere there is a school with a banner for a 1-8 season

There is, it’s the 2015 Davenport North Wildcats. They played Bett in the first round, the Bulldogs pulled their starters at the end of the first quarter, the final was 42-13. You’ll have to ask those kids if it was worthwhile.

 

[Reasoned]

They got a medal, or a banner to hang as a playoff qualafier. But with 32 teams a 4 never beat a 1 seed, and you run the risk of injury that could possibly derail your season. Does a team thats 4-5 or 3-6 really deserve to lay a team that is 9-0?

Look, I liked the way the IHSAA district and PO format was the last few years but apparently enough schools complained and we’ve ended up with the current debacle, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

 

[Pinehawk]

Look, I liked the way the IHSAA district and PO format was the last few years but apparently enough schools complained and we’ve ended up with the current debacle, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

It will always be broken for someone.

When they get loud enough, the system changes.
Then it breaks again for a new group of people and the cycle repeats.

 

[rkhemp]

Do all participants get a medal? I believe so,

Better yet, has a 3-4 or 4-5 team "earned" the right to play a 9-0 team?

I believe that not every playoff team received a medal/ banner the last years of the 32 team playoffs. And if so, simple fix.

Secondly, has a 7-2 or 6-3 team "earned" the right to play a 9-0 team? What about a 8-1 team?

If my numbers are correct in 2019 alone 23 6-win teams, 4 7-win teams, and 2 8-win teams throughout the state were left out of the playoffs. It would be crazy to give those teams a chip and a seat.

 

[GOPANTHERS23]

I believe that not every playoff team received a medal/ banner the last years of the 32 team playoffs. And if so, simple fix.

Secondly, has a 7-2 or 6-3 team "earned" the right to play a 9-0 team? What about a 8-1 team?

If my numbers are correct in 2019 alone 23 6-win teams, 4 7-win teams, and 2 8-win teams throughout the state were left out of the playoffs. It would be crazy to give those teams a chip and a seat.

Your numbers are mis leading here. One 8 Win team and one 7 Win team outside of 8 man. 8 man has so many teams that is bound to happen.

 

[rkhemp]

Not misleading at all. Those are the numbers. But sure take away 8 man.

4 6-win teams made it to the quarters last year and one made it to the dome. That is last year alone. But let's not allow 6 win teams a seat. It may heaven forbid allow a 5-4 team to sneak in! Oh wait, some already snuck in. Hopefully they didn't get a banner.

 

[rkhemp]

So you want to give a 1-7, 2-6, 3-4, 4-5 team the same "earned" game as a 6, 7, or 8 win team... makes sense.

No I don't. But thanks for playing. With the boredom from quarantine it is nice for people to make stuff up. Livens up the party.

 

[RoundMound1]

Why is it that every time the discussion for number of playoff teams comes up there are a certain group of people that can’t get over the fact that an undeserving team or two might get in?

You do realize that when 32 teams made the playoffs there were many more 3 and 4 seeds that won games than there were teams with losing records right?

And the 1-7, 2-8 teams that made it were in 4A and everybody agrees 32 team playoffs for 4A is different.

 

[Kevin7216]

What if they go to 32 teams make postseason maybe they only play 8 game regular season or 9 either way... but then play quarterfinal games in dome as well and only those 8 teams in each class are considered state qualifiers like girls and boys basketball softball baseball and volleyball do!

 

[Bob321]

So you want to give a 1-7, 2-6, 3-4, 4-5 team the same "earned" game as a 6, 7, or 8 win team... makes sense.

Life isn't fair & no system is perfect.
With 16 teams, 8-1 & 7-2 teams get left out of the playoffs.

You have to decide which way to fail. Is it better that "undeserving" teams have to play better teams in a first round playoff (as happens during the entirety of the regular season) or if "deserving" teams get left out of the post-season?

 

[rkhemp]

I have believed for years that 4A football playoff structure should not be the same as the lower classifications. For example it is an achievement for many lower schools to make it to Substate in other sports, while 3A and 4A schools begin their postseason at Substate.

The entire point of having different classifications is for competitive balance. Hopefully the state finally realizes there are other factors in considering how a school should be classified than just by the number of boys + girls who attend the school.

If they get it right, then 4A can be a super class of 32 teams based on multiple factors. Maybe even smaller number of schools than 32. Each team enters postseason.

For all other classes the top 32 make the postseason. Keep the banners for quarters/ semis/ championship whatever. I really don't care about banners.

But choose a better way to classify the schools. The easy and lazy way to do it is to count up the number of boys and girls. We're currently including girls numbers equal to boys when the participation of girls at most schools is 0%? That is the best factor we can find? MMCRU (I have no idea what that stands for, just using as example) should be classified as having the same competitive advantage as Iowa City Regina based on this? Seriously?

 

[falconfanx3]

I have believed for years that 4A football playoff structure should not be the same as the lower classifications. For example it is an achievement for many lower schools to make it to Substate in other sports, while 3A and 4A schools begin their postseason at Substate.

The entire point of having different classifications is for competitive balance. Hopefully the state finally realizes there are other factors in considering how a school should be classified than just by the number of boys + girls who attend the school.

If they get it right, then 4A can be a super class of 32 teams based on multiple factors. Maybe even smaller number of schools than 32. Each team enters postseason.

For all other classes the top 32 make the postseason. Keep the banners for quarters/ semis/ championship whatever. I really don't care about banners.

But choose a better way to classify the schools. The easy and lazy way to do it is to count up the number of boys and girls. We're currently including girls numbers equal to boys when the participation of girls at most schools is 0%? That is the best factor we can find? MMCRU (I have no idea what that stands for, just using as example) should be classified as having the same competitive advantage as Iowa City Regina based on this? Seriously?

You're just looking for a way to attempt to prove that private schools should have a multiplier.

Classifying them by students is not a lazy factor. Every state in america nearly uses that. (similar students = similar class size. It's that simple)

 

[Pinehawk]

Of course the state knows there are many factors that go into a teams success. Rkhemp wants them to break the current system to chase a number of factors (free lunch rates, program stability, proximity to a large city, percent open enrollment, among other things).
But, once they start chasing various factors, they will create unintended consequences. Just like they are dealing with right now with the RPI and the difficulty attempting to schedule teams that figured out the system.
Dividing the classes based on population is the simple, clean way, which the entire state is used to and familiar with.
If they start tinkering around with other factors, we will end up with a worse situation.

 

[rkhemp]

It's coming boys. Embrace yourselves. The situation is about to get better.