Mount Pleasant #1 in 3A ???

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

Since the year 2000, there have been 16 Class 3A boys' basketball championships. 9 of those have went to private schools. So 3-4 private schools vs. 60 public schools and the privates win over half. When were these years where the private schools weren't dominating? I can't find them anywhere in the IAHSAA history.

Obviously, kids from small Iowa towns aren't going to be able to consistently compete with these All-Star teams from the bigger cities, so again, I will pick the privates to win over and over again and most of the time I'll be right. Hopefully this is one of those rare years where one of the 60 public schools can come out on top.

 

[cidhawkeye]

Since the year 2000, there have been 16 Class 3A boys' basketball championships. 9 of those have went to private schools. So 3-4 private schools vs. 60 public schools and the privates win over half. When were these years where the private schools weren't dominating? I can't find them anywhere in the IAHSAA history.

Obviously, kids from small Iowa towns aren't going to be able to consistently compete with these All-Star teams from the bigger cities, so again, I will pick the privates to win over and over again and most of the time I'll be right. Hopefully this is one of those rare years where one of the 60 public schools can come out on top.

What was the record from 1993 through 2006? 1993 being the year they added 4A. You're bitter we get it, keep going. I like how you chose to expand from just Wahlert and Xavier to help with your narrative. What actions have you taken with the state to rectify this travesty?

 

[iowalongs230]

Just for information's sake...

In the 33 seasons since 1985 when the state went to 4 classes, here are the % of state championships won by private schools in each class through 2017, along with runners up and combined champions and runners up. (Classes were originally A, 1A, 2A, 3A before moving to current classification system in 1993).

1A

• Champs 6% (2)
• Runners up 27% (9)
• Combined 17%

2A

• Champs 36% (12)
• Runners up 45% (15)
• Combined 41%

3A

• Champs 52% (17)
• Runners up 27% (9)
• Combined 39%

4A

• Champs 3% (only once--Carroll Kuemper in 1985)
• Runners up 0% (never)
• Combined 2%

TOTAL

• Champs 24% (32)
• Runners up 25% (33)
• Combined 25%

 

[bravos]

"All star teams", "scholarships", "bringing guys in" LOL!!! You are living in a dream world if you think that is how it works at the private schools. Yeah, parents are just dying to write the tuition checks when they can go to public schools for free down the street. The public shools are the ones doing this because its easy and FREE.

The last all star team I recall being put together was at City High when the Derbys and Malcolm Moore joined forces with Gatens to win a state title. I heard people at City High didnt even feel much pride when they won that title because Gatens and Eric Washpun were the only homegrown kids that actually played on that team.

The state actually suspended Dion Prewster, an international kid, recruited to play at City. Check out this article.

https://www.pressreader.com/new-zealand/the-dominion-post/20071103/282896611265850

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

Just for information's sake...

In the 33 seasons since 1985 when the state went to 4 classes, here are the % of state championships won by private schools in each class through 2017, along with runners up and combined champions and runners up. (Classes were originally A, 1A, 2A, 3A before moving to current classification system in 1993).

1A

• Champs 6% (2)
• Runners up 27% (9)
• Combined 17%

2A

• Champs 36% (12)
• Runners up 45% (15)
• Combined 41%

3A

• Champs 52% (17)
• Runners up 27% (9)
• Combined 39%

4A

• Champs 3% (only once--Carroll Kuemper in 1985)
• Runners up 0% (never)
• Combined 2%

TOTAL

• Champs 24% (32)
• Runners up 25% (33)
• Combined 25%

I wouldn't really count Class 4A in this because you're no longer pitting these big city schools against small town Iowa, but these numbers are pretty crazy, especially in 3A. To think people can be so delusional that they can see 4 big city private schools win over half of the titles when there are 60 public schools in the class and not think there is a competitive disadvantage.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

What was the record from 1993 through 2006? 1993 being the year they added 4A. You're bitter we get it, keep going. I like how you chose to expand from just Wahlert and Xavier to help with your narrative. What actions have you taken with the state to rectify this travesty?

I've complained on the internets

 

[cidhawkeye]

"All star teams", "scholarships", "bringing guys in" LOL!!! You are living in a dream world if you think that is how it works at the private schools. Yeah, parents are just dying to write the tuition checks when they can go to public schools for free down the street. The public shools are the ones doing this because its easy and FREE.

The last all star team I recall being put together was at City High when the Derbys and Malcolm Moore joined forces with Gatens to win a state title. I heard people at City High didnt even feel much pride when they won that title because Gatens and Eric Washpun were the only homegrown kids that actually played on that team.

The state actually suspended Dion Prewster, an international kid, recruited to play at City. Check out this article.

https://www.pressreader.com/new-zealand/the-dominion-post/20071103/282896611265850

It isn't actually 'free' for the public schools. They get paid to accept those students.

 

[cidhawkeye]

I wouldn't really count Class 4A in this because you're no longer pitting these big city schools against small town Iowa, but these numbers are pretty crazy, especially in 3A. To think people can be so delusional that they can see 4 big city private schools win over half of the titles when there are 60 public schools in the class and not think there is a competitive disadvantage.

So Dowling can put together an 'All Star' team in football but not in basketball. Got it. I like how it is now all private schools after the Wahlert-Xavier facts that were trotted out were shown to be inaccurate. If you are hoping to impact change I would hope you have contacted the local high school coach and AD to get them to lobby the Boone nozzles in charge. Good luck in getting them to do anything unless they can $ee the advantage$ to making a $witch.

 

[zonkeyjerky]

I don't think anyone ever gripes when private schools get foreign exchange students (Can private schools even get exchange students?). We gripe when private schools create super teams in the lower classes by using 4A talent. I'm sure the MP coach isn't making trips to Australia to recruit high school basketball players.

MP actually has a pretty decent schedule this year and has only lost to 4A teams and Xavier, so I don't know how it's a surprise they would be at least top two.

Xavier is definitely the favorite again as I've said before on here private schools are always the favorites because they'll always have an influx of big city kids when they have a hole. I still think Xavier/Wahlert/Assumption/Heelan will win probably 90% of the state titles in 3A boys' basketball until someone finally explains multipliers to the IAHSAA heads. This may be the one year where a public school sneaks in with MP, Oskaloosa and Norwalk all looking really good.

It will be interesting to see how Oskaloosa fairs because I think 3A is super strong on guards and a little weak on posts and Oskaloosa is totally the opposite of that. It would be really cool to get to see those kids play in Des Moines, but Osky didn't get a great draw (compared to MP and Xavier) on districts. They'll have a couple of tough outs.

Not sure if you

I don't think anyone ever gripes when private schools get foreign exchange students (Can private schools even get exchange students?). We gripe when private schools create super teams in the lower classes by using 4A talent. I'm sure the MP coach isn't making trips to Australia to recruit high school basketball players.

MP actually has a pretty decent schedule this year and has only lost to 4A teams and Xavier, so I don't know how it's a surprise they would be at least top two.

Xavier is definitely the favorite again as I've said before on here private schools are always the favorites because they'll always have an influx of big city kids when they have a hole. I still think Xavier/Wahlert/Assumption/Heelan will win probably 90% of the state titles in 3A boys' basketball until someone finally explains multipliers to the IAHSAA heads. This may be the one year where a public school sneaks in with MP, Oskaloosa and Norwalk all looking really good.

It will be interesting to see how Oskaloosa fairs because I think 3A is super strong on guards and a little weak on posts and Oskaloosa is totally the opposite of that. It would be really cool to get to see those kids play in Des Moines, but Osky didn't get a great draw (compared to MP and Xavier) on districts. They'll have a couple of tough outs.

Funny no one says anything about public school transfers/recruits. SBL would be looking at a three win season if they hadn’t recruited two players from Christian school this year.

I think it can be hypocritical to only point fingers at Private Schools only. I see many kids transfer to Public schools for Athletic purposes. This happens especially in more rural areas where Private schools may be scarce. Kids many times will go where they can win. Public schools want a multiplier for Private. What is the multiplier when Public kids transfer? Because it happens more than many think!
I wish there was a study done on Private school basketball transfers after their sophomore year. How many kids are doing this? Not just 1-3 examples. What rate is this happening compared to Public?

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

So Dowling can put together an 'All Star' team in football but not in basketball. Got it. I like how it is now all private schools after the Wahlert-Xavier facts that were trotted out were shown to be inaccurate. If you are hoping to impact change I would hope you have contacted the local high school coach and AD to get them to lobby the Boone nozzles in charge. Good luck in getting them to do anything unless they can $ee the advantage$ to making a $witch.

Ha! Yeah, I agree with you there, no chance they make the switch unless they can figure out a way to turn a profit. I do hope it changes, but I was more making a prediction, which I will stick by. Private schools will continue to dominate (I consider 4 teams taking up half the state championships over the other 60 dominating) Class 3A in boys' basketball. This year where MP is hitting their high point and Oskaloosa has some freak athletes is more of a blip than anything.


My whole thing about 4A private schools is this: They are still a big city school playing against big city schools. Fielding players from Cedar Rapids gives you a huge advantage over teams based in the smaller 3A schools. Fielding players from Cedar Rapids doesn't give you a huge advantage when you're playing a big 4A school who takes from Des Moines. I have never argued about private schools in the highest class. I think where the advantage lies is the smaller classes, and that's why they are so overwhelmingly successful.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

Not sure if you


I think it can be hypocritical to only point fingers at Private Schools only. I see many kids transfer to Public schools for Athletic purposes. This happens especially in more rural areas where Private schools may be scarce. Kids many times will go where they can win. Public schools want a multiplier for Private. What is the multiplier when Public kids transfer? Because it happens more than many think!
I wish there was a study done on Private school basketball transfers after their sophomore year. How many kids are doing this? Not just 1-3 examples. What rate is this happening compared to Public?

Totally agree, I see it happening every once in a while in public schools as well, and I'm sure there is some recruiting there as well. My original point that triggered everyone is that Mount Pleasant having one Australian player come over for one year is not the same thing as a school constantly getting players out of the Cedar Rapids/Iowa City/Dubuque/Sioux City school systems.

I think a good number of private school transfers (that I have witnessed) happen from the 8th grade year to freshman year, right when they can start competing in high school sports. Obviously private schools have to pull kids in to survive. Obviously not every kid is a star athlete. But can people really not see that it is happening at an alarming rate? 4 private schools vs. 60 public schools in 3A and private schools have won the majority of championships. Those 4 are all from big cities. They essentially are 4A schools. That's why they do so well, and that's why (I'll say it again), I think they are going to continue to win. I can't believe I'm getting chastised for predicting something so obvious.

 

[Hawki45]

Maybe I’m not seeing something here but what is the difference between 500 kids from a big city (CR, Dav, DBQ, Sioux City) and 500 kids from a rural community? If the 4 schools you list were the top 4 enrollment wise in 3A then maybe there would be an issue, but they are not. So what is the difference in kids from a big city or a smaller city?

 

[iowalongs230]

Just keep in mind what happened in Illinois state football when they added a multiplier. Before the multiplier, some of the largest private schools would consistently duke it out in 5A while public schools generally won 6A. But when they added a multiplier then at least one large private school bumped up to 6A so private schools started winning both 5A and 6A.

In other words, there's always the possibility that bumping a 3A private school up to 4A means more, not fewer, private school championships. Now you could argue that that wouldn't happen in Iowa basketball with the current situation because those 3A private schools aren't big enough to compete with most 4A schools, but you have to beware of the law of unintended consequences.

 

[Bulldog198240]

Maybe I’m not seeing something here but what is the difference between 500 kids from a big city (CR, Dav, DBQ, Sioux City) and 500 kids from a rural community? If the 4 schools you list were the top 4 enrollment wise in 3A then maybe there would be an issue, but they are not. So what is the difference in kids from a big city or a smaller city?

Then you have no idea what goes on in youth sports if you can’t see a difference...let me put it in terms you may understand .if I need to find an IT guy I have a better chance of finding the one in Cedar Rapids than I do in Washington iowa...It’s called demographics and the law of averages ....bigger population better chance of finding 5 whereas in smaller communities you may only find 1 or 2

 

[Hawki45]

Then you have no idea what goes on in youth sports if you can’t see a difference...let me put it in terms you may understand .if I need to find an IT guy I have a better chance of finding the one in Cedar Rapids than I do in Washington iowa...It’s called demographics and the law of averages ....bigger population better chance of finding 5 whereas in smaller communities you may only find 1 or 2

Well goodness, only 1 or 2 guys can play? How do the public schools even compete? Could it be, do public schools have to bring in kids to compete? I bet if you go back and look at every 3A champion, over half would have an impact transfer or kid move from 8th grade to play with their friends.....it’s very rare that any school at any level has a championship without a little help from somewhere else.

Bottom line, when we adults sit here and argue about this, all it really does is try to take away all the hard work and time the kids put in. It is so hard to win a state championship in any sport at any level, and the fact that people can just say “well they only won because of this” shows that they have no knowledge of how hard it really is. This will be all I have to say from here on out. Hope everyone has a great day and all your favorite teams win State.

 

[Fatwall]

Totally agree, I see it happening every once in a while in public schools as well, and I'm sure there is some recruiting there as well. My original point that triggered everyone is that Mount Pleasant having one Australian player come over for one year is not the same thing as a school constantly getting players out of the Cedar Rapids/Iowa City/Dubuque/Sioux City school systems.

I think a good number of private school transfers (that I have witnessed) happen from the 8th grade year to freshman year, right when they can start competing in high school sports. Obviously private schools have to pull kids in to survive. Obviously not every kid is a star athlete. But can people really not see that it is happening at an alarming rate? 4 private schools vs. 60 public schools in 3A and private schools have won the majority of championships. Those 4 are all from big cities. They essentially are 4A schools. That's why they do so well, and that's why (I'll say it again), I think they are going to continue to win. I can't believe I'm getting chastised for predicting something so obvious.

When a student leaves 8th grade and enrolls in high school that student is not a transfer. If that were the case then every school admitting any freshman student would have to consider them a transfer. If a student enrolls in one high school and then enrolls in another then that is a transfer. But you can't state transfers happen between 8th and 9th grade, from middle school to high school because that is not transferring.
I am not denying some students enroll or transfer to private schools for athletics, if it is a solid program then why wouldn't you want to play for a winning team? The Australian going to MP last year...that has to be some recruiting, I highly doubt Mount Pleasant would be high on the list of foreign exchange students. Nothing against MP, but if I were a foreign exchange student I would want to pick a highly populated area to gain more experiences while in the states...unless the foreign exchange student is 6'8 and can help a team who is lacking in size...kinda funny how that all worked out. Point is-it happens everywhere, public or private and we need to accept it, and we also need to understand the difference between a transfer and a freshman enrolling in high school.

 

[Bulldog198240]

Well goodness, only 1 or 2 guys can play? How do the public schools even compete? Could it be, do public schools have to bring in kids to compete? I bet if you go back and look at every 3A champion, over half would have an impact transfer or kid move from 8th grade to play with their friends.....and it’s not just the privates.

Bottom line, when we adults sit here and argue about this, all it really does is try to take away all the hard work and time the kids put in. It is so hard to win a state championship in any sport at any level, and the fact that people can just say “well they only won because of this” shows that they have no knowledge of how hard it really is. This will be all I have to say from here on out. Hope everyone has a great day and all your favorite teams win State.

Not taking anything away from any kids....study the law of demographics and then get back to me ....oh yeah when you need that top notch IT guy only advertise in the small rural communities ....hahaha

 

[Fatwall]

Well goodness, only 1 or 2 guys can play? How do the public schools even compete? Could it be, do public schools have to bring in kids to compete? I bet if you go back and look at every 3A champion, over half would have an impact transfer or kid move from 8th grade to play with their friends.....and it’s not just the privates.

Bottom line, when we adults sit here and argue about this, all it really does is try to take away all the hard work and time the kids put in. It is so hard to win a state championship in any sport at any level, and the fact that people can just say “well they only won because of this” shows that they have no knowledge of how hard it really is. This will be all I have to say from here on out. Hope everyone has a great day and all your favorite teams win State.

Preach Hawki45!

 

[Bulldog198240]

When a student leaves 8th grade and enrolls in high school that student is not a transfer. If that were the case then every school admitting any freshman student would have to consider them a transfer. If a student enrolls in one high school and then enrolls in another then that is a transfer. But you can't state transfers happen between 8th and 9th grade, from middle school to high school because that is not transferring.
I am not denying some students enroll or transfer to private schools for athletics, if it is a solid program then why wouldn't you want to play for a winning team? The Australian going to MP last year...that has to be some recruiting, I highly doubt Mount Pleasant would be high on the list of foreign exchange students. Nothing against MP, but if I were a foreign exchange student I would want to pick a highly populated area to gain more experiences while in the states...unless the foreign exchange student is 6'8 and can help a team who is lacking in size...kinda funny how that all worked out. Point is-it happens everywhere, public or private and we need to accept it, and we also need to understand the difference between a transfer and a freshman enrolling in high school.

There is more to the story on the Australian...his family had friends in MP and yes he came to the US to try to get a college scholarship

 

[Hawki45]

Not taking anything away from any kids....study the law of demographics and then get back to me ....oh yeah when you need that top notch IT guy only advertise in the small rural communities ....hahaha

I mean, I got hired for my job from a small town so I think anyone could do it.....dang it Bulldog, you got me back in.....That’s all for real this time....Goodnight everybody!!

 

[Bulldog198240]

I mean, I got hired for my job from a small town so I think anyone could do it.....dang it Bulldog, you got me back in.....That’s all for real this time....Goodnight everybody!!

Hahahah ....it’s all in good banter!...

 

[Fatwall]

There is more to the story on the Australian...his family had friends in MP and yes he came to the US to try to get a college scholarship

I am sure there is and that is totally cool, didn't mean to offend and hope it worked out for him, but we must keep in mind there is probably more to the story on every transfer or newly enrolled student that we don't know about and we automatically make assumptions about it. I have been guilty of this as well.

 

[Busdriver17]

There is more to the story on the Australian...his family had friends in MP and yes he came to the US to try to get a college scholarship

Just like there is more to the story with every transfer or foreign exchange student. Public vs Private - it happens everywhere! But of course, you public school honks are only concerned with the Private school "recruits" rrrrr I mean transfers or foreign exchange students

 

[cidhawkeye]

Maybe someone can share with us where multipliers have been successful

 

[Bulldog198240]

 

[sarcastico]

You have to give NeverRead credit, he is a master level troll. Shows up at the start of the postseason every year and gets people all riled up using the same old arguments over and over again. You can go back and find almost identical threads to this the last couple years. It really is becoming an annual tradition around here.

 

[cidhawkeye]

You have to give NeverRead credit, he is a master level troll. Shows up at the start of the postseason every year and gets people all riled up using the same old arguments over and over again. You can go back and find almost identical threads to this the last couple years. It really is becoming an annual tradition around here.

So it's kind of like Christmas.... oooops can't use Christmas since he is a public school supporter, so it's like a non denominational winter break that comes after 3 days of winter annual break?

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

You have to give NeverRead credit, he is a master level troll. Shows up at the start of the postseason every year and gets people all riled up using the same old arguments over and over again. You can go back and find almost identical threads to this the last couple years. It really is becoming an annual tradition around here.

Actually I didn't even bring it up, if you roll back and read the conversation. I was replying to someone whining about Mount Pleasant getting a kid from Australia, and comparing it to what the private schools do.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

Maybe I’m not seeing something here but what is the difference between 500 kids from a big city (CR, Dav, DBQ, Sioux City) and 500 kids from a rural community? If the 4 schools you list were the top 4 enrollment wise in 3A then maybe there would be an issue, but they are not. So what is the difference in kids from a big city or a smaller city?

Are you comparing 500 kids from Cedar Rapids who were accepted into a private school to 500 kids who were placed in the public school system? You can't see that the big city private schools basically have the entire city to pluck from? I'm not saying every public school kid in C.R. would go to Xavier if they got a good enough scholarship, but if they want to play at the state basketball tournament there is plenty of extra incentive. That's what the difference is.


Since you guys all seem to disagree with me, could someone explain to me why these 4 private schools have fared better than the 60 public schools in the class?

 

[cidhawkeye]

Are you comparing 500 kids from Cedar Rapids who were accepted into a private school to 500 kids who were placed in the public school system? You can't see that the big city private schools basically have the entire city to pluck from? I'm not saying every public school kid in C.R. would go to Xavier if they got a good enough scholarship, but if they want to play at the state basketball tournament there is plenty of extra incentive. That's what the difference is.


Since you guys all seem to disagree with me, could someone explain to me why these 4 private schools have fared better than the 60 public schools in the class?

They win more?

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

They win more?

They win more, yes. And why do private schools win so much more than public schools? Since having a pool of kids from a much bigger city apparently plays no effect?

 

[cruhawk]

Maybe I’m not seeing something here but what is the difference between 500 kids from a big city (CR, Dav, DBQ, Sioux City) and 500 kids from a rural community? If the 4 schools you list were the top 4 enrollment wise in 3A then maybe there would be an issue, but they are not. So what is the difference in kids from a big city or a smaller city?

The 500 kids at a private school from a major metropolitan area are 500 kids picked from a pool of (perhaps) tens of thousands of teenagers. The 500 kids from a small town/city are likely every teenager in that area. There is almost always a significant difference in talent.

 

[cruhawk]

Are you comparing 500 kids from Cedar Rapids who were accepted into a private school to 500 kids who were placed in the public school system? You can't see that the big city private schools basically have the entire city to pluck from? I'm not saying every public school kid in C.R. would go to Xavier if they got a good enough scholarship, but if they want to play at the state basketball tournament there is plenty of extra incentive. That's what the difference is.


Since you guys all seem to disagree with me, could someone explain to me why these 4 private schools have fared better than the 60 public schools in the class?

They're just better.

 

[Busdriver17]

Are you comparing 500 kids from Cedar Rapids who were accepted into a private school to 500 kids who were placed in the public school system? You can't see that the big city private schools basically have the entire city to pluck from? I'm not saying every public school kid in C.R. would go to Xavier if they got a good enough scholarship, but if they want to play at the state basketball tournament there is plenty of extra incentive. That's what the difference is.


Since you guys all seem to disagree with me, could someone explain to me why these 4 private schools have fared better than the 60 public schools in the class?

They give scholarships to go to catholic schools? Maybe I missed something here then. My kids go to public schools but as a kid that went through the catholic school system I would have loved to have my kids get a catholic education but it is too expensive. Kids don't get free rides at these schools! Know your facts before you spout off a bunch of crap to try and make your point look better.

Coaching makes a difference - take a look at what Luehrsmann has done at Xavier and English at Wahlert since taking over the jobs but you don't see it that way. The catholic schools are just good because it's a big city to pull from - get a clue. Coaching Matters

 

[cidhawkeye]

They give scholarships to go to catholic schools? Maybe I missed something here then. My kids go to public schools but as a kid that went through the catholic school system I would have loved to have my kids get a catholic education but it is too expensive. Kids don't get free rides at these schools! Know your facts before you spout off a bunch of crap to try and make your point look better.

Coaching makes a difference - take a look at what Luehrsmann has done at Xavier and English at Wahlert since taking over the jobs but you don't see it that way. The catholic schools are just good because it's a big city to pull from - get a clue. Coaching Matters

Look at what has been done at Harlan, WSR or is that different? People make it sound like all a private school has to do is call and people show up. Maybe it's time to look at public schools and see where they can improve.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

The 500 kids at a private school from a major metropolitan area are 500 kids picked from a pool of (perhaps) tens of thousands of teenagers. The 500 kids from a small town/city are likely every teenager in that area. There is almost always a significant difference in talent.

Bingo. Thank you. I don't get why this is so hard to understand. I think the only reason private school shills argue is because they've either had success themselves or their kids have had success at some big city private school beating up on the small towns, and they don't want it to be tainted in any way.

And yes, coaching matters, but not nearly as much as having a crap ton more kids to choose from.

For the record I think private schools are better education wise than public schools. But you have to be blind to not see their huge advantage in athletics. And that's why I said the four major private schools will continue to dominate in the future, even if someone upsets Xavier this year.

 

[cidhawkeye]

Bingo. Thank you. I don't get why this is so hard to understand. I think the only reason private school shills argue is because they've either had success themselves or their kids have had success at some big city private school beating up on the small towns, and they don't want it to be tainted in any way.

And yes, coaching matters, but not nearly as much as having a crap ton more kids to choose from.

For the record I think private schools are better education wise than public schools. But you have to be blind to not see their huge advantage in athletics. And that's why I said the four major private schools will continue to dominate in the future, even if someone upsets Xavier this year.

Do you really think it works that way? I can hear the sales pitch now. 'Have I got a deal for you, you can come to a smaller school, with less academic offerings, play smaller class competition, have that used against your kid if he wants to go to college to play sports and all you have to do is write checks for that honor, the facilities generally aren't as good and if we do upgrade be prepared to be pressured to write a check for it, we know that's on top of the bond issue for the public schools you are paying for. Who wants a free education and a bigger stage since your kid is a stud athlete, pay the extra thousands and come to the private school' I can't believe that with a pitch like that the schools aren't having to build on... oh that's right, that will lead to the 'keeping kids out to keep the BED count where we need it speech' Maybe Fran and Kirk should hire these private coaches, building dynasties and getting people to pay for the privilege to do so. Keep beating that drum.

 

[La_Fleur]

Bingo. Thank you. I don't get why this is so hard to understand. I think the only reason private school shills argue is because they've either had success themselves or their kids have had success at some big city private school beating up on the small towns, and they don't want it to be tainted in any way.

And yes, coaching matters, but not nearly as much as having a crap ton more kids to choose from.

For the record I think private schools are better education wise than public schools. But you have to be blind to not see their huge advantage in athletics. And that's why I said the four major private schools will continue to dominate in the future, even if someone upsets Xavier this year.

I mean, you could make the same point that the only reason others argue on the other side is because they or their kids went to a public school and lost to a private school, and they're just look for an excuse why it happened as opposed to admitting defeat.

I'm not saying I agree with that, but to use that as your rationale doesn't seem logical to me.

 

[ustabe]

Do you really think it works that way? I can hear the sales pitch now. 'Have I got a deal for you, you can come to a smaller school, with less academic offerings, play smaller class competition, have that used against your kid if he wants to go to college to play sports and all you have to do is write checks for that honor, the facilities generally aren't as good and if we do upgrade be prepared to be pressured to write a check for it, we know that's on top of the bond issue for the public schools you are paying for. Who wants a free education and a bigger stage since your kid is a stud athlete, pay the extra thousands and come to the private school' I can't believe that with a pitch like that the schools aren't having to build on... oh that's right, that will lead to the 'keeping kids out to keep the BED count where we need it speech' Maybe Fran and Kirk should hire these private coaches, building dynasties and getting people to pay for the privilege to do so. Keep beating that drum.

LOL Never ever heard of a private school keeping their bed count down, (maybe it has happened on 8man vs 11man) - they need the funds to operate! Out of all of the arguments - bordering on ridiculous if you have ever been part of a private school. Oh well, with all that being said - going back to the thread, I'm picking Mt. P to win it all this year.

 

[cruhawk]

Bingo. Thank you. I don't get why this is so hard to understand. I think the only reason private school shills argue is because they've either had success themselves or their kids have had success at some big city private school beating up on the small towns, and they don't want it to be tainted in any way.

And yes, coaching matters, but not nearly as much as having a crap ton more kids to choose from.

For the record I think private schools are better education wise than public schools. But you have to be blind to not see their huge advantage in athletics. And that's why I said the four major private schools will continue to dominate in the future, even if someone upsets Xavier this year.

I am one of those private school "shills", but no reasonable person can deny that 3A/4A schools from large metro areas have a significant, inherent competitive advantage over similar sized schools from smaller towns/cities. I've said that for over 10 years, as Heelan started playing 3A football. Every 3A person with an opinion and a computer was saying that Heelan "was in for a big surprise", and should prepare for a "comeuppance". Of course, it turned out to be a the other way around. I'm one of the silent majority of Heelan alums & parents who opposed the move to 3A.