interesting stat
- Thread starter LBdomination12
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So when the polar bears make it to state, then that says something about the kids that didn't leave...because they are not getting kids from the U.
Athletics may not be the top reason for open enrolling by it would be in the top ten if not the top five...when open enrolling do you have to give a reason? and if someone has to give a reason, who would actually say athletics....?
also, when a kid changes to a private school, they call it recruiting, but when a player switches public schools it is called open enrollment....and in open enrollment, the current school does not have to let the player/student leave...
Is it recruitment if no discounted tuition is given?
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I think you have to factor in the Coach into this discussion. DM North and WDM Valley are two examples that I would like to point out. Neither of those teams had much success in RECENT YEARS (because Valley obviously had success in the past). But you get a couple of very good coaches to come in recently and look what happens. Coach Ryan and Windhorst have done a great job, they put the effort into their team and the teams have responded. Especially when you look at North, who would want to open enroll there? But they do have some kids that have recently and I think its great for the school to get those kids that open enroll and help out the basketball team and give the school some pride. But North would not have a chance if it doesn't have Coach Ryan caring about those kids and pushing them to be their best. I do think that there are valid points about kids not wanting to enroll into a extreme rural school and those schools that are in the middle of nowhere I do believe are at a disadvantage. But don't forget about the value of a good coach.
Where are the kids coming from that are open enrolling into North? Other DM schools or where?
There was a story on here posted in the offseason about how they all came together for basketball. To my knowledge it was the majority of their stars, at least their top 2 from this year and their best player from last year.
Here's the thing with transfers-if a kid comes in at 9th grade is he a transfer? If he is, then we can say all kids are transfers. Mims went to Xavier at 9th grade so he is not a transfer. Techau came at the end of his soph year so he is a transfer. Their best player from last year was Mitch Berger and he went through the Catholic school system so he is not a transfer. I talked to some people to find this out, I am not saying it is good or bad, but we need to know the facts before we start spreading rumors.
Mims has gone to Xavier his entire high school career. If you consider every kid that goes to a different feeder middle school than the one they attend high school at a transfer, then Xavier regularly loses more "transfers" than they ever gain. Also, that article that always gets quoted was written by a Xavier student. The guys in the article were transfers who played basketball. They didn't all collude with each other and decide to go to Xavier to play like NBA free agents
Thank you. Techau was the only true basketball transfer. Reese didn't play, Spencer moved from Mason City or Marshelltown, Maliki played football and Mims came as a freshman. I am not sure why people have a difficult time with this. Kids transfer all the time but because they decided on a private school it is big news?
Or when Printy transferred from Wash to Linn Mar a few years back? It happens everywhere.
Xavier is also a pretty decent academic school and from what I have been told, he is a smart kid. But why is it a big deal that he enrolled as a freshmen and has had great success? We should be happy that a kid who has worked his tail off is having success. Doesn't matter if the student goes to public or private, I like to see hard work pay off for any student athlete.
Anyone transfer recent (like spring break) so they can play next season right away? Like the Nyaw kid did from Storm Lake to GVC...at least I hope he did...he was playing first half of the season...
Should the 90 day sit-out be changed to 180 days? Or ya'll good with 90?
And is a kid transferring at spring break, only changing schools for sports reasons???
Should the 90 day sit-out be changed to 180 days? Or ya'll good with 90?
And is a kid transferring at spring break, only changing schools for sports reasons???
I think we should make it open season...anyone can go to any school at the beginning of the year and not have to sit...problem solved
I recall a certain public school basketball player from last season who switched teams mid-season from a non-playoff team to a playoff team. Sat out two weeks and started playing. Just moved into an apartment in the neighboring town.
Also went from QB'ing an 0-9 team to leading a team into the football playoffs.
Might have even had a similar address to an all state lineman who did a similar thing the previous year. Seems more than fair. Could they do that going into a private school?
this entire argument has been going on forever and will continue on well past any of those commenting on this forum. Yes there is no way to prove recruitment, and yes public schools can also get kids to open enroll even though its not as easy. The point is that nothing is going to change because our parents were having this same discussion 30 years ago. So if its not the recruitment that has led to decades worth of questions on why private schools have way more more state title and overall success in sports than public schools despite the way lower numbers of private schools. The ratios just don't add up or come even close, so I ask those who defend them, what is causing and has caused this way lopsided number. Better coaches, better kids, better parents, better facilities? There has to be a reason because the ratios are way too far off. I would just like to know what those who don't think there is an unfair advantage feel the reason for success is. Once again, I am not calling for change cause it will never happen just looking for some answers.
In the situation I am most familiar with the biggest difference is coaching. Weight room and on the field. People dismiss it but that is the primary factor. There are athletes but the coaches have taken it to another level. And yes there are multiple advantages as well as disadvantages.
Actually its the complete opposite - they don't want the the teacher\student ratio to go beyond what has shown to be the optimal for improving student learning.
Where are those "select" few private schools located? That might be an indicator for you...
plus the schools listed play some of their season playing larger class teams...Xavier plays MVC conference with the likes of IC West...Keumper played 10 3A schools thru out reg season...St Ed played 20 of 23 gms vs larger class schools....another team, St Albert CB (1A), not listed, played their whole reg season playing upper class teams...
Which would support a multiplier like the 1.25x iowalongs pulled from Illinois.
Using conferences or schedules as a guideline would likely be too challenging, as they can be manipulated. There's the whole out-of-state games impact too for those on state borders.
Schedules could be manipulated down or "dumbed down" just as easily playing up a class.
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(Not that it contradicts any of the recent posts, but just for the record once more--after I made my post I realized the Illinois multiplier is 1.65 not 1.25...which as I also mentioned is one of the more extreme approaches to handling the private school advantage.)
Western played about half their season against upper classes, PChristian play 3/4 of their season up...Does playing against larger schools give an unfair advantage? Its seems several private school are doing that...I know Guthrie Center is playing in a mostly 2A conference which was an advantage come 1A post-season time a few years back....Xavier was just over 500 for season and won 3A, some of that stems from play tougher comp for season...Would it solve some of the problem if the union restricted teams during season to their class? Grandview is interesting...they were playing in the Heart of Iowa with several 2A or larger schools for about 4 yrs, they were around 500 most of the yrs....chose to switch to a 1A conference...now they are trying to go back after success...maybe ironic...would the Heart of Iowa take them back now? Should they be back in HOI based on the discussion here? Maybe a multiplier for post season? Anyone have numbers on the success of private school in those states where they added a multiplier during the first few years after the multiplier was added? did it level the playing field?
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should a multiplier be added to any public school that is having constant success or clear advantages like size (ex. Valley..3X the smallest school in 4A) or other advantages like close to large Metro (ex. Van Meter or Earlham..fairly close to DM)? Does success draw other to join? Are private schools the only ones with extra advantages?
Hahaha. Can't believe you threw Sigourney into that mix. They " recruited" two players from the Czech Republic under the guise of foreign exchange students ( who just coincidentally) happened to be excellent basketball players. One who went professional in Europe a year out of high school!! What are the chances a small Podunk school gets two outstanding basketball players as foreign exchange students.And to have the girls head basketball coach do it? Laughable!!! The public schools do more recruiting than anyone. Ever hear of Jared Uthoff? Among others. Lol
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I'd be interested in knowing how many private schools reach the state tournament each year or at least reach the finals. In 3-A you have 64 schools..only 4 being private. Look at those 4 though...Xavier, Wahlert, Heelan, Assumption. Each from a large community drawing kids in from all over. 4-A only has Dowling and 47 other large schools. Look at what Regina is doing in class 2-A if Football!
My point may have been missed, which was: In general, it's going to be easier to pull kids into existing private schools in large metros vs. small rural public. Regardless of the sport, it's going to be easier to pull someone into a school in IC, DSM, CR (pick the metro) as the metro will simply have more opportunities and population to pull from compared to rural.
As you state above with Sigourney, and another poster mentioned about Murray - could there be exceptions and individual situations that goes against my point - absolutely. I'm speaking in generalities.
Again, not familiar with Sigourney or IC Regina or privy to their situations, but it's interesting to hear what happened there. In a way, the fact Sigourney had to go to the lengths of foreign exchange to get that kind of a student athlete, kind of validates the point. I'm guessing Sigourney and their surrounding area would not have student athletes like that at their disposal to open enroll with. Could it be that Sigourney felt the need to go to that extreme to keep up with the arms race? I don't know, but maybe someone closer to the situation can speak to it.
I personally wouldn't equate foreign exchange with open enrollment (it's two different situations), but will leave that to individual interpretations.
In full disclosure, I have two kids at a private school in a large metro.
To follow up on this. The Illinois multiplier would need to be changed to apply to Iowa schools. In its current form it applies only to non boundary schools which is 100% of Iowa schools.
I can't take the time to research how many private schools reach the state tournament every year, but here are the stats on how many private schools have reached and won the finals since 1985 when they went to 4 classes (33 total years).
1st = champs, 2nd = runner up, total = combined (how many reached final out of 66 total teams...33 years x 2 teams per year)
1A: 2 1st (6%), 9 2nd (27%), 11 total (17%)
2A: 12 1st (36%), 15 2nd (45%), 27 total (41%)
3A: 17 1st (52%), 9 2nd (27%), 26 total (39%)
4A: 1 1st (3%), 0 2nd (0%), 1 total (2%)
On average since 1985, 24% of the champs in any given year (all classes) are private school, and 25% of the teams reaching the finals (all classes) are private school.
Xavier's grad class from this year, starting bball lineup, nearly all transferred in specifically for basketball -was even in the paper with statements from each.
If 100% of iowa schools have no boundaries than what is considered "open enrolling" if not from your school districts boundaries to another?
Are you referring to the article that someone posted in this thread? Written by a Xavier student for the Xavier newspaper that is 2 years old. Techau is the only kid who is a 'transfer' who played this year. While his transfer was mainly for basketball, the others who enrolled had quotes taken out of context. Mims is not a transfer, he enrolled when he was a freshmen. Berger played for them last year came up through the school system. Joens, an all state player, came up through the school system. A few others moved in from out of town and since Xavier is a Catholic school, perhaps their faith played a role in their decision. I know we want to think it always revolves around athletics, but it is possible to pick a school based on academics or faith.
I find it fascinating that so much time and energy have been put into this discussion about a topic no one has really any control over. I attended a private school and we always heard the same argument, but what people fail to realize is the majority of the time there is more to the decision than athletics.
you don't consider Mims a transfer, REALLY?....He came there specifically for basketball and transferred with his brother who was a senior, who also came there specifically for basketball. Is this how you private schoolers justify all the transfers?...gimme me a break.
No. He is not a transfer. His brother? Yes, he is considered a transfer. But when a student enrolls as a freshman, before high school starts, then that student is not a transfer. In order to be a transfer one has to attend one high school and then transfer to another. I'm not niave enough to believe transfers don't happen because of athletics, however, in this instance he did not transfer.
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