I am not a fan of that because say a school makes a run for the state title for the first time in history and has an unusually loaded senior class, it wouldn't be very fair to next years team who won't even compare in talent to have to play up a class. The system you refer to is professional so the players return to play which makes more sense to run that system.
Am I the only one sick of it?
- Thread starter GreasedPig75
- Start date
I agree. The professionals are professionals. A team comes in Jr. heavy and makes it to the dome (top 4-8 teams) and would have a real shot at the title next year but instead they are bumped up. The shot is there, but definitely from further back. Also it completely ignores enrollment changes. You can easily have a fluctuation of 10-20 kids between years. Regardless of the talent lost, the biggest issue of this thread is number. 20 kids go a long ways, especially when trading seniors for 8th graders.
I think that is the point though. You do well then bam lets see how you do against tougher competition. If you drop in enrollment and aren't able to compete you drop down. It wouldn't negatively effect many teams and would separate teams by a how competitive they are instead of by an arbitrary number. Gone would be these arguments of " that teams has an unfair advantage" or "that team recruits."
Which teams from this year would struggle if they move up a class.
Regina --many of their supporter say they can compete at 3a
St ED--again many of their supporters say they could do well at the next class up
NFV-- they will move up next year because of enrollment
Van Meter--not sure
Which teams from this year would struggle if they move up a class.
Regina --many of their supporter say they can compete at 3a
St ED--again many of their supporters say they could do well at the next class up
NFV-- they will move up next year because of enrollment
Van Meter--not sure
So you penalize the underclassmen because the seniors overachieved. That makes sense. What is wrong with a team winning multiple championships???? Why not celebrate what these KIDS have accomplished? It is high school sports after it is all said and done.
I guess I don't see it as penalizing anyone. Are you saying we need to make it easy for good programs to reward them.
Do you see a teams success based on talent if so then this system would be bad because talent fluctuates. What doesn't fluctuate is coaches, tradition, community involvement. Enrollment does make a difference with the ability to get bodies out to compete but enrollment only doesn't tell the whole story.
Do you see a teams success based on talent if so then this system would be bad because talent fluctuates. What doesn't fluctuate is coaches, tradition, community involvement. Enrollment does make a difference with the ability to get bodies out to compete but enrollment only doesn't tell the whole story.
So, if you're going to have some form of moving teams based on sustained level of play, there aren't that many schools to consider. If you do it, you would have to have some parameters and have a committee judge each on a case-by-case basis, while also allowing an appeals process (Massachusetts does this). For instance, Regina and St. Albert have established themselves as incredibly dominate teams in 1A over the last 10 years (part of that in 2A for Regina). Their sustained level of play could justify that each play up a class (2A) in football for two years even though enrollment puts them in 1A. The move would be re-evaluated after two years, and could be appealed based on non-obvious factors (e.g. significant enrollment drop, loss of big-time players, etc.).
But I really don't see any other schools that you would do that to. Heelan was 4A until about 2007, where they had some success but were not great. Then they became a really good team in 3A, especially with McCabe and Wegher, but even so have been beaten in the playoffs by powerhouses Harlan (twice), Solon, and Decorah. Do you move all of those teams up to 4A where they likely become above average like Heelan once was? That seems dumb, and you'll never have a "storied" program again unless its a legit 4A team like Valley.
What would make more sense, and Massachusetts also does this, would be to not move teams up so much, but rather move teams down. They often do this with their "vocational/technical high schools" (which have much lower participation rates) or fledgling programs in order to give them a fighting chance at winning some games and maybe making a playoff run from time to time. For an example of how this looks, read this article about a team in Mass making an appeal last year to move down:
http://www.gazettenet.com/home/3602831-95/division-program-programs-teams
This post was edited on 11/21 9:45 AM by hackeysack
But I really don't see any other schools that you would do that to. Heelan was 4A until about 2007, where they had some success but were not great. Then they became a really good team in 3A, especially with McCabe and Wegher, but even so have been beaten in the playoffs by powerhouses Harlan (twice), Solon, and Decorah. Do you move all of those teams up to 4A where they likely become above average like Heelan once was? That seems dumb, and you'll never have a "storied" program again unless its a legit 4A team like Valley.
What would make more sense, and Massachusetts also does this, would be to not move teams up so much, but rather move teams down. They often do this with their "vocational/technical high schools" (which have much lower participation rates) or fledgling programs in order to give them a fighting chance at winning some games and maybe making a playoff run from time to time. For an example of how this looks, read this article about a team in Mass making an appeal last year to move down:
http://www.gazettenet.com/home/3602831-95/division-program-programs-teams
This post was edited on 11/21 9:45 AM by hackeysack
Yes we may not have the storied programs but it will be a better competitive balance. Would you rather see Solon battling a City High team or a Waterloo East team? Can Harlan compete against the big Sioux City schools? Or is handing a trophy to the "storied" schools that important. Some storied programs may have some mediocre years but they are playing like competition. The districts will be more competitive and the playoffs will be as well.
Lets face it this won't happen but neither are any other changes. The current system is what it is.
Lets face it this won't happen but neither are any other changes. The current system is what it is.
Privateer -
Enrollment makes a huge difference. That is why we have different classes. But........ to go to a school who has the coaches/parents/tradition and tell them it is not fair because you are successful ........is in no way teaching our kids anything useful.
This post was edited on 11/21 10:13 AM by L N D
Enrollment makes a huge difference. That is why we have different classes. But........ to go to a school who has the coaches/parents/tradition and tell them it is not fair because you are successful ........is in no way teaching our kids anything useful.
This post was edited on 11/21 10:13 AM by L N D
How about rewarding them by moving them up a class because they are successful? Why not drop them a class so they can be assured of a playoff experience then? Yes enrollment can make a difference but not that much. Why shouldn't we teach them that as you get success you will have even tougher challenges to overcome? Lets not spoil them and hand them an easy route year in and out.
for this to work you would have to shut down OE. or you would have kids play football at school A & transfer after football & sit 90 days & play for school B the next year. Similar to what a couple of softball players that were OE'd to CCA from IC district & then the next year OE'd to Solon did not to long ago.
How about give them all a trophy and tell them they are great? No need to go through that pesky losing/winning thing. It is a great way to get them ready for college, employment etc.
Great reply but means nothing. How about we have one trophy and throw all the teams in one class? If you just work harder you can win it all.
Privateer-
How about rewarding them by moving them up a class because they are successful? Why not drop them a class so they can be assured of a playoff experience then? Yes enrollment can make a difference but not that much. Why shouldn't we teach them that as you get success you will have even tougher challenges to overcome? Lets not spoil them and hand them an easy route year in and out
Totally agree with that statement.
But what happens when a team dominates at the 4A level? Sometimes we send the wrong message to the people that matter the most.......THE KIDS! Remember this is high school sports!
How about rewarding them by moving them up a class because they are successful? Why not drop them a class so they can be assured of a playoff experience then? Yes enrollment can make a difference but not that much. Why shouldn't we teach them that as you get success you will have even tougher challenges to overcome? Lets not spoil them and hand them an easy route year in and out
Totally agree with that statement.
But what happens when a team dominates at the 4A level? Sometimes we send the wrong message to the people that matter the most.......THE KIDS! Remember this is high school sports!
I really don't think anything will get done on changing things let alone a drastic change. I am not sure anything really needs to be done either. I would like to see more competitive games but there are never any sure ways to get that. We all get tired of the public vs private debate and and a lot of the advantages that the private schools have are shared by the bed room communities of large metro areas. A system to equate the teams to make it competitive would be a fun idea but like I said is not going to happen.
One trophy? One winner? How are we going to teach kids that it is all about feeling good and that achievement isn't really important at all if only one team gets a trophy? Nope that idea won't work at all. We will however be mailing out the "ya gave it a good try certificate" oh yeah and a box of orange slices.
That sentence is at the heart and soul of this debate. You cared and were involved in your kids' lives. Far more students that attend private schools have that parental involvement/backing than their public school counterparts. If you compared Heelan's population to East's population, I have no doubts that you'd find the same number, or maybe even a handful more athletes at East that have the same backing/involvement from their parents, but you are also drawing from 400% more students to find the same number. I use East because they are the "rich" public school in Sioux City... with 42.9% of students on free and reduced lunch. North is at 57.4%. West is at 60.3%.
I stated I was for a multiplier in a different thread. I've changed my mind. I'm not for a multiplier. I'm for a divider. Someone else suggested this in one of the many public vs private threads: Discount 50% of the FRL students off of the enrollment and be done with it. You'd see some HUGE swings in classifications if they did that.
We should make Valley and Bettendorf play in Florida to make it fair for the lesser quality opponents
I don't mind if you toss all of the "Private Schools" into a class all unto their own, or use the multiplier to "even the playing field" but from that day on every "Public School" Championship should include an asterisk * Signifying that they probably wouldn't have won it IF a "Private School" was in their Class. To be the best you have to beat the best, not sweep them under the table and ignore them. Just saying.
Ha what made me laugh most about that article is about Cook saying no players have transferred in that are in high school. Okay.
Jake Brinkman- Iowa City West I believe
Michael Cooper- Not sure where he's from
Bryan Amelon- City High
Matt Mcbeth- Pekin Iowa? Wheres that. Heard Regina is paying for an apartment for that kid to live in up in Iowa City.
Don't wanna waste anymore time researching but theres a couple. If more are needed to be found give me time and I will. Is this not obvious? Or more like is it not obvious enough Regina has the state by their private parts? Like seriously, i mean i believe only a certain amount of coaches are allowed on the field during a timeout, when Regina takes a timeout it looks like theres an army out on the field. Thats just a little example.
Jake Brinkman- Iowa City West I believe
Michael Cooper- Not sure where he's from
Bryan Amelon- City High
Matt Mcbeth- Pekin Iowa? Wheres that. Heard Regina is paying for an apartment for that kid to live in up in Iowa City.
Don't wanna waste anymore time researching but theres a couple. If more are needed to be found give me time and I will. Is this not obvious? Or more like is it not obvious enough Regina has the state by their private parts? Like seriously, i mean i believe only a certain amount of coaches are allowed on the field during a timeout, when Regina takes a timeout it looks like theres an army out on the field. Thats just a little example.
Ok, but it happens at Public schools too
QB at Solon moved his Senior year to Solon to play football and get exposure.
Pig,
You are so wrong on so many post you put on this site...its really rather amusing. For the record.
Brinkman. His dad is the dline coach and came to Regina in 7th grade. Going to school at the school your dad coaches at is not recruiting, He was in 4th grade when his dad started coaching at Regina.
Amelon. Went to Regina from Kindergarten to 8th grade. Went to City for two years, didnt like it, came back. That is not recruiting. Thats just getting one back that left.
Cooper. Transfered from West High after 9th grade. For reasons not related to football that I will not go into. GREAT kid but kickoff team and 4th string tailabck...Big Recruit.
Macbeth. Transfered to Regina after sophmore year. Im sure Marv Cook was driving through Pekin and saw him in the parking lot and started recruiting him.
In the last four years regina has had TWO kids play any significant time that were not at Regina as an elementary student Other than Coach Brinkman s kids. Matt McBeth and Berkley Grimm (west high)
I know blaming new transfers every year for Reginas success makes you feel better but it really has no affect on their success. Regina wins 56 in a row and 4 straight with or without Grimm and McBeth. It does however diminish what these kids have accomplished. In 2011 the whole senior class was at Regina as 1st graders!
I can name five or six kids that open enrolled to Solon over the last seven years including a damn good qb this year. I dont begrudge or blame the kids for doing that...more power to them. Who wouldnt want to go play there. The point is if you have successful programs a few kids are going to want to go play there and try to advance their skill and hopefully increase their chance to play at a higher level. TWO KIDS over 7 years at Regina and there is some big recruiting conspiracy. ?. Regina typically loses 7 or 8 kids every year to city or west that decide to leave between 6th and 7th grade..they lose a lot more than they get. THESE ARE THE FACTS. If you have somthing that proves the above statments are wrong then put it out there. Otherwise dont put wrong information out there as the truth.
Paying for an apartment for a kid! You are a delusional pig, you may want to go to the Vet and get a checkup.
Pig...have the facts...something you rarely have. Thats why your posts are humorous at best.....but mostly just ill informed foaming at the mouth.
You are so wrong on so many post you put on this site...its really rather amusing. For the record.
Brinkman. His dad is the dline coach and came to Regina in 7th grade. Going to school at the school your dad coaches at is not recruiting, He was in 4th grade when his dad started coaching at Regina.
Amelon. Went to Regina from Kindergarten to 8th grade. Went to City for two years, didnt like it, came back. That is not recruiting. Thats just getting one back that left.
Cooper. Transfered from West High after 9th grade. For reasons not related to football that I will not go into. GREAT kid but kickoff team and 4th string tailabck...Big Recruit.
Macbeth. Transfered to Regina after sophmore year. Im sure Marv Cook was driving through Pekin and saw him in the parking lot and started recruiting him.
In the last four years regina has had TWO kids play any significant time that were not at Regina as an elementary student Other than Coach Brinkman s kids. Matt McBeth and Berkley Grimm (west high)
I know blaming new transfers every year for Reginas success makes you feel better but it really has no affect on their success. Regina wins 56 in a row and 4 straight with or without Grimm and McBeth. It does however diminish what these kids have accomplished. In 2011 the whole senior class was at Regina as 1st graders!
I can name five or six kids that open enrolled to Solon over the last seven years including a damn good qb this year. I dont begrudge or blame the kids for doing that...more power to them. Who wouldnt want to go play there. The point is if you have successful programs a few kids are going to want to go play there and try to advance their skill and hopefully increase their chance to play at a higher level. TWO KIDS over 7 years at Regina and there is some big recruiting conspiracy. ?. Regina typically loses 7 or 8 kids every year to city or west that decide to leave between 6th and 7th grade..they lose a lot more than they get. THESE ARE THE FACTS. If you have somthing that proves the above statments are wrong then put it out there. Otherwise dont put wrong information out there as the truth.
Paying for an apartment for a kid! You are a delusional pig, you may want to go to the Vet and get a checkup.
Pig...have the facts...something you rarely have. Thats why your posts are humorous at best.....but mostly just ill informed foaming at the mouth.
One slight correction - Black didn't OE to Solon, his family moved to Solon due to job relocation.
Want to tell me who Mcbeth lives with? Cause it's not his parents up there. It's a current player. Regina's ad straight up told my son that you guys saw him at a camp.
Pig
His Mom and Stepdad moved to West Liberty from Pekin his freshman year of school. He came to Regina because he wanted to play for them and not West Liberty. His mother drove him to school every day. When his parents moved back to Pekin he decided to stay and lives with a Regina family. I don't know what AD told your son that information because our current AD wasn't even at Regina when he transfered to Regina. Reginas current AD didn't even start at Regina until this summer, a year and a half after McBeth transfered. As I posted earlier. Two kids in 7 yes have transfered to Regina...Grimm and McBeth. What camp is the Regina Staff Recruiting freshman in High School at...I don't even know of camps for high school freshman. Regina wins with or without him anyway..he started like 5 games for them this year.
As I stated earlier...come with facts...not second hand stories from your son who heard it from an Ad who didn't even work at Regina at the time. If it was the former AD I wouldn't put a lot of merit in anything he says. There is a reason he is the ex AD.
I do stand corrected on Black. His family moved due to job situation.
As I said..I don't begrudge any kid for wanting to go play for a good program. If I had a kid that had a decent shot at moving to the next level I would want him to play for the best program and coacoaches if possible.
Anybody other than Grimm and McBeth? Still waiting.
His Mom and Stepdad moved to West Liberty from Pekin his freshman year of school. He came to Regina because he wanted to play for them and not West Liberty. His mother drove him to school every day. When his parents moved back to Pekin he decided to stay and lives with a Regina family. I don't know what AD told your son that information because our current AD wasn't even at Regina when he transfered to Regina. Reginas current AD didn't even start at Regina until this summer, a year and a half after McBeth transfered. As I posted earlier. Two kids in 7 yes have transfered to Regina...Grimm and McBeth. What camp is the Regina Staff Recruiting freshman in High School at...I don't even know of camps for high school freshman. Regina wins with or without him anyway..he started like 5 games for them this year.
As I stated earlier...come with facts...not second hand stories from your son who heard it from an Ad who didn't even work at Regina at the time. If it was the former AD I wouldn't put a lot of merit in anything he says. There is a reason he is the ex AD.
I do stand corrected on Black. His family moved due to job situation.
As I said..I don't begrudge any kid for wanting to go play for a good program. If I had a kid that had a decent shot at moving to the next level I would want him to play for the best program and coacoaches if possible.
Anybody other than Grimm and McBeth? Still waiting.
Shadow, I respectfully disagree with you on this point. That 2010 defense(with Grimm) was one for the ages. Solon did score the only TD the starters gave up that year on a 30 yard field. Without Grimm that defense would have been one of the better ones as well. On offense replace Grimm with Vollstedt like they did in the championship game and the result is most likely the same.
Even if you take the Solon game away they are still at 55 in a row and 4 straight. Grimm or not they win the 2010 title..no doubt about that. McBeth wasn't there for 2011 and 12. If any body thinks they don't win it this year with or without him they didn't watch any Regina Games this year.
when Marv was hired back in 2006 or 2007 (somewhere around there), the consensus of the Regina football program faithful was "we wanted Corey Scott" and "this is not a good hire".
Why do I bring this up?
Because, without Marv Cook on staff, the Regals would not have Drew Cook.
Without Drew Cook, you would lose 3-5 of his former youth basketball and baseball buddies.
So, in other words, these very affluent families would not have chosen for their children to go to ICR.
Try to disprove that one.
Why do I bring this up?
Because, without Marv Cook on staff, the Regals would not have Drew Cook.
Without Drew Cook, you would lose 3-5 of his former youth basketball and baseball buddies.
So, in other words, these very affluent families would not have chosen for their children to go to ICR.
Try to disprove that one.
