Am I the only one sick of it?

[icu81222]

Originally posted by pribs36:
And no one has still explained to me how some of the most dominant programs in the history of 1A are from as rural area as it gets (emmestburg) what was their secret or advantage? They won three state championships in a row, its possible to win that many championships in a row with the right coaches and players

Of course there are going to be some programs that exceed. It would be foolish to think that it can't happen in the right situation. (I think you have used this example before in other threads and I responded. In fact Harlan and Solon were the other examples used)

But we are also seeing communities like Emmetsburg on the decline all across Iowa.

People always like to throw out Harlan and Solon as examples as well. Harlan already is 3A so they aren't an issue. Solon went to 3A, problem solved. 3A sized communties aren't the issue.

 

[icu81222]

Originally posted by printit:
It has nothing to do with "better" it has to do with more inventory to draw from. this isn't that hard people.

So, said another way...."do you really want to send the message to a class A school that they are half as good as a 2A school?"

So what do you do with the West Branch's of the world? They sit 8 miles outside of Iowa City. I'm going to take a wild guess that there are families that have chosen to reside there for a "small town" atmosphere but work at the U or work in Iowa City. Solon, Clear Creek Amana etc. Do they not draw from the same inventory? How do you handle those communities and what is the mile marker that changes that advantage?

A school like Solon will eventually grow to the point of being 3A. Problem solved.

WB and CCA still have the same issues that all public schools do as pointed out elsewhere.

Their enrollment is likely increasing as well and I'm sure they will grow their way up to a higher class.

 

[icu81222]

Originally posted by DarkThunder#61:

Originally posted by icu81222:
It has nothing to do with "better" it has to do with more inventory to draw from. this isn't that hard people.

So, said another way...."do you really want to send the message to a class A school that they are half as good as a 2A school?"

Dumb.

What? That's preposterous. There's no 2A schools in Class A.........

I was using the same "logic" as the poster I was responding to. thanks for pointing out that both were preposterous. That was my whole point.

 

[icu81222]

Originally posted by notlongago:

Originally posted by

I don't know exactly which schools are private and which ones are not, but here is a list of the private schools I found that are in the bottom 10 of BCMoore's rankings in their respective classes.

Ankeny Christian 8-Man
Cedar Valley Christian 8-Man
Unity Christian 2-A

Someone said there are 25 private schools (idk if that's right, could be)

waterloo Columbus and DM Christian were bad as well. Pella Christian was far from good as well and those handful of schools that are at the bottom I found in about 15 seconds of looking so I suppose it's possible those are the only bad teams which is 5/25. There are about 10/25 that were really good and I bet that last 10 are in between... So draw your own conclusions.

PC and DM Christian have been pretty good most years. Columbus won a state title in the last 10 years didn't they?

Yes, they had down years. It's likely to happen sometimes. My guess is that at least 2 of the 3 programs will be strong again shortly.

 

[hackeysack]

Regina actually does have a boundary. There are only 17,000 Catholics in all of Johnson County (which has a population of 111,000). So 85% of the population of Johnson County has no interest in Regina and doesn't even consider sending their kids there. There is probably some percentage of those 17,000 Catholics who have no interest in Regina either. And if you live in Iowa City and want your kid to play on a winning football team, why not choose one of the two public schools in town that have reached the state championship a combined 10 times in the last 20 years?

 

[Rembrandt52328]

I find it interesting that we have some version of this discussion in every Class listed except Class A. Is it coincidence that there isn't a Catholic school in the Class A Championship Game? In 4A, this is the first time ever I believe there has been 2 Catholic schools in the finals. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong) I'm not really a believer in the idea of, your team needs to get better. But I'm starting to lean that way. So lets say we make a change and I don't mean playing the Semi's and Finals in ROME!!!!! (That's outright rude! How would you like me to insult your religion or community?)

Lets put a multiplier on all Catholic Schools. So What do you do in a few years when you have:

4A…... Xavier, Dowling and maybe Heelan in the finals?
3A……You could have Wahlert and Assumption or Beckman and Kuemper in the Finals!
2A……Regina and St. Edmonds in the Finals!
1A……Newman Catholic
A..……Don Bosco!

Do we have this conversation again. Make all Catholic schools play 4A so the smaller schools will have an easier trip to the Dome?

We have this argument every year at State Finals time when someones school lost to a Catholic School. I can only imagine next year if 4A goes to Districts as it looks like they will, and Xavier, Assumption, and Wahlert go to 3A (where they belong). I'm sure the 3A post will blow up the day that is announced.

There is no good answer here except maybe "get better!" If you move all Catholic School up a Class you're going to have the same issues "you are sick of" but new schools to blame!

 

[icu81222]

Originally posted by printit:
I would like to address the posts that say "work harder" is a stupid argument. I have a close friend who is the new Superintendent at a northcentral Iowa school district. He wants to change the athletic environment to be successful. He has younger kids so one of the things he started when he got there is starting a morning running club for Track. It was not being done. Parents are gladly making donations for a new weightroom and equipment. The support is there. The coaches however, have informed him that they do not know how to put a lifting program together. He reached out to a professional organization and they brought one in. The coaches have now informed him that they do not have the time to go to the weightroom and supervise the kids. They come to practice at 3:30 and leave promptly at 5:30.

Following the the Regina/North Fayette Valley game, which was a good game, the North Fayette coach said we need to change things and basically add more to our offense. We can't keep doing the same thing.

This is what we are talking about. Teams like North Fayette could be scary if they go outside the box a little bit. Teams , like my friends case, need new coaching staffs plain and simple. It's not just the kids working harder but also the team's staff.

Work harder makes sense for those who understand athletics. Those of you who don't keep posting about the multiplier and moving all private schools to one class. You simply don't get it!

In 8-man, A, 1A and 2A communities they are generally limited to the people that reside in their school district to help coach. There are only so many of those types of individuals and there are VERY few former NFL and D1 players hanging around. 3A and 4A sized communities and metro areas simply have more inventory for coaching candidates as well.

----

Also, to say that there aren't some of those small public schools working just as hard as a private school is asinine. There are quite a few. I would guess that the % of publics vs % of privates would probably favor the privates. Absolutely. That's one of the obstacles we are discussing.

Sure, the top programs in the small publics probably have a good core of athletes and parents with the same level of dedication and commitment as the privates, however, it's that large # of kids outside that core that private schools don't have to deal with. Their core is much, much larger.

Thanks for helping to make the point.

This post was edited on 11/19 9:14 AM by icu81222

 

[bigfridaynite]

Is it just me or has the Private schools got more dominating lately in football?.
I know BB has been that way for awhile just because a couple kids can make a huge difference but it seems football is catching up a little.

 

[hackeysack]

Last 10 years:

4A: 5 of 20 teams reaching championship game are private (two of five this year)
3A: 5 of 20 teams reaching championship game are private (all Heelan)
2A: 4 of 20 teams reaching championship game are private
1A: 12 of 20 teams reaching championship game are private (Regina and St. Albert have been dominate of late)
A: 1 of 20 teams reaching championship game are private

The only real outlier here is 1A. And, really, the outliers are St. Albert, Regina, and Heelan, which have appeared in the state championship game a combined 17 times in the last 10 years.

If you use the last 12 years, here are the dominate teams:
St. Albert - 7
Regina - 6
Solon - 6
Valley - 6
Heelan - 5
Harlan - 4
Bettendorf - 4
Decorah - 3
Central Lyon - 3
Emmetsburg - 3

If you want to use a multiplier or create some socialist system where there is complete equivalency in who wins, then create it for those teams above, regardless if they're public or private. Otherwise you're simply creating a system based on religious prejudice.

 

[printit]

Are you that naive?

West Branch/Solon/CCA: have formed boundaries for their school district. WB, for example, has a population base of 2,625 to pool from.

Regina: has no formed boundary, and pulls kids from a community base of 120,000.

Try again, fella.



^^^ this is fantastic




Subject: Am I naive? No it's called open enrollment.....which is highly taken advantage of in the Iowa City area, and I would assume in other urban areas. Who exactly is naive?
You state we are pulling from an unfair inventory of kids. Yes we are in Iowa City, competing with West High and City High, two HIGHLY successful schools athletically and academically. But not only are we competing with them to get students in our doors we are competing with West Branch (8miles away), Solon (Solon 9 or 10 miles away) and CCA (maybe 5 miles away) ALL of which have kids open enrollling FROM IC to their schools.
This post was edited on 11/19 10:28 AM by printit

 

[Sev393]

Has anyone considered an "English soccer league system" where the top teams in each class (maybe 4 or 8) are promoted to the next class each year, and the bottom teams in the class above, are dropped down?

I think this would solve the issue of one team, public or private, dominating a class for a 5-10 year stretch, which I think is what most people are essentially objecting to when it comes to teams like Regina, Solon etc over the last few years.

My theory would be to re-district every year, which is what every other sport does. FB could go to a 10 game schedule (since half the teams are playing week 0 games anway) to insure 5 home, 5 away games for everyone. Or they could stay at 9 and leave it up to coach's and ADs to watch their home /away schedules so that it stays close over the years.
Pesonally I like a 10 game schedule with only 6 district games now.

comments/ criticisms?

 

[navyrules]

Originally posted by printit:

Are you that naive?

West Branch/Solon/CCA: have formed boundaries for their school district. WB, for example, has a population base of 2,625 to pool from.

Regina: has no formed boundary, and pulls kids from a community base of 120,000.

Try again, fella.



^^^ this is fantastic




Subject: Am I naive? No it's called open enrollment.....which is highly taken advantage of in the Iowa City area, and I would assume in other urban areas. Who exactly is naive?
You state we are pulling from an unfair inventory of kids. Yes we are in Iowa City, competing with West High and City High, two HIGHLY successful schools athletically and academically. But not only are we competing with them to get students in our doors we are competing with West Branch (8miles away), Solon (Solon 9 or 10 miles away) and CCA (maybe 5 miles away) ALL of which have kids open enrollling FROM IC to their schools.
This post was edited on 11/19 10:28 AM by printit

Which is exactly what I said earlier. That as IC West and IC High continue to get better I believe that Regina may see a bit of decline. But you are saying that you openly 'compete' for the best students. Whereas, most rural schools in 1A - 2A don't get a chance to 'compete' for the best students like school districts in and around the city areas. I am not saying that is not fair, just saying that is a fact of life.

 

[navyrules]

Originally posted by Sev393:

Has anyone considered an "English soccer league system" where the top teams in each class (maybe 4 or 8) are promoted to the next class each year, and the bottom teams in the class above, are dropped down?

I think this would solve the issue of one team, public or private, dominating a class for a 5-10 year stretch, which I think is what most people are essentially objecting to when it comes to teams like Regina, Solon etc over the last few years.

My theory would be to re-district every year, which is what every other sport does. FB could go to a 10 game schedule (since half the teams are playing week 0 games anway) to insure 5 home, 5 away games for everyone. Or they could stay at 9 and leave it up to coach's and ADs to watch their home /away schedules so that it stays close over the years.
Pesonally I like a 10 game schedule with only 6 district games now.

comments/ criticisms?

I also asked this question earlier and neither side seems to want to answer it. I would assume it's because no successful team wants to have their dominating stretch taken away just to make games more competitive.

 

[L N D]

First of all "the recruiting argument" must go away. All private schools recruit. THEY HAVE TO. It is not free to attend. How else to get families to go to a private school then go out and convince the families that maybe they have something to offer that the public schools do not. Not only that, but open enrollment really allows recruiting by public schools, especially in the metro areas. The public schools that suffer are in the rural areas. There are no other public schools to choose from that they can open enroll in unless they want to drive or move. So, that brings us to the smaller private schools. I can really only speak about the Catholic schools, but why do most families send their kids there? I would wager a fair amount - that faith has a big part in it. I do not know the percentages, but in the smaller Catholic schools I would venture to say 90% are Catholic. Education and extra-curricular activities obviously are as important and maybe more so to some parent. But most are still of the faith. Now there are some 4A/3A public schools in smaller sized cities, (under 30,000 people) like Carroll High, Ft. Dodge Senior High, Mason City, Algona that lose quite a few athletes to the Catholic schools. But, how many Catholic families send their kids to the public schools because they cannot or choose not to pay the tuition?

So with all of the posts/statements made I have come to this conclusion - The one supreme being (God) has to be Catholic. No other reason why so many teams are in the finals this year.

 

[pribs36]

The funniest part of this is schools like West Branch and Solon use to beat Regina all the time and Regina STILL was located in Iowa City. But once Regina hired a great coaching staff and established a strength and conditioning program all these schools blamed it on anything but that (population,recruiting,etc) people can come up with as many excuses as they want but the fact is that Regina was an awful football program for over 30 years due to coaching, and yes they still were located in the highly populated Iowa City area..I am not going to accuse anyone of being "misinformed" I am just wondering why no one can accept the fact that you can build a program with a great coaching staff and an unbelievable strength and conditioning coach

 

[navyrules]

Originally posted by pribs36:
The funniest part of this is schools like West Branch and Solon use to beat Regina all the time and Regina STILL was located in Iowa City. But once Regina hired a great coaching staff and established a strength and conditioning program all these schools blamed it on anything but that (population,recruiting,etc) people can come up with as many excuses as they want but the fact is that Regina was an awful football program for over 30 years due to coaching, and yes they still were located in the highly populated Iowa City area..I am not going to accuse anyone of being "misinformed" I am just wondering why no one can accept the fact that you can build a program with a great coaching staff and an unbelievable strength and conditioning coach

I don't think that anyone has argued that S/C and coaching is not a huge part of Regina's success. But there are other programs with great high school coaches with great s/c programs that don't have their level of recent sustained success. There is more to the SUSTAINED success at Regina than coaching and weights. I think you can admit that. Just like if they go 4-5 next year does that mean that their coaching is awful? Not by a long shot.

At some point you also have to admit that if you couple the s/c program, the huge draw of having two former Hawkeye legends coaching your team in Iowa City (large population base compared to any 1A or 2A rural school), and the fact that the traditional powers of IC West and High have had a few 'down' years, you have created a 'perfect storm' that leads to 55 straight wins and most probably 4 straight state titles. It's possible to admit that without taking away from the accomplishment.

Once again, not saying its unfair, but all of those things certainly serve as an advantage with out question.

 

[printit]

Which is exactly what I said earlier. That as IC West and IC High continue to get better I believe that Regina may see a bit of decline. But you are saying that you openly 'compete' for the best students. Whereas, most rural schools in 1A - 2A don't get a chance to 'compete' for the best students like school districts in and around the city areas. I am not saying that is not fair, just saying that is a fact of life.

11/19 11:52 AM | IP: Logged

So, my original comment was how are we pulling from a different inventory, than say 1A West Branch, who is in our district? They are 8 miles from IC, with families that work in Iowa City and the U, choosing to live in West Branch. They also have the benefit of accepting open enrolled students from our area and are a storied football program. I am not arguing that living in Iowa city is not a great benefit to Regina, we would not have the coaches we do, if we aren't located in Iowa City. My point is there are 6 highschools pulling from the same inventory of kids. But yet, only Regina is said to benefit from that "inventory." And yes they are public and they have to deal with all the problem kids Regina doesn't............West Branch is a rough town, I know. (Insert sarcasm)

Then I hear Solon moved up to 3A, problem solved. Really, problem solved? They don't benefit in a way other, more rural 3A schools don't, being within 10 miles of IC District....Would say a Keokuk, IA say Solon has an "inventory" advantage over them? I'm thinking yes. You can make this argument in every single class, private, public it doesn't matter.

 

[IAbaseball24]

This is a good read on this topic. Gives insight into what other states have tried.

http://www.athleticbusiness.com/articles/article.aspx?articleid=3938&zoneid=9

 

[bigfridaynite]

I'm just asking because I really don't know but would it be safe to say that most the kids playing at Regina wouldn't get much playing time at City High or West.

 

[DarkThunder#61]

Originally posted by hackeysack:
Last 10 years:

4A: 5 of 20 teams reaching championship game are private (two of five this year)
3A: 5 of 20 teams reaching championship game are private (all Heelan)
2A: 4 of 20 teams reaching championship game are private
1A: 12 of 20 teams reaching championship game are private (Regina and St. Albert have been dominate of late)
A: 1 of 20 teams reaching championship game are private

The only real outlier here is 1A. And, really, the outliers are St. Albert, Regina, and Heelan, which have appeared in the state championship game a combined 17 times in the last 10 years.

If you use the last 12 years, here are the dominate teams:
St. Albert - 7
Regina - 6
Solon - 6
Valley - 6
Heelan - 5
Harlan - 4
Bettendorf - 4
Decorah - 3
Central Lyon - 3
Emmetsburg - 3

If you want to use a multiplier or create some socialist system where there is complete equivalency in who wins, then create it for those teams above, regardless if they're public or private. Otherwise you're simply creating a system based on religious prejudice.

Well that should end this argument.......

 

[MVPFAN]

Originally posted by icu81222:

Originally posted by pribs36:
And no one has still explained to me how some of the most dominant programs in the history of 1A are from as rural area as it gets (emmestburg) what was their secret or advantage? They won three state championships in a row, its possible to win that many championships in a row with the right coaches and players

Of course there are going to be some programs that exceed. It would be foolish to think that it can't happen in the right situation. (I think you have used this example before in other threads and I responded. In fact Harlan and Solon were the other examples used)

But we are also seeing communities like Emmetsburg on the decline all across Iowa.

People always like to throw out Harlan and Solon as examples as well. Harlan already is 3A so they aren't an issue. Solon went to 3A, problem solved. 3A sized communties aren't the issue.

Emmetsburg has not won 3 football titles in a row that I am aware of. They and Harlan had and in Harlan's case still have two legends for coaches. That is the major reason for their success. Emmetsburg happens to be a very big catholic town that used to have a catholic and public high school until about 1970 when the catholic combined to the public. The convergence of the two schools into one and and administration that supported athletics and brought in great coaches all came around the same time and led to their athletics taking off. They and Urbandale were both in 3A in the late 70s. Emmetsburg has been on a steady population decline since. Less farmers having less kids and Catholics having less kids. The Catholic grade/middle school left struggles to keep enough students. Class sizes used to be 110 to 120 and now at 50. They have only about 12-15 kids in football per senior class these days and some classes with less. The other 10 or so boys are either not football material or as kids tend to be these days not very motivated. Without places to work there are no families coming to town. I do feel private schools on average have access to a little better pool to pick from both in physical ability and work ethic, you have to build a program to cash in on this though. The biggest factor is having a quality coach and the private schools in bigger areas do have access to a much larger and more diverse coaching tree and more than anything this is what helps them the most. Emmetsburg could have a superstar staff of just ex Emmetsburg players volunteering but the fact is there is limited job opportunities and the ones who are still around are too busy working to coach. Spencer has a number of Emmetsburg alums in town and their superintendent is a former Emmetsburg athlete. Spencer has jobs, Emmetsburg does not.

 

[rushtoexcellence]

MVPFan posted:

Without places to work there are no families coming to town. I do feel private schools on average have access to a little better pool to pick from both in physical ability and work ethic, you have to build a program to cash in on this though. The biggest factor is having a quality coach and the private schools in bigger areas do have access to a much larger and more diverse coaching tree and more than anything this is what helps them the most. Emmetsburg could have a superstar staff of just ex Emmetsburg players volunteering but the fact is there is limited job opportunities and the ones who are still around are too busy working to coach. Spencer has a number of Emmetsburg alums in town and their superintendent is a former Emmetsburg athlete. Spencer has jobs, Emmetsburg does not.


MVPFan has brought some real insight to this discussion that I think runs true. Not in all circumstances, but in general. It is about the economics of rural vs more urban. Not that the rural schools can not be good but there are generally not as many resources.

How many public schools can afford the 10 coaches that many of the private schools have? How many public schools can hire a strength and conditioning coach? How many public school kids have to have jobs to help pay for their expenses vs private school kids whose parents, in general, can afford to pay for everything for them?

Agreed that any team, public or private, has to have dedicated kids and coaches to be successful. But to not admit that there are advantages would not be telling the whole story.

Good luck to all the teams in the finals this week.

 

[Pinehawk]

Originally posted by rushtoexcellence:
MVPFan posted:

Without places to work there are no families coming to town. I do feel private schools on average have access to a little better pool to pick from both in physical ability and work ethic, you have to build a program to cash in on this though. The biggest factor is having a quality coach and the private schools in bigger areas do have access to a much larger and more diverse coaching tree and more than anything this is what helps them the most. Emmetsburg could have a superstar staff of just ex Emmetsburg players volunteering but the fact is there is limited job opportunities and the ones who are still around are too busy working to coach. Spencer has a number of Emmetsburg alums in town and their superintendent is a former Emmetsburg athlete. Spencer has jobs, Emmetsburg does not.


MVPFan has brought some real insight to this discussion that I think runs true. Not in all circumstances, but in general. It is about the economics of rural vs more urban. Not that the rural schools can not be good but there are generally not as many resources.

How many public schools can afford the 10 coaches that many of the private schools have? How many public schools can hire a strength and conditioning coach? How many public school kids have to have jobs to help pay for their expenses vs private school kids whose parents, in general, can afford to pay for everything for them?

Agreed that any team, public or private, has to have dedicated kids and coaches to be successful. But to not admit that there are advantages would not be telling the whole story.

Good luck to all the teams in the finals this week.

You must have missed the point that all of those coaches volunteer their time. The school doesn't have to 'afford' them.

But, MVP does raise a great point that I've thought about. It really isn't 'public' vs. 'private' so much as it is 'urban' vs. 'rural'.
The rural towns in Iowa have been, and are continuing to lose population. There aren't jobs to keep people in many of those small towns anymore. I think that is why schools are consolidating and many alumni stars of these former schools aren't able to stay in their hometown and lead their former schools to more success.
Lots of these small towns across Iowa are drying up.

 

[Iron Doc]

Sure. Why not?

 

[DarkThunder#61]

Here's where I think the issue gets lost, and to a certain point, I'll agree with Pine.

Many coaches volunteer their time to help these athletics programs get better, rather than get paid. They make time to help because they want to.

I understand that's not always available for everyone. Their real jobs (outside of coaching) are more important if they're providing for their families. I can understand how very rural communities struggle to find good coaching staffs because of these issues. These coaches HAVE to have the time to dedicate, not only their time to the kids and the team, but the time it takes to become a good coach.

You may know some things going in as a coach, but you can't just take that and run with it and never evolve. You look at these top programs, and I guarantee their coaches are constantly trying to find ways to keep up with the times and learn about coaching techniques and drills etc etc so that they can get the most out of their players. And yes, after a while you find what works and what doesn't and you adjust, but you have to be willing to adapt (and learn) as a coach.

And that takes time to do, just like anything else.

My suggestion is, if people have a problem or think they can help a sports program, go ahead and sign up and put in the time. Maybe you can make a difference in your team's success, rather than complaining about why they struggle.

And again I get if people don't have the time....find someone who does. If they really care, they'll put in the time. If they don't (or you don't), well then that's your own risk.

 

[bigfridaynite]

Double check last years 3-a championship game. Heelan was in it and heavily favored against Decorah. They were on the loosing end as well. So in 2012 there was a catholic school in the finals!!!!

 

[Iron Doc]

Originally posted by Iron Doc:
Sure. Why not?

Not sure how this comment wound up here. I was responding to the question as to whether my proposed "None Of The Above" school would be co-ed.

 

[pribs36]

Most the Regina coaches donate their salary back to the school and if they don't they don't make crap. To say that public schools can't afford strength conditioning coaches is wrong. 1. Most schools that I am aware of regardless of size do have a strength coach 2. It is not like the pay is very demanding (that is why most schools have one) And if the argument is about population of the schools location then name this thread "population problem" not "public vs private"

 

[cubbie-man]

Linn mar has a large population with many kids. Every middle school is new. They have a new football, baseball and aquatic center. But for football they seem to only have a couple good years in the last ten. There is money over there also. So it's not money. Talking east side Regina and Xavier have excellent coaching staffs and kids want to be a part of that.
Also how people talk about recruiting and say it's the private schools do it, there are a lot of ? Marks with public programs also. With open enrollment kids can go anywhere they want. Xavier for a fact looses kids from 8th grade to high school.

 

[GoHawks2009]

Originally posted by pribs36:
Most the 13 Regina coaches donate their salary back to the school and if they don't they don't make crap.

By the way if all those coaches are actual varsity assistants....you have more than both 4A Dowling and Valley. Being the best means overkill.

 

[cidhawkeye]

I believe the 13 are coaches for the entire program 7-12. Does that rate a CSB?

 

[Blacksoxs]

Here's a little story that may shed some light on this never ending debate. In my opinion this is what gives the private schools an advantage in some sports. A few years back, Davenport Assumption had somewhere around 50 boys in an incoming Freshman class. Of those 50, they had over 35 that played freshman baseball...which obviously has a great tradition at Assumption.

Posted this on the 2A Board on one of million public vs private debates this time of year:

You usually don't see that high of a percentage at a public school (35/50). The person I was talking to also said a high percentage of students were involved in multiple other extracurricular activities. I would be willing to bet that there is a higher percentage of students involved in extracurricular activities at a private school compared to a public school. Public schools are more likely to have kids in school that do not do anything but attend classes.

Look at it from football terms. A private 2A school and a public 2A school in football would have somewhere around 35-40 boys in each grade to choose from for football. Of those numbers, I would argue that a private school would have a slight edge in the number of those boys who are interested and/or capable of playing football....the extra numbers help give private schools an advantage.


Obviously, success of a program has a lot to do with this, so you have to give the coaches credit for running a successful program (Regina, CK, Heelan, Dowling). Success of a program leads to more community support and/or more parent support for all the other things that go with that sport (lifting, camps, fundraising). Also, success of a program leads to more people wanting to be apart of it....which is why you see successful public and private schools around the state getting more "new faces" then others.

To sum it up...private schools can have an advantage number wise. Ultimately, it is what you do with those numbers that really matters.

 

[pribs36]

If the coaches were coaching for the money they A. wouldn't be coaching at Regina and B. probably wouldn't be coaching at any 1A school for that matter. Obviously some of these coaches could easily get jobs at the 4A level, they stay at Regina because they are apart of the community and do it for the love of coaching.

 

[printit]

Blacksoxs - nice post!!!

 

[OtherWiseGinger]

Originally posted by printit:
I would like to address the posts that say "work harder" is a stupid argument. I have a close friend who is the new Superintendent at a northcentral Iowa school district. He wants to change the athletic environment to be successful. He has younger kids so one of the things he started when he got there is starting a morning running club for Track. It was not being done. Parents are gladly making donations for a new weightroom and equipment. The support is there. The coaches however, have informed him that they do not know how to put a lifting program together. He reached out to a professional organization and they brought one in. The coaches have now informed him that they do not have the time to go to the weightroom and supervise the kids. They come to practice at 3:30 and leave promptly at 5:30.

Following the the Regina/North Fayette Valley game, which was a good game, the North Fayette coach said we need to change things and basically add more to our offense. We can't keep doing the same thing.

This is what we are talking about. Teams like North Fayette could be scary if they go outside the box a little bit. Teams , like my friends case, need new coaching staffs plain and simple. It's not just the kids working harder but also the team's staff.

Work harder makes sense for those who understand athletics. Those of you who don't keep posting about the multiplier and moving all private schools to one class. You simply don't get it!

Is it easier to work harder with or without talent?

The only "advantage" a private school has (outside of location) in my opinion is (and I know they would never do this): Little 16 year old Joey that is a thug, been kicked out of 3 schools (one from out of state), does not participate in after school activities other than vandalism and hangin' in the parking lot, does not show drive to want to complete school nor be tolerant to rules, comes and applies at Iowa Rapids Religious Academy (fictional private school of course), do they have the option to reject his application? How many private schools would (honestly) take this kid?

Same kid - moves in to East Liberty (fictional public school) School district, they have to accept him.

 

[matomicmasher]

I think the problem is clear. No decent athletes go to public schools. Everyone left at public school after the decent athletes are recruited to the Catholic schools is a hopeless schmuck. We should discontinue athletics at all public schools. That would end this horrendous problem.

 

[icu81222]

Originally posted by Sev393:

Has anyone considered an "English soccer league system" where the top teams in each class (maybe 4 or 8) are promoted to the next class each year, and the bottom teams in the class above, are dropped down?

I think this would solve the issue of one team, public or private, dominating a class for a 5-10 year stretch, which I think is what most people are essentially objecting to when it comes to teams like Regina, Solon etc over the last few years.

My theory would be to re-district every year, which is what every other sport does. FB could go to a 10 game schedule (since half the teams are playing week 0 games anway) to insure 5 home, 5 away games for everyone. Or they could stay at 9 and leave it up to coach's and ADs to watch their home /away schedules so that it stays close over the years.
Pesonally I like a 10 game schedule with only 6 district games now.

comments/ criticisms?

this is actually an interesting concept.

 

[cyard31]

I would think that would pretty much eliminate repeat champions except in the top class

 

[Iron Doc]

A typical day at Iron Doc Memorial Sports HS:

Period 1: Breakfast: BACON, eggs, toast, grits, orange juice, full strength coffee
Period 2: Game videos - football or volleyball (as appropriate)
Period 3: Olympic power lifting
Period 4: Basic Literacy (based on placement tests) OR Study Hall
Period 5: DINNER - A hog roast OR smoked carp (cook's choice)
Period 6: Nap time
Period 7: Car Overhaul/Tuneup 101
Period 8: Trap/skeet shooting
Football/Volleyball practice (as appropriate)

Advantages Of Enrollment (NOT to be construed as a "recruiting" pitch ):

1. All day fun
2. Attendance optional (except during the season)
3. MUCH food, especially BACON!
4. NO eliteism in admissions - if you behave, you stay
5. Coaching staff is cool
6. No written tests

Now don't tell me that this wouldn't be a viable 3rd option, besides State School and Church School!!!

 

[icu81222]

Originally posted by cyard31:

I would think that would pretty much eliminate repeat champions except in the top class

I don't think you do an automatic moving up of champions necessarily. But even if, it's still not a bad idea but would certainly need some tweaks.