2023 Season
- Thread starter UCKights87
- Start date
I think the issue with Regina is the number of games they play in the regular season. They have the same number of regular season points as West Liberty but played 4 more games so points per game is lower.
| Points | Point Avg | Name |
| 31 | 1.938 | Gladbrook-Reinbeck |
| 20 | 1.667 | Western Christian |
| 21 | 1.400 | West Liberty |
| 18 | 1.385 | Des Moines Christian |
| 18 | 1.200 | West Branch |
| 21 | 1.105 | Regina Catholic |
| 15 | 0.938 | Treynor |
| 10 | 0.667 | Columbus Catholic |
That is just the theme this year. They halfway bought into a ranking system but still rely on the point system of what class a team you beat is from.
So, do you mean explain the math or explain how it's right?
I mean the formula is what it is - Ponies, did the calc above.
As for it making sense, there's a real flaw - If you schedule and win up-class east wins, you get extra points. If you schedule challenging games, that you lose, but it's ok, since you weren't expected to win, you still get penalized in the seeding because the denominator in the equation grows (dilutes your successes). As much as the ELO has flaws, it's probably better as a seeding tool.
That being said, I'd rather be a 6 than a 4/5. I guess it comes down to being the best, you have to beat the best. It needs to be the goal of any tournament to try to get the final with the 1 vs 2, but tournaments have upsets...
Not every team can schedule Waterloo East, Davenport West, Iowa Falls-Alden, Belmond Klemme, Sumner Fredricksburg, etc.
But, I guess the IHSAA wants everyone to try. Beating up on the worst 3A and 4A teams just for seeding points doesn't seem like a positive for the sport, but that's what the state is encouraging.
A win over 2A State qualifier Perry, is actually worth less than a win over 3A 0-13 Iowa Falls-Alden, or 3A 1-14 Sumner Fredricksburg.
But, I guess the IHSAA wants everyone to try. Beating up on the worst 3A and 4A teams just for seeding points doesn't seem like a positive for the sport, but that's what the state is encouraging.
A win over 2A State qualifier Perry, is actually worth less than a win over 3A 0-13 Iowa Falls-Alden, or 3A 1-14 Sumner Fredricksburg.
Plenty of teams on everybody's schedule that are cream puffs. Some are just geographical. I agree the points system is a little wacked. You definitely could game the system but to what end.
The state is only ever going to respond to the problems of the past. I don't think they have any mechanism to innovate in much of any way. So, if they hear from coaches that the system is broken, they MIGHT make changes, but change is slow.
I do agree with the point system, awarding points for winning when playing up, but maybe get rid of the denominator, so you don't get penalized for trying other than losing the opportunity to get a point (i.e. a 1A schedules a 3A and loses, they gain no points, but the lose an opportunity to have picked up a point in a 1A game) Maybe the ELO does a better job as it counts more on the quality of the opponent rather than the class.
The thing most like to see changed is some consideration of a penalty for cumulative yellow cards by player and or team across games. The current rules only address Red Cards (and when was the last time anyone actually saw or heard of one?) So, maybe some kind of rule that if a player accumulates a yellow in 3 consecutive matches, they must sit the next match, or their 19 allowed games is decreased by one, something like that. I'd also like to see something impact the team for accumulated yellows in the season. It's clear that some teams use dangerous behavior to gain an advantage but when disciplined, they do course correct, so it's not that they are un-disciplined teams, it's that they intentionally use dangerous play as a tool until they are called out for it.
The record does appear to be padded with really bad 3A teams. Which, has admittedly worked to this point, and landed them with the easiest path to the Finals.
At least 4 of those count as 2A games - Don't do much for development but they are some extra points.
I get it from the conference perspective, they're trying to build the sport and maybe they're successful. 3 out of the 8 state participants come from the RVC within a 9 mile radius (although it's hard to say that anything the conference has done has anything to do with the success of these 3 teams....)
You can complain about anything that you want but the system is what it is. Talk to the state or you AD about the issues. You clearly don't understand the rules.
Last year he complained about the Elo ranking system because it didn’t favor Regina and this year he’s saying it should be used now that it favors Regina more than the point system does. I respect the dedication.
No. I missed that the seeding points were averaged and not cumulative.
That was later explained, and I appreciated the clarification.
But, I do think it’s odd to use two different rating systems, at different points in the season.
And, the ELO ranking system clearly does have problems.
That was later explained, and I appreciated the clarification.
But, I do think it’s odd to use two different rating systems, at different points in the season.
And, the ELO ranking system clearly does have problems.
Predictions for Tuesday?
Personally, I have Gladbrook, West Branch, Western Christian, and Regina winning.
Personally, I have Gladbrook, West Branch, Western Christian, and Regina winning.
Who ya got for the Finals? I have GCGR vs Regina. GCGR winning overall their back line is pretty stacked
The more people I talk to, the more I understand that ELO, as implemented is only really very effective if all the teams play each other and it was designed to take a larger sample over a larger period of time. That being said, I think it's better than the point by class average (which would be less problematic if you took out the denominator and just ran with you win playing up you get points, you lose, you just lose the opportunity to get points had you played in class. Hopefully ELO can be tweaked a little, perhaps using the eventual results against the substate end rankings and see if they can adjust how "expected wins" are calculated and get rid of any 0-0 teams from the sample (if just looks bad.)
No system is going to be perfect. In the end the best have to win to win a championship. My only issue with seeding is we could end up with the two best teams not playing each other in the final. That's the only reason it matters, and that's important for fans.
Soccer is the red headed step child, but there are some media coverage but seems to be local or even school oriented but nothing updated regularly. Except for scores not much to keep updated. At least there is live stream.
Here are a couple quotes and examples of how physical the Regina vs. West Liberty game got:
“It means the world to be back here,” Lipsius said. “It means so much to everyone. Everyone is putting in all the effort, we have a couple of people bleeding because they are putting in all they can to every game.”
"Jack Hoover hopped off the bench for a postgame interview Tuesday at Cownie Soccer Park with a scraped-up lower leg that revealed the intensity of the last 80 minutes."
Coming in on the keeper, late, cleats up. No foul, no warning, no card. Luckily the keeper wasn't hurt.
“It means the world to be back here,” Lipsius said. “It means so much to everyone. Everyone is putting in all the effort, we have a couple of people bleeding because they are putting in all they can to every game.”
"Jack Hoover hopped off the bench for a postgame interview Tuesday at Cownie Soccer Park with a scraped-up lower leg that revealed the intensity of the last 80 minutes."
Coming in on the keeper, late, cleats up. No foul, no warning, no card. Luckily the keeper wasn't hurt.
Yeah, I get that, but you'd think they few sports writers, few ADs, few parents would post some score updates on Twitter, but there's nothing. IHSSN (and yes, wonderful having the streams available - hats off!) updated brackets (which IHSAA and Bound still largely haven't. I post with the hashtag #iahssocc but nobody else does (or any other tag I can find.) If you know of a better one, let me know.
I got nothing for you. Some schools and papers do better. There is a podcast that is all about promoting soccer. They will interview some of the teams but they are Des Moines centric. It is https://www.kifsoccer.com/. Iowa Score Stream is decent for football but terrible for soccer. The state site will post final scores but as far as up to date info you have to hunt around quite a bit.
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Here are a couple quotes and examples of how physical the Regina vs. West Liberty game got:
“It means the world to be back here,” Lipsius said. “It means so much to everyone. Everyone is putting in all the effort, we have a couple of people bleeding because they are putting in all they can to every game.”
"Jack Hoover hopped off the bench for a postgame interview Tuesday at Cownie Soccer Park with a scraped-up lower leg that revealed the intensity of the last 80 minutes."
Coming in on the keeper, late, cleats up. No foul, no warning, no card. Luckily the keeper wasn't hurt.
We have similar pictures from the Mediapolis vs West Liberty game last week. Luckily Drew was prepared for it and even got some tackles in while playing the ball as GK. #11 for WL did get a yellow mid first half and sat out the rest of the game after sliding into Drew cleating (nice mark and swollen below the eye) him in the face and kneeing him in the ribs.
They flopped a couple of times, too. Once #11 (again) did a clean slide tackle but then got up and in the face of our defender and tried to make it look like our defender shoved him down by flopping. The ref wasn’t having it, though he talked to both including our guy.
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