Yes, I agree that recruiting can be an issue for private schools, as they have to recruit every single student in the entire school to come and pay tuition if they want to survive.
1A State Predictions
- Thread starter Hawk2015
- Start date
The advantage you speak of is just not backed up by the results. ESPECIALLY in class A. Two private school champions in I don’t know how long. 18 plus years? Western Iowa public schools have been dominant in class A for a number of years. What has been their advantage? Other than good athletes and coaching?
Results like around half of every state tournament field is made up of private schools, which make up only 10% of Iowa schools. You mean those kind of results? I agree that the biggest advantage is the type of families that enroll in private schools. How can you argue the socioeconomic advantage in private schools? Look at their free and reduced lunch numbers compared to public schools if you want proof.
Public vs private in state tourney this year.
1A
1A
- Quarters: 4 public, 4 private
- Semis: 1 public, 3 private
- Final: 1 public, 1 private
- Quarters: 7 public, 1 private
- Semis: 4 public, 0 private
- Final: 2 public, 0 private
- Quarters: 7 public, 1 private
- Semis: 3 public, 1 private
- Final: 2 public, 0 private
- Quarters: 8 public, 0 private
- Semis: 4 public, 0 private
- Final: 2 public 0 private (semis not completed at time of posting but I'm fairly confident on this one)
- Quarters: 26 public, 6 private
- Semis: 12 public, 4 private
- Finals: 7 public, 1 private
Last edited:
I've still never heard a solid argument against the obvious socioeconomic advantages that private schools have from anyone ever. We could go on all day, but there is an obvious advantage, and it's not recruiting. Is it enough for a multiplier? Will the lazy IAHSAA ever care enough to talk about it anyways? That will be a whole thread of it's own and I don't have the time or energy for that.
Here’s a portion of a post copied over from a thread on 3A schools back in Nov-Dec 2017. Provides perspective many people often miss.
....”I need to hit you with some knowledge regarding Catholic schools and recruiting. First, since Catholic and all private schools for that matter are self-funded they all must 'recruit' all students to attend because without their tuition dollars the school can't function. So to say a Catholic school is recruiting athletes, while that may have some truth you also need to mention they are recruiting all students, not just the athletes. When you fail to mention that last piece it appears that Catholic and private schools are only trying to get athletes to attend those schools and that is simply not the case. The two schools I am most familiar with are Xavier and Regina. Both schools have high academic performances as well as strong fine arts programs to go with their respective athletic programs. So when you begin to discuss recruiting make sure you include all of the facts. Speaking of facts, Xavier nor Regina do not give out athletic scholarships. There is tuition assistance that is available for all of the students, not just the athletes. Dowling and Assumption may run their schools differently but you can't group all Catholic schools together because of the actions of a few. Hope this helps so we don't continue to spread false messages on this discussion board.”
....”I need to hit you with some knowledge regarding Catholic schools and recruiting. First, since Catholic and all private schools for that matter are self-funded they all must 'recruit' all students to attend because without their tuition dollars the school can't function. So to say a Catholic school is recruiting athletes, while that may have some truth you also need to mention they are recruiting all students, not just the athletes. When you fail to mention that last piece it appears that Catholic and private schools are only trying to get athletes to attend those schools and that is simply not the case. The two schools I am most familiar with are Xavier and Regina. Both schools have high academic performances as well as strong fine arts programs to go with their respective athletic programs. So when you begin to discuss recruiting make sure you include all of the facts. Speaking of facts, Xavier nor Regina do not give out athletic scholarships. There is tuition assistance that is available for all of the students, not just the athletes. Dowling and Assumption may run their schools differently but you can't group all Catholic schools together because of the actions of a few. Hope this helps so we don't continue to spread false messages on this discussion board.”
Sorry. I wasn’t replying to the above comment rather I was trying to quote the comment regarding the number of private schools versus the number of public schools. I don’t understand the problem between private schools and public schools. Comparing how many private schools made it to the state tournament versus how many public schools have made it makes no difference. There are far more public schools, so your stats aren’t surprising.
Best article I've read on this issue that is effecting many states, not just Iowa. 21 states employ a multiplier or are planning on implementing one. I think it was just 8 states a few years back that used a multiplier. This comes from the NFHS
https://www.nfhs.org/articles/states-continue-to-address-competitive-balance-of-schools/
https://www.nfhs.org/articles/states-continue-to-address-competitive-balance-of-schools/
Yes but as I've posted twice before, research published in a journal article shows it doesn't solve the "problem"
Most research on effectiveness of multipliers was done many years ago, when only 8 states were using multipliers. Now states are using different types of multipliers to balance their own states problems.
Research also shows the STRONG correlation between free and reduced lunch numbers and success in HS sports. Which again is where the private schools have their biggest advantage. All multipliers should focus on those numbers in my opinion. Regardless if you are private or public.
Research also shows the STRONG correlation between free and reduced lunch numbers and success in HS sports. Which again is where the private schools have their biggest advantage. All multipliers should focus on those numbers in my opinion. Regardless if you are private or public.
Well the article in question is from 2015. As it notes, there is no doubt that private schools win a higher percentage of championships (more in some states than others). A solution to the "problem" is difficult to find, and it specifically mentions multipliers: "The impact of the multiplier on delivering competitive balance, however, indicates limited success...[Also], is a multiplier a copout for good performance? James asks; 'Is it possible that success begets success, and that the key challenge in athletics is to build a tradition of success rather than legislating success through a gerrymandered multiplier?' In addition to the difficulty associated with pinpointing the correct number to ensure competitive balance, a multiplier appears to be a blunt instrument that impacts many private schools that are not athletically successful."
http://www.jamsport.org/Johnsonetal2015 JAS PDF.pdf
The article you posted is helpful, I think there is something to be said for evaluating and addressing the socioeconomic factors involved.
http://www.jamsport.org/Johnsonetal2015 JAS PDF.pdf
The article you posted is helpful, I think there is something to be said for evaluating and addressing the socioeconomic factors involved.
I think people forget that most private schools don't have special needs students whereas public schools do and these are included in the BEDS numbers. Doubtful it is a great number though but they are included in BEDS.
It's more than you think. The makeup of students who are even able to go out for sports at a public school is far less than the makeup of students who are able to go out for sports at private schools. Add that in with the fact that most of the private schools that dominate the smallest 3 classes in Iowa come from the big cities (Iowa City, Cedar Rapids, Dubuque, Sioux City, etc..), and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the massive head start the private schools get.
Class 4A is completely irrelevant to the conversation. Those schools are playing in the top class (as they should be). They aren't a big city taking on a small town like you get in the 1A-2A-3A games. This discussion shouldn't take 4A into account at all. What we're arguing for is that more of the private schools should be in 4A.
Well, don't forget all the kids who go to private schools strictly for academics and never consider playing a sport. Be sure to subtract them from the pool if that's what we're doing.
That's not what we're doing. How are those kids at all like mentally disabled kids who the public schools must accept? I'm talking about kids that aren't capable of playing sports even if they wanted to.
Are you? You specifically said "the kids who go to private schools strictly for academics and never consider playing a sport."
Yes, some don't appear to be capable of playing sports even if they wanted to.
Ok, maybe I should expand this so you understand a little better. I am specifically talking about special needs children.
Yes, and why do you get to pick the only group that doesn't participate in sports? There is another group that also fits that category, but I realize it doesn't help your argument.
Is the argument that the requirement to care for those with special needs creates a financial strain that prevents the public schools from committing as many funds to athletic programs? What is the argument about BEDS numbers contributing to an athletic disadvantage (or lower BEDS numbers creating an athletic advantage)? I'm not seeing the dots to connect, but maybe I'm missing something.
OK, but the school my kids attend (Pella Christian) has about 25 international students this year, and none of them contribute in a meaningful way to any sports team. Because they are students, they count on the BEDS numbers. And, by the way, they also are very willing to accept special needs students, but many select the local public school - an excellent academic option - because of the resources available there.
The international student program is a great extension of the school's mission, and the additional funds probably help a little (although those that host these students get tuition discounts, so I'm not sure it is a significant financial advantage)... but using the same logic it should hurt the school's athletic programs. I don't think that way; I just see them as 25 extra kids at the school.
I blame all the teams/communities that are feeders (or suburbs) of major metropolitan areas in our state..........
Lineage of really tall people that are groomed to be deeply motivated by sports in a very un-rural-like manner...........perhaps?
I'm not going to read that article, but what are the size of those states compared to Iowa?
Face it, public > private.
We win. Stop trying.
Besides Heelan and Xavier, who else? I'd be fascinated to see how that would work.....
After a proper multiplier is put in place I think Xavier will move up to 4A, and Heelan too probably. I'd imagine Regina would be getting close to 3A, but it all depends on what the multiplier is. Some schools may not move up at all. Most multipliers would make for example a small 3A school into just a bigger 3A school, boys' basketball wise. With the 5 classes in the girls' union, teams would move around more. So it just all depends on how big the multiplier and if the student population is up or down.
I think a nice sized multiplier would be a happy medium between making all the private schools have their own class, and continuing to let the like 2 percent of schools that are private win half the state titles.
As I said, most would be surprised with how many special needs kids are in each district. 13 percent in America, I don't know what the numbers are specifically in rural Iowa, but in my experience that's a pretty accurate number.
You mean the 2 percent of all private schools that win State titles (Xavier, Heelan used to, Western, Regina, and Dowling in football). Punish the whole lot for the actions of these few.
Btw, I like how "wishful-thinking" you got with your post.
And remember that Western, as a 2A school in a 1A town (whose public school has won multiple titles too) blows a lot of the "privates aren't fair" arguments out of the water.
Hah! Western does have 1 SD kid enrolled.............but his only sport is rodeo.
(Maybe he was confused and thought a Western school would have more cowboys?)
Similar threads
