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Am I the only one sick of it?

Not sure that was the consensus when Marv was hired. I know there was some differing opinions and sometimes the loudest voices seem to speak for the consensus.
There is no way to prove or disprove your statement about those kids following Drew. What a novel concept, kids wanting to go to school with their friends. Happens every day in every school. The what if game can be played with most situations.
What if they hired Scott and James Morris and Andy Ashton and Jacob Gannon stayed, what if Cade Jones stayed at Regina, what if...what if.what if all kids that had Regina parents went to Regina....it can go on and on.
 
you, and other Regal lovers, continue to bring up Cade Jones' name.

And you all seem to be implying he was recruited to WB, a place where the majority of his family has graduated from.
A place where he attended before ICR and returned to after he decided the experience was not for him.

I cannot disprove the Scott/Morris/Ashton theory you bring up (way to deflect by the way, which is not a surprise. Stray away from the initial post to grind an axe)

What connection does Gannon have to Corey Scott (a Solon graduate)?

Kids going to school with their friends. I get that.
But not all circle of friends have $10,000 to throw around per year. So, in the end, it is an unfair advantage that one school has that many other schools cannot have.
 
I will take the blame on this one. Theres no point of even putting Regina and Recruiting in the same sentence anymore. Cause obviously when a coach takes a job there, they're told not to call it "recruiting". But whats up with the West Branch and Wilton letters. Is that the way you do it? I heard coach Peterson was ever so happy for his son to receive one. I think there called "academic letters". Haha and sure, thats why BIG JOHN received one, for his smarts.
 
Originally posted by GreasedPig75:
I will take the blame on this one. Theres no point of even putting Regina and Recruiting in the same sentence anymore. Cause obviously when a coach takes a job there, they're told not to call it "recruiting". But whats up with the West Branch and Wilton letters. Is that the way you do it? I heard coach Peterson was ever so happy for his son to receive one. I think there called "academic letters". Haha and sure, thats why BIG JOHN received one, for his smarts.
Click to expand...
Nail meet head.

I wonder how many kids at Regina have ever received one of these letters from WB (or any other school around).
My guess for the answer to that: ZERO
 
Originally posted by WBBearsFollower:
you, and other Regal lovers, continue to bring up Cade Jones' name.

And you all seem to be implying he was recruited to WB, a place where the majority of his family has graduated from.
A place where he attended before ICR and returned to after he decided the experience was not for him.

I cannot disprove the Scott/Morris/Ashton theory you bring up (way to deflect by the way, which is not a surprise. Stray away from the initial post to grind an axe)

What connection does Gannon have to Corey Scott (a Solon graduate)?

Kids going to school with their friends. I get that.
But not all circle of friends have $10,000 to throw around per year. So, in the end, it is an unfair advantage that one school has that many other schools cannot have.
Click to expand...
I never implied that Cade was recruited by WB, and yes I am aware that the majority of his family attended WB

Scott/Morris/Ashton/Gannon was not an attempt to deflect rather it shows that the what if game can be played by anyone and can take many forms. Gannon was used as an example of someone who had the majority of his family attend Regina and decide to leave(see Jones, Cade) perhaps he stays if Scott is hired. No axe to grind.

Tuition is less than $10,000 and if I read this board they don't have to worry about tuition since they were all "recruited" and we know that scholarships are there for all football players.

As far as the academic letters go I think they only go out to football players and nobody else and I am sure that they target Wilton and West Branch kids only. They know everybody has a secret love affair with Regina from those schools. Just an FYI that would be a very heavy dose of sarcasm

As far as grinding an axe that is a classic. Read this board, the axe is being thrown directly at one school. Anything that happens at WB is due to family connections and poor WB they only draw from a small population. Which school built a weight room, practice gym etc. Here is a clue, it's not the "rich" private school. Although that private school allowed the FB coach, strength coach, school board etc. to tour their facility and speak to the strength coach about their program. I would be surprised if that same courtesy would be extended if the roles were reversed.

You can put Regina and recruit in the same post, they do it, they have to do it, otherwise they close the school. Maybe you need to ask the question Why do these players choose to spend tuition money to go to a school when they could go to your school for free? If it's true and they travel from all over to go to school at Regina what is an extra 8 miles? So keep grinding your axe, you will notice that my posts usually are in response to a biased opinion presented as fact or a hypothetical that can be presented on many fronts. I look at both sides of the issue and admit the advantages and the disadavantages and post both. Not sure that can be said for the majority of the people that are discrediting the players, coaches and parents.
 
"Because, without Marv Cook on staff, the Regals would not have Drew Cook.
Without Drew Cook, you would lose 3-5 of his former youth basketball and baseball buddies.
So, in other words, these very affluent families would not have chosen for their children to go to ICR"

Just curious, these very "affluent" families you speak of, have you ever spoken to any of them about their decisions to go to Regina? Drew Cook has attended Regina since Kindergarten, long before his father was coach at Regina. Kids in Iowa City play youth sports with kids that attend all schools in the area. My kids played with City High, West High and Regina kids. Give parents credit. There are great athletes at every school in this area. Not one parent sent their kids to Regina because of Marv or Drew Cook. They are great people, but that isn't why someone chooses a school.
 
Why are we throwing around "what ifs" ? What if Marv Cook went to school at Regina? What if Butch Pederson decided to coach somewhere else 30 years ago? playing the what if game is the dumbest thing ever
 
What if Butch had gotten some of the jobs he has applied for recently? I kind of like this, what if Butch retires and goes to Wilton with Lance? What if Lurch takes a job at Regina? What if the sun rises in the West? This could be fun.
 
This discussion is fun.

What would happen if Iowa went to a city-based (non school) club sports system like in Europe?

Recruiting could still happen, but then it would be town vs. town, not Public School A vs. Church School vs. Public School B.
 
even if its 5000 bucks it still proves a point made earlier this year:

private schools are open enrollment for the wealthy.
 
Originally posted by GoEagles23:
even if its 5000 bucks it still proves a point made earlier this year:

private schools are open enrollment for the wealthy.
Click to expand...
Not really true. Private schools often subsidize tuition based on family income so many families pay very little while others pay the full cost.

At the end of the day does it really matter where the students come from or how far their house is located away from the facility? A catholic school has a larger population base because they are only pulling out a fraction of that population. All that really matters is the total number of students enrolled to establish class size. If there is significant evidence to show students are actively recruited and given favors (i.e. discounted tuition) soley because their athletic ability then let's see the evidence otherwise there is no credible argument.
This post was edited on 12/2 4:10 PM by CP84
 
Thank you CP84 for a logical post, I still am baffled at the "draw from larger population" argument. If they have the same amount of kids it doesn't matter theres no difference. Also I went to Regina, there are plenty of low income families, plenty of middle class families, and fair share of wealthy families..sort of like most school districts in the state of Iowa..teachers are the same, and facilities are the same, the only actual advantage is a great coaching staff and student athletes that are willing to put a great amount of work. You can ask many Regina players, they realize how lucky they are to have such a great coaching staff, they don't take it for granted, but you also gotta give the kids credit, they dedicate themselves to the program during the season and in the off season. That is how a dynasty is built and people who don't understand it can keep thinking up of some other crazy excuses to why it happens but it really doesn't matter, this is a high school football message board..youre not making much noise.
 
What letters are you talking about? Is the coaching staff sending letters to other players at other schools? If so post it here..otherwise don't make stuff up.
 
We are not the only state dealing with the same issues, and we surely are not the only state having these same discussions. I wish I had solution to this problem. I researched a few states that are discussing or have recently adapted a multiplier for non-public schools. It is a national problem and many states have already either seperated public and non public athletic tournaments or initiated a multiplier. I truly believe what is happening in IA is not recruiting by defenition. There are many many factors that go into non public schools having an advantage in athletics, too many to even go into. I have discussed some geographic and economic factors in one of the previos
3dgrin.r191677.gif
threads on this topic. The one fact that is never answered by non public supporters is why nearly 40% of all state titles are won by 10% of the schools. The one question I can't answer is why this is a recent trend, say 10-15 years. Its not just Iowa people, these statistics hold true in every single state without a multiplier or segregated championships.

http://www.kansas.com/2010/04/18/1273988/public-private-dilemma-a-common.html

http://blogs.ajc.com/georgia-high-school-sports/2013/04/11/buford-to-face-multiplier-ghsa-to-hear-new-reclass-plan/

http://www.athleticbusiness.com/articles/article.aspx?articleid=3938&zoneid=9

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/sports/2013/03/23/new-plan-keeps-public-private-schools-together.html

http://ernstblog.wordpress.com/tag/multiplier/

One of these articles briefly describes how states determine a multipier. It is based on public school non participation levels. In that state they determined that 35% of public school kids did not participate in extra curriculars, while nearly 100% of non public kids participated, thus a 1.35 multiplier. A simple survey to IA public schools would give us our multiplier.

I know this won't be popular with some, its not meant to offend. The articles contain good information for both sides and there are plentt more that a Google search will provide. Enjoy. Discuss.
 
I am not sure why it is a recent trend. If state.championships are the criteria than multipliers may not be the answer as most states haven't seen a significant decrease in titles won by non public schools.
 
I don't think titles are necisarily the criteria, but some of the states I was looking at indicated the same 40% by 10% stats. KS and OH being the two I remember. Tournament qualifiers was even more lopsided but they didnt show numbers for that. Idaho and Oregon were two other states looking into multipliers for similar reasons. Again, I dont know if there is a right or wrong answer..maybe it is just a trend and no one will be talking about it 5-10 years, but obviously other states seem to think there is some sort of unlevel playing field.
 
Some good information in those articles, I suggest the multiplier crowd takes some time to read up a bit. As far as "many" states going multiplier or separate class, well again my definition of many isn't the.same as is being used by some.
 
If the desired result is making the number of championships won by private schools more proportional than the multiplier doesn't work. Georgia had a multiplier and dropped it because the same schools kept winning, Missouri saw the % of championships won drop from 33.2% all the way down to 33.0%. So instead of beating the same old drum the people who are upset with the situation need to come up with a better mousetrap.
 
To WBBEARSFOLLOWER, et al:

I had to come out of hiding for this. When you start bringing kids into an equation, it is a very touchy and slippery slope. And given a name or two from current West Branch players is being bantered about, I feel it necessary to jump in and end that discussion.

While I could give you a fairly long list of names that I can 138% confirm have received letters from Regina while attending WB (and have now graduated HS and/or college), that is not the issue at hand.

A poster brought up the name of Big Jon (St John), who is a current 6'3, 270 pound 2-way starter for West Branch. He was named a 2014 team captain by his teammates, which is an honor for any kid.

Having spoken with Coach Pedersen directly, I can confirm without question that Jon St John has NOT received a 'letter of academics' or any communication from Regina HS. Again, while I have been very outspoken in the past re: my feelings on private vs public, I will not let somebody run a WB kid, and another school (Regina), through the mud with propaganda.

Regina is tied for the NATION'S current longest win streak with Ithaca, Michigan. That team just won their 56th game in a row and 4th consecutive title this past weekend.

So, to review:

a) No letter to Big Jon
b) Regina had a great season

No need to "grind an axe" on this.
Applaud the Regals on a good season and great accomplishment.

But, you can bet one thing: this is not me cheering for them to extend the record very far. Especially if they are in 1A for the next 2 years. I actually think they will be in 2A, just a hunch.

I will never feel, however, that the playing field is level (even when I know most are crowned, which is a coincidence). Old habits die hard, ya know.

Be well, all.

I am still reading most of what you all post. It has been enjoyable, on the whole.

Blame It

PS - GoEagles23: congrats on taking over the BCMoore torch. Somebody needed to. :)

This post was edited on 12/3 8:59 AM by BlameIt
 
It is my understanding that Missouri has a multiplier for its private schools. But it only applies to those that are All Boy institutions which makes sense.
 
Hopefully when the districts come out in a couple months all of this nonsense will be done and we can actually talk football like the good ole days..like when Solon and Harlan were winning 40+ games in a row ;)
 
Originally posted by pribs36:
Hopefully when the districts come out in a couple months all of this nonsense will be done and we can actually talk football like the good ole days..like when Solon and Harlan were winning 40+ games in a row ;)
Click to expand...
Exactly. I'll bet no one was complaining when Solon won 4 titles in a row and West Branch, Harlan, Emmetsburg, A-P, etc. were winning all the time.
Oh well, the record has been set. The Titles are in the books.

And, the rest of 1A can pray that Regina moves up and a worse team has a chance to win their class next year.
 
Pribs, stick to them condescending posts...they really serve you well. If you think all of this discussion is solely based on ICR and their streak you need to wake up.This isnt a one school or one sport issue. Here is an example...I recently saw a picture of a Western Christian homecoming court. There were kids from several different cities and four different states. The ability to pull from those kinds of distances would be incredible.
 
Blame, welcome back, your insights(no matter how misguided
smile.r191677.gif
) have been missed on the board. I hope this means that you will return on a more consistent basis.
 
I sensed more sarcasm than condescenion with Pribs post and perhaps a jab that dominant public school teams don't face the same scrutiny as private schools.

This is a legit question, do the public schools on the borders have students from outside the state? How does open enrollment work for that? or do they have to reside in Iowa?
 
Originally posted by IronFist:
Multiplier! If the private schools are ok with it then why not?
Click to expand...
OMG if this all that is needed to stop this inane arguing about public vs non public........ then I am all for it. But I doubt that this debate will ever end, if the statistics are correct then the % of Championships won by non public schools has not changed since the multiplier was started. So undoubtedly there will be more complaining.
 
Originally posted by cidhawkeye:
Shadow, I respectfully disagree with you on this point. That 2010 defense(with Grimm) was one for the ages. Solon did score the only TD the starters gave up that year on a 30 yard field. Without Grimm that defense would have been one of the better ones as well. On offense replace Grimm with Vollstedt like they did in the championship game and the result is most likely the same.
Click to expand...
I did a little research - sounds like Grimm made a difference. Vollstedt (as you mention) wasn't even above Grimm for yardage. Halsch had 84 yds and Grimm 61. I would agree that if Grimm and watching that game made an impact on both sides of the ball, especially on the last drive to run the clock nearly out.

The third of Koehn's three field goals ? a 23-yarder with 2:30 left ? got the Spartans back with six. But the Regals powered the ball with fullback Berkley Grimm, who carried the ball five straight times and pick up a first down. Regina punted the ball with 15 seconds left, and the Spartans couldn't do anything with it.
"This is amazing," Grimm said. "I respect Solon so much. I'm 40 pounds heavier than I was last year, and I have to credit (strength and conditioning coach) Alex Kanellis."
How does a kid gain 40 pounds in one year (heck most Iowa guys can't do that)?

Pine - I agree that Solon doesn't beat Decorah without Black.
 
Perhaps Vollstedt didn't get above Grimm in yardage because Grimm was the starter and Vollstedt was the backup? Grimm had the huge stop on 3rd down in that game and was the hammer at the end of that game. Watching that game the OL was the deciding factor in the end. 40 pounds is a big number to gain in a calendar year, some gain that much most go in the 15-25 range from 16-17-18.
 
IAHSFB- Congrats you said something completely irrelevant to this post, although I have never heard of Western Christian I highly doubt that a school I have never heard of is getting kids from 4 different states..I don't know where the school is located I am curious to what states these are, even if it is somehow true it still has nothing to do with football because from what I know this school doesn't even have a football team, and instead of throwing useless info out why don't you answer to what my post was sarcastically pointing out..but just to inform you anyway all the public schools in the Iowa Cit area (even the small rural schools) have had more kids open enroll and impact athletics then transfers Regina has in the past 5 years and I am sure CID and company would love to give you examples. So for the last time I am happy to keep debating on the issue but youre going to have to give us something better then recruiting, if a good coaching staff is an unfair advantage then yes Regina has one.
 
I think you need to re-read some of my previous posts, or at least read closer. I do not think our non public schools are recruiting. I think the advantages non public schools have go way deeper than that.I even hinted that I may be wrong and and the non public dominance is nothing more than a trend. Your obvious lack of knowledge of Iowa high schools makes me wonder why I respond to you. I have already stated that this problem goes beyond football. Western Christian is in NWIA, a stones throw from SD, NE, & MN. They have been a powerhouse volleyball and basketball school for as long as I can remember. Multiple titles. The homecoming article that was submitted to Bernie Saggau several years ago to try to convince him of the advantages of non publics in GBB and volleyball. The students discuss coming to WC in order to compete, it does not say what states they resided while school, just the states they came from in order to compete. Like I said before, if the majority of the country has decided that some sort of segregation our multiplier is viable, there must be something there.grow up young man, have a discussion like an adult. The smug internet tough guy thing isn't working for you.

This post was edited on 12/4 9:44 AM by IAHSFBALL
 
Originally posted by Pinehawk:


Originally posted by pribs36:
Hopefully when the districts come out in a couple months all of this nonsense will be done and we can actually talk football like the good ole days..like when Solon and Harlan were winning 40+ games in a row ;)
Click to expand...
Exactly. I'll bet no one was complaining when Solon won 4 titles in a row and West Branch, Harlan, Emmetsburg, A-P, etc. were winning all the time.
Oh well, the record has been set. The Titles are in the books.

And, the rest of 1A can pray that Regina moves up and a worse team has a chance to win their class next year.
Click to expand...
Solon's enrollment took care of the complaining by bumping them up a class or did you forget that part?
 
Wouldn't it be better to have all schools have a participation multiplier when figuring class levels. Some of the same advantages that non publics have, schools in growing suburban areas have also. If the participation was factored in would that make an overall better balance?
 
I am not sure how most of the private schools do it with bussing now. Western Christian used to send a bus from Hull to Hartley, over 30 miles, to pick kids up. Maybe that has changed and they and other private schools no longer do that. That is or what used to be different from open enrollment. They have no school district boundaries that they have to stay within.
 
Originally posted by OtherWiseGinger:

Originally posted by Pinehawk:



Originally posted by pribs36:
Hopefully when the districts come out in a couple months all of this nonsense will be done and we can actually talk football like the good ole days..like when Solon and Harlan were winning 40+ games in a row ;)
Click to expand...
Exactly. I'll bet no one was complaining when Solon won 4 titles in a row and West Branch, Harlan, Emmetsburg, A-P, etc. were winning all the time.
Oh well, the record has been set. The Titles are in the books.

And, the rest of 1A can pray that Regina moves up and a worse team has a chance to win their class next year.
Click to expand...
Solon's enrollment took care of the complaining by bumping them up a class or did you forget that part?
Click to expand...
What's your point?

Pine is right. When public school have long runs of success nobody says anything. When private schools do, issues of recruiting and applied multipliers get brought up. The bottom line is there is no inherent advantage. All schools public and private are assigned to their class based on enrollement figures.
 
Originally posted by rushtoexcellence:
I am not sure how most of the private schools do it with bussing now. Western Christian used to send a bus from Hull to Hartley, over 30 miles, to pick kids up. Maybe that has changed and they and other private schools no longer do that. That is or what used to be different from open enrollment. They have no school district boundaries that they have to stay within.
Click to expand...
If private schools had defined districts like public schools they would all be playing 8 man football or be in one room school houses. Someone made the argument earlier that West Branch has a district that has 120,000 residents.

That argument carries no weight because it's not an apples to apples comparison. Unless WB residents go to a private school they all go to WB school system. Regina is only pulling a small fraction of there surrounding community. If Regina had to have a similar district to WB they'd probably have 30 kids in the entire high school.

The only thing that matters at the end of the day is total enrollment. It doesn't make a difference how far the students had to drive.
 
Originally posted by CP84:

Originally posted by OtherWiseGinger:


Originally posted by Pinehawk:




Originally posted by pribs36:
Hopefully when the districts come out in a couple months all of this nonsense will be done and we can actually talk football like the good ole days..like when Solon and Harlan were winning 40+ games in a row ;)
Click to expand...
Exactly. I'll bet no one was complaining when Solon won 4 titles in a row and West Branch, Harlan, Emmetsburg, A-P, etc. were winning all the time.
Oh well, the record has been set. The Titles are in the books.

And, the rest of 1A can pray that Regina moves up and a worse team has a chance to win their class next year.
Click to expand...
Solon's enrollment took care of the complaining by bumping them up a class or did you forget that part?
Click to expand...
What's your point?

Pine is right. When public school have long runs of success nobody says anything. When private schools do, issues of recruiting and applied multipliers get brought up. The bottom line is there is no inherent advantage. All schools public and private are assigned to their class based on enrollement figures.
Click to expand...
Did you fail to read my post - "THE COMPLAINING WAS TAKEN CARE OF BY ENROLLMENT BUMPING SOLON UP".
So people were complaining trust me!

The only advantage that I can see privates having is being selective - if litttle Johnny that is a thug and does not play sports and could care less about academics, is in trouble all the time applies to Private School A they have the ability to deny. If same kid moves into Public School B's district - they have no choice, they must accept them. When that happens at the rate of 10+ per class the enrollment goes up, etc.
 
Originally posted by CP84:
If private schools had defined districts like public schools they would all be playing 8 man football or be in one room school houses. Someone made the argument earlier that West Branch has a district that has




Thanks for helping the public school cause, broski.
Click to expand...
 
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