The surface is better, not great but far better. Now the fact that they play with new footballs... thank$ boy$ in Boone
Realignment Classifications
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The surface is better, not great but far better. Now the fact that they play with new footballs... thank$ boy$ in Boone
One possibility I’ve heard (not officially, just gossip-wise): If 4A has 16 qualifiers and the other classes have 32, 4A would continue with a 9-game season while the rest of the schools play 8. So Week 9 would be the first round playoffs for 3A/2A/1A/A/8-player while 4A plays their final regular season game.
Also, much of the push for expanding the playoff field comes from some real strange outliers, such as 8-1 Sigourney-Keota not making the 1A playoffs last year. It turned out their non-district schedule was incredibly weak (not necessarily their fault) which led to an RPI that ranked 20th in the class, despite losing just one game, to the district champion.
I tend to agree with the people saying the 17-32 seeds would have no shot at a state championship. I have that same argument with people who want to expand the NCAA playoffs to 16 or 32 or (god forbid) 64. But on the other hand, a system that excludes an 8-1 squad isn’t perfect, either.
Just my opinion: I think 32 is too many. It’s workable schedule-wise only if you cut the regular season to 8 games, which I’m not in favor of unless you can guarantee a 9th game for non-qualifiers.
Sixteen is okay. That works with the present schedule and a 9-game season.
Ideally I’d like 24, but that means byes for the top 8, and the IHSAA has been quite firm in their insistence against byes in the past. And that also introduces scheduling problems as far as 8 or 9 regular season games, unless (as with 32) you guaranteed non-qualifiers a 9th game. But I really don’t see a path where the IHSAA would allow a bye week for playoff teams.
I tend to agree with the people saying the 17-32 seeds would have no shot at a state championship. I have that same argument with people who want to expand the NCAA playoffs to 16 or 32 or (god forbid) 64. But on the other hand, a system that excludes an 8-1 squad isn’t perfect, either.
Just my opinion: I think 32 is too many. It’s workable schedule-wise only if you cut the regular season to 8 games, which I’m not in favor of unless you can guarantee a 9th game for non-qualifiers.
Sixteen is okay. That works with the present schedule and a 9-game season.
Ideally I’d like 24, but that means byes for the top 8, and the IHSAA has been quite firm in their insistence against byes in the past. And that also introduces scheduling problems as far as 8 or 9 regular season games, unless (as with 32) you guaranteed non-qualifiers a 9th game. But I really don’t see a path where the IHSAA would allow a bye week for playoff teams.
They were 16th in the final RPI. Having a pair of one-win teams in their district didn't help matters any. Their eight non-Mediapolis opponents were a combined 17-56. Had they been just 23-50 instead, I figure S-K would likely have been in.
Yep, faulty memory (even though I had just looked it up). Sixteen RPI but a district champ below them.
And yes, their opponents (outside Mediapolis) were awful, record-wise. I mean, how can you play 8 teams with an average record of 2-7?
That killed Nevada, too. Six opponents (3 district, 3 ND) with a combined mark of 9-45. Only three more wins total from that group would have put Nevada in at 7-2.
And I would say that you would be wrong about some of the 3 or 4 seeds. Of having a chance at a title. Are they favorites? Nope. Is it going to happen every year? Nope. But there are examples of teams from the past.
Hinton in 2012 was the 3 seed from their district, it ultimately made a ru to the state championship game, losing 21-14.
Newell-Fonda started 2014 0-3. They went on to win their next 11 games and a state title. While they were a 2 seed from their district that year, no way they make the playoffs under today’s rules.
The Association is on vacation the entire week if Thanksgiving and does not want to change that for games on the weekend after Thanksgiving or possibly games on Monday and Tuesday before Thanksgiving.
But, but, but... I thought it wa$ all about the kid$.
Anyone with knowledge when the classes will be released? Coming this week I’d have to guess right?
An 8-game football season could be the first domino, given the below excerpt:
https://www.thegazette.com/subject/...-ears-x2014-and-eyes-x2014-wide-open-20190528
He is looking for suggestions to “create some breaks.”
An Iowa high school athlete could go from fall sport (football, volleyball) right into a winter sport (basketball, wrestling) with little or no break. Spring sports start while winter sports are wrapping up and, in Iowa, baseball and softball are in the summer and get cranking about the same time as the state track and field meet.
Football and volleyball have camps during the final weeks of baseball and softball.
“Kids are exhausted,” Keating said. “We have to figure out a way to give them a break.”
https://www.thegazette.com/subject/...-ears-x2014-and-eyes-x2014-wide-open-20190528
He is looking for suggestions to “create some breaks.”
An Iowa high school athlete could go from fall sport (football, volleyball) right into a winter sport (basketball, wrestling) with little or no break. Spring sports start while winter sports are wrapping up and, in Iowa, baseball and softball are in the summer and get cranking about the same time as the state track and field meet.
Football and volleyball have camps during the final weeks of baseball and softball.
“Kids are exhausted,” Keating said. “We have to figure out a way to give them a break.”
I believe we will hear something this week as far as classification and then that should tell us possibly how many districts in each class. I know the 4A coaches and ADs met with the state assoc last week witch was the hold up to getting things out. I dont see any major changes as far as adding a class or anything that pertains to enrollment because time is short right now. However I think after this next cycle you will see big changes with classifications and how they determine the numbers. The only thing I see change this time around is the state going with the coaches and ADs recommendation and that was to get back to 32 teams in the post season in all classes except 4A. To do this in the time frame the state will allow it will be an 8 game sched with week 9 being the first round of the playoffs so everything can stay on fri nights. What is yet to be determined to my understanding is will the teams that don't make the playoffs still get a 9th game if they so choose. Some will want to play and some will just want their season to be done and move on to the next sport.
Then reduce the number of regular-season games in all other seasons and limit the number of post-season qualifiers in all other sports...like football already does. This will be the only way to give kids a break between seasons.
I say this because reducing the football regular season to 8 games and increasing the playoffs to 32 qualifiers will not change the length of the football season at all.
But no...let's attack football only and reduce their regular season by 11% so an 0-21 basketball team or an 3-29 baseball team can start "post-season play".
I guess the question is, where's the sweet spot of getting all the 8-1/7-2 teams in, without expanding the field so much that you end up with 1-8 Mason City making the playoffs? (Yes, I know that was another weird outlier and a class with fewer than 50 teams shouldn't have ever had 32 playoff qualifiers.)
That's why I think 24 makes sense. You're almost certain to get all the teams with fewer than 3 losses in the playoffs, without those 25-32 seeds. You can't make that work without byes in there for some teams somewhere, though - that's a problem.
Your choices are:
So I don't know how to solve it. I think 16 works okay most of the time, but there are obviously deserving teams left out (and most of the coaches seem to think 16 isn't enough). Thirty-two seems like too many, but if that's the only way to get every deserving team in without the complications of byes, I guess that's the direction coaches want to go in.
That's why I think 24 makes sense. You're almost certain to get all the teams with fewer than 3 losses in the playoffs, without those 25-32 seeds. You can't make that work without byes in there for some teams somewhere, though - that's a problem.
Your choices are:
- The top 8 seeds get a first round bye. Seeds 9-24 play the first round, with the winners traveling to the teams that had a first-round bye for the second round, and the following quarterfinals/semifinals/championship play out normally.
- All 24 play in the first round; the top 4 seeds remaining get a second-round bye, with the remaining 8 teams playing that week. The teams with a bye then host in the quarterfinals, with the semifinals and championships to follow as usual.
- All 24 play in the first round, and the 12 remaining play in the second round. Now the top 2 seeds left get a free pass to the semifinals, with the other 4 playing each other for the chance to go to the Dome.
- All 24 play the first round, the 12 winners play in the second round, and those 6 winners play in the quarterfinals. That leaves you with three - the top seed takes a week off before moving on to the championship, with the other two playing one semifinal game to advance.
So I don't know how to solve it. I think 16 works okay most of the time, but there are obviously deserving teams left out (and most of the coaches seem to think 16 isn't enough). Thirty-two seems like too many, but if that's the only way to get every deserving team in without the complications of byes, I guess that's the direction coaches want to go in.
To me the 16 vs 32 comes down to the haves vs. the have nots. If you are a school that year in and out makes the playoffs you want 16, because you already have an established program. If you are a struggling program you want 32. Why? Because a playoff qualification means something, even if you are going to probably lose in the first round it means something, you can print shirts you get a banner, and it builds excitement. So many schools are struggling to get kids out for football for various reasons, injuries, it's a hard sports, but also that so many don't see the point if they are going to see the reward. I am not a participation trophy type of guy, but I also know that if I could have had one more game my senior year I would have taken it no questions asked, and I can confidently say that my team would of had a chance to pull an upset depending on the match up. I think that is what having more teams does, brings some excitement to football and gives a chance at another game.
Another option I wonder about is if a Minnesota or Missouri model would work well in Iowa.
- At the beginning of each season all schools are put into a class and a district (these can change every year)
-Play an 8 game regular season schedule of any teams that you would like to, you can play the teams in your district but you don't necessarily have to.
-At the end of the regular season the teams in each district are giving a seed within their district, some teams get a bye.
-The 8 district champs per state make the "state playoffs"
Essentially it is the way that we do it for every other sport, being a district champ is a big deal, everyone gets 9 games, and the teams who are going to make the deep runs should have more rest.
Just an idea.
Another option I wonder about is if a Minnesota or Missouri model would work well in Iowa.
- At the beginning of each season all schools are put into a class and a district (these can change every year)
-Play an 8 game regular season schedule of any teams that you would like to, you can play the teams in your district but you don't necessarily have to.
-At the end of the regular season the teams in each district are giving a seed within their district, some teams get a bye.
-The 8 district champs per state make the "state playoffs"
Essentially it is the way that we do it for every other sport, being a district champ is a big deal, everyone gets 9 games, and the teams who are going to make the deep runs should have more rest.
Just an idea.
I think you are underscoring what it means physically on those kids when they get beat by 50 in football compared to the same margin of loss in the other sports.
QUOTE="troutstamp1, post: 182356, member: 4956"]Whats the ave score in the 1st rd of the baseball and basketball post season games, or the wrestling post season sectionls of the 1 seed vs the 8 seed or that track kid who is slow but is in a heat for the right to move on or that golfer who regularly puts up bogeys but is right in the hunt in the post season. Every single game in football is a sectional or district championship game because if you happen to lose just once or twice your season hopes could be over based on a sched you cant control. the bottom line is even 32 teams is not letting everyone in. People keep saying well football is different, how, its played by the exact same high school teenagers as all the other sports. the only thing thats different football cant have poor games or get away with early season injuries because unlike all other sports every single game matters just to get to the postseason.[/QUOTE]
QUOTE="troutstamp1, post: 182356, member: 4956"]Whats the ave score in the 1st rd of the baseball and basketball post season games, or the wrestling post season sectionls of the 1 seed vs the 8 seed or that track kid who is slow but is in a heat for the right to move on or that golfer who regularly puts up bogeys but is right in the hunt in the post season. Every single game in football is a sectional or district championship game because if you happen to lose just once or twice your season hopes could be over based on a sched you cant control. the bottom line is even 32 teams is not letting everyone in. People keep saying well football is different, how, its played by the exact same high school teenagers as all the other sports. the only thing thats different football cant have poor games or get away with early season injuries because unlike all other sports every single game matters just to get to the postseason.[/QUOTE]
Back for another bite, clearly 8-1 & 7-2 teams would usually make the PO’s (even under the current system) in addition to several 6-3. If not, and there’s 4-5 teams making it over the 8-1 then there’s a serious issue with the RPI...so change the RPI calculation, don’t just expand the field and in the process hose the whole system.
If you go to 32 teams in 4A, you’re talking about 76% making it...yippie, dangerously close to a participation trophy.
If you go to 32 teams in 4A, you’re talking about 76% making it...yippie, dangerously close to a participation trophy.
In reality all that needs fixed is the RPI formula and having 8 districts instead of 9. Your wins count more than opponents wins that count more than opponents opponents wins. But hey that would be too simple and logical IMHO.
The answer is pretty simple in football you have to qualify based on your regular season record, in all other sports the regular season doessnt matter because everyone is in to start with. Football regular seasons are everyone else's districts or regional finals to get to state.
They could go back to the top 4 from each district match up with the top 4 from another and 1s play 4s from opposite district, 2s vs 3s from opposite districts. It gives at least some hope of playing a 10th game and making some of the games latter in the season more meaningful in terms of being in the playoff or seeding.
Missouri has it to where all district teams are guaranteed that 10th game with week 10 being the first round of the playoffs playing teams within your district. This did lead to a long season with the title games being played the first weekend in December, which is fine with most...the more football the better.
Missouri has it to where all district teams are guaranteed that 10th game with week 10 being the first round of the playoffs playing teams within your district. This did lead to a long season with the title games being played the first weekend in December, which is fine with most...the more football the better.
We could be like Texas and have 6 rounds for the PO’s with 64 teams making it in (and it’s not just the larger schools which do this), their championship games finished the weekend before Christmas...sounds like fun.
note: sarcasm
Although thinking about how it seems others are letting the venue dictate the PO format, no reason to have semifinals at the Dome or even the finals. Why not rotate between Kinnick & Jack Trice.
note: sarcasm
Although thinking about how it seems others are letting the venue dictate the PO format, no reason to have semifinals at the Dome or even the finals. Why not rotate between Kinnick & Jack Trice.
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First off never question Texas when it comes to high school football, they are second to none when it comes to high school football.
Secondly if we are planning on going with 16 teams for 4A and 32 for the other classes to me it makes the most sense to go with 40 teams for 4A and then 56 for 3A, 2A, 1A, the remaining schools for A and then have your 8 man class. With that have 8 districts per class. I don't know in 4A if I would go with 8- 5 team districts or 5-8 team districts.
Secondly if we are planning on going with 16 teams for 4A and 32 for the other classes to me it makes the most sense to go with 40 teams for 4A and then 56 for 3A, 2A, 1A, the remaining schools for A and then have your 8 man class. With that have 8 districts per class. I don't know in 4A if I would go with 8- 5 team districts or 5-8 team districts.
I agree. The State will go to 24 team playoffs for 3A and below starting next year.
Well done for doing the right thing, IAHSAA!
Well done for doing the right thing, IAHSAA!
I agree. The State will go to 24 team playoffs for 3A and below starting next year.
Well done for doing the right thing, IAHSAA!
That would be news if true as that wasn't even recommended to the state meaning 24 teams. So unless they went on their own like the last time with throwing the RPI in without any knowledge to the coaches association have to wait and see.
Obviously, I only report facts.
It's just a matter of whether the IAHSAA acts on the facts I have provided them..........
It's just a matter of whether the IAHSAA acts on the facts I have provided them..........
I think the only thing we may hear today or tomorrow is classifications, nothing about playoffs or districts.
Well basketball districts are to come out tomorrow, so if classes aren’t released today I have a hard time seeing them coming out the same time as basketball.
I saw that and would guess that it has no effect on the meeting. It's not like they can wait forever for the investigation to be done before making decisions.
Classifications should be released today or tomorrow. 5A will happen either this cycle or next depending on how the BOC votes today. My hunch is 5A will be shelved until next cycle so they can both kick the can a little more and also have more time to decide the best way to make it happen. I've been hearing that if/when 5A is created, the teams in 5A will be determined using a free and reduced multiplier and the multiplier would not be used for other classes.
