Random Idea

[PNation]

I was talking with a friend this past weekend about redistricting, and the parochial school topic came up. In talking we came up with an idea that I don't think is the worst thing ever. What we came up with is that if a parochial school is in the top 1/3 of schools by enrollment in a classification then they get bumped up a class. For example if the gazette numbers are correct Wahlert, Kuemper, Columbus, Western Christian and Beckman would all move up a class. I am not saying it is a fix-all solution just an idea.

This doesn't address socioeconomic issues, but it was an idea that I thought I would throw out there.

 

[Pinehawk]

What about all the well off small public schools surrounding the bigger cities? Same thing?
They are good for the same reasons.

 

[PNation]

That's what I meant with the socioeconomic issues, I wouldn't mind seeing Van Meter, Treynor and Solon all up a class. Maybe there is a clause for schools with less than 20% free and reduced, and parochial schools.

 

[nwmsbearcat]

That's what I meant with the socioeconomic issues, I wouldn't mind seeing Van Meter, Treynor and Solon all up a class. Maybe there is a clause for schools with less than 20% free and reduced, and parochial schools.

So then all schools in a suburban setting should be moved up a class or is it just the programs who have success? Explain this to me, why is Solon so good but CCA or hasn't experienced the same success? Why has Van Meter been very good while ADM or B-F or North Polk haven't experienced the same success? Why is Treynor good in just about all sports but not Missouri Valley or Tri-Center? Pretty slippery slope to start down when you start doing that...imho.

 

[PNation]

Solon's Free and Reduced rate is around 10% and CCA's is 27%, Van Meter is playing 1A while the other 3 schools are 3A schools and B-F and North Polk have only recently moved up to 3A, but I think in time they will have success. Treynor has a free and reduced rate of around 10% and Tri Center's is 30% and Missouri Valley's is 40%. Also like I said, not moving up everyone, just those who are in the top 1/3 of their class.

 

[LincolntwspFarmer]

Or - athletes who go to a parochial school with "free" tuition - might could be a determining factor - memories of Sioux City Heelan and a certain player who - - - - - - oh well, that was a long time ago. Not that it mattered that a kid's dad contributed big buck$ and other equipment to a program - at least that was what was known.

 

[TheVegvisir]

Or - athletes who go to a parochial school with "free" tuition - might could be a determining factor - memories of Sioux City Heelan and a certain player who - - - - - - oh well, that was a long time ago. Not that it mattered that a kid's dad contributed big buck$ and other equipment to a program - at least that was what was known.

Do we also discuss public schools who get a number of open enrollees who also tend to be good athletes?

 

[nwmsbearcat]

Do we also discuss public schools who get a number of open enrollees who also tend to be good athletes?

So who would you be referrring to?

 

[TheVegvisir]

Over the years? WSR, Bettendorf, Ballard (in more than 1 sport), Sioux City East, Sioux City North, Denver, Van Meter, Valley, Danville, Ankeny, Martensdale St Mary’sto name a few.

This was / is a big issue in numerous sports. I could have also stated not only open enrollment but public districts who have Families move in specifically for sports

 

[Reasoned]

If families decide to go through the time and expense of moving into another district (open enroll by “the book”), or pay for private school tuition for their children’s education or athletic opportunities, then so be it.

 

[nwmsbearcat]

And what is the problem when districts have had open enrollment closed for years, but still get criticized for continuing to have success? It couldn't be because their athletes are committed to the process and work hard. That would make too much sense.

 

[TheVegvisir]

And what is the problem when districts have had open enrollment closed for years, but still get criticized for continuing to have success? It couldn't be because their athletes are committed to the process and work hard. That would make too much sense.

That happens too and those schools are certainly doing things the right way. Which of the schools I mentioned are you affiliated with?

 

[MepoDawg#]

If families decide to go through the time and expense of moving into another district (open enroll by “the book”), or pay for private school tuition for their children’s education or athletic opportunities, then so be it.

Moving into a district and open enrollment are entirely different.

 

[Reasoned]

Moving into a district and open enrollment are entirely different.

This is true, yet they are both “legal” and permissible, so people need to quit complaining about their schools lack of competitiveness and either figure out how to get their athletes more competitive or accept the current state of things. If schools are proven to be “recruiting” (which is fascinating because unless you can offer free tuition, what exactly are they promising a HS athlete) then they should face punishment. Now schools with lopsided enrollment advantages (probably only applies to 5A) is an entirely different matter.

 

[cidhawkeye]

‘Moving’ can be done in several ways, some more legit than others.

 

[Reasoned]

‘Moving’ can be done in several ways, some more legit than others.

True, and this year’s unique situation with the “Covid season” highlighted that. Some schools sent a strong message to families wanting to escape a shutdown state that they had to legitimately “relocate” and not just “temporarily” move. Curious, does anyone know if state champion Ankeny’s athlete Bruce’s family is still in the Ankeny district?

 

[PNation]

Arland himself has enrolled at Iowa

 

[Reasoned]

And his family?

 

[CalmHawk]

The issue with inner city 1A private schools is what I have. I mean look at St Alberts and Grandview for example. 1A and pull in an insane amount of athletes and never have down years, especially in BBall. If you have a talent pool of kids in your area which is surrounded by 4A schools. You will always be good. SES is also a huge contributor. Look at who these schools have move in from year to year. It is legal, but the playing field is not leveled because anyone can open enroll. Especially to rural districts with low population bases and high percentages of SES...... Families are not beating down the door to attend those places.

 

[MepoDawg#]

And his family?

Thought it was said his brothers would be coming after the semester or maybe the school year. Don’t know and don’t really care.

 

[Reasoned]

Thought it was said his brothers would be coming after the semester or maybe the school year. Don’t know and don’t really care.

Well the answer to my question strikes right at the center of the matter, if a transfers family does indeed “relocate” permanently, then they have fulfilled the spirit of the IHSAA rules concerning transfer eligibility.

 

[CalmHawk]

Well the answer to my question strikes right at the center of the matter, if a transfers family does indeed “relocate” permanently, then they have fulfilled the spirit of the IHSAA rules concerning transfer eligibility.

was he the first to bend this rule?

 

[Reasoned]

was he the first to bend this rule?

Not sure if he bent the rule or not, I have no personal knowledge of his family’s residency situation but I know (after watching Ankeny in the PO’s) were he not on their roster they probably don’t win a championship. As for being the only student athlete to have a family member help “bend” transfer rules...I’m sure not.

 

[CalmHawk]

Not sure if he bent the rule or not, I have no personal knowledge of his family’s residency situation but I know (after watching Ankeny in the PO’s) were he not on their roster they probably don’t win a championship. As for being the only student athlete to have a family member help “bend” transfer rules...I’m sure not.

The issue is that he is not close to the only one that has bent the rules. And will not be the last. If the rules were black and white it would be easy. But the IHSAA has left a lot of gray area.

 

[Reasoned]

The issue is that he is not close to the only one that has bent the rules (to any degree). And will not be the last. If the rules were black and white it would be easy. But the IHSAA has left a lot of gray area.

Agreed. It wasn’t until this last year’s FB transfer parade began that it precipitated a review of the IHSAA transfer rules. Interesting thing is the IHSAA would prefer not having to wade into the controversy and leave it up to the districts to police their own. Which is fine until someone files suit because the decision of a benefiting district (of questionable transfer) is at odds with complaining neighboring district or another entity. Yes, the current rules may be a little vague (although the spirit of the rules are rather clear) and because of last year’s controversies I’m surprised the IHSAA hasn’t published updated, clear transfer rules...perhaps it’s in the works.

 

[CalmHawk]

Agreed. It wasn’t until this last year’s FB transfer parade began that it precipitated a review of the IHSAA transfer rules. Interesting thing is the IHSAA would prefer not having to wade into the controversy and leave it up to the districts to police their own. Which is fine until someone files suit because the decision of a benefiting district (of questionable transfer) is at odds with complaining neighboring district or another entity. Yes, the current rules may be a little vague (although the spirit of the rules are rather clear) and because of last year’s controversies I’m surprised the IHSAA hasn’t published updated, clear transfer rules...perhaps it’s in the works.

Agreed. If Bruce was not such a high profile guy, this would not have been an issue at all. In a way he brought it all to the forefront and I think that is a good thing with the way things are done with HS sports in Iowa.

 

[Reasoned]

Yeah, the super slinger, the CA DB and other additions to Valley didn’t get the job done for them (did those transfers finish out the season with eligibility?). If memory serves me, we know Bruce was huge for Ankeny, SEP (the runner up) also picked up a transfer or two, correct? And perennial power Dowling got a couple of in-season transfers from DSM, in addition to out of state (all three schools were in the semifinals), doesn’t hurt to be a recipient of quality transfers...unless you’re the kid that gets bumped.

 

[studman1]

Saw that Ames, Marhalltown, Fort Dodge, Mason City, Ottumwa and the Des Moines schools are leaving the CIML to

 

[denverhawkfan]

Over the years? WSR, Bettendorf, Ballard (in more than 1 sport), Sioux City East, Sioux City North, Denver, Van Meter, Valley, Danville, Ankeny, Martensdale St Mary’sto name a few.

This was / is a big issue in numerous sports. I could have also stated not only open enrollment but public districts who have Families move in specifically for sports

What athletes in recent years have open enrolled to Denver out of curiosity? I mean I can think of a couple wrestlers that graduated 6 or so years ago but they still went to Denver their whole life so not like they did it during high school years.

 

[Reasoned]

Saw that Ames, Marhalltown, Fort Dodge, Mason City, Ottumwa and the Des Moines schools are leaving the CIML to

form their own conference. Can’t blame them, why get the snot knocked out of you by the Capital City suburban schools with larger enrollments (setting aside the DSM schools) and wallets. There’s 19 schools in the CIML, this will make it 10 (the breakaways) & 9 (the remaining schools), makes more sense numbers wise.

 

[PNation]

I don't know why Mason City, Fort Dodge, Marshalltown and Ames don't join Cedar Falls, Waterloo East, Waterloo West and Waverly Shell Rock. Geographically that makes so much sense.


I think overall we need to look at all (or at least most) of the conferences in the state.

 

[DodgerAlum]

I don't know why Mason City, Fort Dodge, Marshalltown and Ames don't join Cedar Falls, Waterloo East, Waterloo West and Waverly Shell Rock. Geographically that makes so much sense.


I think overall we need to look at all (or at least most) of the conferences in the state.

I think the biggest obstacle there is Cedar Falls. From what I have heard, they won't want to leave the Mississippi Valley. I am guessing West and East get treated like FD and MC in the CIML. But CF did go into that league, they would be the "Valley" of that conference for sure. With football off the table, that arrangement makes sense. WSR would be competitive in most sports in that league.

 

[PNation]

Also as I think was mentioned earlier I don't get Ottumwa not being in the Southeastern Iowa Conference, that would leave the 5 DSM schools, not really sure what to do with them.

 

[wolverine55]

I do know Ottumwa has tried to get in the Southeast conference before. I don't know it ever came to a vote or not or was maybe even shutdown before it got that far.

 

[studman1]

i heard the se conference wants ottumwa as well but some of the ciml schools said they wouldnt schedule ottumwa if they left

 

[DodgerAlum]

I have also heard Ottumwa is reluctant to join because of the size of some of the schools.

 

[CalmHawk]

If Ottumwa left, would it be far fetched to attach the Council Bluffs schools to the CIML? Then that leaves the Missouri River in weird spot. Not sure how you shuffle things around and not screw up the whole state lol.

 

[PNation]

The Council Bluffs schools are happy where they are, Lewis Central not being the Missouri River Conference is the puzzling part of that situation.

 

[CalmHawk]

The Council Bluffs schools are happy where they are, Lewis Central not being the Missouri River Conference is the puzzling part of that situation.

Glenwood and Lewis Central make a lot of sense in joining the Missouri River.

 

[DodgerAlum]

Heard some rumbling about the Waterloo schools joining the teams leaving the CIML. Would be an interesting take and help with the Ottumwa to FD/MC problem. Someone posted possible divisions.
NORTH
Fort Dodge Mason City Ames Marshalltown Waterloo East Waterloo West
SOUTH
Ottumwa 5 DM schools