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MVC and MAC to discuss district football on Wednesday

From what I have read here...district football has been used in 4A football prior to 2014. Ottumwa was assigned to a 3A district in 1992 to help them with scheduling and CBLC was assigned to a 3A district I believe while their enrollment was over 700 for a short time.

I am surprised the 4A league system managed to make it for 22 years after the other high school football district system was created in Iowa. IMO it sounds like the MVC and MAC conferences were the chief reasons it existed so long?
 
I don't have time to read through all of the old posts/articles for the particular piece of information I need to know, so if you could help me out I'd appreciate it.

Two things:

1) Are they actually going by BEDS now and there will still be 48 4A teams?
2) If there are only 46 teams as I have seen hinted at elsewhere, would there still be 9 weeks of regular season games for all 46 4A schools?
 
They are going by the 700 BEDS number, yes.The official definition of 4A football schools still includes members of the CIML, MRAC, MVC and MAC, but with districts that essentially doesn't mean anything.

It appears there will be only 46 schools in 4A for 2014-15 (losing Xavier, Wahlert and Assumption, but gaining Lewis Central as they are above 700). It also looks like there will be three districts of 6 and one of 5 on each side of the state, with Ottumwa and perhaps Marshalltown or Mason City being moved into east-side districts.

As it stands now, we are still looking at 9-game schedules. However, the state may be considering a plan to go to 8 games to determine playoff qualifiers. When the first round of playoffs begin (in what is currently Week 9), those teams that did not make the playoffs will be matched up with other non-qualifiers so all schools still are guaranteed nine games. But that's just speculation at the moment, no change has been made as of yet.
 
The nice thing abut the potential 9th game being the "play in" round of the playoffs is that they can get to a Friday, Friday, Friday, Friday, and Friday schedule for the playoffs instead of a Wednesday, Monday, Friday, Friday, Friday schedule.

The bad part is that every high school will lose a night of home ticket sales every other year. I wonder if the state will even find a way to take the gate of those 9th games between the non-playoff teams. They're greedy enough to do it.
 
Why isn't 4A classified as the top 48 enrollment wise and then just 64/64/etc after that... I don't understand why 700 HAS to be the cutoff line. I don't understand why 4A is treated as an entirely different entity than all of the other classes... They treat 4A the same in all of the other sports except football. Heck, even Boone was 4A in baseball 2 years ago and they weren't even in the top 48 (not sure how that happened). If you are going to make the change to ALL district football, then treat it like every other class and go top 48 and keep the rest of the numbers where they have always been. I went to a small school in high school and our enrollment had us in 1A 2 of my years and A 2 of my years... our enrollment numbers were within 4 kids of each other all of those years... fluctuating between classes was just the nature of the beast. You dealt with it. I'm sure the borderline 4A/3A schools have kids that can do the same...
 
I think what district football means for Blackhawk County, I don't see them in a District with IC West or Dub Senior. Dub Senior
wanted CF off their schedule, I don't see them playing anytime soon. However, if that district is made, I see the Blackhawk County Schools playing non district games against teams from the West and not the old teams from the MVC. Otherwise CF would still be playing a MVC schedule and I don't think they want to be locked into that. Not when the old MAC and the other half of the old MVC would get the chance to play a variety of different schools.
 
I am interested to see what some of the non-district games will look like, will we maybe see something like a Valley or Dowling vs. CF, Bett, or 1 of the two Iowa City schools, I think that would be well received around the state. The other thing that I think this opens up is for teams like Burlington or the Dubuque schools to maybe play a 3A school that is closer by that traveling a long ways to play another 4A.
 
Each thing I read from Todd Tharp in all these articles about the east/west say different things. They all say they want to put two five-team districts near each other so there's a cross over game between the two. One article mentions ONLY Ottumwa moving east, another mentions two of Ottumwa, Marshalltown, Mason City and Fort Dodge moving east. If the split is 23/23, then there would be a five-team district on each side of the state. That's fine. But I'm having a hard time figuring a westernmost eastern five-teamer and an easternmost west five-teamer that makes sense geographically for all ten teams within those two districts for a cross over.

== If Mason City and Marshalltown move east and end up in a district with the Black Hawk County teams, those Black Hawk schools are going to have opponents no closer than two hours away in Polk/Story Counties.

== If Ottumwa and Marshalltown move east and end up in a district with some mix of CRANDIC schools, it'll be the same situation for them to Polk County.

== If Ottumwa and Mason City get moved over it would be very dumb to keep them in the same district, even though they have been. Whoever is paired with them will still have the same issue with games in Polk County, one would get Marshalltown - a little closer. Not to mention, the other members of an eastern district with Ottumwa AND Mason City would have to get the "Nomad District Award".

If it's 24 west and 22 east, they could pair the five-teamers in the east much easier.

They also say in these articles that the mix is going to be like it is in the west, so my idea of there being two MVC districts and two MAC + Ottumwa districts seems VERY unlikely.
 
This is going to be my final guess at the 4A District set-up. I think in the end, that only Ottumwa is going to be moved east, as it's not logistically feasible to make bordering districts between east and west that could play crossover games during district play. Note on these final guess districts, I went back and took extra consideration towards balancing each district. First I evenly distributed the schools with the six worst ten-year histories in the east and the eight worst ten-year histories in the west. This means I use the tier system, but only to a certain level. I then balanced out the top sixteen teams as evenly as possible across those four districts on each half. As an added bonus, I've included the four non-district opponents, which are total guesses, for every teams and the crossover opponent for each team in Districts 6 and 7, which are the five-teamers. Enjoy...

WEST
DISTRICT 1...
CB Lincoln: SC West, CB Lewis Central, Harlan(3A), CB Jefferson
DM Hoover: DM North, DM Roosevelt, DM East, Mason City
DM Lincoln: DM East, WDM Dowling, DM Roosevelt, DM North
SC North: SC Heelan(3A), SC West, SC East, CB Lewis Central
Urbandale: WDM Dowling, Ankeny, Indianola, Johnston
WDM Valley: Waukee, Ames, SE Polk, WDM Dowling


DISTRICT 2...
Ankeny: SE Polk, Urbandale, Ames, Ank Centennial
CB Lewis Central: Glenwood(3A), CB Lincoln, CB Jefferson, SC North
DM North: DM Hoover, DM East, Mason City, DM Lincoln
Indianola: Fort Dodge, SE Polk, Urbandale, Ottumwa
SC East: CB Jefferson, SC Heelan(3A), SC North, SC West
Waukee: WDM Valley, Ank Centennial, WDM Dowling, Marshalltown


DISTRICT 3...
Ank Centennial: Ames, Waukee, Fort Dodge, Ankeny
CB Jefferson: SC East, Atlantic(3A), CB Lewis Central, CB Lincoln
DM East: DM Lincoln, DM North, DM Hoover, DM Roosevelt
Johnston: DM Roosevelt, Fort Dodge, Marshalltown, Urbandale
SC West: CB Lincoln, SC North, SC Heelan(3A), SC East
SE Polk: Ankeny, Indianola, WDM Valley, Ames


DISTRICT 4...
Ames: Ank Centennial, WDM Valley, Ankeny, SE Polk
DM Roosevelt: Johnston, DM Hoover, DM Lincoln, DM East
Fort Dodge: Indianola, Johnston, Ank Centennial, Wat West
Marshalltown: Newton(3A), Cedar Falls, Johnston, Waukee
Mason City: Wat East, Charles City(3A), DM North, DM Hoover
WDM Dowling: Urbandale, DM Lincoln, Waukee, WDM Valley


EAST
DISTRICT 5...
Cedar Falls: CR Prairie, Marshalltown, IC High, IC West
CR Kennedy: CR Xavier(3A), CR Jefferson, CR Washington, CR Prairie
Dub Hempstead: Dub Wahlert(3A), Bettendorf, Clinton, Dub Senior
Marion Lin-Mar: Marion(3A), CR Prairie, CR Jefferson, CR Washington
Wat East: Mason City, Independence(3A), IC West, CR Jefferson
Wat West: IC High, Waverly-Shell Rock(3A), Dub Senior, Fort Dodge


DISTRICT 6...
CR Prairie: Cedar falls, Marion Lin-Mar, CR Xavier(3A), CR Kennedy / crossover - Ottumwa
CR Washington: CR Jefferson, CR Xavier(3A), CR Kennedy, Marion Lin-Mar / crossover - IC West
Dav North: North Scott, Clinton, Burlington, Dav Central / crossover - Dav West
Muscatine: IC West, Dav West, Ottumwa, IC High / crossover - Burlington
Pleasant Valley: Ottumwa, Dav Central, Dav Assumption(3A), Burlington / crossover - Bettendorf


DISTRICT 7...
Bettendorf: Dav Assumption(3A), Dub Hempstead, North Scott, Clinton / crossover - Pleasant Valley
Burlington: Dav Central, Keokuk(3A), Dav North, Pleasant Valley / crossover - Muscatine
Dav West: Dub Senior, Muscatine, Dav Central, North Scott / crossover - Dav North
IC West: Muscatine, IC High, Wat East, Cedar falls / crossover - CR Washington
Ottumwa: Pleasant Valley, Mount Pleasant(3A), Muscatine, Indianola / crossover - CR Prairie


DISTRICT 8...
CR Jefferson: CR Washington, CR Kennedy, Marion Lin-Mar, Wat East
Clinton: Central Clinton(3A), Dav North, Dub Hempstead, Bettendorf
Dav Central: Burlington, Pleasant Valley, Dav West, Dav North
Dub Senior: Dav West, Dub Wahlert(3A), Wat West, Dub Hempstead
IC High: Wat West, IC West, Cedar Falls, Muscatine
North Scott: Dav North, Dav Assumption(3A), Bettendorf, Dav West
 
Screwloose,

That is a rigorous non district schedule for Marshalltown? If you add Ames and Dowling it would probably be one of the most difficult schedules in 4A football. I would think the non district requests would be the most time consuming part of the process for the IHSAA if they are making the 4A schedules work. I also would think Dowling would continue scheduling SEP in non-district.
 
I didn't really get a chance to comb over the entirety of the opponents, as it was around 2:30 in the morning when I finished this. And I'd been moving those parts for the better part of two hours. There's probably some changes I'd make, but for the most part I got most of the biggest rivalries covered. I'd venture to say, I've done more work on this than anybody in Boone even. I need a new hobby.
 
screw,

I love the work you do, loved reading through your predicted districts. However, one, I'm 99% sure that we are going to see 23 teams in the west and 23 teams in the east with a 5 team district on each side of the state. And two, you've done some good work to try and even out the districts and while I believe Todd and his crew will do this work in 206 when they re-district again but for the 2014 season, I'm of the belief that the state will appease the MVC by keeping natural rivalries in the same district. I think you'll see the 4 CR teams + L-M in one district together. We shall see.

I've always considered myself a conference purest but now that we are in a district format, I'm finding the potential options a lot of fun.
 
MarionHawk, thanks. And I'm totally down to see 23 on each side, but as I prefaced it, I cannot see a decent way to split the state and have bordering five-team districts that span across the east/west line. That's the only way they're going to get 23 a piece. The ONLY real scenario I could see this happen would be to keep Ottumwa in the west, moving Marshalltown and Mason City into a five-team district with Cedar Falls, Waterloo East and Waterloo West. That district gets paired with a five-teamer comprised of Ankeny, Centennial, Ames, and a couple of Polk County schools. But I can't see that happening.
 
Your argument is definitely valid. I just think they'll be under pressure to make sure everything is equal between the west and the east and that 16 of 23 will make the playoffs from each side as opposed to 16 of 22 from the east and 16 of 24 from the west.
 
Screwloose wants to see M-town get some big competition!

All kidding aside, good job splitting up the districts.

Hello to the boys in Boone reading this. Please see that Screwloose gets paid his royalties. A nice statewide gate pass till 2016 should be the minimum he gets if you use one of his scenarios.
 
I agree with you, screwloose, the reports out of Boone have been confusing, to say the least. When they first said they planned a five-team district on each side of the state, but having those two districts close enough for that extra crossover game, I thought, "Hey, good idea."

Then I thought, "How are they going to make THAT work? That doesn't really make any sense."

I also agree that a 24/22 split really does seem to work better than making it even. Forcing a 23/23 split just makes a lot of geographical messes, and for what? You already have 32 out of 46 teams making the playoffs - what is the big freaking deal if it's 16 out of 22 on the east side vs. 16 out of 24 on the west? If you're the 8th worst team on the west side, you've got no business complaining about being left out of the playoffs. And if you're the 6th worst team on the east side, enjoy your one extra playoff game, no parting gifts, thanks for playing.

It's interesting that you have Xavier with non-district games against Kennedy, Prairie and Washington. That's a best-case scenario for Xavier, I think ... I am sure they would love to have all three of their non-district games against former MVC mates in the metro. I am not sure how many of those metro MVC members want to play Xavier, however. I honestly don't know.

I also would be very surprised to see the Cedar Rapids schools plus Linn-Mar all in one district, as MarionHawk predicts. It may happen, perhaps, but I would be shocked.

We'll just have to see what happens when Boone throws all their numbers into the District-O-Matic 3000 and see what comes rolling out of there.


This post was edited on 1/10 10:26 AM by KidSilverhair
 
Screwloose,
I think on the long term 23 schools on each side would work better on each side....for a possible Iowa City and future Waukee school later. That brings up a question after watching the Waterloo West Youtube tape. Why not move Marshalltown and Mason City into a district with the Waterloo/Cedar Falls school that you mentioned and go with 23? There could be a five team district in the West that could share the cross over game with the Marshalltown/Mason City/Blackhawk County. Also, the only IHSAA promise that I have read, was that 4A was going to be 46 teams in 2014 and 2015. Why not make it 48 in 2016?

I don't think 8 game schedules are the answer. They play 10 high school games in a lot of states...so why put the Iowa preps at a disadvantage of having 6 fewer games than lot of their fellow recruits. I have seen complaints about the lack of FBS or even FCS recruits in small population states, so why would you want these kids to play less games. If there is going to be a 32 game playoff and access to the Dome is limited toward Thanksgiving, why not play the semifinal games at Drake and another Eastern Iowa outdoor venue.

Obviously a lot of posters enjoy your scenarios each day or there would not be over 7000 views of this thread. I am not sure what Luke's records show...but this one has been exceptional because of your input.

This post was edited on 1/10 11:50 AM by tnobd

This post was edited on 1/10 11:51 AM by tnobd
 
KidSilver, I'm with you on the Xavier possible non district opponents, I will tell you that from what I've heard around the coachign trees is that if Xavier gets non district games against the CR teams and L-M, that it will be at the choice of the state and not at the choice of the schools themselves. It may take a little while before the CR schools and L-M want to schedule Xavier again.
 
Of course, Tim Lewis is now gone but I was in the same room as him in December when he said, "We will NOT be putting Xavier on our list as a team to play in a non district game." However, as I understand it, the teams themselves may have control over one opponent that they play but the state will basically be deciding the other 3 games (in a 6 team district) so the state may decide the 42nd st rivalry will continue to be played.
 
If Xavier, Wahlert Heelan and Assumption want to play 4A teams then they should play 4A football
 
Originally posted by PNation:
If Xavier, Wahlert Heelan and Assumption want to play 4A teams then they should play 4A football



You know what? That might be the best argument made yet. Hard to believe nobody else has said that until now.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by MarionHawk:
Of course, Tim Lewis is now gone but I was in the same room as him in December when he said, "We will NOT be putting Xavier on our list as a team to play in a non district game." However, as I understand it, the teams themselves may have control over one opponent that they play but the state will basically be deciding the other 3 games (in a 6 team district) so the state may decide the 42nd st rivalry will continue to be played.
Click to expand...
Im hearing that kind of theme of the rest of the MVC coaches as well. If you want to be 3A, then go play 3A schools is the vibe Im getting.
 
It's a good point. Xavier wants to continue playing their traditional metro MVC opponents, but what's really in it for the 4A schools? Do they have anything to gain from playing a 3A opponent, especially if they could easily fill their non-district schedule with 4A teams?

It would be too bad for the Kennedy-Xavier game to go away, for example, but Kennedy doesn't have anything to gain by scheduling Xavier. I understand that. It's not like Heelan, where the Sioux City schools just don't have a whole lot of options to find non-district opponents. The Cedar Rapids schools have plenty of options, including some very eager schools in the Quad City area looking for competition.

So, yeah. Xavier wants to keep some 4A contests going, but you guys are right - if they wanted to be sure to play 4A teams, they could have chosen 4A. Personally, I'm sort of intrigued by a Xavier-Regina matchup. Is that too much of a size differential? Coach Schulte vs Coach Cook ... interesting.
 
A Xavier vs Regina match-up would be great to see! I know that Regina has also expressed interest playing Iowa City West in a non-district game. I think it would be great for the schools, fans, and the state. In class A, 1A, 2A, and 3A, there are some really good football teams. They just don't have the numbers to compete at the 4A level every week. But playing 1 game......let's go! The fan and state interest would be high and the gate would be great! West High fans here in Iowa City do a great job putting Regina down because they are 1A. Easy solution, PLAY THEM!!! Put up or shut up!!

Obviously its sounds like some sour grapes from the MVC and Xavier. Hopfully the other schools will see the value of maintaining some games with Xavier and the gates it produces.
 
These are the 4A sub-states for basketball. I wonder if these will be some sort of indicator as to the football district set-up to be released shortly.

SUBSTATE #1.........................................................SUBSTATE #2
Council Bluffs, Abraham Lincoln.................................Ames
Council Bluffs, Thomas Jefferson................................Ankeny
Lewis Central...........................................................Ankeny Centennial
Sioux City, East.......................................................Fort Dodge
Sioux City, North......................................................Mason City
Sioux City, West......................................................Valley, West Des Moines

SUBSTATE #3.........................................................SUBSTATE #4
Cedar Falls..............................................................Cedar Rapids, Jefferson
Dubuque, Hempstead...............................................Cedar Rapids, Kennedy
Dubuque, Senior......................................................Cedar Rapids, Washington
Linn-Mar, Marion......................................................Clinton
Waterloo, East.........................................................North Scott, Eldridge
Waterloo, West........................................................Pleasant Valley

SUBSTATE #5.........................................................SUBSTATE #6
Bettendorf................................................................Iowa City, City High
Burlington................................................................Iowa City, West
Davenport, Central....................................................Marshalltown
Davenport, North......................................................(Newton)
Davenport, West......................................................Ottumwa
Muscatine...............................................................Prairie, Cedar Rapids

SUBSTATE #7.........................................................SUBSTATE #8
Des Moines, Lincoln.................................................Des Moines, East
Des Moines, North....................................................Des Moines, Hoover
Des Moines, Roosevelt..............................................Dowling Catholic, West Des Moines
Indianola..................................................................(Norwalk)
Johnston..................................................................Urbandale
Southeast Polk.........................................................Waukee
 
Today we hear a decision about an 8-week football schedule.... as if it hasn't already been decided.

Personally, I hope they keep it at 9 and start at week 0 like the other classes of football.
 
Here's a twist....

No more tournament bracket... pairings TBD after each round of playoffs........... determined how I wonder?

Answer:

By "reasonable distance"...

So... If AL, LC, SC East, SC North make the playoffs, theoretically those 4 could have their own mini tournament into the Quarters....?
This post was edited on 1/22 11:20 AM by EHS1505
 
EHS1505,

"No more tournament bracket... pairings TBD after each round of playoffs........... determined how I wonder?"

Is this a suggestion or something the IHSAA has done for 4A football today?

If so, they are probably looking at geographic 4A districts only and would reseed the teams after every playoff round to insure parity.
 
Read on here that they're sticking to 9 games. No word that I've found on week 0 or changing the playoff system.

Districts will be released tomorrow. Ready for your royalty check, Screwloose?
 
The no seeding thing is confirmed via John Naughton.

So many question marks with that no seeding thing...

Edit: Now it appears to be taking on more of a "no sister-district" feel. The word seeding is not used in the IAHSAA's new policy, but they are still going to look to put 1 v 4 in the first round... they will just use geography to determine which 1 plays which 4, etc... No mention of 2 v 3 / 3 v 2 but would imagine it will be similar.

Think they are trying to say if SC East was #1 in D1 and SC West was #4 in D4, they'd be paired in the first round regardless whereas in years past SC West might have had to travel to DM to play D3s #1

Last year in the first round all 3 SC city schools had to travel to DM, but without getting away from 1v4 and 2v3 that still would have happened regardless. East was 3, AL was 3, North was 4 and West was 4...

I can't imagine they'd make sure 1v4 happened but allow 3v3 in the first round.... which would force a 2v2 somewhere else... would they?
This post was edited on 1/22 1:24 PM by EHS1505
 
Screwloose,
You make an interesting post about basketball substates, which could be used for a geographic model for the 4A football districts. I guess you could ask if all the basketball programs are fine with those post season alignments ...why couldn't they be used as regular season football districts. Big day tomorrow...for all the 4A football programs...when the districts are announced.
 
I think you could have 2v2 and 3v3 I mean you have to look at things like district strength, it could be where one districts #3 is 7-2 and another has a #2 at 6-3 or 5-4 why does the 6-3 team deserve to host the 7-2 team when they have the worse record.
 
Since geographic districts are unlikely, here's my last minute crack at possible 4A divisions:


1 Ames
1 Council Bluffs Lincoln
1 Des Moines East
1 Des Moines Hoover
1 Sioux City North
1 West Des Moines Valley

2 Ankeny
2 Council Bluffs Lewis Central
2 Des Moines North
2 Indianola
2 Sioux City West
2 West Des Moines Dowling

3 Ankeny Centennial
3 Council Bluffs Jefferson
3 Des Moines Roosevelt
3 Johnston
3 Sioux City East
3 Waukee

4 Des Moines Lincoln
4 Fort Dodge
4 Mason City
4 Southeast Polk
4 Urbandale

5 Cedar Falls
5 Clinton
5 Dubuque Hempstead
5 Iowa City High
5 Marshalltown

6 Cedar Rapids Kennedy
6 Davenport Central
6 Dubuque Senior
6 Iowa City West
6 North Scott
6 Waterloo West

7 Cedar Rapids Washington
7 Davenport North
7 Linn-Mar
7 Muscatine
7 Pleasant Valley
7 Waterloo East

8 Bettendorf
8 Burlington
8 Cedar Rapids Jefferson
8 Cedar Rapids Prairie
8 Davenport West
8 Ottumwa
 
pax, you had me until District 5. Can't see Marshalltown in a district with any schools along the Mississippi. Nor can I see a Black Hawk County school in a district with schools from the Quad Cities and south.
 
@1650KCNZ: Class 4A, District 5: Cedar Falls, Waterloo West, Waterloo East, CR Jefferson, CR Kennedy, Linn-Mar. #iahsfb
 
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