Teams that should be in Class A

[mtdew_fever]

There are a lot of schools that have dropped down to 8 Man football in the past few years. Most them had low numbers on their roster due to declining enrollments, which makes sense.

However....are there any schools that probably should be playing in 11 man football instead of 8 Man football?

 

[Engine5Driver]

Good Lord...open can of worms.....now!

 

[notlongago]

Originally posted by Engine5Driver:
Good Lord...open can of worms.....now!

Nope this one is easy.

Any team that falls outside of the iahsaa guidelines for 8-man should move. Until the iahsaa changes those guidelines or the schools enrollment goes above those guidelines, no reason to move.

If your team can't compete, work to get better. Pretty simple.

 

[Engine5Driver]

Originally posted by notlongago:

Originally posted by Engine5Driver:
Good Lord...open can of worms.....now!

Nope this one is easy.

Any team that falls outside of the iahsaa guidelines for 8-man should move. Until the iahsaa changes those guidelines or the schools enrollment goes above those guidelines, no reason to move.

If your team can't compete, work to get better. Pretty simple.

Can't argue with that!

 

[Class A Fan 06]

Any school that doesn't receive state money (parochial schools) should have to play up 2 classifications just like in Illinois.

 

[Cardinal2012]

Originally posted by Class A Fan 06:

Any school that doesn't receive state money (parochial schools) should have to play up 2 classifications just like in Illinois.

You should go to the class 1A forum and discuss in the 8 or so page thread there regarding a private school class. As you will see, Illinois is a bad example to use.

 

[tm3308]

Wayne will likely be moving up next season. They qualified last year because of enrollment projections, but the 2011 team (which played in 1A) had less than 20 kids. Their last game, they were missing 3 or 4 guys, then saw several more get hurt. They finished the game with 12 kids, which is no way to compete in 11-man.

 

[NEHTrojan]

I have always said I have no problem with schools over the 115 BEDs count playing 8-man, but I feel they should not be allowed in post season until they are under the 115 count. Many schools project that they may be under but in reality never go below that 115 or play several seasons over the limit. The schools that are over would still be able to field a team and play their 9 games and work on improving their football program, but not have an unfair advantage in the playoffs. As far as I know, no other class is allowed to "play down" a class if their BEDs # is over the set threshold, so if there is a set number (115), enforce it.

 

[tm3308]

I do think every class allows schools to drop down based on projections. You just don't see it as often in bigger classes. Personally, I think gross BEDS isn't the right way to determine classification. A school might have 115 kids, but say 70 are girls. Then that school has just 45 boys from which to field a team, and no school gets 100% participation (you're realistically looking at a 25-30 player roster, which is very small for 11-man). Classification should be determined by how many potential participants the school has, not the total enrollment.

 

[paxregis]

North Dakota is the sole state I know off that uses only male enrollment to classify football teams. It would make sense, and the Iowa DoE does collect that info.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Rose bowl or bust]

That makes too much sense pax.

Imagine if a parochial school in Iowa ran two different schools on the same campus. Let's just say Cedar Rapids Xavier is for boys, and Cedar Rapids Regis (is that one of the names before they joined?) is for girls. Xavier would be playing in 1A without counting their girls toward the total population of the school. They could easily "share" classes much like many public schools do, but have a separate beds number to reclassify themselves in a lower competition class.

I'm actually pretty shocked that the state doesn't use gender specific numbers. I'm not sure it would matter at the top classes, but it may shake some things up at the lower levels.

 

[Rose bowl or bust]

That makes too much sense pax.

Imagine if a parochial school in Iowa ran two different schools on the same campus. Let's just say Cedar Rapids Xavier is for boys, and Cedar Rapids Regis (is that one of the names before they joined?) is for girls. Xavier would be playing in 1A without counting their girls toward the total population of the school. They could easily "share" classes much like many public schools do, but have a separate beds number to reclassify themselves in a lower competition class.

I'm actually pretty shocked that the state doesn't use gender specific numbers. I'm not sure it would matter at the top classes, but it may shake some things up at the lower levels.

 

[Class A Fan 06]

Gender specific numbers make sense. I use N-K as an example because I am from there. N-K is close to the 115 number now, something like 109. I think their projections for the next 2 year cycle may be in the 120's. If their class were a 50/50 split they would go back up since they get good participation for football. The problem is from last years graduating class through the current 4th grade girls outnumber the boys almost 2 to 1. So in 9th-11th they will have about 125 but only 45 boys. If you get 50% participation in high school that is only 30 players with 8 being freshman. That's tough to compete with in 11 man.

 

[basketball777]

Originally posted by tm3308:
I do think every class allows schools to drop down based on projections. You just don't see it as often in bigger classes. Personally, I think gross BEDS isn't the right way to determine classification. A school might have 115 kids, but say 70 are girls. Then that school has just 45 boys from which to field a team, and no school gets 100% participation (you're realistically looking at a 25-30 player roster, which is very small for 11-man). Classification should be determined by how many potential participants the school has, not the total enrollment.

100% participation...maybe if your Murray....the have 70 or so BEDS number and almost 40 players on the sidelines....

 

[Voicefromthestands]

You could drop down. But would not be eligible for playoffs.

 

[gonorse92]

New to the game so no one hold that against me. Now that 2013 is starting to wind down, any word who may be switching to 8 player next year? I have heard Turkey Valley is making the switch. Thoughts welcome.

 

[Jayhawkin]

I have heard East Mills is dropping down. I have no idea if there is any truth to that. Also heard EHK-E will be going back to 11 man. Again, I have absolutely 0 inside information on these things, other than "water cooler" talk.

 

[gonorse92]

Good to know. It is a confirmed fact on Turkey Valley. Beds enrollment about 105. Will be fun. People are excited.

 

[paxregis]

I was wondering if Turkey Valley would make the move, considering they have made five consecutive playoffs in Class A.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[gonorse92]

Some good runs the last five years. Their Jr High has been playing a combination of 8 player and 11 player and the kids love it and to anyone on that comes on this type of board and questions whether it is real football needs to watch it and better yet should pad up and play. The quality of play is very good and gives more kids chances to show their abilities. For the Trojans a chance to possibly see some of their old football rivals like Tripoli, West Central, Central Elkader, Dunkerton and Kee High.

 

[Cardinal2012]

Originally posted by gonorse92:
Some good runs the last five years. Their Jr High has been playing a combination of 8 player and 11 player and the kids love it and to anyone on that comes on this type of board and questions whether it is real football needs to watch it and better yet should pad up and play. The quality of play is very good and gives more kids chances to show their abilities. For the Trojans a chance to possibly see some of their old football rivals like Tripoli, West Central, Central Elkader, Dunkerton and Kee High.

I wouldn't have guessed that considering less people get to play, unless you mean it's easier to spot because of the huge holes that form. I have watched 8-man before, it is exciting to watch because it's so open, but it's not the same as 11 man football. As for padding up and playing, that option is no longer in the cards. Don't get me wrong, 8-man has it's perks, but it's still a different game.

 

[gonorse92]

Three less players each side but keeps younger players from having to step up to the varsity level too soon and time to develop. First time poster here but a long time reader. I have seen too many people state 8 player is "not even football". They are incorrect with that statement. I've watched and it is football, different game in some ways but not as huge as one thinks. Just some of my thoughts on things.

 

[Cardinal2012]

I think it shares characteristics with 11 man. There is still the same physicality involved, and there are still the same goals, but it's different. I like to think of the difference between 6 player and 5 player girls basketball. Both are basketball, but the strategies in each are different to me. 8 man is all about speed. Sure, it helps to be fast in 11 man, but you can still win without it. 8 man exposes the speed difference more. My opinion of course. Personally, I would have rather played 8 man, but that's because I feel like I would have been better at it than 11.

 

[tm3308]

I think it's still definitely football. The fundamentals are all the same, the objectives are the same. It's like 4-on-4 in hockey; everything's more open, which is what highlights the difference in speed between two teams, and it creates more offense.

 

[wallywally]

Word is that English Valleys (North English) will be going from class A to 8 man next year.

 

[gonorse92]

All good stuff. Fun discussions. Anybody know of other schools making the switch? Good luck to all the teams in tonight's quarterfinals. Great night for football!!

 

[SICL Cares]

Originally posted by Class A Fan 06:

Any school that doesn't receive state money (parochial schools) should have to play up 2 classifications just like in Illinois.

Can you imagine Cedar Valley Christian playing Class 1A? Every system is flawed and someone is getting the short end of the stick one way or another.

 

[Voicefromthestands]

Look for East Mills to drop to 8 man next year. They were near 8 man numbers this season. Should be there for the new districts this spring.

 

[mtrain4854]

In terms of the two class up system, the CVC example shows why that would not work. They are so far under the 115 count that it would be too much of a jump. A multiplier system would keep them under though which is what should probably be happening.

 

[CoachBets]

The jumping up two classes to play sports won't happen here. I know for a fact it was brought up once before here in Iowa and it was shot down dead. Only reason it happened in Ill. is because of all of the success the catholic schools had. So the public schools were jealous, so they ramroded it thru.

At CVCS, we have a really low enrollment, so we don't have any worries. We'll be playing 8 man football for a long, long time. Personally, I would like to see two divisions of 8 man football. And it be determined by male population, not enrollment numbers.

 

[clenz213]

Originally posted by paxregis:
North Dakota is the sole state I know off that uses only male enrollment to classify football teams. It would make sense, and the Iowa DoE does collect that info.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Not a bad way to do it.

The girls union and IHSAA are already separate and girls already have 5 classes.

I see no reason to not do classes based on gender enrollment

 

[atomic87]

I think it would become an issue if there were ever an all-boys (or girls) school that became competitive enough to win a state title. I know there are grumblings about Woodward Academy's classification in all sports, since it is an all boys school, but because of the amount of turnover in students they are usually not competitive at the state level so no one has pressed the issue.