SE Football
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I agree with CP, 05 & 08 were very similar and because of the passing talent in both those years, Tighe did go to the air much more frequently. The schedules were much more competitive in those years, as well with the likes of Emmetsburg, AP and Sheldon.
I disagree 100%. I believe that if this years team faced the likes of Ferch? in 2011 or Wellick? in 2012 they would give up more than both of those teams defenses did. It doesn't look like there are any backs in 1a with that caliber so I guess we'll never find out. Go gaels on Friday!
I'd like to reserve judgment on this year's team for now.
How about this though.....2008 offense....with 2005 defense. Deal?
Btw, if any of you are remotely interested, they have past SE football stats on the school website.
How about this though.....2008 offense....with 2005 defense. Deal?
Btw, if any of you are remotely interested, they have past SE football stats on the school website.
I'm honestly not sure how I'd rate them. It's very subjective considering there's no way of having a control group. I just don't know why you think it's laughable how an undefeated team might have a chance to beat a team that Belmond Klemme, Garner and Nashau almost beat in 2008. I've argued that class 1A might be down a little bit this year but Regina would have killed the 2008 AP and Emmetsberg teams. Emmetsberg slipped by a West Lyon team 3-0 in the finals that won a lot of close games all season. We'll have a better chance to fully evaluate SE based on the outcomes of the next few games. I'm certainly not biased in favor of this years team. DT can speak to that since I've argued with him about them in other threads.
Okay I realize I may have made so idiotic statements in my posts, but I guess Im really just wanting to know peoples opinions on where this team sits among st eds bests. If they lost to Manson on monday (which they probably deserved to) are people still talking about them as being a top team in the schools history?
2008 Nashua Plainfield was a pretty salty squad. Big time offense. I would compare them to a 2013 Ridge View. I understand that the 2013 Gaels put an old fashioned shalacking on RV this year but I think we can all agree that RV was better than they showed that game.
We've basically got two threads going with the same topic. I'll copy and paste my reply here and just use this thread.
Also when you have one of the best defenses in class 1A
you are even less likely to pass. They haven't had to get into a
shootout with anyone. There really isn't a great stat for comparing
teams from different years but probably the closest measurement is +/-
point differential. Here's the how many more points the offenses scored
than the defenses gave up:
2008: 182
2011: 220
2013: 307
Now
you can make the argument about strength of schedule but that would
have to be a pretty convincing variance to assume the 2013 team couldn't
compete with those two.
Also when you have one of the best defenses in class 1A
you are even less likely to pass. They haven't had to get into a
shootout with anyone. There really isn't a great stat for comparing
teams from different years but probably the closest measurement is +/-
point differential. Here's the how many more points the offenses scored
than the defenses gave up:
2008: 182
2011: 220
2013: 307
Now
you can make the argument about strength of schedule but that would
have to be a pretty convincing variance to assume the 2013 team couldn't
compete with those two.
I posted that last one before I saw yours CP.
How will the next few games prove anything? Even if SE wins state theres no saying whether they are the best team in the schools history. Theres only one way I see any evaluation coming at the end of the season. I have talked to some Regina people and they have all said that this is the worst football teams they have had in a while now. If they roll through everyone easily this year on their way to another state championship I think that will show how down 1a is this year. And yes I still think its laughable that you think 2008 would get beat. An undefeated team means nothing if they dont have a somewhat challenging chedule.
How will the next few games prove anything? Even if SE wins state theres no saying whether they are the best team in the schools history. Theres only one way I see any evaluation coming at the end of the season. I have talked to some Regina people and they have all said that this is the worst football teams they have had in a while now. If they roll through everyone easily this year on their way to another state championship I think that will show how down 1a is this year. And yes I still think its laughable that you think 2008 would get beat. An undefeated team means nothing if they dont have a somewhat challenging chedule.
If Saint Eds wins state, I don't think they will, it would be hard to say they aren't the best especially after knocking off a team like Regina. If they lose the next game or at the dome it definitely makes it more murky but at least you can see how those teams fair against the others at state. For example if SE loses to SO and then SO gets killed in the semis and that team gets killed by Regina, it doesn't look that good for SE in this comparison even though you'll never have an absolute answer.
As far as Regina, maybe it's not the best team they've had but the past teams have been killing everyone. The worst team for Regina in the past 3-4 years would probably win state 9 out of 10 times. You could say the same about AP in 2008. That certainly wasn't near the top of AP's teams for the past decade and they got handled by E-Berg pretty easily.
It's impossible to tell, but I'm pretty sure that West Marshall team has at least three guys that play D1 now. However, if this team wins tomorrow then there shouldn't be much of an argument left.
This post was edited on 11/7 11:33 PM by trout_king15
It's impossible to tell, but I'm pretty sure that West Marshall team has at least three guys that play D1 now. However, if this team wins tomorrow then there shouldn't be much of an argument left.
[/B]
Not sure what you're trying to say here. If SE beats an average SO squad then you think they are the best?
[/B]
Not sure what you're trying to say here. If SE beats an average SO squad then you think they are the best?
E-berg took a 14-0 lead and AP's only points came with less than 6 minutes to go off an E-berg fumble at their own 25. AP only had 163 yards of total offense. E-berg dominated SE earlier in the year too. If the 2008 SE team, which might have been #4-5 in state that year is the best in school history, that doesn't say much for their program.
The 2008 and 2005 teams had better offenses. More speed, more athleticisim, more depth, more diverse, better backs, better QBs. 2008 had to beat #1 and #2 to even try to get to state and that definitely limits points scored. 2013 might have the better defense though so the answer is like always- a little bit of everything. In other words, put Harvey at FB with Sandvig, Flattery at RB, J Flattery and Baldwin at receivers and Engler at QB. Those are some of the best athletes to ever come out of SE. But that team was small on defense. 2005 also had some great athletes- Bradley, Condon and Baedke but weaker RB's. But they passed more.
Football is really down in this area this year but you have to take advantage of that and hopefully we do.
In full disclosure- kind of- I was a member of the 2005-2007 teams.
Check out the record books listed on the SE website. The rushing, receiving and passing yards are dominated by that era. Sandvig, Flattery and Steinkamp are all in the top 9 rushing and they played on the same teams, Steinkamp year younger..
This post was edited on 11/8 9:56 AM by hawk44ever
Football is really down in this area this year but you have to take advantage of that and hopefully we do.
In full disclosure- kind of- I was a member of the 2005-2007 teams.
Check out the record books listed on the SE website. The rushing, receiving and passing yards are dominated by that era. Sandvig, Flattery and Steinkamp are all in the top 9 rushing and they played on the same teams, Steinkamp year younger..
This post was edited on 11/8 9:56 AM by hawk44ever
I think 1A is down this year with the exception of a couple of teams. But, I think that is the trend in all classes. The top (lets say 5-6) teams are quite a bit better. With schools combining and enrollments changing, one would think competition would get better. To me it seems like the number of kids going out for football has declined. Maybe do to the fear of injuries or the fact kids are specializing in one or two sports. I think this years SE team could hold its own against any of the previous mentioned SE teams. Maybe not beat them, but wouldn't be a blood bath.
Hard to start talking how great you are when, according to your own coaches, you haven't played anybody yet.
Didn't Coach Tighe say before the play-offs that this was "their easiest path to the dome"? Given the awful teams St. Ed's has played to this point- I would think you'd have to reserve judgment until they play somebody who is on their level.
Didn't Coach Tighe say before the play-offs that this was "their easiest path to the dome"? Given the awful teams St. Ed's has played to this point- I would think you'd have to reserve judgment until they play somebody who is on their level.
Two Ferches and Tysen Streeter are at Iowa State.
This post was edited on 11/8 11:04 AM by trout_king15
Hey- we're all proud of the way Tighe has turned around Gael Football and those of us who played are very proud. 5 years before Coach got here we had a record of 2-43. Let that sink in- 2-43. Now we are discussing whether 8-2 teams or 11-0 teams are better. Come on man, celebrate. Go Gaels!
You have a lot of subjective statements (i.e. more speed, more athleticism) but the stats don't show that.
2011 Rushing:
Flattery: 1615 yds avg: 6.2 TDs: 23
Mericle: 601 yds avg: 5.3 TDs: 7
2005 Rushing:
Sandvig: 968 avg: 6.1 TDs 7
Nemmers 594 avg: 3.2 TDs 14
2008 Rushing:
Sandvig was definitely a stud avg 10 ypc but Flattery and Steinkamp were both well under 6 we'll below O'Tool.
2013: O'Tool has 977 yards averaging over 7 per carry with 11 TDs. Harvey has 28 TDs this season and will have the all time record. I have a feeling O'Tool will leave SE as the alltime leading rusher.
There's no doubt 2008 had a better QB which makes Peed all that more impressive and I believe he's the best WR in the last decade for SE and will set the yards per reception school record.
2005 had one of the least efficient passing teams of all these mentioned. They threw the ball more as you mentioned, hence more yards, but they also only completed 38% with 10 INTs.
2013 defense might be the best in school history. Only two teams have double digits against them to this point. The 2005 team gave up double digits to three teams not including E-berg and it's not like those three teams were great either. Okoboji and BCIG finished 6-3 and Washington was 4-5. The 2008 defense really wasn't that good. They might arguably have the best offense but their defense gave up a whopping 294 yards per game.
There are still games to go and it's not conclusive based on current evidence. Maybe SE will go out and get killed tonight and we can agree that 2005/'08/'11 were better but based on available data it's hard to argue against them.
This post was edited on 11/8 11:59 AM by CP84
CP, Eburg didn't dominate SE in 2008. SE was the only team that year to lead Eburg in the 4th qtr. SE lead Eburg 7-6 going into the 4th qtr. Much closer game then the final score would indicate. That year Eburg was outstanding with terrific size and speed. Nashua, Belmond and Garner were all competitive.
Coach Tighe is correct, this is the easiest path to state that SE has had since he came to SE. The program was an absolute embarrassment before he came.
GO GAELS! "WIN ONE FOR THE TIGHER"
Coach Tighe is correct, this is the easiest path to state that SE has had since he came to SE. The program was an absolute embarrassment before he came.
GO GAELS! "WIN ONE FOR THE TIGHER"
Where did Tighe say this was their "easiest" path? A coach would have to be an absolute idiot to make that remark. That's basically a shot at your opponent. I hope you're not taking the Messenger comment out of context because that's not even close:
"We've never had a better shot," said Tighe, who has now guided St. Edmond to its only two 11-win seasons. "Everybody is healthy and ready to go.
"Add in playing a third straight home playoff game inside the friendly confines of Dodger Stadium and we have plenty going for us."
Sounds more like Tighe knows he has a good team with homefield advantage rather than a disrespectful shot at the quality of opponents like you indicate. If he said "easiest path" I'd sure like to see proof.
Also you would have to be beyond biased to claim Belmond was competitive. SE gave up 20 points to a team that only score >20 three other times that season. That Belmond team would have lost handily to Manson or Ridgeview this year. They barely beat a 3 win Clarion team by a 7-6 score and got shut out twice. That was a bad game for SE to allow them to play that close.
This post was edited on 11/8 1:38 PM by CP84
Since no one wanted to jump in and rank the teams then maybe making an all star st eds offense from the past decade would be more fun?
Guys are in no particular order
QB- Frankly, I think I would take either Flattery, Engler, or Bradley to run my offense. They all had canons for arms but Engler might have been able to throw the nicest ball. If se ran an offense that used their Qbs legs more often then I would say Bradley or Flattery would have the advantage.
RB-Either Sandvig, Mericle, or N flattery sandvig and flattery had crazy break away speed. Mericle wasn't AS fast but was twenty pounds heavier then both. Probably one of the best power backs to go through se.
FB-Harvey, Steinkamp, Nemmers Probably go with Harvey. What a force
WR-Peed, clark, J flattery, Condon .flattery and condon were unbelievable but I never saw them continue to make some of the catches Peed has made these past years with 3 guys on him. Clark was outstanding for his size
TE-Champa, Balwin Champa was extremely underated I thought. 6'4 220 with speed and great hands. Both seemed to block extremely well. Baldwin didn't drop a thing.
K-Joe Mcelroy, Baedke
P-Piercy, D Flattery
Might have left some guys out. Didn't want to get into the offensive line
Guys are in no particular order
QB- Frankly, I think I would take either Flattery, Engler, or Bradley to run my offense. They all had canons for arms but Engler might have been able to throw the nicest ball. If se ran an offense that used their Qbs legs more often then I would say Bradley or Flattery would have the advantage.
RB-Either Sandvig, Mericle, or N flattery sandvig and flattery had crazy break away speed. Mericle wasn't AS fast but was twenty pounds heavier then both. Probably one of the best power backs to go through se.
FB-Harvey, Steinkamp, Nemmers Probably go with Harvey. What a force
WR-Peed, clark, J flattery, Condon .flattery and condon were unbelievable but I never saw them continue to make some of the catches Peed has made these past years with 3 guys on him. Clark was outstanding for his size
TE-Champa, Balwin Champa was extremely underated I thought. 6'4 220 with speed and great hands. Both seemed to block extremely well. Baldwin didn't drop a thing.
K-Joe Mcelroy, Baedke
P-Piercy, D Flattery
Might have left some guys out. Didn't want to get into the offensive line
from the 10/29 Messenger, Coach Tighe
"I know it's still a long way down the road, but it appears this is the best chance we've ever had of getting to the (UNI-)Dome," said the 83-year old Tighe, who is directing his 22nd team to the playoffs in 60 seasons on the sidelines. "We always had a real strong Parkersburg or Emmetsburg standing in the way in years past, but this year we're the only unbeaten (from District 1 or 2) and appear to be the strongest team."
"I know it's still a long way down the road, but it appears this is the best chance we've ever had of getting to the (UNI-)Dome," said the 83-year old Tighe, who is directing his 22nd team to the playoffs in 60 seasons on the sidelines. "We always had a real strong Parkersburg or Emmetsburg standing in the way in years past, but this year we're the only unbeaten (from District 1 or 2) and appear to be the strongest team."
That's really the point of my argument. Offense gets all the attention while defense is underestimated. Engler was easily the best QB but he played on a team that had the worst defense of all those mentioned. 2013 doesn't have a big passing game but they've had a fairly efficient passing game and their run game is comparable to the others mentioned and far superior to 2005 in that regard. I'm not arguing that 2013 is the best. I just think that with their defense and a respectable run game and Peed as a passing weapon when they do go to the air, they should not be seen as inferior. When we looked at point differential, the 2013 team had the widest margin of points scored vs given up. That might be in part due to SOS but it was still a healthy margin. Tonight's game should tell us a lot. If SO proves they are clearly the better team I'll come back to eat my serrving of crow and admit I was wrong.
Tonight's game should tell us a lot. If SO proves they are clearly the better team I'll come back to eat my serrving of crow and admit I was wrong. [/B]
I still don't see this game proving anything. SO barely squeaked by Emmetsburg (7-6) and Manson put a beat down on Emmetsburg (40-6). Both of these games were late in the season which doesn't prove that the teams were all at their "peaks" but I think its a fair assessment. That being said, I think that St. Eds beating SO by 30 points tonight still wouldn't tell us anything.
I still don't see this game proving anything. SO barely squeaked by Emmetsburg (7-6) and Manson put a beat down on Emmetsburg (40-6). Both of these games were late in the season which doesn't prove that the teams were all at their "peaks" but I think its a fair assessment. That being said, I think that St. Eds beating SO by 30 points tonight still wouldn't tell us anything.
"best chance"....."easiest" Tomato/tomatoe
We know what he meant- he was slapping down the rest of the teams in the bracket....plain and simple.
We know what he meant- he was slapping down the rest of the teams in the bracket....plain and simple.
He wasn't slapping down anybody but the districts are easier than they have been in a long time. In 2008, SE was #3 in state, Eburg was #2 and A-P was #1. That is a loaded quarterfinal.
This post was edited on 11/8 3:51 PM by hawk44ever
This post was edited on 11/8 3:51 PM by hawk44ever
Wubben, if you don't think this is the best chance/easiest road to the dome that Tighe has ever had with the Gaels you are ignorant. It is pretty much a fact. If it upsets you that he thinks his team has better odds in this bracket than in years past, do something about it. By losing to the Gaels and letting them reach new levels of success aren't you proving him right?
Out of curiosity what was the BCMoore rankings for the top 5 going into state, which is usually a better measure than the Register rankings which base on record? By the end of the year West Lyon probably had to be considered pretty solid. After a fairly slow start they had a great finish to the season and had the closest game with E-berg in the finals.
This post was edited on 11/8 4:37 PM by CP84
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