what is key to making all state? Is points scored first and most important criteria? Then team success? Politics? Thoughts.....
Picking all state
- Thread starter jokerpoker
- Start date
3 Things that help for INA:
Having your coach there
Having media in your area that will support the athlete
Getting/doing well at state
Having your coach there
Having media in your area that will support the athlete
Getting/doing well at state
So sadly, it is more politics, than what a player did on the court. If 1 and 2 are coaches presence, and newspaper support. Sort of figured that, but was hoping more effort was put into it..
You may be right but with Quikstats they should be able to do their homework. Head to head games should count as well as the competition you are playing.
Making it or playing in the state tournament should have very little to do with being an all state player. There are many all state players that don't make it down there because their team is not as good.
Making it or playing in the state tournament should have very little to do with being an all state player. There are many all state players that don't make it down there because their team is not as good.
It's tough to call because how many qualified basketball people saw kids from all sides of the state to make an accurate comparison from a kid from Eastern Iowa to a kid from Western Iowa?
This is nothing new.
This is nothing new.
Sad part is a kid is really deserving, stats rank in top 10, team wins conference, everyone in 7 to 10 county area know he is real deal, but lacks the politicing. Sad sad sad. People start putting numbers and ranks by players names that they have never seen can hurt a kids chances for colleges noticing. Or I suppose increase chances of another whom is less deserving.. Again another sad flawed system. Like tournament seeding, all tournament teams, etc etc etc.
Colleges pay little if any attention to all-state teams. If a player is the "real deal" they will be found.
The system is not flawed when it deals with recruiting. People can use that as an excuse but good players are almost never missed.
The system is not flawed when it deals with recruiting. People can use that as an excuse but good players are almost never missed.
Some advice. If there is a particular school the person you are talking about has interest in, get to their camps, contact coaches, sell yourself to be seen
Think all anyone wants is there worth. If that is not as good as you are hoping then so be it, as long as one can unbiased understand the picks or ranks of the players. I can't compare the whole state, just my area. Quick stats are nice, but also a curse because it allows comparisons, and arguments. Just wish due dilligence was put in all selection process, but even that causes questions. Look at ncaa seeding system. Oh well, gives us something to debate.
Agreed. If you're not a division one or high division 2 guy you are going to have to get your name out to coaches, not rely on post season honors.
Just to add on to these great points of advice... That's the best thing you can tell a kid from the jump! Get your name out there, and make a name for yourself. You may be a diamond in the dirt, as there are thousands of kids the same age around the world trying to achieve the same thing. Do what you can control and go from there! Just like the old saying goes.... "Nothing is going to be handed to you in life, you have to go get it!" Great debate and pointers!
Chances of colleges noticing? That's a little extreme. If you are suggesting that a kid might not get a college basketball scholarship because he didn't get All-State consideration....you are really stretching.
If you look at any D-III roster here in the state of Iowa, you'll see it is littered with kids that were either All-State or at the very least All-Conference....and not one of them has a college basketball scholarship.
If you look at any D-III roster here in the state of Iowa, you'll see it is littered with kids that were either All-State or at the very least All-Conference....and not one of them has a college basketball scholarship.
Pretty arbitrary. Since no one can see everyone play, it comes down to recognition from state appearances and stat #'s. Big scorers will benefit.
Hard for the 2nd/3rd best player on good teams to put up gaudy numbers like some of those on the list.
Taking 20-25 shots per game just won't happen for them.
Personally, I don't think college coaches look at All-State accolades that much.
Hard for the 2nd/3rd best player on good teams to put up gaudy numbers like some of those on the list.
Taking 20-25 shots per game just won't happen for them.
Personally, I don't think college coaches look at All-State accolades that much.
IMO in basketball (same in soccer) you almost have to play on a travel squad to get offers. Most college coaches do their recruiting during this time b/c its during their off-season. Unfortunately many times these teams cost about $4k/year to play on.
Actually don't feel stat #'s even that important. Looks to me the first thing one needs is a newspaper person there to nominate. Then if stats are even OK, they make it..
Wanted to think these "sports reporters" out there, whom are watching games and listening to coaches, breaking down stats and conferences, writing their articles, got together last weekend and voted and debated and created these teams!!! NO. Now paper people are there, but some know very little about the sport, just a kid from there area.. They nominate and if stats look good, they are on it.
If you check out the INA report you can connect lines from newspaper people in attendance, or the coaches that provide stat info to the players put on the team..
So don't be mad at group that may have over looked a deserving player, be mad at local newspapers for not attending and making the nomination!!!!
Just sad it took me 40+ years to finally figure this system out...
Wanted to think these "sports reporters" out there, whom are watching games and listening to coaches, breaking down stats and conferences, writing their articles, got together last weekend and voted and debated and created these teams!!! NO. Now paper people are there, but some know very little about the sport, just a kid from there area.. They nominate and if stats look good, they are on it.
If you check out the INA report you can connect lines from newspaper people in attendance, or the coaches that provide stat info to the players put on the team..
So don't be mad at group that may have over looked a deserving player, be mad at local newspapers for not attending and making the nomination!!!!
Just sad it took me 40+ years to finally figure this system out...
Or it could be the local paper just did not think they had players in their area worthy of all state.
Earlier it was mentioned it was somewhat political in nature. Would it not be political for a sports reporter to push for someone just because they were from their area? Even if they were not deserving?
I know as a coach I was often asked about players from area newspapers prior to INA. Was also asked by coaches who attended although I never did.
Earlier it was mentioned it was somewhat political in nature. Would it not be political for a sports reporter to push for someone just because they were from their area? Even if they were not deserving?
I know as a coach I was often asked about players from area newspapers prior to INA. Was also asked by coaches who attended although I never did.
I always thought that all-state recognition came to those young men and women who worked hard on their skills and then were successful at it during the course of a season. Stats being a driving force for it. The top stat leaders getting a special look. It doesn't matter what conference played in or teams against. My reasoning being that any youngster scoring 22 plus points or 11 rebounds a game for a season, is quite remarkable.
The Iowa HS Tournament has an all-tournament team for players that are deserving for their play there, at that time. The INA doesn't have to necessarily use state tournament qualifiers as part of the criteria to determine who is all-state material for the year.
Nor would I agree that the student should get all-state honors because they had a great career, all-state I believe is for that year only. Maybe I'm wrong on everything. Just what I believe.
The Iowa HS Tournament has an all-tournament team for players that are deserving for their play there, at that time. The INA doesn't have to necessarily use state tournament qualifiers as part of the criteria to determine who is all-state material for the year.
Nor would I agree that the student should get all-state honors because they had a great career, all-state I believe is for that year only. Maybe I'm wrong on everything. Just what I believe.
The really good players just stand out against good competition. I don't think stats mean too much. The worst thing is being on a loaded team, and being a really great player, and getting almost no recognition because of who's ahead of you. Like VanderHoops said, the newspaper people in your area make a big difference. If the local newspaper sports editor doesn't like your coach or is a huge supporter of another team in town, that can make a big difference, believe me. And there are always very deserving kids who don't make all-state, especially at the guard spot. In high school ball, there must be ten great guards for every great big man. A boy can be an awesome guard and not get a college offer. Just too many guards.
To better the system, still not great, but better..
Only papers that print daily, and actually have a "sports" person should get to vote. These small town papers that press the article the local coach writes on a weekly basis should stay out of it. Now they can communicate with the larger papers of their area before the meeting occurs, else stay out of it. Many of these people love their local kid, but really have no clue.
Secondly, why are all these head coaches at the voting??? It says "for statistical information"??? Now maybe needed 10 years ago, but with Quickstats now, all the stats are a click away.. Just more biased people in the room politically influencing the vote.. I have been told by news in attendance some get up and make a campaign for there player. This is suppose to be the "NEWS" reporters voting.. Keep the coaches out. Let the IBCA make there own teams for each class....
The argument that playing at State tournament is key to making team.. Can't buy this bias, at least not this year. In 2A of the 24 selected to the 3 teams, 10 played at tournament, and 14 did not. Now if 20 to 4, or 16 to 8 maybe could see this bias, but 10 to 14, not. And obviously if a team is playing at State, all their local newspapers are there, so they all attend the voting meeting. If NO area teams are playing at State, the news people may not even attend (which i would say KILL any chance of that kid making team). Plus let's face it, if making tournament, the teams have a good player on them, So again 10 to 14 is probably bout right.
With all my solutions, there is no great fix. Every fix just leads to more problems. My only son is now finished with career, so actually I could care less if fixed or not... And maybe it doesn't need fixing???
Only papers that print daily, and actually have a "sports" person should get to vote. These small town papers that press the article the local coach writes on a weekly basis should stay out of it. Now they can communicate with the larger papers of their area before the meeting occurs, else stay out of it. Many of these people love their local kid, but really have no clue.
Secondly, why are all these head coaches at the voting??? It says "for statistical information"??? Now maybe needed 10 years ago, but with Quickstats now, all the stats are a click away.. Just more biased people in the room politically influencing the vote.. I have been told by news in attendance some get up and make a campaign for there player. This is suppose to be the "NEWS" reporters voting.. Keep the coaches out. Let the IBCA make there own teams for each class....
The argument that playing at State tournament is key to making team.. Can't buy this bias, at least not this year. In 2A of the 24 selected to the 3 teams, 10 played at tournament, and 14 did not. Now if 20 to 4, or 16 to 8 maybe could see this bias, but 10 to 14, not. And obviously if a team is playing at State, all their local newspapers are there, so they all attend the voting meeting. If NO area teams are playing at State, the news people may not even attend (which i would say KILL any chance of that kid making team). Plus let's face it, if making tournament, the teams have a good player on them, So again 10 to 14 is probably bout right.
With all my solutions, there is no great fix. Every fix just leads to more problems. My only son is now finished with career, so actually I could care less if fixed or not... And maybe it doesn't need fixing???
Really good posts. Not a perfect system, nor will it probably ever be. I guess it prepares kids for life, which is certainly not always fair. In the workplace, some employees seem to be favored, and in other situations the "squeaky wheel" gets more attention than one deserves. I just want to take this opportunity to thank the players, parents and coaches for all the hard work they put in for their teams and schools. Even if a few lucky players go on to play at the next level, it'll never be quite the same as far as the special moments and camaraderie that only high school sports can provide.
It's a big problem if there aren't newspapers representing all parts of the state. If there are more from one area they get more kids on the all state teams. There should be equal representation to make it fair for kids from all parts of the state.
The Neuroth kid from DNH made 2nd team all state and it could be argued that he wasn't the best point guard in his own conference. Very good player on an undefeated team that made the state tournament but it makes you wonder.
All three of these boys below played in competitive conferences.
The first 2 kids made all state and the third one did not. Numbers should not lie.
Pts Pts/G FGM FGA FG % 3PTM 3PTA 3 % FTM FTA FT% Off Reb Def Reb Reb Assts TOs Steals Blocks Fouls
361 17.2 126 285 44.2 25 79 31.6 84 134 62.7 30 93 123 44 40 30 7 45
319 13.9 112 249 45.0 53 143 37.1 42 58 72.4 11 75 86 76 28 43 6 44
437 18.2 162 325 49.8 43 107 40.2 70 122 57.4 28 65 93 148 64 83 0 39
The Neuroth kid from DNH made 2nd team all state and it could be argued that he wasn't the best point guard in his own conference. Very good player on an undefeated team that made the state tournament but it makes you wonder.
All three of these boys below played in competitive conferences.
The first 2 kids made all state and the third one did not. Numbers should not lie.
Pts Pts/G FGM FGA FG % 3PTM 3PTA 3 % FTM FTA FT% Off Reb Def Reb Reb Assts TOs Steals Blocks Fouls
361 17.2 126 285 44.2 25 79 31.6 84 134 62.7 30 93 123 44 40 30 7 45
319 13.9 112 249 45.0 53 143 37.1 42 58 72.4 11 75 86 76 28 43 6 44
437 18.2 162 325 49.8 43 107 40.2 70 122 57.4 28 65 93 148 64 83 0 39
Just throwing out a question. How does a player go from 2A 1st team INA 2014-2015 to 2nd team INA 2015-2016 in spite of leading 2A in scoring, leading in FT %, in top 3 in 2A in all shooting % and #15 in rebounding for 2015-2016.
He improved his stats in every category but 3pt %. Played every position on the court this year.
Team he played on, missed state both years. He is a 6'4" shooting guard.
He improved his stats in every category but 3pt %. Played every position on the court this year.
Team he played on, missed state both years. He is a 6'4" shooting guard.
I'm sure I could figure out who you are talking about, but from a general standpoint, I'd guess there could be some valid reasons. The other players in 2A obviously changes from year to year so comparing one year to the next is difficult as new players show up or younger ones improve, etc. Another would be that not all of the same people that were there to vote the year before may be there the next year. Could also be that there might be more "high profile" players on teams that actually reached the state tournament than the year before. For example, you may have a had a couple teams the year before that were pretty balanced, non-1st team all-state players whereas you might have 8 teams this year all with a standout. The reality is that this is a subjective practice and not everyone is going to be thrilled with it. However, the people there voting are trying to make the best decision they can.
What makes you think that people that work for newspapers are qualified to judge who is good?
Also, it looks like there are 37 daily newspapers in the state.
Let's say each gets 1 vote. Should the guy from the Cherokee Chronicle Times really be given a vote on who the 4A class should be when they are very unlikely to ever see a Class 4A game? How about the guy from the Clinton Herald. Are they really going to be inclined to vote for anyone outside their region when considering they are unlikely to see any team west of Cedar Rapids play regardless of class?
Just because a kid isn't on a State Tournament qualifying team, they shouldn't be excluded form an All-State team (ex - Adam Haluska never played at the State Tourney, but was by far the best in the state)
Also, it looks like there are 37 daily newspapers in the state.
Let's say each gets 1 vote. Should the guy from the Cherokee Chronicle Times really be given a vote on who the 4A class should be when they are very unlikely to ever see a Class 4A game? How about the guy from the Clinton Herald. Are they really going to be inclined to vote for anyone outside their region when considering they are unlikely to see any team west of Cedar Rapids play regardless of class?
Just because a kid isn't on a State Tournament qualifying team, they shouldn't be excluded form an All-State team (ex - Adam Haluska never played at the State Tourney, but was by far the best in the state)
- Ames Tribune - Ames
- Atlantic News-Telegraph - Atlantic
- Boone News-Republican - Boone
- Carroll Daily Times Herald - Carroll
- Charles City Press - Charles City
- Cherokee Chronicle Times - Cherokee
- Clinton Herald - Clinton
- Council Bluffs Daily Nonpareil - Council Bluffs
- Creston News Advertiser - Creston
- Daily Iowegian - Centerville
- Des Moines Register - Des Moines
- Estherville Daily News - Estherville
- Fairfield Daily Ledger - Fairfield
- Fort Madison Daily Democrat - Fort Madison
- The Gazette - Cedar Rapids
- Globe Gazette - Mason City
- The Hawk Eye - Burlington
- Iowa City Press-Citizen - Iowa City
- Keokuk Daily Gate City - Keokuk
- Le Mars Daily Sentinel - Le Mars
- Marshalltown Times Republican - Marshalltown
- The Messenger - Fort Dodge
- Mount Pleasant News - Mount Pleasant
- Muscatine Journal - Muscatine
- Newton Daily News - Newton
- Oelwein Daily Register - Oelwein
- The Oskaloosa Herald - Oskaloosa
- Ottumwa Courier - Ottumwa
- Quad-City Times - Davenport
- Sioux City Journal - Sioux City
- Spencer Daily Reporter - Spencer
- Telegraph Herald - Dubuque
- The Valley News - Shenandoah
- Vinton Cedar Valley Daily Times - Vinton
- Washington Evening Journal - Washington
- The Waterloo-Cedar Falls Courier - Waterloo
- Webster City Daily Freeman-Journal - Webster City[1]
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