Nov. 2 Quarterfinal Scores, Comments

[GoBigD6788]

This is a comical conversation. If you're talking about separating out parochial schools in the lower classes, then fine. But this is a 4A forum and we are talking about one school. And doing it with the 29th biggest school in the state according to the 2018-19 BEDs Totals. And if you want to talk about resources, there is not a big difference between the resources at any of the suburban DSM schools and Dowling.

Oh, is this the part of the year where we hear people complain about recruiting at Dowling? The Maroons have won 5 straight titles and are putting kids into D1 schools (finally). Coach Wilson runs a great program. Sorry, but you don't need to recruit when you're on that run.

 

[GatorBait1988]

This is a comical conversation. If you're talking about separating out parochial schools in the lower classes, then fine. But this is a 4A forum and we are talking about one school. And doing it with the 29th biggest school in the state according to the 2018-19 BEDs Totals. And if you want to talk about resources, there is not a big difference between the resources at any of the suburban DSM schools and Dowling.

Oh, is this the part of the year where we hear people complain about recruiting at Dowling? The Maroons have won 5 straight titles and are putting kids into D1 schools (finally). Coach Wilson runs a great program. Sorry, but you don't need to recruit when you're on that run.

I think you are missing my point. Probably my fault for not conveying clear enough.

My problem with the parochial set up is different transfer rules. Period. I'm not into monetary value. I believe Dowling, Valley, Johnston, and Waukee are relatively close in how much disposable income parents have in these areas. I believe Dowling has more, but that isn't the determining factor in what wins them titles. I also agree that there isn't enough 4A parochial schools to merit a separate classification, but it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth how kids are able to transfer into the program and have different rules than if a kid transfers into a non-parochial school. Do we know if it's happening, no. Does it matter to me, no. The fact that they have the ability to if they wanted is enough to merit a rule analysis, in my opinion.

In my opinion, rules should be the same for every school competing for the same title. Period.

 

[GoBigD6788]

I think you are missing my point. Probably my fault for not conveying clear enough.

My problem with the parochial set up is different transfer rules. Period. I'm not into monetary value. I believe Dowling, Valley, Johnston, and Waukee are relatively close in how much disposable income parents have in these areas. I believe Dowling has more, but that isn't the determining factor in what wins them titles. I also agree that there isn't enough 4A parochial schools to merit a separate classification, but it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth how kids are able to transfer into the program and have different rules than if a kid transfers into a non-parochial school. Do we know if it's happening, no. Does it matter to me, no. The fact that they have the ability to if they wanted is enough to merit a rule analysis, in my opinion.

In my opinion, rules should be the same for every school competing for the same title. Period.

I look forward to the day when Dowling can get taxpayer money from the district to build their own stadium. The rules already don't apply to everyone equally. And correct me if I'm wrong but kids can and have open enrolled at public schools.

 

[GatorBait1988]

I look forward to the day when Dowling can get taxpayer money from the district to build their own stadium. The rules already don't apply to everyone equally. And correct me if I'm wrong but kids can and have open enrolled at public schools.

*Insert comment about churches paying taxes*

I believe the rule with transfers for public schooling is if you transfer after your 9th grade year there's a waiting period on when you can start participating in extra curricular activities. The way you don't have to abide by the grace period is if your family moves into the district or if you can prove that the school you are moving into offers academics that the school you are transferring from doesn't.

This is a non issue for most people in the Metro. Every school is within reason to transport your kid too.

 

[franky1967]

I look forward to the day when Dowling can get taxpayer money from the district to build their own stadium. The rules already don't apply to everyone equally. And correct me if I'm wrong but kids can and have open enrolled at public schools.

I always wondered why Dowling did not have their own Stadium. I would think that after all this time someone would have gifted them money through a "Will" or something.

I always liked Dowling and never pay attention to all this recuiting stuff accusations. Dowling can only put 11 people on the field at once. You can either beat them or you cannot.

Waterloo Columbus is a prime example of a Catholic School, who plays with what they are given and they have really struggled as a program.

If they are recuiting Cedar Falls/Waterloo, then they are not doing a very good job.

 

[CF_93]

I always wondered why Dowling did not have their own Stadium. I would think that after all this time someone would have gifted them money through a "Will" or something.

I always liked Dowling and never pay attention to all this recuiting stuff accusations. Dowling can only put 11 people on the field at once. You can either beat them or you cannot.

Waterloo Columbus is a prime example of a Catholic School, who plays with what they are given and they have really struggled as a program.

If they are recuiting Cedar Falls/Waterloo, then they are not doing a very good job.

I think Columbus has just fallen off the same as East and West has. There are a multitude of factors going on in the city of Waterloo that may be holding all three of those schools back, from demographics, economics, culture, you name it. But at least Columbus has won championships at the 3A and 2A levels in the past. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that Columbus’ demise has mirrored that of East and West.

 

[GoBigD6788]

*Insert comment about churches paying taxes*

I believe the rule with transfers for public schooling is if you transfer after your 9th grade year there's a waiting period on when you can start participating in extra curricular activities. The way you don't have to abide by the grace period is if your family moves into the district or if you can prove that the school you are moving into offers academics that the school you are transferring from doesn't.

This is a non issue for most people in the Metro. Every school is within reason to transport your kid too.

1. Is Dowling a Catholic parish?
2. Every Dowling parent pays the same taxes that everyone else pays that go into public schools.

 

[KidSilverhair]

Do we know if it's happening, no. Does it matter to me, no. The fact that they have the ability to if they wanted is enough to merit a rule analysis, in my opinion.

In my opinion, rules should be the same for every school competing for the same title. Period.

And yet it matters enough that you're posting about it and calling for the rules to be changed.

First, quote me the rules that are different for transfers to public schools and parochial schools. I admit I am not an expert and could be completely wrong about this, but I do not believe there is any different rule. Iowa has open enrollment; if the district you want to attend has an opening and is taking students, you can enroll in that district whether you live in it or not. I realize there are rules about extracurricular participation for transfers, but you'll have to show me where it's different for public and parochial schools.

That point said, in my opinion it seems clear Dowling has poached players from other programs in the past. Doesn't mean they're breaking the rules, necessarily, but yeah ...

 

[GoBigD6788]

And I would say that other schools have poached players from other programs as well. But to try and make the argument that Dowling is the only program that benefits from this is ridiculous. Also, if Dowling has always done this, why wasn't it as big of an issue before 2000?

 

[CFTigers68]

I don't want to get into any discussion of recruiting and all of that. My point has to do with suburbs and communities with more affluence than other areas. Dowling's support is likely to be more affluent considering many are paying private tuition and paying taxes to the public schools. But that is not always the case.

 

[CFTigers68]

I look forward to the day when Dowling can get taxpayer money from the district to build their own stadium. The rules already don't apply to everyone equally. And correct me if I'm wrong but kids can and have open enrolled at public schools.

Dowling should never get taxpayer money for a stadium. Nor should any other private school.

 

[CFTigers68]

Honestly I think the State is lucky Waterloo East just dropped a class. The Waterloo Schools already have just one swim team.

Even dropping a class is not helping East and may never help. West/East Combined would be hard to stop

I am very familiar with the coaches at East right now. They are doing all they can to introduce a culture there to get them off the mat. I want to see them be successful at 3A and root for them. A single Waterloo high school has the potential to be very good....but won't happen.

 

[GatorBait1988]

And yet it matters enough that you're posting about it and calling for the rules to be changed.

First, quote me the rules that are different for transfers to public schools and parochial schools. I admit I am not an expert and could be completely wrong about this, but I do not believe there is any different rule. Iowa has open enrollment; if the district you want to attend has an opening and is taking students, you can enroll in that district whether you live in it or not. I realize there are rules about extracurricular participation for transfers, but you'll have to show me where it's different for public and parochial schools.

That point said, in my opinion it seems clear Dowling has poached players from other programs in the past. Doesn't mean they're breaking the rules, necessarily, but yeah ...

I will preface that I could/can be wrong as well, wouldn't be the first or the last.

My understanding of "Open Enrollment" is that it's the act of a student from one district open enrolling to another school in a different district. I was always under the impression that parochial schools don't have districts since districts are drawn for public schools based on geographic proximity whereas parochial schools enrollment is solely based on a belief pattern.

So....if an individual lived in the City of Des Moines school district they may be able to transfer from Hoover to East with immediate eligibility, but they couldn't transfer to Valley with immediate eligibility.

If an individual wanted to attend Dowling I don't believe that counts as "Open Enrollment" since Dowling doesn't have an actual school district based on geographic proximity to the school.

Again.....I could be wrong.

 

[Reasoned]

Dowling should never get taxpayer money for a stadium. Nor should any other private school.

Not knowing what the financial arrangement with WDV is for playing at Valley stadium, given the proximity to Dowling HS and the quality of the venue, my guess is there's no desire to build.

 

[GoBigD6788]

Dowling should never get taxpayer money for a stadium. Nor should any other private school.

You missed the obvious sarcasm font. My point was that schools already are not on equal footing since public schools get taxpayer money to pay for things like stadiums and facilities. Having full knowledge of the financial arrangement with the West Des Moines Community School district, Dowling does not want to buy land and build a football stadium since it would not be possible to do on campus. They pay rent per game played and all concession stand money goes to WDMCS.

And Dowling pulls quite a few kids who would be in the DM public school district if not for going parochial. Would argue that there are more non-affluent parents than say Waukee.

 

[GatorBait1988]

You missed the obvious sarcasm font. My point was that schools already are not on equal footing since public schools get taxpayer money to pay for things like stadiums and facilities. Having full knowledge of the financial arrangement with the West Des Moines Community School district, Dowling does not want to buy land and build a football stadium since it would not be possible to do on campus. They pay rent per game played and all concession stand money goes to WDMCS.

And Dowling pulls quite a few kids who would be in the DM public school district if not for going parochial. Would argue that there are more non-affluent parents than say Waukee.

Wait....you honestly believe that Dowling isn't on equal footing since they don't receive tax dollars? I hope this is sarcasm.

Also, ALL money from the concession stand goes to who? West Des Moines Community School District? I am assuming it's ALL of the money after costs are paid. Unless the WDSM School District purchases all of the concessions. If Dowling purchases the concessions and still only gets to cover the costs, then that's ridiculous. I've seen deals where they have to pay 50% of profits to the landlord, but 100% of profits seems ridiculous. Especially since Dowling draws large crowds.

 

[CFTigers68]

You missed the obvious sarcasm font. My point was that schools already are not on equal footing since public schools get taxpayer money to pay for things like stadiums and facilities. Having full knowledge of the financial arrangement with the West Des Moines Community School district, Dowling does not want to buy land and build a football stadium since it would not be possible to do on campus. They pay rent per game played and all concession stand money goes to WDMCS.

And Dowling pulls quite a few kids who would be in the DM public school district if not for going parochial. Would argue that there are more non-affluent parents than say Waukee.

Yeah, I missed that. No one has to attend Dowling, so any argument about equal footing is meaningless. And everyone recruits, just in different ways. Job here, apartment there, oh well.

 

[VerbumDei]

Wait....you honestly believe that Dowling isn't on equal footing since they don't receive tax dollars? I hope this is sarcasm.

Also, ALL money from the concession stand goes to who? West Des Moines Community School District? I am assuming it's ALL of the money after costs are paid. Unless the WDSM School District purchases all of the concessions. If Dowling purchases the concessions and still only gets to cover the costs, then that's ridiculous. I've seen deals where they have to pay 50% of profits to the landlord, but 100% of profits seems ridiculous. Especially since Dowling draws large crowds.

When Dowling uses Valley Stadium for its home games, it pays rent and gets to keep the gate. But Valley runs the concession stands at its stadium for ALL events, which includes Dowling "home" games. Dowling is not involved in running the concessions.

 

[cidhawkeye]

I'd put a large wager on Dowling over them if they would meet.

The game is on TV so

I will preface that I could/can be wrong as well, wouldn't be the first or the last.

My understanding of "Open Enrollment" is that it's the act of a student from one district open enrolling to another school in a different district. I was always under the impression that parochial schools don't have districts since districts are drawn for public schools based on geographic proximity whereas parochial schools enrollment is solely based on a belief pattern.

So....if an individual lived in the City of Des Moines school district they may be able to transfer from Hoover to East with immediate eligibility, but they couldn't transfer to Valley with immediate eligibility.

If an individual wanted to attend Dowling I don't believe that counts as "Open Enrollment" since Dowling doesn't have an actual school district based on geographic proximity to the school.

Again.....I could be wrong.

Transferring into a private school carries the same requirements/sitting out as going into a public school. Plus you get to pay tuition.

 

[GatorBait1988]

The game is on TV so


Transferring into a private school carries the same requirements/sitting out as going into a public school. Plus you get to pay tuition.

So I'm assuming the rule is based on school and not district? So if you would transfer within district would you still have to sit out? Like if you transferred from Des Moines East to Des Moines Hoover.

 

[cidhawkeye]

So I'm assuming the rule is based on school and not district? So if you would transfer within district would you still have to sit out? Like if you transferred from Des Moines East to Des Moines Hoover.

That is correct.

 

[GatorBait1988]

That is correct.

The rule is confusing, it uses both "school" and "district".

It actually states that a district that has more than one high school in it can set their own rules.

I always thought the state left parochial schools alone due to the fact that they didn't want the negative press in regards to in a sense punishing a kid for going to a parochial school.

Thanks for the heads up though!

 

[woodsiding]

And yet it matters enough that you're posting about it and calling for the rules to be changed.

First, quote me the rules that are different for transfers to public schools and parochial schools. I admit I am not an expert and could be completely wrong about this, but I do not believe there is any different rule. Iowa has open enrollment; if the district you want to attend has an opening and is taking students, you can enroll in that district whether you live in it or not. I realize there are rules about extracurricular participation for transfers, but you'll have to show me where it's different for public and parochial schools.

That point said, in my opinion it seems clear Dowling has poached players from other programs in the past. Doesn't mean they're breaking the rules, necessarily, but yeah ...

These conversations make a person appreciate Xavier a little more. Been following Cedar Rapids football a long time and really can't remember many kids that left their school to go to Xavier. They really do coach and develop their own players. I've also never heard of Xavier players finishing the football season and transferring back to their home school. At Dowling, that's when it really looks like renting talent to win a title, when players get there before their jr year and leave after their senior season to graduate from their hometown school.

 

[franky1967]

These conversations make a person appreciate Xavier a little more. Been following Cedar Rapids football a long time and really can't remember many kids that left their school to go to Xavier. They really do coach and develop their own players. I've also never heard of Xavier players finishing the football season and transferring back to their home school. At Dowling, that's when it really looks like renting talent to win a title, when players get there before their jr year and leave after their senior season to graduate from their hometown school.

I know that the WD Valley QB, is originally from CR Washington. Thats where his dad coached.

However they moved to Des Moines. I was actually suprised his dad is not on the Staff. He coached at many levels.

 

[cidhawkeye]

I know that the WD Valley QB, is originally from CR Washington. Thats where his dad coached.

However they moved to Des Moines. I was actually suprised his dad is not on the Staff. He coached at many levels.

Is he able to get back in coaching?

 

[oldtimefootball]

He coached for a bit on the lower level Valley teams before “leaving” to coach small college ball in Wisconsin I believe.

Wasn’t too welcome due to his on field ( and reported off the field ) behaviors.

 

[oldtimefootball]

Woodsiding - care to elaborate on “players get there before their jr. year and leave after their senior season to graduate with their hometown school”?

 

[franky1967]

Is he able to get back in coaching?

I do not know that, he was let go. However did a great job at Washington.

 

[KidSilverhair]

And if you’re talking about Tony Lombardi (and you are), his son Rocky who played at Valley is now a redshirt freshman, stepping into the QB position at Michigan State after the regular starter was hurt. Rocky earned Big 10 freshman player of the week a couple of weeks ago.

 

[oldtimefootball]

Correct, and younger brother just finished senior year as Valley qb.

 

[Cc5db]

what are the rules for open enrollment at the suburban metro schools, I know some are closed, except for special circumstances. If those schools all allowed it each year, I doubt DCHS would have their run of titles. Could you imagine the team of transfers between Valley/Waukee or Centennial/Ankeny?