New State Tournament Schedule

[sarcastico]

What is everyone's thoughts on the new schedule for State? For those who don't know, they have gotten rid of Saturday and will play all the games in 5 days. So 7 games on Monday and Tuesday starting at 9:30 with the final game tipping off at 8:15. Then 6 games the last three days from 10:30 to 8:15. They moved a lot of the semi-final games up a day and will now have all four championship games on Friday.

The big plus for the move is obviously having all four championship games played consecutively on Friday. That will be pretty sweet. The other nice thing is they are getting rid of the 2 sessions every day so one ticket will get you a whole day's worth of basketball and you don't have to leave the arena for half an hour between the day and night sessions anymore. It will be interesting to see if they raise the ticket price with that move. I am guessing they will.

The big downside I see is how difficult it will be for fans who don't live in central Iowa to get to all their team's games, especially for 1A and 2A teams. They will be playing on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Which means people will either have to do a lot of driving back and forth, take more time off work, or just not come down and watch the games. I guess we will just have to see what kind of impact this move has on attendance. I think it will make for a huge Friday crowd but the other games might see a bit of a dip.

 

[iowalongs230]

As a IA parent, I am really, really disappointed.

• 1st 1A quarterfinal starts at 9:30am on Monday morning. 9:30am!!!
• No 1A or 2A consolation games. I know the consolation games were not well-attended, but I think they are still important to the team that gets 3rd place. And if they're a problem, why still have the 3A and 4A consolation games? Seems biased against small schools to me.
• I really dislike have all 4 games on Friday back to back to back to back. Instead of the 1A and 2A schools having the "spotlight" on Friday night, they are crammed into Friday afternoon starting at 2pm. A championship game starting at 2 in the afternoon???

Just seems like another situation (like the television contract) where the association put grabbing a few extra dollars over the interests of the schools and athletes.

 

[EastIowaHawk]

I liked it the way it was.

 

[sarcastico]

As a IA parent, I am really, really disappointed.

• 1st 1A quarterfinal starts at 9:30am on Monday morning. 9:30am!!!
• No 1A or 2A consolation games. I know the consolation games were not well-attended, but I think they are still important to the team that gets 3rd place. And if they're a problem, why still have the 3A and 4A consolation games? Seems biased against small schools to me.
• I really dislike have all 4 games on Friday back to back to back to back. Instead of the 1A and 2A schools having the "spotlight" on Friday night, they are crammed into Friday afternoon starting at 2pm. A championship game starting at 2 in the afternoon???

Just seems like another situation (like the television contract) where the association put grabbing a few extra dollars over the interests of the schools and athletes.

I agree with much of that, although the schedule on the IAHSAA website still has the 1A and 2A consolation games listed. Overall though I think the whole move is kind of a big screw you to the smaller classes.

 

[iowalongs230]

I agree with much of that, although the schedule on the IAHSAA website still has the 1A and 2A consolation games listed. Overall though I think the whole move is kind of a big screw you to the smaller classes.

Thanks for pointing that out, I see that now...they're on Thursday morning.

Well, my other 2 points still stand. My best guess is it's just a money-saving move because they don't have to rent the building on Saturday. Do we really think any of the schools or the public was clamoring for any of these changes?

 

[VanderHoops]

Good: All consolation games are in morning: 1A/2A on Thurs, big schools on Friday
Good: 1 entry for the hoops junkies that watch all the games
Good: Back to Back to Back to Back Championship games (if you want to watch all the best)
Bad: MORE driving for a lot of fans (bad for hotels/dining in DM too)
Bad: Afternoon championship for small schools if you're watching on TV/online (of course a LOT of us are blacked out anyway)
Bad: Expect that 8:15 tip off to be a lot later if things don't go perfect

 

[Red87]

Only quibble I have right now is the order of championship games (games in general). 4A is generally the least attended of all the contests, and yet the state treats it as the headline class. I would have 4A go first or second, and culminate in 3A or 2A, which is normally a great game.

 

[EHS1505]

Having been around large school and small school communities, I do not understand the poor attendance that Red alludes to at 4A schools. It's a real thing... just don't understand it. 4A student sections are generally bigger than 1A/2A, but not by nearly as much as they should be based purely on enrollment and the adult attendance is essentially family plus a handful of close friends while 1A/2A seem to be the entire towns. I get that Iowa City/Sioux City/Des Moines/etc aren't going to shut down when 1 of their schools play, but you'd think it would still have some type of significant draw for the community.

 

[Red87]

Having been around large school and small school communities, I do not understand the poor attendance that Red alludes to at 4A schools. It's a real thing... just don't understand it. 4A student sections are generally bigger than 1A/2A, but not by nearly as much as they should be based purely on enrollment and the adult attendance is essentially family plus a handful of close friends while 1A/2A seem to be the entire towns. I get that Iowa City/Sioux City/Des Moines/etc aren't going to shut down when 1 of their schools play, but you'd think it would still have some type of significant draw for the community.

I would argue that their student sections are often much smaller than 1A-3A student sections. The obvious answer is that public 1A-3A schools are "town schools," thus it's a community event. Most 4A schools are so big (and there are exceptions obviously; the Dubuque Schools travel very well) that most kids and their parents/families are generally only interested in whatever they're involved in and they tend to be a bit more segmented.

 

[EHS1505]

I would argue that their student sections are often much smaller than 1A-3A student sections. The obvious answer is that public 1A-3A schools are "town schools," thus it's a community event. Most 4A schools are so big (and there are exceptions obviously; the Dubuque Schools travel very well) that most kids and their parents/families are generally only interested in whatever they're involved in and they tend to be a bit more segmented.

I was just thinking back to footage of the 4A football title game this year. Felt like the shots of the student section in that game vs the other games gave an appearance that the 4A student sections were larger. I haven't personally attended the basketball state tournament in well over a decade and don't really remember footage from live feeds last year. I do know that the center of the seating ("adult/community section") always seems thinner during 4A though.

 

[Iowamavs14]

Don't like the change! In the past my sons and I always went down on Thursday's for all the 1a thru 3a semi final games. Definitely the best day at the boys state tourney. Games were generally very good and it was fun to watch all the schools/fans shuffle in and out all day. The day just had a great feel to it. We would find great seats after the first session, grab the state tourney guide, enjoy the games, talk stats, state history, etc.. just a fun day for my boys and I. Really disappointed.

 

[Iowamavs14]

Oh yeah. We ate junk food all day. Fruit slushies and frosted donuts. Kids looked forward to the day every year and it helped drive their passion for the sport and a chance to play at State.

 

[Bulldog198240]

Sorry for all you 1A -2A people but I like the change...Championship Friday baby! I’ll spend most of Tuesday and then Wednesday-Friday at the Well and enjoy every minute. I think it’s a great change. Saturday was a wasted day and ruined the week.

 

[Greenway12]

Don't mind the new schedule but why have championships on Friday? Why not have them on Saturday? Go Tuesday thru Saturday. I thought the Boone geniuses wanted better attendance...

 

[iowalongs230]

There must be a monetary reason behind. I'm guessing it costs more to have the Well on Saturday than it would on other days because a Saturday night would be in high demand for other events.

Upon further research, here's your answer: the Iowa Barnstormers have a home game on Saturday, March 10.

 

[sarcastico]

There must be a monetary reason behind. I'm guessing it costs more to have the Well on Saturday than it would on other days because a Saturday night would be in high demand for other events.

Upon further research, here's your answer: the Iowa Barnstormers have a home game on Saturday, March 10.

Here is a quote from the press release last August; “Our goal in moving the state basketball tournament to a 5-day event is to reduce conflicts with college basketball tournaments and spring breaks that many school districts are engaged in and provide our schools, communities and fans a shorter tournament week experience."

I don't really buy it. I can't envision many fans were really clamoring for a "shorter tournament week experience". If anything they have made it more challenging for schools, communities, and fans to get to the games. I also can't figure out what college basketball conflict they are talking about. The Big 12 Tourney? Most decisions the association makes seems to be motivated primarily by money so I am sure that is a large reason for the change. You may be right about the weekend cost.

 

[EHS1505]

I think the Barnstormer issue potentially played a factor. If you push the tournament to end on Friday instead of Saturday, you never run into that potential conflict in planning. It makes it easier for both parties.

Would also agree monetary issues (renting it 1 less day) is another major factor.

As someone that doesn't regularly attend in person, it makes sense to me. I do sympathize with those that will have increased travel expenses/requirements as a result though.

Not sure what carriers you all have for TV, but I've never ran into an issue (blackout) with DirecTV viewing any of the state tournaments whether through online login or using home TV system. I don't know what the stipulations are for it though, so maybe living on the west side of the state makes a difference?

 

[ISUChip]

Not sure what carriers you all have for TV, but I've never ran into an issue (blackout) with DirecTV viewing any of the state tournaments whether through online login or using home TV system. I don't know what the stipulations are for it though, so maybe living on the west side of the state makes a difference?

Because DTV, Dish, and eastern Iowa Mediacom all carry Comcast (NBC Sports) Chicago, whereas almost no cable systems in 712 or 515 offer it.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

They're trying to trick people into disliking these changes so much that they'll come running to the four regions/final four proposal that came out a few years ago.



But we see through their lies.

 

[StatewidePundit]

There must be a monetary reason behind. I'm guessing it costs more to have the Well on Saturday than it would on other days because a Saturday night would be in high demand for other events.

Upon further research, here's your answer: the Iowa Barnstormers have a home game on Saturday, March 10.

Of course there is an angle in anything these scammers from the IHSAA do.

Anyone figure out the TV scam yet ? that Nwest newspaper guy had Krogman quite defensive by just asking the basic question ? why are the Iowa championships not available to all Iowans ? Even mouth piece Beste couldn’t give a straight answer, just his usual nonsensical excuses.

Btw, why was Krogman allowed to start the secretive IHSSN? Oh that’s right , it’s another scam.

 

[Greenway12]

State tournament paid attendance since 2009:

2009 - 78,782
2010 - 77,715
2011 - 70,215
2012 - 68,785
2013 - 59,373
2014 - 55,011
2015 - 57,043
2016 - 54,027
2017 - 54,999

http://www.iahsaa.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/2018_BSKT-StatBook_tl.pdf

Not buying the Barnstormers angle. The boys tourney has played on Saturday for decades and could've had Wells Fargo on Sat if they wanted. My guess is the Barnstormers are playing there on Saturday because it was open after Boone decided to go Mon-Fri to save costs due to the steep decline in attendance.

 

[iowalongs230]

I wasn't suggesting they did it BECAUSE of the Barnstormers. I was simply saying they did it to save money by reducing the number of days they were renting the facility, and when someone wondered why they chose Monday through Friday rather than Tuesday-Saturday, I speculated that it was because M-F would be cheaper than T-S because the Well would have high demand for Saturday night for other events. I think the fact that the Barnstormers are playing Saturday night gives credence to that speculation, that Saturday night is a valuable time slot.

 

[iowalongs230]

Your attendance numbers are very interesting by the way, thanks for posting those. Why do you all think attendance has declined so dramatically in the last decade?

 

[Greenway12]

I wasn't suggesting they did it BECAUSE of the Barnstormers. I was simply saying they did it to save money by reducing the number of days they were renting the facility, and when someone wondered why they chose Monday through Friday rather than Tuesday-Saturday, I speculated that it was because M-F would be cheaper than T-S because the Well would have high demand for Saturday night for other events. I think the fact that the Barnstormers are playing Saturday night gives credence to that speculation, that Saturday night is a valuable time slot.

Got it. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[EHS1505]

Your attendance numbers are very interesting by the way, thanks for posting those. Why do you all think attendance has declined so dramatically in the last decade?

Streaming? Only thing I can think of... from 10-12 you had McDermott/Barnes/Paige which probably still drew people to watch in person. Still a lot of talent in the state after they all moved on, but not as much media/national attention and definitely more consistent access to high speed internet in the average household.

 

[Bulldog198240]

Your attendance numbers are very interesting by the way, thanks for posting those. Why do you all think attendance has declined so dramatically in the last decade?

Because most of the matchups have been horrible… They’ve not done a good job at getting the best teams there

Also March madness time as well as streaming video, And the Saturday championships have not been exciting and the consolations are a waste of time

 

[PNation]

I do think that streaming has a lot to do with it, unless you are a fan of a team playing or have a family member playing, or a coach, what is your motivation to drive to Des Moines to watch now that there is streaming of every game. I would also say that Wells Fargo while being a very nice arena doesn't have the same feeling that Vets had, I know that is brought up a lot with wrestling, but to me it kind of has a sterile feeling and you are so far away from the floor.

 

[sarcastico]

I found this interesting looking through the numbers as well;

Friday Night Session Saturday Night Session
2007 ......................................... 5,559 2007.......................................... 6,699
2008 ......................................... 5,892 2008.......................................... 7,634
2009 ..........................................5,898 2009........................................ 11,411
2010 ..........................................5,495 2010........................................ 12,547 (Harrison Barnes sure drew a crowd)
2011 ..........................................6,743 2011.......................................... 7,727
2012 ..........................................5,913 2012.......................................... 6,981
2013 ......................................... 6,376 2013.......................................... 5,821
2014 ......................................... 5,067 2014.......................................... 5,725
2015 ......................................... 4,723 2015.......................................... 5,772
2016 ......................................... 4.497 2016.......................................... 4,718
2017 ......................................... 4,911 2017.......................................... 4,156

Seems like both nights have been trending downwards, but Saturday night has really dropped off the last couple of years. The last 5 years the smaller classes are bringing in just as large of a crowd as the bigger two. Could very well be why they decided to drop it.

As to why, I am guessing it is a number of reasons and I doubt you can pinpoint one thing. Streaming I am sure plays a role. I also think people just aren't as into high school basketball games in general anymore. District attendance numbers have also been declining over the years. I can see it when I go to regular season games as well. The crowds are just down. For whatever reason people just aren't showing up to games like they used to.

I do think the teams making it to state might have something to do with it as well. A lot of the same teams have been making it recently in all classes. The more a team makes it to state the smaller the fan following seems to be.You get a school that hasn't been there in a while and they bring a huge crowd. Western Christian for example was bringing a huge crowd in the mid 2000's but fewer people are making the trip in recent years. The excitement level is just not the same. In 3A Xavier always has by far the smallest crowd and has played on Saturday night these past two years. I think that has to be a big factor for the smaller numbers.

I don't think the changes will do much of anything to help increase attendance for the whole week. Sure Friday will be huge but I'm guessing the week will be close to the same. I'm sure it will save them money though. Which is probably why they did it as they are clearly bringing in less in ticket sales.

 

[Hawki45]

Spring Break plays into it as well. A lot of schools are either on break that week, or start the next week and families leave early. I don’t think there will ever be a “perfect” solution, so might as well try a Championship Friday set up and see how it goes.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

I found this interesting looking through the numbers as well;

Friday Night Session Saturday Night Session
2007 ......................................... 5,559 2007.......................................... 6,699
2008 ......................................... 5,892 2008.......................................... 7,634
2009 ..........................................5,898 2009........................................ 11,411
2010 ..........................................5,495 2010........................................ 12,547 (Harrison Barnes sure drew a crowd)
2011 ..........................................6,743 2011.......................................... 7,727
2012 ..........................................5,913 2012.......................................... 6,981
2013 ......................................... 6,376 2013.......................................... 5,821
2014 ......................................... 5,067 2014.......................................... 5,725
2015 ......................................... 4,723 2015.......................................... 5,772
2016 ......................................... 4.497 2016.......................................... 4,718
2017 ......................................... 4,911 2017.......................................... 4,156

Seems like both nights have been trending downwards, but Saturday night has really dropped off the last couple of years. The last 5 years the smaller classes are bringing in just as large of a crowd as the bigger two. Could very well be why they decided to drop it.

As to why, I am guessing it is a number of reasons and I doubt you can pinpoint one thing. Streaming I am sure plays a role. I also think people just aren't as into high school basketball games in general anymore. District attendance numbers have also been declining over the years. I can see it when I go to regular season games as well. The crowds are just down. For whatever reason people just aren't showing up to games like they used to.

I do think the teams making it to state might have something to do with it as well. A lot of the same teams have been making it recently in all classes. The more a team makes it to state the smaller the fan following seems to be.You get a school that hasn't been there in a while and they bring a huge crowd. Western Christian for example was bringing a huge crowd in the mid 2000's but fewer people are making the trip in recent years. The excitement level is just not the same. In 3A Xavier always has by far the smallest crowd and has played on Saturday night these past two years. I think that has to be a big factor for the smaller numbers.

I don't think the changes will do much of anything to help increase attendance for the whole week. Sure Friday will be huge but I'm guessing the week will be close to the same. I'm sure it will save them money though. Which is probably why they did it as they are clearly bringing in less in ticket sales.

You basically brought up everything I was gonna say.

The State tourney needs new blood, but they also need the casuals to stop being lazy.

 

[ISUChip]

I don't think the changes will do much of anything to help increase attendance for the whole week. Sure Friday will be huge but I'm guessing the week will be close to the same. I'm sure it will save them money though. Which is probably why they did it as they are clearly bringing in less in ticket sales.

With only one session per day, paid attendance will automatically go down unless they count it differently.

Previously, if I wanted to attend all day Tuesday (for example), I'd need 1 ticket for each session. That counts as 2 in the total attendance for the week, even though I'm just 1 person. Now, with only 1 ticket necessary per day (1 session), my "2" becomes "1" in the attendance figures.

 

[BHCrusader2010]

Wasting a non school and workday, Saturday, seems strange. Final 4 presentation seems like the most exciting venue. Huge crowds and state wide interest would be the norm. Of course, in all the genius of the Boone boys, it would be televised in New Hampshire only.