Mini-game: predict the 2A seeds

[HawkPT]

The directive was to consider all factors, not to weight W-L record over all others.

SOS is the only factor PC leads in. How does that make them the "clear #1 seed."?
Garner/Van Meter have the best record, Western leads in most other categories.

Guessing PC just wants to be on the opposite side of the bracket from Western and vise-versa. Actual 1 or 2 is of more interest to the fans.

I didn't see the directive; just passing on what I heard second hand. But, don't you think the fact that PC has the toughest SOS (by a pretty wide margin, mind you) would make it much more difficult to lead in the "best record" category, and a couple more losses makes the human polls, at least, more likely to rank them below strong teams with fewer losses?

I'm not sure what other factors you're considering for WC aside from human and computer polls. Both of those are biased in one way or another. I love BCMoore, and his system is extremely structured and objective, but his calculations give weight to different factors that others might consider more or less important than the weight he gave to them.

So, my point stands. PC has a strong argument for the #1 seed. They might get it; they probably won't. And, yes, I'd prefer to be on the opposite side of WC's bracket, though I'm pretty sure PC understands that to win the championship they'll have to beat three very good teams.

 

[sarcastico]

Ok I will concede. PC has played the hardest schedule 2A basketball has ever seen. No one is even close. Honestly there really are not any other good teams outside the Little Hawkeye to give schools like Western any competition. I don't know why we even bother with state. I am sure the Little Hawkeye teams will just dominate on their way to the title like always...oh wait.

HawkPT I think you might want to look up the definition of fact. It is your opinion that PC has the toughest schedule by a pretty wide margin. As this thread has demonstrated it is an opinion not shared by everyone. I don't get why you Little Hawkeye homers can't admit that it is even conceivable other teams have SOS that are even close to PC's. I don't think anyone is saying Western's was harder, just that they were not behind by a wide margin.

 

[HawkPT]

Ok I will concede. PC has played the hardest schedule 2A basketball has ever seen. No one is even close. Honestly there really are not any other good teams outside the Little Hawkeye to give schools like Western any competition. I don't know why we even bother with state. I am sure the Little Hawkeye teams will just dominate on their way to the title like always...oh wait.

HawkPT I think you might want to look up the definition of fact. It is your opinion that PC has the toughest schedule by a pretty wide margin. As this thread has demonstrated it is an opinion not shared by everyone. I don't get why you Little Hawkeye homers can't admit that it is even conceivable other teams have SOS that are even close to PC's. I don't think anyone is saying Western's was harder, just that they were not behind by a wide margin.

Alrighty then...

For what it's worth, my claim that PC's SOS is stronger by a wide margin is supported by BCMoore data, but when I used that data to support my claim, the phrases "fuzzy math" and "craziest logic" were used in response.

If my argument that PC has a strong case for the #1 seed and the supporting opinion, facts, and data are not acceptable to you, then so be it. I guess we'll just consider this topic a dead horse and I'll stop beating it. It'll be fun to see it play out in real life.

 

[sarcastico]

I never claimed fuzzy math or crazy logic. I get what you are saying with BC's data. You just seem to completely ignore the fact Western beat two top 5 SD teams which is not properly calculated into that data. So you are not using all the facts and data in your argument. If you want to ignore facts to support your argument then so be it.

 

[HawkPT]

It's a fair point that I'm not taking into account the South Dakota teams, but I'm not ignoring facts and data. We don't have data to support how good those SD teams are relative to the Iowa teams. So, I would say that I'm using all the facts and data, just not the eye test opinion on the SD teams. I haven't seen a majority of Iowa teams, but at least I have some data to support their strength thanks to BCMoore. For all I know, a top 5 SD team could be the equivalent of a #40 Iowa team.

Personally, I'm more surprised that someone didn't claim that I was cherry picking data by using the pre-tournament BCMoore strength of schedule to highlight the difference between PC's and WC's schedule strength.

 

[GatorBait1988]

Calculating in two wins from SD has no merit. We don't know the competition in SD, it could be weaker or stronger, no basis, therefore, it's null. Give them a pat on the back for winning those games, no one is taking away the wins, we are just stating you can't compare to Iowa schools.

What we DO know is PC's schedule and WC's schedule (In Iowa) and those aren't close. Even if we would rank those two SD teams as top 10 teams in Iowa, would that be enough to move them past PC?

Maybe BC can weigh in on that point with explaining his algorithm?

Let's also not play the martyr game of "PC has the toughest schedule 2A has ever seen", you just sound like a child.

Rule 1: Be logical
Rule 2: Don't be emotional
Rule 3: Repeat Rule 1

 

[HawkPT]

And I know that you didn't claim fuzzy math or crazy logic, Sarcastico, but those claims were made.

 

[sarcastico]

You both have clearly never actually watched SD basketball. It isn't as good as Iowa, but it is not bad ball by any means. Like I said earlier I am fairly certain Sioux Falls Christian would be a top 10 2A team in Iowa. They did also beat Unity and MOC by 26 and 30 respectively. So we have some idea how they stack up against Iowa competition. They are definitely better than #40. But I guess BCMoore can't prove that so it will never matter to you.

I am done arguing this, it is pointless. You maintain out of state wins don't factor into schedule strength. I maintain they do. I don't think we are ever going to agree on that point. I guess we will just have to see how it plays out.

 

[Bbvr]

LMAO the bottom line with this Fella's is that it doesn't matter who's the one or two seed they both will be in opposite sides of the bracket. Last time I checked the number one seed didn't get a trophy or anything did they?

 

[allsport05]

Western is the returning state champions in 2A, they deserve the #1 seed until someone knocks them off.

 

[HawkPT]

You both have clearly never actually watched SD basketball. It isn't as good as Iowa, but it is not bad ball by any means. Like I said earlier I am fairly certain Sioux Falls Christian would be a top 10 2A team in Iowa. They did also beat Unity and MOC by 26 and 30 respectively. So we have some idea how they stack up against Iowa competition. They are definitely better than #40. But I guess BCMoore can't prove that so it will never matter to you.

I am done arguing this, it is pointless. You maintain out of state wins don't factor into schedule strength. I maintain they do. I don't think we are ever going to agree on that point. I guess we will just have to see how it plays out.

According to BCMoore, the #38-42 teams in Iowa are Oskaloosa, Heelen, CB Lewis Central, Grinnell, and Camanche. These are not bad teams by any means; they are quite good. How would they do against the South Dakota teams that WC played?

Unity is #91 and MOC is #169.

My guess is that the #38-42 teams would compete pretty well against these SD teams. However, like your statements, it's just a guess and it's only my opinion.

 

[GatorBait1988]

According to BCMoore, the #38-42 teams in Iowa are Oskaloosa, Heelen, CB Lewis Central, Grinnell, and Camanche. These are not bad teams by any means; they are quite good. How would they do against the South Dakota teams that WC played?

Unity is #91 and MOC is #169.

My guess is that the #38-42 teams would compete pretty well against these SD teams. However, like your statements, it's just a guess and it's only my opinion.

I believe he was stating that the 2 SD schools would be top 10 in 2A thus they would be better than the 40th team in 2A.

This is a guess on my behalf.

 

[HawkPT]

I believe he was stating that the 2 SD schools would be top 10 in 2A thus they would be better than the 40th team in 2A.

This is a guess on my behalf.

PC defeated Van Meter and their SOS went down. I'm assuming the same would have happened if WC had defeated them. Still, it's a guess with the SD schools.