Imbalance

[PopFisher]

When you attend Xavier.....you want the best.
The best education. The best athletic training. The Catholic learning environment.

You generally....want to compete against the best.
I seriously doubt the folks at Xavier want to play football in a 3A district that would
potentially contain the following:

(per BCMoore)

Anamosa, worst team in 3A 56 of 56
Benton, 3A 52 of 56
Clear Creek, 3A 39 of 56
Marion, 3A 33 of 56

BCMoore has Xavier as the #4 ranked team in 4A.

I believe some smaller hoops schools have petitioned to be moved up in the past.
I think Des Moines Christian has done this, as well as Danville (maybe).

Hopefully the folks at Xavier are talking with the IAHSAA and sanity will prevail.

I, personally, don't really want to see Xavier and Heelan in the title game every year.

 

[tm3308]

For crying out loud. Why don't some of you go look up just how many private schools have actually brought home the hardware? You'll be surprised at just how often they don't get a ring. Here are all the champions since the finals moved to the Dome in 1972 (Class A and 8-man don't go back that far, but I've listed their private school champs since they started playing)

Class 4A: 7 championships won by private schools (Dowling leads the pack with 4, Heelan has 2 and Xavier has 1). Bettendorf (a public school) has that many title by themselves.

Class 3A: 6 championships [3 by Heelan, 2 by Columbus Waterloo, 1 by CR Regis (now Xavier)]. Harlan has 11, Decorah has 5

Class 2A: 7 championships [2 each by CR LaSalle (now Xavier) and Regina, 1 each by Kuemper, Columbus and Garrigan]. Emmetsburg has 6 (just in class 2A).

Class 1A: 7 championships (4 by St. Albert, 3 by Regina).

Class A: 1 championship (LeMars Gehlen). West Bend-Mallard has 4 since the class was created in 1981.

8-man: 2 (St. Mary's Remsen and Don Bosco). Three different schools (Adair-Casey, Sentral Fenton, and Armstrong-Ringstead) have won a pair of titles since 2000.

That's a total of 30 state championships won by private schools since 1972. There have been a total of 215 state championship games since 1972. That's less than 14 percent. I'm not sure on the exact numbers, but I would guess that private schools make up a similar portion of the total schools in the state.

And they didn't always used to win. St. Albert and Regina are the most notable for have started winning a lot in the last 10 years. But they didn't suddenly show up in Council Bluffs and Iowa City. They've had that metro population advantage for decades but only started reaping the benefits over the last 10 years? How about the countless private schools that don't win anything (DM Christian, Ankeny Christian)?

I used to hate private schools (I graduated from a public school). I beat this argument to death years ago, and now can see pretty clearly that it isn't a big deal. Quite whining and get better. Stop whining about special ed kids and affluence. Especially that last one; think you're going to get a break, when someone with a better resume is competing for the same job as you, by making that person meet a higher standard (making them move up a class)?

 

[Bulldogs1974]

Originally posted by tm3308:
For crying out loud. Why don't some of you go look up just how many private schools have actually brought home the hardware? You'll be surprised at just how often they don't get a ring. Here are all the champions since the finals moved to the Dome in 1972 (Class A and 8-man don't go back that far, but I've listed their private school champs since they started playing)

Class 4A: 7 championships won by private schools (Dowling leads the pack with 4, Heelan has 2 and Xavier has 1). Bettendorf (a public school) has that many title by themselves.

Class 3A: 6 championships [3 by Heelan, 2 by Columbus Waterloo, 1 by CR Regis (now Xavier)]. Harlan has 11, Decorah has 5

Class 2A: 7 championships [2 each by CR LaSalle (now Xavier) and Regina, 1 each by Kuemper, Columbus and Garrigan]. Emmetsburg has 6 (just in class 2A).

Class 1A: 7 championships (4 by St. Albert, 3 by Regina).

Class A: 1 championship (LeMars Gehlen). West Bend-Mallard has 4 since the class was created in 1981.

8-man: 2 (St. Mary's Remsen and Don Bosco). Three different schools (Adair-Casey, Sentral Fenton, and Armstrong-Ringstead) have won a pair of titles since 2000.

That's a total of 30 state championships won by private schools since 1972. There have been a total of 215 state championship games since 1972. That's less than 14 percent. I'm not sure on the exact numbers, but I would guess that private schools make up a similar portion of the total schools in the state.

And they didn't always used to win. St. Albert and Regina are the most notable for have started winning a lot in the last 10 years. But they didn't suddenly show up in Council Bluffs and Iowa City. They've had that metro population advantage for decades but only started reaping the benefits over the last 10 years? How about the countless private schools that don't win anything (DM Christian, Ankeny Christian)?

I used to hate private schools (I graduated from a public school). I beat this argument to death years ago, and now can see pretty clearly that it isn't a big deal. Quite whining and get better. Stop whining about special ed kids and affluence. Especially that last one; think you're going to get a break, when someone with a better resume is competing for the same job as you, by making that person meet a higher standard (making them move up a class)?

Now include how many finals appearances. And then give a percentage of private schools in that class that make the finals, it is completely out of waco.

Whoever made the stupid volleyball comment: have you heard of Wahlert and hull western christian. Holy Crap.....

 

[tm3308]

Originally posted by Roman_Gabriel:
There does not appear to be a level playing field.

Xavier Catholic vs. Dowling Catholic
Bishop Heelan Catholic vs. Solon
Kuemper Catholic vs. Waukon

St. Edmund Catholic vs. Regina Catholic
West Lyon vs. B-G-M
Don Bosco Catholic vs. Exira/Elk Horn-Kimballton

There have been 32 runner-up finishes by private schools since 1972. So, private schools still hold roughly 14% of finals appearances AND championships. Looking at 4A, there are 10 schools that come to mind pretty quickly when you think of the best teams in the state (historically): Valley, SEP, Ankeny (pre-split), Iowa City High, Iowa City West, Cedar Falls, Bettendorf, Xavier, Dowling and Heelan.

In any given year, it's almost a lead pipe cinch that the champ will come from that group (excluding Heelan today). That's a 7-3/7-2 ratio among the top teams; pretty heavily skewed toward the public schools.

I'm more than willing to check other classes in this way, and I plan to check basketball and baseball, too. But based on what I've found thus far in football, the whole argument is nothing but a bunch of sore losers whining because they aren't the big kids on the block anymore. Nobody was bitching when Harlan was raking in titles. It's only become a "problem" now that private schools are actually winning.


This post was edited on 11/27 3:14 PM by tm3308

 

[tfan12345]

I think the schools who have a large population of agriculture in their community should have to play up a class. It is an unfair advantage to have kids on the football team that do farm chores, they have too good of work ethic and is an unfair advantage.
This post was edited on 11/27 5:01 PM by tfan12345

 

[Emerald Street]

Originally posted by MepoDawg#:
If you want to be the best them you must beat the best. It sounds like some public school fans are whining. Who cares if private schools are doing well right now. A lot of those schools haven't been good forever. My high school team used to best Regina all the time in the 90's. People act like the private schools have won every championship and are the only ones to make the playoffs every year. Class 2A last year Mepo beat Beckman and Spirit Lake beat Kuemper in the semis. Mepo got knocked out of the playoffs the 2 previous years by Regina. Did they complain? No, in fact Mepo's coach out Regina on his list of teams to try to play the last 2 years. Would have been a heck of a game last year. If public schools don't like it them they should train harder an get better coaches. It starts with youth football, good coaches, family and community support, good facilities. Mepo hasn't had a problem the last few years. Now they're taking advantage of it and building a new sports complex with turf and starting a soccer program in the spring. The kids have to buy in as well and work hard while staying out of trouble. Just quit complaining because it'll never change to a all private school league. And if they do a multiplier some will still complain. Grow up and focus on bettering your team, players and school not trying to bring others down to your level.


Says the school of open enrollment.

Didn't some kid who started for Burlington as a junior transfer to Mepo and start on the defense as a senior during that championship run? 4A starter down to 2A starter. Not a bad catch.

Keller kid out of Danville a few years back was a good catch as well.

Mepo Dawg has a good point. Good coaches, good facilities attract good talent.

 

[ugtm]

This is a great point. Farm kids give those schools a clear advantage. They probably get up on Sundays to go to church too. crap they probably go to catholic schools in disproportionate numbers that's the issue private schools should be limited on the number of farm kids they can take.

 

[ORSKY1]

Many local schools picked up Burlington kids as the system itself is perceived as flawed. They are leaking kids to numerous schools, so a pick up in all of the local schools is going to happen. Not because of recruiting, but because of parents wanting a better educational environment as a whole.

 

[MepoDawg#]

Burlington kids are leaving the Burlington school district because of various reasons. Bullying, crime, better education etc... And I don't blame them. But before you just ring Mepo into this maybe you should check where most are going. The player you speak of last year moved in. They had a kid move in from Tipton this year. Got something to say about him and his family, too? Also, kids come from Danville for various reasons. They share(d) a wrestling program with Mepo, Come for FFA, like the school better. Yes better athletics has something to do without as it does with a lot of schools. I have no probl with parents wanting their kids to attend a school with good academics and athletics. More power to them if they can swing it. Sounds like people are just jealous that other schools are better and attract families to bring their kids there. Schools want the best of the best, too. What about Morning Sun kids who get to choose between Mediapolis, Wapello, and Winfield-Mt. Union? Some of them are courted at a young age by the schools. Is that wrong?

 

[Emerald Street]

Originally posted by MepoDawg#:
Burlington kids are leaving the Burlington school district because of various reasons. Bullying, crime, better education etc... And I don't blame them. But before you just ring Mepo into this maybe you should check where most are going. The player you speak of last year moved in. They had a kid move in from Tipton this year. Got something to say about him and his family, too? Also, kids come from Danville for various reasons. They share(d) a wrestling program with Mepo, Come for FFA, like the school better. Yes better athletics has something to do without as it does with a lot of schools. I have no probl with parents wanting their kids to attend a school with good academics and athletics. More power to them if they can swing it. Sounds like people are just jealous that other schools are better and attract families to bring their kids there. Schools want the best of the best, too. What about Morning Sun kids who get to choose between Mediapolis, Wapello, and Winfield-Mt. Union? Some of them are courted at a young age by the schools. Is that wrong?

Did the Keller girl wrestle or did she go to mepo because of FFA???
I'm not so sure that Mepo is that far ahead academically than Danville, West Burlington, or Wapello. Is that your argument that Mepo is an academic and FFA juggernaut so they attract kids?

You have an in with the Burlington District do you? Or are you just making assumptions based on the newspaper? I talked to the kid from Burlington's dad after a game one time. He initiated the conversation. I couldn't point him out to you today. But his first words to me were nothing of what you mentioned. They were that "his kid started for Burlington on Defense the year before and the Burlington coach was a xxxxxx that ran the same xxxx and wouldn't change."
Of course the kid "moved in" He wouldn't have been eligible for football if he hadn't!

Tipton Kid, no idea, and nothing to say about him. No idea why he moved in, I've never talked to his dad, and as far as I know his dad never said anything negative about the Tipton football coach.

I'd love to know the names of the Morning Sun kids that are getting courted. I've known dozens of them, and haven't heard of any of them getting courted by coaches, or the school district themselves. I've only heard of peer pressure from friends, family traditions, (example: Malone kids) and School Boards courting the M.S school district to share programs. [/I]

 

[ORSKY1]

Emerald Street, I know the Burlington kid and his dad and I've talked to him several times. He wasn't satisfied at Burlington and wanted to go somewhere else. Nobody from Mepo had anything to do with his going there. If I were dissatisfied with the school and had a child in school in the Burlington area that played football or wrestled, my choice would also be to go to Mepo. If he played basketball it may have been Danville. If it were cross country or swimming, I may recommended that he stick it out at Burlington. I want a school that's best for my kids, that's why communities with rich athletic or academic traditions tend to pick up more students than they loose. If you're implying that a school or it's representative had anything to do with the move then you are just flat our wrong.

 

[tm3308]

Originally posted by MepoDawg#:
Burlington kids are leaving the Burlington school district because of various reasons. Bullying, crime, better education etc... And I don't blame them. But before you just ring Mepo into this maybe you should check where most are going. The player you speak of last year moved in. They had a kid move in from Tipton this year. Got something to say about him and his family, too? Also, kids come from Danville for various reasons. They share(d) a wrestling program with Mepo, Come for FFA, like the school better. Yes better athletics has something to do without as it does with a lot of schools. I have no probl with parents wanting their kids to attend a school with good academics and athletics. More power to them if they can swing it. Sounds like people are just jealous that other schools are better and attract families to bring their kids there. Schools want the best of the best, too. What about Morning Sun kids who get to choose between Mediapolis, Wapello, and Winfield-Mt. Union? Some of them are courted at a young age by the schools. Is that wrong?

Maybe I missed it, but where did he attack the kids (or the families) from Burlington or Danville? All he said was that those were nice catches for Mepo. And he was right about that.

Open enrollment levels the playing field a lot. It'd be one thing if private schools dominated with their ability to recruit when public schools could only accept move-ins, which is the way it was back in the 70s and 80s, when private schools weren't winning championships. But public schools can now bring in kids who don't live in their district, and this is the era when private schools have started raking in quite a few titles.

What's so different for the private schools that they suddenly started winning a lot in an enrollment climate that should help close the gap in any perceived advantages? My guess is that they just have some good groups of kids come through. Hell, Kuemper had never been to the Dome before, and they won a title this year. They probably won't be this good again for quite awhile, with all the guys they lose. Don Bosco will probably take a step back now that their star quarterback is gone.

Dowling and Heelan are the only private schools that have consistently been at or near the top for the last 40 years, in any class. Bettendorf, Harlan, Emmetsburg, Decorah, Valley and Ankeny all fit that description, and there are more schools that have had runs similar to those of Regina/St. Albert (Solon immediately comes to mind).