Conflicting events at state meet.
- Thread starter mknake
- Start date
Why would they have to choose? This is common at almost every track meet. The athlete is allowed to leave a field event to run a race, and can return to the competition without penalty.
This scenario makes a good point. How many HJ competitions overlap with the 400LH in regular one day meets. I would think that the coaches and athletes understand this in advance and would go with their better event with more emphasis and still compete in both if possible. High Jumping well after running the hurdle race would be pretty tough.
Does anyone else feel like moving a sprint relay to Thursday and an open sprint event to Friday would help spread those people out a little better?
It seems odd to have the 100, 200 qualifying rounds & 400 final all on the same day. There's some serious proximity issues there.
It's been done before and will be interesting to see how Harrington deals with it. He's a pretty superior athlete but that 200 prelim to 400 final will be very challenging knowing who else is in that 400 with fresh legs. If he can pull it off, my hat's off to him.
Can you say Treye Jackson of Newton 1981? The last 4A kid to pull it off. Clyde Duncan did it twice for Des Moines North
This post was edited on 5/13 12:56 AM by On Wings of Eagles
This post was edited on 5/13 12:57 AM by On Wings of Eagles
Does anyone else feel like moving a sprint relay to Thursday and an open sprint event to Friday would help spread those people out a little better?
It seems odd to have the 100, 200 qualifying rounds & 400 final all on the same day. There's some serious proximity issues there.
It's been done before and will be interesting to see how Harrington deals with it. He's a pretty superior athlete but that 200 prelim to 400 final will be very challenging knowing who else is in that 400 with fresh legs. If he can pull it off, my hat's off to him.
Can you say Treye Jackson of Newton 1981? The last 4A kid to pull it off. Clyde Duncan did it twice for Des Moines North
This post was edited on 5/13 12:56 AM by On Wings of Eagles
This post was edited on 5/13 12:57 AM by On Wings of Eagles
Why complain about the schedule when everyone knew what it was going to be many weeks prior to the districts meet? Coaches deal with this every year.
Why don't they just make the state meet a whole week? Think of the revenue generated? If they do that they should make districts 3 days to even them out and make it fair.
Allowing teams to "unwind" their relay teams to qualify and then "stack" them at state really shouldn't be allowed. If there was no talent disparity I'd say it's a game anyone can play so allow it, but it gives teams in a weaker district (where they can qualify relays with less than their best talent) an even greater advantage. If the practice is going to be allowed then the field needs to be leveled by increasing the length of the district meets.
Not a fan of unwinding and stacking relays. The whole thing smacks of corruption.
This post was edited on 5/13 9:21 AM by ghost80
Allowing teams to "unwind" their relay teams to qualify and then "stack" them at state really shouldn't be allowed. If there was no talent disparity I'd say it's a game anyone can play so allow it, but it gives teams in a weaker district (where they can qualify relays with less than their best talent) an even greater advantage. If the practice is going to be allowed then the field needs to be leveled by increasing the length of the district meets.
Not a fan of unwinding and stacking relays. The whole thing smacks of corruption.
This post was edited on 5/13 9:21 AM by ghost80
Ok, Mr. Conspiracy Theory, C'mon,"corruption"? You insinuate there is an evil doer plotting against all of us. Could it be Thanos?
If you want a level playing field then you have to do what Texas does. When you compete at Texas State Championships, you are in the final 8 after qualifying through sectionals and regionals. There are no prelims at state, only finals with the 8 best individuals or relays. Winning state in Texas with 50 points or less is doable if you have some real studs but will look less like a "team" doing it.
I'm not sure that's good for the sport here in Iowa although they (Texas) don't have to have a long, drawn out 3 day meet with "slow sections" of anything to wade through. Participation and geographic representation is pretty important here and rightly so. I don't like the 3 day event but it's pretty cool that Iowa can pull it off and still allow a ton of kids to participate.
Therefore, if everyone is dealt the same qualifying rules, then we all have the same opportunities. My suggestion is to get out and recruit more kids so you have some flexibility in your district lineup because if you can't beat them, then join them until the rules change.
This post was edited on 5/13 11:45 AM by On Wings of Eagles
If you want a level playing field then you have to do what Texas does. When you compete at Texas State Championships, you are in the final 8 after qualifying through sectionals and regionals. There are no prelims at state, only finals with the 8 best individuals or relays. Winning state in Texas with 50 points or less is doable if you have some real studs but will look less like a "team" doing it.
I'm not sure that's good for the sport here in Iowa although they (Texas) don't have to have a long, drawn out 3 day meet with "slow sections" of anything to wade through. Participation and geographic representation is pretty important here and rightly so. I don't like the 3 day event but it's pretty cool that Iowa can pull it off and still allow a ton of kids to participate.
Therefore, if everyone is dealt the same qualifying rules, then we all have the same opportunities. My suggestion is to get out and recruit more kids so you have some flexibility in your district lineup because if you can't beat them, then join them until the rules change.
This post was edited on 5/13 11:45 AM by On Wings of Eagles
There really is no way to avoid conflicting events. No matter where you move the LJ and HJ, you are going to conflict with some individuals and their other events. The simple fact is, there are high Jumpers and Long Jumpers that run EVERY event, except perhaps the 3000 and 1500 - but there may even be one or two of those. As someone mentioned - everyone knows the schedule and it is no different than any other meet all year long - You want to double or triple or quadruple a runner in events - that is the risk you take.
What I find even stranger is the fact that some events are almost impossible to double in at Districts (Boys Dmed/800) and then at state they run them on two different days and it would be a great double . . . now, to me, that is somewhat odd - although, I know the reason is to avoid a bunch of slow heats of medleys on Saturday. They set saturday up to be basically all finals, one after another, quickly (another reason the field events are done on Thurs. and Fri.)
What I find even stranger is the fact that some events are almost impossible to double in at Districts (Boys Dmed/800) and then at state they run them on two different days and it would be a great double . . . now, to me, that is somewhat odd - although, I know the reason is to avoid a bunch of slow heats of medleys on Saturday. They set saturday up to be basically all finals, one after another, quickly (another reason the field events are done on Thurs. and Fri.)
Wingman,
Do you have a clue what the word corrupt even means? Look it up. Nowhere will you find the word "conspiracy". Guess what..you won't even find the word "evil". Here are some of the words commonly found in the different definitions of corrupt: Immoral, dishonest, decaying, impure, contaminated, unclean, and probably my favorite as it pertains to this subject, "To destroy or subvert the honesty or integrity of". Nope...no "conspiracy" or "evil".
You will never hear me complain about how some teams have an easier "road to state" than others in track or any other sport. There is no way ANYONE can guarantee a means that will insure seeding so the best always make it to state or geographically create districts that have equal parity. It can't be done so move on and focus on what you can do about "making it to state". Since nothing can be done about the talent disparity the last thing needed is a rule system which actually amplifies the talent disparity issue and makes it worse. Bottom line. If you are from a weaker district you have the ability to not only send more competative qualifiers through due to the lack of talent in your district, you also benefit from being in a position to more easily "water down" your relay teams with members who you know will not be participating in that relay at state but be replaced with better members who can participate in more events because the state meet will be over a longer period of time.
While the practice is legal it is certainly immoral and defeats the whole spirit of competative athletics. It smacks of greed and a "win at all cost attitude" at the cost of the student athlete "used" to qualify a team for state then quickly discarded like trash when replaced by a better runner. Track as a whole is in decline and participation is dropping. When you see bull like this happening it's no wonder it's in such a state of decay.
Matter of fact any coach who isn't strong enough to stand up and take the right moral path and lead their team by letting the kids who qualified for state participate at state is actually nothing more than a weak, cowardly, person.
This post was edited on 5/13 11:26 PM by ghost80
Do you have a clue what the word corrupt even means? Look it up. Nowhere will you find the word "conspiracy". Guess what..you won't even find the word "evil". Here are some of the words commonly found in the different definitions of corrupt: Immoral, dishonest, decaying, impure, contaminated, unclean, and probably my favorite as it pertains to this subject, "To destroy or subvert the honesty or integrity of". Nope...no "conspiracy" or "evil".
You will never hear me complain about how some teams have an easier "road to state" than others in track or any other sport. There is no way ANYONE can guarantee a means that will insure seeding so the best always make it to state or geographically create districts that have equal parity. It can't be done so move on and focus on what you can do about "making it to state". Since nothing can be done about the talent disparity the last thing needed is a rule system which actually amplifies the talent disparity issue and makes it worse. Bottom line. If you are from a weaker district you have the ability to not only send more competative qualifiers through due to the lack of talent in your district, you also benefit from being in a position to more easily "water down" your relay teams with members who you know will not be participating in that relay at state but be replaced with better members who can participate in more events because the state meet will be over a longer period of time.
While the practice is legal it is certainly immoral and defeats the whole spirit of competative athletics. It smacks of greed and a "win at all cost attitude" at the cost of the student athlete "used" to qualify a team for state then quickly discarded like trash when replaced by a better runner. Track as a whole is in decline and participation is dropping. When you see bull like this happening it's no wonder it's in such a state of decay.
Matter of fact any coach who isn't strong enough to stand up and take the right moral path and lead their team by letting the kids who qualified for state participate at state is actually nothing more than a weak, cowardly, person.
This post was edited on 5/13 11:26 PM by ghost80
You seriously think it is immoral to run a different person in a relay at state that didn't at districts? And a weak person allows this? I read a lot of ridiculous things on these boards, and type some myself, but come on. Is it immoral and weak when the HS and college teams don't run all their studs in prelims of the 4x1 and 4x4 at conference/national meets?
With districts being 1-day and state being a 3-day affair, it makes sense to give someone rest if you are deep enough to qualify without said person.
With districts being 1-day and state being a 3-day affair, it makes sense to give someone rest if you are deep enough to qualify without said person.
Wow, this is a dumb argument Ghost. A coach who uses his or her team's depth to enhance the team's chances at state is corrupt? I love it. I think we should apply your logic to other sports. If a basketball coach pulls the center who has 16 points in the last minute to insert a better free throw shooter, he is immoral. Same goes for a baseball coach who pinch hits for the left fielder.
A relay team is 6 kids. They can each be used if necessary or desirable, and each gets a medal if they place, even if he hasn't run.
A relay team is 6 kids. They can each be used if necessary or desirable, and each gets a medal if they place, even if he hasn't run.
Coaches have not always been able to sub runners on relays and I believe that rule change was made within the past 8-10 years.
Previous to the change, I recall a coach could only sub in to the relay if one of the runners had an injury. If they took a runner out due to injury, then they couldn't run the rest of the meet.....or at least that is what my high school coach told me.
Previous to the change, I recall a coach could only sub in to the relay if one of the runners had an injury. If they took a runner out due to injury, then they couldn't run the rest of the meet.....or at least that is what my high school coach told me.
I see a major flaw in Dastardly Dan's logic.
In other sports a team is allowed to substitute DURING the contest. In track you obviously can not. If Dan wants to apply the other sport logic I guess he is ok if all 6 members would run in a 4X800. Bet the times would really drop if someone had their best 800 runners take the first 2 legs and then their 4X400 team take over and run the last 2 legs. Or more realistically if a runner got injured during the race can you sub him out? What do you think Dan? In a 4x800 race a team has their last runner take off at a 400 pace and then mysteriously gets injured at the completion of 400 and his teammate is there waiting to take the baton from his injured teammate and complete the last 400 meters. Does that sound OK with you?
Track substitutions do not operate the same as the other sports. It's more like wrestling. Primarily an individual event then a team event. SEXC1, enlighten us. Do they allow substitutions in wrestling either during a match or can someone qualify for state and then someone else wrestle in their spot if they were injured or academically ineligible at the time of qualification? Of course they don't.
Having the ability to sub out relay members and STACKING relays is relatively new. It wasn't that long ago that the only subouts were purely for injury (which is still more than you get for wrestling).
Anyone know why the state made this change? That is the question I have. WHAT MADE THE STATE CHANGE? I hope the only answer isn't because that is the way they do it in college because this is high school and an extremely small number of these kids are going participate in college track.
In other sports a team is allowed to substitute DURING the contest. In track you obviously can not. If Dan wants to apply the other sport logic I guess he is ok if all 6 members would run in a 4X800. Bet the times would really drop if someone had their best 800 runners take the first 2 legs and then their 4X400 team take over and run the last 2 legs. Or more realistically if a runner got injured during the race can you sub him out? What do you think Dan? In a 4x800 race a team has their last runner take off at a 400 pace and then mysteriously gets injured at the completion of 400 and his teammate is there waiting to take the baton from his injured teammate and complete the last 400 meters. Does that sound OK with you?
Track substitutions do not operate the same as the other sports. It's more like wrestling. Primarily an individual event then a team event. SEXC1, enlighten us. Do they allow substitutions in wrestling either during a match or can someone qualify for state and then someone else wrestle in their spot if they were injured or academically ineligible at the time of qualification? Of course they don't.
Having the ability to sub out relay members and STACKING relays is relatively new. It wasn't that long ago that the only subouts were purely for injury (which is still more than you get for wrestling).
Anyone know why the state made this change? That is the question I have. WHAT MADE THE STATE CHANGE? I hope the only answer isn't because that is the way they do it in college because this is high school and an extremely small number of these kids are going participate in college track.
Spoon, we disagree plenty. Difference is that we converse far more than on Iowa Preps and since we have each other backs, you will never hear about our differences of opinion. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out their is truth if you stand divided you do stand alone. When Ghost and I don't see eye to eye you will be the last to know.
Years ago the military put 1 man in a foxhole. They soon learned that 2 men in a larger foxhole made them more effective then 3, 4, sometimes even more men in individual foxholes. Maybe some of us have this better figured out than others.
I'm usually on the wrong side of things? When have you ever proved that my side is the wrong side. FTR, I never said it's immoral to STACK relays. It's a bad idea but I never said it's immoral.
Years ago the military put 1 man in a foxhole. They soon learned that 2 men in a larger foxhole made them more effective then 3, 4, sometimes even more men in individual foxholes. Maybe some of us have this better figured out than others.
I'm usually on the wrong side of things? When have you ever proved that my side is the wrong side. FTR, I never said it's immoral to STACK relays. It's a bad idea but I never said it's immoral.
Spoon and hawk, if you really believe that ghost and stick are the same person.......You've just proven exactly how little you know.
I used to watch a fair amount of track. Im not sure the year the state changed it, but I'll bet dollars that for many many years the state functioned with 4 members on a relay, and not 6. Geez, with that ratio going, we'll probably soon be seeing 22 or 23 kids suiting up for basketball.
I used to watch a fair amount of track. Im not sure the year the state changed it, but I'll bet dollars that for many many years the state functioned with 4 members on a relay, and not 6. Geez, with that ratio going, we'll probably soon be seeing 22 or 23 kids suiting up for basketball.
I'd assume that part of the reason for being able to declare 6 was the change in qualifying back in 2003-2004. I can't remember the exact year it changed. Used to be time qualifying for 2-4a.
Regardless, it's not immoral or anything close to that to run the 5 man at districts and insert the stud come state. It's within the rules, and it makes sense with state being a 3 day affair. Why would you not put your stud 800 guy in the medley at state when he didnt run it at districts due to the schedule?
Regardless, it's not immoral or anything close to that to run the 5 man at districts and insert the stud come state. It's within the rules, and it makes sense with state being a 3 day affair. Why would you not put your stud 800 guy in the medley at state when he didnt run it at districts due to the schedule?
Regardless of the fact, stacking is fine with me. As a competitor you want to beat the best teams. That being said, would I be fine if the best 800 runner didn't run the medley and I won State? Yes. All in all, stacking events makes for more competition in my mind at the State meet. Going back to the original topic, you are going to have conflicts no matter what you do. All coaches know the state meet schedule at the time the season starts, therefore there is no excuses. As for the athlete, im sure you can do both, would it be tough to do multiple events at once (400hurdles and hj) yes, but hey, your at State. Enjoy it.
This post was edited on 5/14 8:16 PM by purple&white101
This post was edited on 5/14 8:16 PM by purple&white101
Actually, I am pretty sure that declaring 6 was a more limiting rule. I could be wrong, but I am almost positive that when I started coaching, you did not need to declare anyone. You were not "limited" to the 4 you ran. In fact, I think you could run 4 at districts and then run 4 totally different kids at state. When we had to start declaring 6 at districts, that is when it actually BEGAN to be limited as to how you could move things around. Maybe someone else remembers for sure....
As far as the whole "immoral" issue . . . .uhhhhh . . .last I checked track is a game. And, if the rules of the game say it is fine, and you follow the rules, not really sure how you get all the way to immoral. I agree, it is not different than playing someone in the semifinal game of another sport and then playing someone else in the championship game. IS it wrong to play one pitcher in the game that gets you to state and then not play them in the state game? As long as coaches are following the rules that are in place, to each their own.
As far as the whole "immoral" issue . . . .uhhhhh . . .last I checked track is a game. And, if the rules of the game say it is fine, and you follow the rules, not really sure how you get all the way to immoral. I agree, it is not different than playing someone in the semifinal game of another sport and then playing someone else in the championship game. IS it wrong to play one pitcher in the game that gets you to state and then not play them in the state game? As long as coaches are following the rules that are in place, to each their own.
Well said Coach. We all play by the rules that are put in front of us. They have changed several times in the last decade and every time they were, we all played within the rules and did the best we could with what we had; again within the rules.
IF a school has a chance to win a team trophy at state (used to be only 2 for a long time) then the coach should do what he can to help the team even if it means switching the relays within the rules. This is not a "win at all cost" attitude when a coach has an obligatin to help his team in a team situation. In track, you can still win state without winning an event. It can be done in cross country, swimming, wrestling/individual based sports but hard to do in ball games. I think most unselfish kids/parents are ok with coaches that make those changes if it means they can still have a chance to win it as a team.
However, if they aren't in a position to win a team trophy, the coach would probably already have the kids in the events that would give them a chance to succeed at the highest level as an individual or relay and not feel the need to substitute. That alternate(s) probably wouldn't get to run in district or state in that case and would have to make his own way or hope for another chance on another relay.
Either some of the respondents aren't coaches or haven't been for very long and have yet to figure out how to recruit high numbers and hope for some increased quality/depth and win within the rules. Rather, they spend too much time complaining about things they don't understand. Good coaches don't always win but they figure out how to maximize their potential and eventually will have consistently competitive programs because they figure out what it takes to compete well within the rules.
As far as coaching at the state meet; there is still too many constraints on the coach as to how little control they have for their state lineup since they are declaring their entries the week before state in a one day meet qualifyiing for a 3 day meet. Imagine a football team being told they can only run certain select plays that they decided on a week before the state championship game or suffer disqualification. In addition, Track doesn't get a little yellow flag thrown for a 10 yard penalty when a rule is violated. The athlete is thrown out of the event with no chance to come back and still win/succeed/achieve. There is no wrestleback, no last second free-throw, no overtime shoot-out etc... It's done right or not done at all. Again, the rules of the game dictate discipline, paying attention to details and getting it done right the first time. Most of that occurs in the planning which sometimes requires using an alternate to qualify.
What if they decided to let us bring 20 kids to state and use them wherever we liked? No more than 4 events per athlete and no more than 6 athletes in an event. Take advantage of your strengths and exploit the weakness of the other teams. I think I would have more control over my lineup than under the current system that has to declare their gameplan a week prior to the state meet regardless of illness, injury, different meet format, different competition etc...
IF a school has a chance to win a team trophy at state (used to be only 2 for a long time) then the coach should do what he can to help the team even if it means switching the relays within the rules. This is not a "win at all cost" attitude when a coach has an obligatin to help his team in a team situation. In track, you can still win state without winning an event. It can be done in cross country, swimming, wrestling/individual based sports but hard to do in ball games. I think most unselfish kids/parents are ok with coaches that make those changes if it means they can still have a chance to win it as a team.
However, if they aren't in a position to win a team trophy, the coach would probably already have the kids in the events that would give them a chance to succeed at the highest level as an individual or relay and not feel the need to substitute. That alternate(s) probably wouldn't get to run in district or state in that case and would have to make his own way or hope for another chance on another relay.
Either some of the respondents aren't coaches or haven't been for very long and have yet to figure out how to recruit high numbers and hope for some increased quality/depth and win within the rules. Rather, they spend too much time complaining about things they don't understand. Good coaches don't always win but they figure out how to maximize their potential and eventually will have consistently competitive programs because they figure out what it takes to compete well within the rules.
As far as coaching at the state meet; there is still too many constraints on the coach as to how little control they have for their state lineup since they are declaring their entries the week before state in a one day meet qualifyiing for a 3 day meet. Imagine a football team being told they can only run certain select plays that they decided on a week before the state championship game or suffer disqualification. In addition, Track doesn't get a little yellow flag thrown for a 10 yard penalty when a rule is violated. The athlete is thrown out of the event with no chance to come back and still win/succeed/achieve. There is no wrestleback, no last second free-throw, no overtime shoot-out etc... It's done right or not done at all. Again, the rules of the game dictate discipline, paying attention to details and getting it done right the first time. Most of that occurs in the planning which sometimes requires using an alternate to qualify.
What if they decided to let us bring 20 kids to state and use them wherever we liked? No more than 4 events per athlete and no more than 6 athletes in an event. Take advantage of your strengths and exploit the weakness of the other teams. I think I would have more control over my lineup than under the current system that has to declare their gameplan a week prior to the state meet regardless of illness, injury, different meet format, different competition etc...
I don't get why anyone tries to compare track/xc to other sports. They are both unique sports that don't fall in line with the other team sports. It's a bunch of individual disciplines added up for a team result. Can't compare that to football, baseball, basketball...
Stick,
Appreciate you bringing me into this conversation, no they cannot at INDIVIDUAL state wrestling. I agree with coach on this one. The rules are in place, coaches do what they can within those rules. If you want to compare this to wrestling, teams can change their line-ups at state duals. They also flip-flop wrestlers up or down a weight to gain an advantage. To be honest with you, I don't like the declaration rule. Run whoever you choose at districts and if you qualify the event to state, run whoever you choose at state. Obviously, this does not apply to individual events.
Appreciate you bringing me into this conversation, no they cannot at INDIVIDUAL state wrestling. I agree with coach on this one. The rules are in place, coaches do what they can within those rules. If you want to compare this to wrestling, teams can change their line-ups at state duals. They also flip-flop wrestlers up or down a weight to gain an advantage. To be honest with you, I don't like the declaration rule. Run whoever you choose at districts and if you qualify the event to state, run whoever you choose at state. Obviously, this does not apply to individual events.
stickman80 - "Do they allow substitutions in wrestling either during a match or can someone qualify for state and then someone else wrestle in their spot if they were injured or academically ineligible at the time of qualification? Of course they don't."
Actually, in the state team duals, any substitution is allowed. This is very similar to a relay at the state track meet. In the individual meet, obviously subs are not allowed, but that is true at the state track meet as well. If a girl qualifies in the long jump, she jumps or loses eligibility in an event if she chooses to scratch.
Actually, in the state team duals, any substitution is allowed. This is very similar to a relay at the state track meet. In the individual meet, obviously subs are not allowed, but that is true at the state track meet as well. If a girl qualifies in the long jump, she jumps or loses eligibility in an event if she chooses to scratch.
Thread's dead baby, Thread's dead...
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This post was edited on 5/16 12:22 AM by On Wings of Eagles
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This post was edited on 5/16 12:22 AM by On Wings of Eagles
I'll open a can of worms and make a suggestion. I will preface my idea by saying: I have not looked at the schedule for state or districts, so I don't know if this is possible. With that said, it works for every other meet, so why not state? Have 4 days of state, starting on Wednesday, and do it by class. 1A on Wed, 2A on Thur, etc. Then rotate each year. As a teacher - at the end of the year, sem tests, graduation, etc, - they only miss one day of class. Every 4 years, they don't miss any. Start at noon or whenever, and run the same order of events as you do for districts. Maybe this will make coaches have to run the same people in the same events at districts as they will at state. Maybe not. Just an idea. Also, there may end up being more fans. I would consider missing a day of work to watch the WHOLE meet as opposed to taking a day off to only catch a couple events, but that is just my take. Discuss and rip.
A while back I started to put some "stuff" together but did not forward anything to the powers that be. I think there is some merit in what you say about a one day meet.
Feel free to pick apart
One Day State Meet
One class per day (T/W/Th/F, Saturday would be a weather makeup day)
Rotate class days every year
Could even go M/T/W/T, with F/Sat as weather days
Time schedule does have some down time
No Prelims in running events
Time Schedule
10:00 3000 Meter Run (G)
10:45 4x800 Meter Relay (B)
11:15 4x800 Meter Relay (G)
11:45 3200 Meter Run (B)
Break
1:00 Shuttle Hurdle Relay (B)
1:25 Shuttle Hurdle Relay (G)
1:50 100 Meter Dash (G)
2:00 100 Meter Dash (B)
2:10 100 Meter Wheelchair (G/B)
2:20 Distance Medley Relay (G)
2:45 400 Meter Dash (G)
2:55 400 Meter Dash (B)
3:05 400 Meter Wheelchair (G/B)
3:15 4x200 Meter Relay (G)
3:30 4x200 Meter Relay (B)
3:45 100 Meter Hurdles (G)
3:55 110 Meter Hurdles (B)
4:05 1600 Meter Run (B)
4:20 800 Meter Run (G)
4:30 200 Meter Dash (G)
4:40 200 Meter Dash ( B)
4:50 200 Meter Wheelchair (G/B)
Break
5:45 400 Meter Hurdles (G)
5:55 400 Meter Hurdles (B)
6:05 1600 Meter Medley Relay (B)
6:20 Sprint Medley Relay (G)
6:30 1500 Meter Run (G)
6:45 800 Meter Run (B)
6:55 4x100 Meter Relay (G)
7:05 4x100 Meter Relay (B)
7:15 4x400 Meter Relay (G)
7:30 4x400 Meter Relay (B)
10:00 Long Jump (G)
10:00 High Jump (B)
10:00 Shot Put (B)
10:00 Discus (G)
____________________
11:30 Long Jump (B)
11:30 High Jump (G)
11:30 Shot Put (G)
11:30 Discus (B)
Pros
Less time for students out of class
Less cost to each district (travel/hotels/subs/etc)
One more day of gate for state
Similar to format we run all season (including district)
No to little overlap of field events to running events
More emphasis will be placed on district results due to seeding
Cons
No prelims in running events
Bad Weather, multiple days
Busy day for some athletes
Change....People hate change
Feel free to pick apart
One Day State Meet
One class per day (T/W/Th/F, Saturday would be a weather makeup day)
Rotate class days every year
Could even go M/T/W/T, with F/Sat as weather days
Time schedule does have some down time
No Prelims in running events
Time Schedule
10:00 3000 Meter Run (G)
10:45 4x800 Meter Relay (B)
11:15 4x800 Meter Relay (G)
11:45 3200 Meter Run (B)
Break
1:00 Shuttle Hurdle Relay (B)
1:25 Shuttle Hurdle Relay (G)
1:50 100 Meter Dash (G)
2:00 100 Meter Dash (B)
2:10 100 Meter Wheelchair (G/B)
2:20 Distance Medley Relay (G)
2:45 400 Meter Dash (G)
2:55 400 Meter Dash (B)
3:05 400 Meter Wheelchair (G/B)
3:15 4x200 Meter Relay (G)
3:30 4x200 Meter Relay (B)
3:45 100 Meter Hurdles (G)
3:55 110 Meter Hurdles (B)
4:05 1600 Meter Run (B)
4:20 800 Meter Run (G)
4:30 200 Meter Dash (G)
4:40 200 Meter Dash ( B)
4:50 200 Meter Wheelchair (G/B)
Break
5:45 400 Meter Hurdles (G)
5:55 400 Meter Hurdles (B)
6:05 1600 Meter Medley Relay (B)
6:20 Sprint Medley Relay (G)
6:30 1500 Meter Run (G)
6:45 800 Meter Run (B)
6:55 4x100 Meter Relay (G)
7:05 4x100 Meter Relay (B)
7:15 4x400 Meter Relay (G)
7:30 4x400 Meter Relay (B)
10:00 Long Jump (G)
10:00 High Jump (B)
10:00 Shot Put (B)
10:00 Discus (G)
____________________
11:30 Long Jump (B)
11:30 High Jump (G)
11:30 Shot Put (G)
11:30 Discus (B)
Pros
Less time for students out of class
Less cost to each district (travel/hotels/subs/etc)
One more day of gate for state
Similar to format we run all season (including district)
No to little overlap of field events to running events
More emphasis will be placed on district results due to seeding
Cons
No prelims in running events
Bad Weather, multiple days
Busy day for some athletes
Change....People hate change
Well, I think the two of you missed the most obvious problem with going to one day - Sure, kids would be in school more and all that stuff, but it would put a big old dent in the amount of money being spent in Des Moines
Can't have that.
Seriously though..... I don't know that there are any really good arguments against this. The only thing I can come up with is that right now Iowa's state meet is probably the biggest HS sporting event in the country. The fact that it involves so many kids and spectators over the 3 days does make it quite the spectacle. It is kind of cool to see all of the other classes, etc. But, beyond that . . . . not sure what kind of "real" argument can be made to justify the loss of school time, the travel and expense, etc.
Can't have that.Seriously though..... I don't know that there are any really good arguments against this. The only thing I can come up with is that right now Iowa's state meet is probably the biggest HS sporting event in the country. The fact that it involves so many kids and spectators over the 3 days does make it quite the spectacle. It is kind of cool to see all of the other classes, etc. But, beyond that . . . . not sure what kind of "real" argument can be made to justify the loss of school time, the travel and expense, etc.
I agree with your assessments of money and pagentry but another thing to think about is that what you do for one sport, you would have to do for the others as well in some people's minds. There would have to be a lot of agreement on this move for athletics as a whole but I think money trumps everything else.
Nice work coach. Don't get me wrong, I like seeing all 4 classes and the set up right now. I was just addressing the original question and giving a possible solution to the situation. My "opinion" is that individuals who qualify compete or don't. Relays that qualify, qualify as a relay and whoever a coach wants to run it, runs it. PEACE
I think it is a great idea and would make the people who actually qualify more likely to be the ones who actually participate at state. That is my big hangup on the whole substitute issue.
For all the people (who are probably mostly coaches) who think it is OK to sub out relay members who actually qualified with ones who didn't put the shoe on the other foot for a minute.
You expect someone who actually earned the right to participate at state to step aside and give up that spot with no disappointment or bad feelings and if an underclassman come back next year to the oval with the same feelings for track and you as a coach as if nothing happened.
What if the shoe were on the other foot? You have an athlete who qualifies for state (in either individual or relay events) and between district and state something else more appealing comes along and he decides to skip the state meet and go do it (a big trip with friends, ect). How would you feel about that? How would you act if he were an underclassman and next season he shows up at the start of track season like nothing happened?
Don't try to tell me that would never happen because it does. These are teen age kids and their priorities can change in a heartbeat. Also please do not try to tell me that this is different. In both cases what it really boils down to is kids who actually qualify to participate at the state meet don't.
Wings, if you are finding yourself having to spend a lot of time actively recruiting kids for your track team maybe it's time to take a hard realistic look at why you are having to go seeking kids to participate. If you are doing your job right and what really matters (which is for the kids) you won't find yourself having to go seek kids that if they really wanted to be on your team would already be there.
Good luck everyone this week. I do sincerely wish you all the best.
For all the people (who are probably mostly coaches) who think it is OK to sub out relay members who actually qualified with ones who didn't put the shoe on the other foot for a minute.
You expect someone who actually earned the right to participate at state to step aside and give up that spot with no disappointment or bad feelings and if an underclassman come back next year to the oval with the same feelings for track and you as a coach as if nothing happened.
What if the shoe were on the other foot? You have an athlete who qualifies for state (in either individual or relay events) and between district and state something else more appealing comes along and he decides to skip the state meet and go do it (a big trip with friends, ect). How would you feel about that? How would you act if he were an underclassman and next season he shows up at the start of track season like nothing happened?
Don't try to tell me that would never happen because it does. These are teen age kids and their priorities can change in a heartbeat. Also please do not try to tell me that this is different. In both cases what it really boils down to is kids who actually qualify to participate at the state meet don't.
Wings, if you are finding yourself having to spend a lot of time actively recruiting kids for your track team maybe it's time to take a hard realistic look at why you are having to go seeking kids to participate. If you are doing your job right and what really matters (which is for the kids) you won't find yourself having to go seek kids that if they really wanted to be on your team would already be there.
Good luck everyone this week. I do sincerely wish you all the best.
If the meet is condensed into one day it runs counter to trying to maximize human achievement, and times will be worse.
Frankly, I'd rather see some kid go out and try to set a record in the 3200, knowing he had two days to recover before his 1600, rather than having the kid just run to win and save himself for the 1600 later that day.
Frankly, I'd rather see some kid go out and try to set a record in the 3200, knowing he had two days to recover before his 1600, rather than having the kid just run to win and save himself for the 1600 later that day.
Maximum human achievement vs Maximum human involvment.
A one day event would probably increase the number of kids actually participating. As other kids go and watch their siblings, cousins, friends, ect. participate it could in turn get them to also participate in track.
Fewer kids running more events and more kids running fewer events. There could even be extra revenue come as a result of the following of all the extra kids participating.
I'll take that scenario any day of the week. It could even help put a dent in our society's obesity problem.
A one day event would probably increase the number of kids actually participating. As other kids go and watch their siblings, cousins, friends, ect. participate it could in turn get them to also participate in track.
Fewer kids running more events and more kids running fewer events. There could even be extra revenue come as a result of the following of all the extra kids participating.
I'll take that scenario any day of the week. It could even help put a dent in our society's obesity problem.
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