By the way of a cheap, dirty play. Last night at the Clinton / Muscatine game towards the end of the first half Brady Ernst is going in for a breakaway dunk as he plants his feet to go up for a dunk Matt Wieskamp (Joe Wieskamp older brother) Comes in and shoves him in his lower back forcing Bradys knee to hyper extend injuring his right knee (we are still waiting for the mri results) The only way you shove a guy in the back like that is because you are trying to injury them. Was this in Muscatine's scouting report? If you can take a Clinton kid out take the shot. Extremley poor sportsmanship
Another player goes down
- Thread starter joel ernst
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I know everyone feels for Brady and his injury, it is an awful thing to see a players HS career come to an end because of an injury. But to be honest, to call out another player, and program, for intentionally hurting another player is not right. I know the Weiskamp's somewhat, and have talked to other people about Matt, and in no way could I ever imagine that that was his intention to hurt another player. I don't think this is the right place to call someone out, for such a thing. In my opinion, and I am sure many others, it isn't sportmanlike for someone like yourself to call out a High School kid for "intentionally" trying to injure a player. Let's keep it professional, and not call out student athletes for accusations that no one will ever know what was really meant to happen.
A lot of injuries happen, in the most freakish ways. Like I said, we all feel for Brady, but to come on here and see this post isn't right.
A lot of injuries happen, in the most freakish ways. Like I said, we all feel for Brady, but to come on here and see this post isn't right.
I understand you are angry and want to vent about your son (assuming this by your user name) getting hurt, but.... I agree with Saywhat. Calling out coaching staffs and high school kids for bad sportsmanship and doing it on purpose is not good sportsmanship itself. The fans of high school basketball feel for Brady and wish it would not have happened. Wishing all the best to Brady in the future, and I think his future will be bright.
This is when you take a step back, watch the play on film, then if it's deliberate make your case. Don't say anything heat of the moment. I didn't see the play, so can't comment on this specific situation, however, I firmly believe intentional fouls on layups should not be tolerated. It's the worst thing in the game in my opinion, and IF it was done on purpose (two hands is a very clear indicator) then by all means call the kid out. Again, if the evidence is clearly there after you take another look, then I view it as acceptable, if not then bite the bullet.
I didn't hear much calamity from anyone who reported the injury on Twitter. I didn't even see mention of a "hard foul" in the Tweets about it either. I haven't seen the play, but my feelings were that he was hurt on a routine basketball play based on the Tweets regarding it.
I'm sure there is a great deal of emotion in this original post. When you see one of your own go dpwn with an injury it creates a very sick feeling in your stomach. And in this case it happened to an athlete who has a very high potential for a collegiate career. My heart goes out to the Ernst family.
I have no idea if this incident was intentional, but it brings to mind something that seems to be occurring more often in high school games as the athletes get bigger,stronger, and better. Teams that have a "don't let anybody dunk on us" motto needs ro be stopped by all coaches. It is this attitude that can and will create injuries. The dunk is part of the game.Most coaches would tell a player "if you can dunk it, dunk it...I. like the percentages". I don't think this is as much of an issue in college, because it happens so frequently. But in high school it is less frequent and is deemed as an "in your face" play by some teams.
This is an easy one to control coaches. Don't let it be a mindset on your team. It will help avoid unnecessary injuries as well as heated animosity between teams.
I have no idea if this incident was intentional, but it brings to mind something that seems to be occurring more often in high school games as the athletes get bigger,stronger, and better. Teams that have a "don't let anybody dunk on us" motto needs ro be stopped by all coaches. It is this attitude that can and will create injuries. The dunk is part of the game.Most coaches would tell a player "if you can dunk it, dunk it...I. like the percentages". I don't think this is as much of an issue in college, because it happens so frequently. But in high school it is less frequent and is deemed as an "in your face" play by some teams.
This is an easy one to control coaches. Don't let it be a mindset on your team. It will help avoid unnecessary injuries as well as heated animosity between teams.
Well I took my step back and I have watched the video about 20 times tonight. And the only thing that has changed from watching it live is I thought he had pushed him with 2 hands but in the video it shows he only got his left hand on Brady's lower back and shoves him... So first of all Brady has played lots of basketball and Brady has broken an arm, wrist and a finger playing BB. And i get it accidents are going happen on a BB court and I have never cried foul on any of Bradys other injuries because they were the result of people making BB plays on the court.
So one last time this is what happened Brady receives the pass around half court dribbles down the middle of the court, the video shows Wieskamp chasing him down from behind Brady comes to a jump stop collecting himself to go up and dunk and at this time Matt is in a full sprint behind him and he lunges toward Brady shoving him in the lower back Brady tries to jump but there wasn't much vertical it was a very awkward looking jump with him falling forward. And sure the shove may not seem like much on the video with the camera so far away but the way Brady fell forward I could tell it was a pretty good shove Brady has never been a flopper in his life and he is 6'-9" #225 and a fairly musclar kid.
So if someone wants to correct me and say shoving a kid in the back while he is going up to dunk a basketball is considered making a basketball play, please correct me. And for whoever said I was being unsportsmanlike for calling this kid out for a dirty play....once again correct me and say shoving a kid in the back is a basketball move... Are their teams out there that coach that type of play ???
So one last time this is what happened Brady receives the pass around half court dribbles down the middle of the court, the video shows Wieskamp chasing him down from behind Brady comes to a jump stop collecting himself to go up and dunk and at this time Matt is in a full sprint behind him and he lunges toward Brady shoving him in the lower back Brady tries to jump but there wasn't much vertical it was a very awkward looking jump with him falling forward. And sure the shove may not seem like much on the video with the camera so far away but the way Brady fell forward I could tell it was a pretty good shove Brady has never been a flopper in his life and he is 6'-9" #225 and a fairly musclar kid.
So if someone wants to correct me and say shoving a kid in the back while he is going up to dunk a basketball is considered making a basketball play, please correct me. And for whoever said I was being unsportsmanlike for calling this kid out for a dirty play....once again correct me and say shoving a kid in the back is a basketball move... Are their teams out there that coach that type of play ???
Going for the block doesn't typically hit the lower back. From the sound of the event I would say they were trying to foul, but not trying to injure. Still my least favorite part of basketball, fouling on the fast break layup/dunk. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing more intentionals called in this situation. It needs to be discouraged more than a regular foul.
So you going to post the video? You've watched it 20+ times
post it so we can see for ourselves. Until this is done, I'm going to go with the crowd that says you're over reacting simply because it's your kid. And as someone else above stated
a jump stop on a fast break could very easily lead to a kid accidentally running up on someone and sticking their hand out.
A better question is what if you see the video and it does look deliberate? No actions are going to be taken and a kid is still suffering from an avoidable injury. If it's not deliberate there was still a foul on an open dunk, what did the defender think would happen?
Really though... Lets think about this. Why would a 6'1" kid go and try to block a 6'9" guy obviously going for the dunk. Theres no way he's going to get that done. Unless this Wieskamp kid has Nate Robinson hops he's not blocking that shot. Having played in many basketball games there would be nothing going through your head to push them in the back rather then fouling. And lets say that this Joel Ernst guy is telling the truth that Brady doesn't flop. It must have been a pretty aggressive shove to throw of his jump and make him strain his knee. I feel for the Brady kid and his family. Hope he heals quickly. Let us know what is the matter with him.
I was at game floor level.Brady is one of the most ferocious dunkers in Iowa.He doesn't need to jump stop to dunk! It was a couple seconds left in half and he was going for a power two handed dunk to send team into half with momentum.Now anyone who plays bball know u dnt shove a kid in back on breakaway going for dunk.Whether it was a light shove or not the dunker with his momentum is gonna be at risk.That's like if that kid threw in interception and a player went and took his knees out on the run back.SOME THINGS YOU JUST KNOW NOT TO DO!
I guess I used a bad choice of words, Brady actually didnt make a jump stop. specially in game situations Brady likes to jump of both feet when he dunks and that is what he was doing collecting himself to go up and dunk it he NEVER was at a complete stop with his body. And no the kid never ran into him he actually had to lunge at Brady to get one hand on him. And no he was not trying to block his shot or steal the ball from him. It was one hand in the lower back with a shove, push whatever you want to call it. It was NOT a normal "basketball" play by a defender
So now if you want to tell me that Brady tore his acl because he likes to jump of both feet when he dunks it. So be it...BUT I will always believe the shove/push Brady recieved in his lower back is why he tore his acl, and that hand belongs to one kid
So now if you want to tell me that Brady tore his acl because he likes to jump of both feet when he dunks it. So be it...BUT I will always believe the shove/push Brady recieved in his lower back is why he tore his acl, and that hand belongs to one kid
Just my two cents. Fouling is part of the game. Coaches always tell you to make the basket harder. When you are dunking in high school, you are putting your body at risk. It's unfortunate that it happened, and I have not seen the video, but from everything I have read it seems like your every day chase down foul. Injuries happen in basketball and my guess is that (unless he violently went-after the kid) it was probably a foul that would have been called a "good foul" if the kid didn't get hurt. My one question though, is was it an intentional foul or a common foul?
If you know some kid's on a breakaway and they're going to slam it down and the defender has no chance of blocking it, you don't "accidentally" push a kid in the back. The kid obviously did this on purpose, probably not intending on hurting Brady, but still just a terrible basketball play. From what I'm hearing, this play is bush league, no excuses.
I was also at the game and very near the play. It was an intentional shove with no attempt to block the shot and is the result of poor coaching and sportsmanship. If it was not an attempt to injure the player, what is the intent? It would have been a flagrant 1 in NCAA and maybe worse after review. If a player is hurt when the defender is making a play on the ball or attempting to draw a charge, that is part of the game. A shove in the back is not! So if your kid gets injured by a deliberate blow to the head as he is crossing the goal line or drilled in the head with a fast ball, some of you are going to defend the violator and respond with out ever seeing the play; Or perhaps consider it "part of the game" and "players get hurt".
The teams had just played three days prior in a very close over-time game, Was getting Ernst or Howard out of the game part of the game plan? Perhaps by foul trouble? Was the seed planted? I don't know maybe that question should be asked.
As for Brady gathering himself, the pass was a little wild and he pulled it in by stopping and gaining control. I have watched this kid for four years and he is one of the most aggressive and talented dunkers in the state. He reminds me of a young Aaron White in his attack on the basket.
As for calling out a player or a coach on this forum, I think it is totally appropriate, what are the other options? An editorial in the Des Moines Register?
I think it is more inappropriate for someone to defend the play that has never viewed it. So if your kid gets his bell rung by a deliberate blow to the head as he is crossing the goal line, or hit in the head with a fastball
If anyone thinks that an intentional shove is part of high school basketball, they have a different view of high school sports than the federation or the IAHSAA that are committed to the safety of the athletes. I think the play should be reviewed by the state and a review of the rules regarding similar plays is entirely in order. Ending a kid's season by shoving a player in an attempt to avoid and inevitable dunk is poor coaching and sportsmanship and the end result can not benefit your team.
Making a player work for every basket does not include flagrant fouls that likely result in injury.
The teams had just played three days prior in a very close over-time game, Was getting Ernst or Howard out of the game part of the game plan? Perhaps by foul trouble? Was the seed planted? I don't know maybe that question should be asked.
As for Brady gathering himself, the pass was a little wild and he pulled it in by stopping and gaining control. I have watched this kid for four years and he is one of the most aggressive and talented dunkers in the state. He reminds me of a young Aaron White in his attack on the basket.
As for calling out a player or a coach on this forum, I think it is totally appropriate, what are the other options? An editorial in the Des Moines Register?
I think it is more inappropriate for someone to defend the play that has never viewed it. So if your kid gets his bell rung by a deliberate blow to the head as he is crossing the goal line, or hit in the head with a fastball
If anyone thinks that an intentional shove is part of high school basketball, they have a different view of high school sports than the federation or the IAHSAA that are committed to the safety of the athletes. I think the play should be reviewed by the state and a review of the rules regarding similar plays is entirely in order. Ending a kid's season by shoving a player in an attempt to avoid and inevitable dunk is poor coaching and sportsmanship and the end result can not benefit your team.
Making a player work for every basket does not include flagrant fouls that likely result in injury.
None of what anyone saying on here matters. You don't come on a public forum and call out the kid and staff..
You have a problem with it take it your coach then to them and on to the state if something needs to be done....
It is completely wrong to come on here to vent your personal feelings and call out a high school kid.
You have a problem with it take it your coach then to them and on to the state if something needs to be done....
It is completely wrong to come on here to vent your personal feelings and call out a high school kid.
I will say that with my experiences Muscatine tends to have kids that can get very testy/edgy when they are trailing in a game.
This year the freshman basketball team for them was supposed to be the best in the MAC if they had Joe Wieskamp. He obviously dominated at Varsity and I think the freshman team learned what it was like to lose. I don't know how many games they lost this year, but I know it was more than past seasons.
I know that Davenport Central had 2 losses heading into the last tournament of the year and the only one they were "outplayed" was against Muscatine. They dropped a big lead to United Township, IL in the other loss.
As I have mentioned Assumption had split talent between two teams, which Bettendorf was the only other team to do that. One of the Assumption teams played Muscatine and beat them by 8. In the game the Muscatine guard was extremely chippy in the second half when they trailed by 10 or so. He eventually got a technical in the 3rd and another later in the 4th quarter, which he was ejected. Both times he got entangled with the same Assumption player who had been guarding him most of the game. The next time Assumption's other team played Muscatine and Assumption held an 8-10 point lead for 3 quarters of the game. When the Assumption post players were in a 3/4 front or full front on the Muscatine post players the post threw an elbow into the chest of the Assumption post and proceeded to turn around and shove him. It ended up with a technical. Later the kids shake hands and an apology from the Muscatine kid ensued, but temperament is something the coach should have a little more control of. It isn't hard to tell when a kid is tired, not focused, or upset/chippy.
On Senior night at Muscatine. Assumption post players received multiple elbows from Joe Wieskamp in the post when he was defending or posting up, because he was visually frustrated. Heading into the 4th quarter he had only 6 points and wouldn't have scored much more except Youngblut for Assumption fouled out and Muscatine attacked the rim with Wieskamp the 4th quarter as a result. Elbows were brought to the officials attention on multiple occasions and nothing happened. They did however take away 3 Assumption FT's for lane violation by the shooter for stepping over the line on his follow through before the ball swished through the net. I know the Assumption players were in visible pain and likely had to ice the lower back and ribs after the game.
I don't know if it is a common theme with Muscatine, but they don't seem to deal well with losing.
This year the freshman basketball team for them was supposed to be the best in the MAC if they had Joe Wieskamp. He obviously dominated at Varsity and I think the freshman team learned what it was like to lose. I don't know how many games they lost this year, but I know it was more than past seasons.
I know that Davenport Central had 2 losses heading into the last tournament of the year and the only one they were "outplayed" was against Muscatine. They dropped a big lead to United Township, IL in the other loss.
As I have mentioned Assumption had split talent between two teams, which Bettendorf was the only other team to do that. One of the Assumption teams played Muscatine and beat them by 8. In the game the Muscatine guard was extremely chippy in the second half when they trailed by 10 or so. He eventually got a technical in the 3rd and another later in the 4th quarter, which he was ejected. Both times he got entangled with the same Assumption player who had been guarding him most of the game. The next time Assumption's other team played Muscatine and Assumption held an 8-10 point lead for 3 quarters of the game. When the Assumption post players were in a 3/4 front or full front on the Muscatine post players the post threw an elbow into the chest of the Assumption post and proceeded to turn around and shove him. It ended up with a technical. Later the kids shake hands and an apology from the Muscatine kid ensued, but temperament is something the coach should have a little more control of. It isn't hard to tell when a kid is tired, not focused, or upset/chippy.
On Senior night at Muscatine. Assumption post players received multiple elbows from Joe Wieskamp in the post when he was defending or posting up, because he was visually frustrated. Heading into the 4th quarter he had only 6 points and wouldn't have scored much more except Youngblut for Assumption fouled out and Muscatine attacked the rim with Wieskamp the 4th quarter as a result. Elbows were brought to the officials attention on multiple occasions and nothing happened. They did however take away 3 Assumption FT's for lane violation by the shooter for stepping over the line on his follow through before the ball swished through the net. I know the Assumption players were in visible pain and likely had to ice the lower back and ribs after the game.
I don't know if it is a common theme with Muscatine, but they don't seem to deal well with losing.
I'm going to jump in here because I know both players involved. First of all my heart goes out to Brady, I love watching him play and it is an unfortunate event. I understand Mr. Ernst frustration at seeing your son hurt on this particular play and wanting to hold someone responsible...I've been in that situation. But injuries are a part of basketball. I have not seen the play and would like to see it if someone has the video. I know the Weiskamp kid and I know he would not have tried to intentionally hurt someone, now that doesnt mean he wasnt being aggressive but I'm sure he was not intentionally trying to hurt Brady. My guess is that he is extrememly sorry that Brady was hurt. .....Mr Ernst, Brady will bounce back...he has 6 months of work ahead of him and if he works hard he will be back to full strength in time for the season.
This post was edited on 2/26 1:01 PM by Bulldog198240
This post was edited on 2/26 1:05 PM by Bulldog198240
This post was edited on 2/26 1:07 PM by Bulldog198240
This post was edited on 2/26 1:01 PM by Bulldog198240
This post was edited on 2/26 1:05 PM by Bulldog198240
This post was edited on 2/26 1:07 PM by Bulldog198240
I've heard both sides of the story but the only ones I hear saying it was "on purpose" are Clinton fans. Until I see the video, or at least someone says it was called an intentional foul I'm just going to assume it was a common foul and a tough result.
Well you haven't heard both sides because no one on here who seen the play and was there said it was a common foul.The ones (like yourself) and like you stated are assuming it was a common foul.Because you weren't there.Not one person who was at that gym ,Muskie fans included can say that was a bball play.
Now whether it was on purpose or not.Only that kid knows.Let jus say it was a boneheaded and dumb play on the kids part.That unfortunately cost one of the top talents in iowa the rest of his season and possibly the beginning of his D1 season.
First of all just because you know both players does not mean that you can pass judgement on a play that you did not see. Injuries are indeed part of basketball. As I said in previous post, if player was making a play on the ball or trying to draw a charge, that is a part of the game. Shoving a player that had obviously beaten you is "aggressive" and egregious. If he meant to hurt him or not, it is still a very poor sportsmanship and poor coaching. The end result is not a benefit to your team. Cheap play is not outside of Muscatine's play book.
I would truly like to know if the Muscatine coach discussed how beneficial it would be to have Ernst or Howard out of the game (presumably due to fouls) and it planted a seed in his players' heads. Aggressive and cheap play is not outside of Muscatime's play book.
Yes Ernst will bounce back, but that doesn't make it right to deprive the kid the rest of his senior season at the end of a cheap foul.
So if Weiskamp is truly feeling sorry, I wonder if he has reached out to Ernst to express that personally. I know if it was my kid that had committed the foul and ended a kid's high school career, he would be reaching out and doing just that.
This post was edited on 2/26 4:41 PM by houndref
I would truly like to know if the Muscatine coach discussed how beneficial it would be to have Ernst or Howard out of the game (presumably due to fouls) and it planted a seed in his players' heads. Aggressive and cheap play is not outside of Muscatime's play book.
Yes Ernst will bounce back, but that doesn't make it right to deprive the kid the rest of his senior season at the end of a cheap foul.
So if Weiskamp is truly feeling sorry, I wonder if he has reached out to Ernst to express that personally. I know if it was my kid that had committed the foul and ended a kid's high school career, he would be reaching out and doing just that.
This post was edited on 2/26 4:41 PM by houndref
We can all agree on here that what happened to Brady was awful and we wouldnt wish that on anyone be we all need to be careful when you call out a coaching staff or anyone else.....and speaking of cheap shots and poor sportsmanship.....thats exactly what some of you are doing here to Muscatine....Show some respect and class.
And by the way hound ref....I have spoken to more than 3 people who are not from either team who were at the game and they emphatically disagree with your version....again I would like to see the video to make my own judgement
UPDATE:
Saw the video ....wow....I would say some of you used this as an excuse to take a shot at Muscatine....and you've obviously never seen an AAU tournament....I saw more contact on a hand checking foul than this...ridiculous
This post was edited on 2/26 10:42 PM by Bulldog198240
This post was edited on 2/26 11:57 PM by Bulldog198240
And by the way hound ref....I have spoken to more than 3 people who are not from either team who were at the game and they emphatically disagree with your version....again I would like to see the video to make my own judgement
UPDATE:
Saw the video ....wow....I would say some of you used this as an excuse to take a shot at Muscatine....and you've obviously never seen an AAU tournament....I saw more contact on a hand checking foul than this...ridiculous
This post was edited on 2/26 10:42 PM by Bulldog198240
This post was edited on 2/26 11:57 PM by Bulldog198240
Due to the accusations you are putting on this individual person, Matthew Wieskamp, a senior at Muscatine High School, and the basketball program of Muscatine about a dirty program/player, I personally think you are being very immature and obtuse about this. For one, you are and adult, so please act like one. You are calling out and putting blame on a high school kid who means no harm. Secondly, it was not a dirty foul at all. Sports reporter and QC Times writer, Matt Coss, was sitting court side and saw the entire play and said so himself it was not a dirty play at all. It is very unfortunate that your son got injured and ended up with a terrible injury such as a torn ACL(we all wish him a full and speedy recovery). Your son is 6'8 and probably around 230-240 pounds and also assuming Brady is strong. At the college level he will be experiencing a lot more physicality during games and a lot harder "shoves" as you say. If you look at the tape Matt Wieskamp extends his arm and barely touches Brady on his lower back BEFORE he even goes up with the basketball. Brady proceeds to go up SQUARE to the hoop, but then as he jumps you can see a twist in his abdominal section (trying to sell a foul) and by doing this twisting motion it cause him to come down awkwardly on his leg/knee. We obviously can tell you are angry and frustrated with the play that occurred Monday night, February the 23rd, during the game, but it was no one in particulars fault. Just a freak accident that happened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCtqHEST36c&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCtqHEST36c&feature=youtu.be
After seeing the video, it looks like if anything contact was made prior to him even going up for the shot, and truthfully it looks as if there was hardly even enough contact to change anything.
WOW
that was the most violent, abusive, cheap shot I've ever seen
I've seen more contact in girls JH games the kid barely put his hand on your son. Your sons knee blew out from the force of jumping nothing more. If he would have been in the open court all by himself, he still would have blown out the knee on that play. As noted above contact was minimal, and it was done by the time your son jumped.
I've seen more contact in girls JH games the kid barely put his hand on your son. Your sons knee blew out from the force of jumping nothing more. If he would have been in the open court all by himself, he still would have blown out the knee on that play. As noted above contact was minimal, and it was done by the time your son jumped.
Joel Ernst, sorry for your family member that was injured in the game. Just tell me though, how you can you possibly justify anything in that video showing Matt pushing Brady in that breakaway? Get over your hatred, stop making false accusations about the coach, and stop being a bitter man about the situation. There is no need for this. Like I said, sorry the kid got hurt, but Matt did nothing wrong and it clearly shows that in the video.
