4k vs. 5k for girls

[cc coach]

Article in the gazette today about the 4k/5k distance for girls cross country. I know the IATC has been seeking input from coaches on this issue and have heard from 200+ girls coaches.

Thoughts?

http://iowaprepsports.com/2013/10/23/4k-or-5k-for-girls-opinions-vary/


This post was edited on 10/24 9:06 AM by cc coach

 

[dutch_xc]

I think that background influences our opinions here, so know that I grew up in Colorado where girls run 5K, and I began my teaching/coaching career in Missouri where girls also run 5K.

I have always been in favor of changing the current format to girls running 5K. I do not believe the increase from 3000m in the spring to 4000m (33%) in the fall is equivalent to the increase from 3200m to 5000m (56%) for the boys. Increasing the girls to 5000m (66%) is not equivalent either, but more equitable.

I would also prefer when managing a meet to have one common course for all student-athletes to run.

I do respect the opinion that "top" student-athletes finish their respective distances in approximately the same amount of time. That is the strongest argument for the 4K in my opinion.

I do not believe that participation levels would decrease significantly with the 5K. I do believe that coaches should create an environment in which all participants feel they are succeeding. As a personal example, when I coached in Missouri if I had a female athlete who struggled greatly with the 5K distance we would lessen their race to 2 miles until they were ready. This was a personal team decision, not a separately run race. Until a student felt confident in the 5K (in many cases this meant completing two miles in less than 20 min), we would simply have a student race to the 2 mile mark and then drop out from the race. We had great success with this approach as students dropped their two-mile time for a while, and then became strong enough to finish the entire 5K by mid-season in most cases. Host schools were always made aware this would occur with our "slower" participants early in the season, and this also helped with the concern of someone needing 35-40 minutes to finish the 5K.

One opinion.

 

[Dancing With the Stars]

I think they should run the same distance. I also think the girls should run 3200 and 1600 in track. In basketball they don't play a minute less per quarter. In softball they don't play an inning less. I find it a little strange that we allow them to run less and get away with it. Of course I also find it strange that we always play basketball doubleheaders with the girls first and get away with that. It's not equitable. I'm okay with it, but I'm surprised by it. I think if the distance was changed there would be some grumbling, but I don't honestly believe we would lose runners. And after a year, it would be the norm and no one would even think about it anymore.

 

[SSG T]

Seeing how you're both coaches, I have a somewhat related question.

Why do HS Boys still run the 1600m and 3200m in track and the NCAA has them run the 1500m and 5000m? Why not make them the same, especially considering they're running 5K in cross country? I get not running the 3000 Steeplechase, but why/why not the other two?

 

[dutch_xc]

I agree with the suggestion that the distances in track should also be the same ..... however, in that case, it is the boys that should switch. The Olympic race is the 1500m.

I understand the desire to keep a race most closely related to "THE MILE", but in the interest of balance, the 1500m seems like the correct choice.

 

[Dancing With the Stars]

I would be interested to know how many states run a 1600 and how many a 1500 for boys and/or girls. Anyone?

 

[se xc1]

I really don't care if we change or stay the same. Life is not fair, it is not always equal. The NCAA also runs different distances for the two genders. Girls use a smaller basketball, throw a lighter shot, play with a larger ball(softball) and pitch it underhanded. No one is screaming to make changes with these things. Once again, I really don't care, but don't use the "equality" argument. Men and women are different. Why are the world records for every single olympic track event in which they compete on an equal playing field ALWAYS better for the male athlete?

 

[cc coach]

Personally, I am kind of indifferent - I think there are valid reasons for both distances.

*One course would be nice as far as meet management.
*Training-wise, the most significant thing is not equivalent race DISTANCE, it is equivalent race TIME. 4k/5k make it so boys and girls are basically racing the same amount of time. This, in my opinion, is the best reason to retain 4k.
*I agree that CC should be DISTANCE running, and the difference between track and CC is not as significant as maybe it should be. I think this is the best reason to go to 5k.

Personally, I think the absolute worst reason to go to 5k is the idea that "colleges want 5k times." In my opinion - who cares? Not my job. I can't believe there are good college coaches who cannot figure out who the good HS runners are based on 4k times and doing some research. Also, it is not the job of HS sports to structure themselves around a handful of elite individuals who a handful of elite colleges may want to recruit. HS is about participation and experience of being on teams, getting in shape and focusing on qualities that can help you elsewhere. So, I really hate the "college argument." Plus, girls going from 4k to 6k is already much less of a leap than boys going from 5k to 8 or 10K. It is already not much of an adjustment compared to guys.

I think the worst reason to keep it 4K is that "girls won't come out." That was the same argument for staying 2 miles instead of going to 4k . . . . . the facts just don't back it up - participation is great for girls CC overall I think. So, I don't know that it would matter much going 4k to 5k in regard to participation. I suppose though, it is still a potential concern. You would not want to decrease participation for the sake of racing further.

Be interesting to see where it goes - like I said, kind of indifferent myself. I am good with 4k. Could adapt to 5k as well.

 

[Dancing With the Stars]

All good points. It will be interesting to see what happens. And I think, no matter what our opinions are, it's just a matter of time. Whichever distance it is, the kids will train for it and they'll be fun to coach and be around and I'm good with that. It's a great sport no matter the distance in my opinion.

 

[captain_sparrow]

I'm in favor of leaving it at 4K for all of the reasons cc_coach listed above. That said, I wouldn't be too upset if it changed to 5K.

 

[HawkBlocked]

A lot of other states run 5K and colleges want 5K times - I think those are bad arguments. Iowa changed from 6 player basketball to 5 player mainly because nobody else was playing 6 player, and colleges wanted to recruit girls who played 5 player. Guess what, girls participation numbers plummeted. Our HS can't even field a JV team now. Not to mention girls 5 player basketball is virtually unwatchable.

High school sports are about being part of a team and learning things that will help you in life beyond high school. I do believe going to 5K will hurt numbers just like it did in basketball (although I don't think to the same extent as bb), and I don't think that's worth risking.

We have a good thing going right now in CC, why change it?

I don't think our opinions matter, anyway. I don't think we'll see a change to 5K any time soon. Mike Dick's comments in the linked story lead me to believe that.

 

[Dancing With the Stars]

My whole team told me on the way home from the state meet yesterday that if it changes to 5k they won't run. Now would they really not run? I think they would. But clearly they don't want the distance changed. Like anyone else, they like to stick with what's comfortable I guess.