YMCA Cancels Youth Tackle Football Program

[nwmsbearcat]

A YMCA in South Sioux City, NE just announced they are cancelling their youth tackle football program.
http://nwsymca.org/tackle-football/

Thoughts? Is this only the beginning?

Isn't there the possibility of sustaining a concussion in any sport, so shouldn't they cancel any sport/activity that carries with it the possibility of sustaining a concussion? Soccer? Wrestling? Insert any other sport here?

Don't we have more protocols in place now than we ever have for football and other sports? If the increased protocols and advanced technology and ever improving equipment are not enough, where will it end?

 

[Lenmaster]

In todays society hysteria takes presidents over common sense. People need to understand that life is a concussion waiting to happen no matter how you live it. Kids playing soccer, basketball or even out riding their bikes around town or climbing trees face serious concussion risks. At least organized football with pads and proper tackling technique being taught is in a structured and controlled environment. The concussion chances have to be at least equal if not lower for football compared to many of the other youth sports and yet parents don't hesitate one bit in letting their kids play those sports. We have to be very vocal and educate parents and organizations as to how they are being drawn in by over zealous control freaks or people with an outright anti-football agenda. Someone other than the YMCA needs to take up the football reigns out there before the damage to that areas football future becomes permanently altered. I think it's time football put together state and national coalitions that do nothing but defend our sport and challenge in meaningful ways some of the bad science being displayed to us as the final authority on concussions. A collision can also educate parents and organizations of the actual risks based on facts that can be proven and the positives gained by our kids play football. We are rapidly losing our culture in general in this country and if we don't stand up and defend football vigorously it will be stripped from us. An interesting article came out in September of 2015 and the facts have not conclusively change since then. This is a good read and more of this type of common sense needs to be spread around. http://www.kars4kids.org/blog/is-football-dangerous/

 

[Herdcyclones]

I am not a big fan of sub 6th grade padded tackle football. And that is for various reasons. I'm not always convinced there is good coaching. And because football can hurt at times, some kids may give up the game prematurely, as they may have not hit a growth sport relative to peers and they might get dominated as a 5th grader, when they may grow into a fine high school athlete.

With that said, I do not like the war on football that is starting. The media seems to focus on NFL players that are struggling in their 50s and beyond. And I get that repeated head collisions from 20 years of playing football--jr high to long NFL career--may take a toll.

But there are literally over a million men in this country that played Jr. High and HS football that are living perfectly normal lives that got to experience the fun and excitement of football. Not that maybe that guy is out there, but I am not aware of any news story regarding some guy that played HS football, ended his football career there, and is a drooling idiot because of head trauma.

No this may drift a bit political, but I really do think it is partially a war on masculinity. Young males typically enjoy physical battles and competition. And there are some that just don't understand that.

And as mentioned above, it can happen in any sport. I have a neighborhood kid that got a concussion playing basketball. I have a co-worker that got 2 concussions playing adult hockey. I know of a baseball coach that was likely concussed after being hit by an errantly thrown baseball.

It just needs some common sense. The sport itself is generally fine and safe. After a 2nd concussion, maybe it is time to re-evaluate continuing in that sport. But for the vast, vast majority of high school youth, it is a great outlet to learn all the skills that come from being on a team, and participating in a controlled competitive environment.

 

[Zeek86]

Over 1 million kids play high school football in America every year. It is still far and away the highest participation sport in Iowa and the country. There are tens of millions of men in this country who played football and got all the benefits that come with it. Sadly the game is under attack. False info and hysteria. It is the greatest sport in my opinion.

 

[Rose bowl or bust]

While I agree we need to better educate people about football and the positives that it brings to participants, Herdcyclones has touched on something that nobody else in this thread has mentioned.

Youth football DOES NOT help kids become better football players. I coach junior high, and I have seen NO developmental gains made by the kids that play in our youth football league versus those kids I manage to talk into coming out for football for the first time in 7th grade. It may take me about a day to teach them a decent stance, and at that point they're pretty much caught up.

Youth football has chased more kids away from the game than it has brought into it in my opinion. Kids that are small in 5th grade compared to their classmates can take a beating. How is this good for the kid? How is it good for their development as a football player? They learn to hate the game, and isn't that the exact OPPOSITE of what we want to happen?

Kids who are bigger or faster than their peers at that age can also get an inflated sense of their ability. I've seen kids who don't learn how to work since they're so much bigger/faster at that age. They don't understand how to work, and eventually the other kids catch up. At times, it can happen, and can hinder their future development.

Heck, about 50% of the kids that leave my junior high team end up playing a different position at the high school level as they grow into their bodies. Some move closer to the center, some farther away, but about half of them change spots.

With all this said, there are certainly kids who prosper and learn to love the game during youth football. But I just don't like the talk that Youth Football (3-6 grade) has to be all about contact, toughen them up, make them men. They're not....they're little boys. What is wrong with teaching them the teamwork, working hard, etc. parts of the game with flag football?

 

[Pinehawk]

Great post by Rose Bowl. I've heard the same thing said by coaches at the school my child attends. Which is, there isn't anything that kids in 6th grade and under are learning that can't be fully taught in 7th and 8th grade. At our school youth football is transitioning away from tackle to flag football in pads.
And, the other issue is that fewer kids are going out for football in some areas. Many more parents are holding their kids out of football altogether.

 

[Vroom_C14]

Another down side to the youth tackle football - coaches. If they are not teaching the fundamentals and only worry about winning (which is rampant in many programs) the kids get injured young, moms immediately jump on the bandwagon and kids never see the field again.

We did flag for quite some time and many of our HS teams that won state, never played youth tackle... as a matter of fact, since our youth program started not one team has won a state championship nor reached the championship game. Hmmmmm

 

[Lenmaster]

OK enough with the youth bashing, it can be done and if you don't have the patience to read all this you don't have what it takes to be a youth coach I'm telling you that right off.

First and foremost let me premise this by saying I will never approve of 3rd and 4th graders playing full contact football. 75% or more of the kids at that age are simply not intellectually ready and playing a kid that is not intellectually ready only increases the chance of losing that player for life. The stud kids you will have no matter what, so the brutal truth is, those are not the kids your youth program should be focused on. Youth programs work as long as you are truly committed to running them as a YOUTH PROGRAM. Yes, coaching at that level is the number one problem in driving kids away from the game. I have been part of a very successful youth league for 10 years now and every team in this league right now is committed to keeping it a developmental league rather than a super competitive league. Our league has 8 player schools up through 3A schools in it and all compete and benefit equally in this environment. The payoff for every team that has stuck with this ideology has been huge.

For example, many schools start kids off in organized music (Band) in the 5th grade. None of those kids are expected to play at the same level as a senior in high school. Instead they are handed music that is exciting enough to give them a sense of accomplishment but simple enough to ensure success for all the kids at that level. Sure some of the kids will be much better than others but the goal at that point is getting them to play as a group. These kids will be together a long time and they need to develop this trait. The advanced kids need to be taught that concept too so the effect is the same for them. Football should be handled the same way but far too many youth coaches and parents want high school level competition right away. This is a sink or swim mentality that causes the needless loss of many great athletes that bloom late and could actually leave some of the 5th grade studs behind over time.

The only way to maintain this approach is to have a team coordinator that teaches your youth coaches what they should be coaching and oversees them to ensure they stay the course. Get all your youth coaches Heads Up Football certified through U.S.A football no exceptions. These things keeps the volunteer father coaches available to help but keeps the level of competency and overriding ideology on track.

A developmental league approach nurtures, teaches and never puts any kid in a vulnerable position. This is done by faithfully sticking to some rules of play that are specifically designed to enhance the young players ability to learn while not throwing them to the wolves in a sink or swim type of situation. Also never put a level C talented kid up against a level A talented kid in practice. This only serves to falsely build up the talented kid and needlessly tear down the less talented one.

You should always gush over the technically correct hit rather than the big hit. Every kid has to play and not just on trash downs but experience meaningful playing time minutes. Do this even if it costs you a game. Never hit on any kicking play. You can line them up for experience but no live hitting on kicks. The play is dead as soon as control is obtained or the ball is out of bounds. On defense no one should be allowed to line up in the defensive gaps but rather heads up only. The only exception to this would be the defensive ends. They can do an outside shade of the widest guy at the end of the LOS (even if he is off like a wing). No one should be allowed to line up on the center at all unless they are inside of their own 5 yard line. This way long snapping can actually be taught and utilized in a game situation. Your linebackers should never be closer than 3 yards from the LOS and no running start blitzes should be allowed. DB’s need to be no closer than 5 yards from the LOS and safeties are 7 yards off.

On offense no specialty player (QB,RB,WR) can weigh more than 110 pounds (For 5th and 6th graders). Your TE can be heavier but he can only get the ball via a forward pass beyond the LOS.

If you have multiple teams in your program do not stack one team with talent and coaching while leaving the other team lacking. This sends a very clear message to players and parents that you regard them as a non-equal. You can disguise the message all you want to but you are fooling no one and alienating literally half your team. As a program, staking teams and unequal playing time is the most damaging thing you can do for your future. Finally, keep your number of games down to about 5 or 6. Leave them wishing for one more game.

If you do these basic things then the game is slowed down and simplified yet still very fun for those who play and fun to watch. Now if you are one of those people who are shaking your head and saying this isn’t real football, then you are exactly the sort of person that is hurting youth programs and needs to be excused from participation. I have been doing this for 10 years and the results we are getting are nothing short of staggering. This method of teaching football has resulted in over 40% of our entire BEDS numbers in high school playing football. Remember this number represents all kids’ not just boys.

It not only can be done but it can be done in such a way that gets numbers up while teaching safer techniques like heads up football or rugby style tackling. You just have to commit to it from top to bottom. If anyone has any questions about this please feel free to message me. I will be happy to answer any questions you may have to the best of what I know.

 

[HawkRugged17]

For example, many schools start kids off in organized music (Band) in the 5th grade. None of those kids are expected to play at the same level as a senior in high school. Instead they are handed music that is exciting enough to give them a sense of accomplishment but simple enough to ensure success for all the kids at that level. Sure some of the kids will be much better than others but the goal at that point is getting them to play as a group. These kids will be together a long time and they need to develop this trait. The advanced kids need to be taught that concept too so the effect is the same for them. Football should be handled the same way but far too many youth coaches and parents want high school level competition right away. This is a sink or swim mentality that causes the needless loss of many great athletes that bloom late and could actually leave some of the 5th grade studs behind over time.

This paragraph should be cut and pasted all over every youth sports site/venue. The word football can be replaced with any sport/activity. My son has played sports and music and the different approaches have always amazed me. Thank you for articulating this.

 

[LukeFeddersen]

This paragraph should be cut and pasted all over every youth sports site/venue. The word football can be replaced with any sport/activity. My son has played sports and music and the different approaches have always amazed me. Thank you for articulating this.

+1000. The question is how do you ensure coaches do it for the right reasons?

 

[Lenmaster]

Your youth program has to be part of your overall program with, at minimum, the youth coordinator being actually part of the high school program. They need to interface with the school programs and be accountable to minimum requirements of standards for each player to have mastered by the end of the season. Your coordinators job is to screen the volunteer coaches and to steward over them making sure they are coaching the correct things in the correct way to these kids. Those coaches need to know they are to follow a plan.The best situation of all it to get volunteer assistants from the high school or Jr. high level to also coach youth on a permanent youth staff. It is a lot of work for them but the quality of coaching is as good as you will find anywhere.

 

[neversurrender]

Yes it can be done and much like Lenmaster says the youth program has to have help being run by the coaches who are doing the high school program. That can be a problem, at smaller schools it could be a numbers game that there just aren't enough coaches to be able to do the job, at some schools it might be that the high school coaches are "too busy" I know I heard that one about the youth football camp that used to be held at my high school. Some of the big cities you run into the situation where you have multiple high schools and junior highs so who coaches the youth programs there? And in some of the smaller towns lets be honest the volunteer guys are the ones who are doing it for their kid and they are out of the program as soon as their son is done.

Football is a great sport and I pray that my son loves it like I do and learns the lessons I did from it but the youth program issue as far as concussions isn't going to go away anytime soon.

 

[makelovenotwar]

Look, football for very young kids appears to be dangerous. FYI: So does wrestling and soccer which allows heading. This does NOT mean these spots need to be banned. But youth participation in some contact sports is going to be changed. Just is.

We need a better helmet for football. It is an engineering challenge, but it can be done.

I will be very interested over the next few years as the data on the football players is improved. Two issues that have been largely ignored in the press are the use of steroids and recreational drugs, especially marijuana. Steroid effects are all over the place but certainly brain cancer has been shown to be linked to steroid use. I bet we will see a hypersensitivity to CTE linked to steroids. Marijuana is clearly a related variable. We all know the stoners in high school that smoked too much dope and act, well, like a former NFL player.

 

[Lenmaster]

I couldn't agree more on the whole brain injury data issue. There are so many variables that are not being consider in all this. Do steroids or any other performance enhancing supplement increase concussion risk for example? How about marijuana use? Does its use increase concussion risks? What about alcohol use? Are there genetic traits that predispose someone to concussions? What do we know about a players state prior to football? Was it a pre-existing condition that would have occurred even if football was never a factor? I have no doubt that the sport needed to be cleaned up regarding its attitudes towards concussions and returning players to the field who have them. In all honesty we all were clueless to a certain degree about concussions and that is no fault of anyone, it just was the way it was and we have since learned more about them. This I am thankful for. "He got his bell rung" was just part of the lexicon when I played and was still the norm only a few short years ago. The perceived risk is not the same as the true risk and it is my opinion that the past 100 years is a better sampling to use in determining the true risks rather than recent studies done on incredibly small sample groups of people with limited controls applied. Limiting or not considering proper controls prevent the consideration of other factors that could have an impact on the results. For example the questions listed above. There are literally millions of former players form all levels of the game that function just fine and are normal healthy people. People that back in the day simply played through concussions like I did. How do we account for them in these studies?

 

[mtdew_fever]

Another side of things. The liability insurance to offer tackle football for programs (schools, clubs, etc) is only going to go up. That should definitely factor into things.

 

[Vroom_C14]

Your youth program has to be part of your overall program with, at minimum, the youth coordinator being actually part of the high school program. They need to interface with the school programs and be accountable to minimum requirements of standards for each player to have mastered by the end of the season. Your coordinators job is to screen the volunteer coaches and to steward over them making sure they are coaching the correct things in the correct way to these kids. Those coaches need to know they are to follow a plan.The best situation of all it to get volunteer assistants from the high school or Jr. high level to also coach youth on a permanent youth staff. It is a lot of work for them but the quality of coaching is as good as you will find anywhere.

Great ideas - hard to instill. HS coaches are already taxed with having to compete at a very high level, and with all their attention (and that of their assistants) on the upcoming season for Fresh-Var ball that leaves little time to manage a bunch of youth coaches.

Don't get me wrong - great ideas, just about near impossible for smaller schools to accommodate. We tried for years to get everyone on the same page, the HS didn't\doesn't have the time, youth coaches start getting pressured to win (this stems from parent's living through their kids, not with their kids) and you also have some bad eggs that can't see past their own kid.

 

[Lenmaster]

Sure it can be done in the small schools. First of all the coaching staff has to contain a committed volunteer corps of coaches that are made to feel like they are part of the program and not just a necessary evil to be tolerated. When schools operate from the premise that all coaches have to be teachers to be effective you cut your nose off to spite your face. Sure this means extra work for the high school coaching staff but only for a while. You have to build tradition with your coaching as well as your players. Once the volunteer guys feel they legitimately matter they will buy in and stay faithful to your program. Get these guys in your film room, get these guys on your sidelines. Give them coaching shirts and a title in your high school program as well as youth program. Hold them to a higher standard and accountable for their attitudes and actions and they will respond. Once you get a handle on this you now have reliable help that actually lets you get more done than you ever dreamed you could. If you think of it, we ask this of our kids on the field everyday, why would you not also ask this of your coaching staff as well?

 

[Vroom_C14]

We have had higher participation numbers and more state championships with kids that never played youth tackle.

I agree with your ideas, hopefully we start seeing parents live with their kids and not through them.

 

[Lenmaster]

If they've never played youth tackle how do know it wouldn't have improved what you already have? Not contesting your point just giving you something to ponder. Your are correct parents are the key for a program that allows for development rather than demands championships at an age whey they don't matter.

 

[Vroom_C14]

If they've never played youth tackle how do know it wouldn't have improved what you already have? Not contesting your point just giving you something to ponder. Your are correct parents are the key for a program that allows for development rather than demands championships at an age whey they don't matter.

Couldn't really improve what the class had. Our comparison is that before YTF we had higher participation numbers (with smaller class sizes) and won more games. Even those players that came back to help coach the YTF on occasion stated "this just seems too young".

 

[Pinehawk]

I completely agree with the idea. I just think that it's just easier said than actually done.
It takes a very high level of organization and volunteer commitment. And, it only provides a marginal advantage.