Stats / Quikstats

[oonfoofoo]

This is just more proof that stats on Quikstats are not always what they seem. Away team coach in Western Iowa 3A game last night:

Relatively hard ball hit to shortstop but routine - not too hard because this school just put in new grass that stops the ball completely. Shortstop muffs ball, picks up from behind him and throws ball in the dirt. Within a few seconds home team registers error on the scoreboard and on the radio broadcast......

Quote from visiting coach after the inning in the visitors dugout: "I don't care what they scored it, it was a hit"....

From book guy: " but coach he was......"

coach: "I don't care....it was a hit".

Stats are overrated!

 

[PNation]

There are a ton of mistakes if you look for them. There's a coach who's team lost a game in extra innings tied something like 7-7 after 7 he brings his son in for the 8th inning and they lose the game, instead of giving the loss to the son like he should have, it is giving to the kid who started the game.

 

[oonfoofoo]

Crazy. Where I grew up home book was the record as it should be. If it's wrong...it is what it is but this is just ridiculous.

 

[pinkphantom]

Frankly I think many of the QuikStats are a joke. There are certain schools that have a reputation for just padding their stats in there and there are others that try to do it as accurately as possible. I know in our program, everything is done as correctly as possible. A hard grounder hit at the SS and he goes down to field it but mishandles it is going to get an error. But a hard grounder in the 5.5 gap where the 3B can't get to it, the SS gets to it running the wrong way and bobbles it is going to go down as a hit because he likely wasn't getting the runner out anyway. The benefit of the doubt always goes to the runner in a situation like that.

That's just one example. And I know it sucks and "should" be an error, but a mental error is not an error by stats. Same with pop flies that land on the ground without anyone touching it. Should it be an error? If the fielder should have been able to get there but didn't, maybe because three guys all go for the same ball and then back off due to bad communication, it's still a hit.

But I can tell you from the past that I can look through QuikStats at teams we've played in the past and there most certainly are junk stats in there for some teams.

 

[oonfoofoo]

I agree with you 100%. The case I am referring to was a clear error, the visiting teams book called it an error, the radio called it an error, the score keeper in the booth called it an error and the home team book called it an error. Quikstats even shows that the kid who committed the error got the error according to the home team....the visiting team shows their player with a hit.

It's just idiotic that two teams can have opposing stats. Maybe they should change it so the home team keeps book and then forwards the details to both teams so that it jives.

 

[Bob1650]

Totally agree!! In our program we have 2 people keeping book (1 book and 1 ipad) we often communicate to each other on questionable plays to assure our stats are accurate. I know it happens that some teams do not keep legitimate stats and its BS but what do you do? Have some type of accountability, stat comparison between teams? I don't know what the answer is but we will keep stats accurately regardless of what others do.

 

[capitol hawk]

The stat that I think gets abused the most is stolen bases. I think some teams credit a stolen base whenever a runner advances on a wild pitch or passed ball.

 

[pinkphantom]

If you're not running on the pitch it's not a stolen base. And I agree. A lot of teams just conveniently call it that.

 

[terrehawk]

"If you're not running on the pitch it's not a stolen base."

I do not believe that is entirely true.

If you are at 3rd base you can get a stolen base credited if you score on the throw to 2nd from the catcher.

 

[Saints85]

Or, if the catcher is lazy and lobs the ball back from his knees, and you are on first, second, or third and go on the release, isn't that a stolen base?

 

[tm3308]

Originally posted by Saints85:
Or, if the catcher is lazy and lobs the ball back from his knees, and you are on first, second, or third and go on the release, isn't that a stolen base?

Yes, that is the definition of a delayed steal.

 

[pinkphantom]

Yes I agree on both counts. I was using generalization mostly for when like a ball is in the dirt, runner reads that and goes. Stuff like that.

 

[terrehawk]

I might be inclined to give a SB to a player if he is reading a ball in the dirt and is taking off before it actually hits the catcher as opposed to waiting to see if it bounces away from the catcher. This is something that some teams teach their players. "As soon as you read the ball is headed for the dirt, you take off"

I realize that might not meet the text book definition of a SB but if my kids are going being taught this and they execute properly, I would reward them.

 

[oonfoofoo]

Only counts as a stolen base if it isn't a wild pitch or a passed ball. In my catching days if there was a kid with speed on first I would always try to make a pitch in the dirt look like a passed ball because about 95% of the time he would be there anyway.

 

[gg2224]

The MLB rule for stolen bases. More complicated than I thought, no wonder so many teams bail on getting this right.



10.07 Stolen Bases And Caught Stealing

The official scorer shall credit a stolen base to a runner whenever the runner advances one base unaided by a hit, a putout, an error, a force-out, a fielder's choice, a passed ball, a wild pitch or a balk, subject to the following:

(a) When a runner starts for the next base before the pitcher delivers the ball and the pitch results in what ordinarily is scored a wild pitch or passed ball, the official scorer shall credit the runner with a stolen base and shall not charge the misplay, unless, as a result of the misplay, the stealing runner advances an extra base, or another runner also advances, in which case the official scorer shall score the wild pitch or passed ball as well as the stolen base.

(b) When a runner is attempting to steal, and the catcher, after receiving the pitch, makes a wild throw trying to prevent the stolen base, the official scorer shall credit the runner with a stolen base. The official scorer shall not charge an error unless the wild throw permits the stealing runner to advance one or more extra bases, or permits another runner to advance, in which case the official scorer shall credit the runner with the stolen base and charge one error to the catcher.

(c) When a runner, attempting to steal, or after being picked off base, evades being put out in a run-down play and advances to the next base without the aid of an error, the official scorer shall credit the runner with a stolen base. If another runner also advances on the play, the official scorer shall credit both runners with stolen bases. If a runner advances while another runner, attempting to steal, evades being put out in a run-down play and returns safely, without the aid of an error, to the base he originally occupied, the official scorer shall credit a stolen base to the runner who advances.

(d) When a double- or triple-steal is attempted and one runner is thrown out before reaching and holding the base such runner is attempting to steal, no other runner shall be credited with a stolen base.

(e) When a runner is tagged out after oversliding a base, while attempting either to return to that base or to advance to the next base, the official scorer shall not credit such runner with a stolen base.

(f) When in the scorer's judgment a runner attempting to steal is safe because of a muffed throw, the official scorer shall not credit a stolen base. The official scorer shall credit an assist to the fielder who made the throw, charge an error to the fielder who muffed the throw and charge the runner with "caught stealing."

(g)* The official scorer shall not score a stolen base when a runner advances solely because of the defensive team's indifference to the runner’s advance. The official scorer shall score such a play as a fielder's choice.

(h)** The official scorer shall charge a runner as "caught stealing" if such runner is put out, or would have been put out by errorless play, when such runner
(1) tries to steal;
(2) is picked off a base and tries to advance (any move toward the next base shall be considered an attempt to advance); or
(3) overslides while stealing.

*Rule 10.07(g) Comment: The scorer shall consider, in judging whether the defensive team has been indifferent to a runner’s advance, the totality of the circumstances, including the inning and score of the game, whether the defensive team had held the runner on base, whether the pitcher had made any pickoff attempts on that runner before the runner’s advance, whether the fielder ordinarily expected to cover the base to which the runner advanced made a move to cover such base, whether the defensive team had a legitimate strategic motive to not contest the runner’s advance or whether the defensive team might be trying impermissibly to deny the runner credit for a stolen base. For example, with runners on first and third bases, the official scorer should ordinarily credit a stolen base when the runner on first advances to second, if, in the scorer’s judgment, the defensive team had a legitimate strategic motive—namely, preventing the runner on third base from scoring on the throw to second base—not to contest the runner’s advance to second base. The official scorer may conclude that the defensive team is impermissibly trying to deny a runner credit for a stolen base if, for example, the defensive team fails to defend the advance of a runner approaching a league or career record or a league statistical title.

**Rule 10.07(h) Comment: In those instances where a pitched ball eludes the catcher and the runner is put out trying to advance, the official scorer shall not charge any “caught stealing.” The official scorer shall not charge any caught stealing when a runner is awarded a base due to obstruction or when a runner is called out due to interference by the batter. The official scorer shall not charge a runner with a caught stealing if such runner would not have been credited with a stolen base had such runner been safe (for example, when a catcher throws the runner out after such runner tries to advance after a ball that had eluded the catcher on a pitch).