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Lisbon

mtrain4854

Freshman
Aug 19, 2006
338
1
18
Just seeing if all have caught wind of this story. I've been kind of following it and waiting to hear if anything was going to come out of it and it sounds like there are some details starting to surface potentially. A very unfortunate thing happening there after such a successful football season and the makings of a successful wrestling season.

KCRG - Lisbon
 
This isn't "unfortunate." This is disgusting, horrifying and an afront to any level of decent humanity. Anyone who comes on this page and defends this action is beneath contempt. If these charges are proven, Lisbon needs to completely clean house -- coaching staff, administration -- and suspend the program for a year or so. This is what has happened to a once proud sport and an once proud program. I've been in this sport for 50 years and I can not believe this could be possible.
 
Lets hold mtrain4854 down and urinate on him and put our genitals in his face and then see if he thinks it is "unfortunate" because Lisbon had a successful football season...next he will blame the bullied kid for ruining the wrestling season...
 
I'm saying that it is unfortunate that something like this happened or ever does happen. These kids should have been riding a high and leaving a positive mark on their school and instead did something sick like this. The fact that you would think that I, or anyone for that matter, would be defending this is sick in itself. This is totally wrong and I'm hopeful that others that have been affected by this are able to get the opportunity to tell what has happened to them so that those who did this are punished, expelled, charged, etc.
 
What bothers me as much as anything else is the fact that the administration is treating this the way they are. Schools make a big production about their anti-bullying policies, but usually do little about it unless it goes public. They should shut down the program for the rest of the season. This is kid issue, but it's also a coaching issue and an administrative issue, and there needs to be answers to that.
 
Shut the program down????????????? What about the kids who are on the team and had nothing to do with it or were the victims? We're going to shut down there season too? Punish the wrongdoers, but there doesn't need to be innocent people punished.
 
Because if you're ever going to send a message about anti-bullying, I can't think of a better way to do it. You can't tell me that no one else knew about this other than the bullies themselves. And you can't tell me the coaches didn't know. They should be fired. And if there was any attempt by the administration to cover this up, they should go too. Hazing and bullying are serious matters and should be dealt with seriously. If the actions of the bullies cause the season to be cancelled, the bullies are clearly the bad guys. As it is now, the kids who turned them in will be the bad guys and it will only get worse for them. Lisbon needs to clean house and canceling the season is a good place to start. I'll guarantee it will never be a problem again.
 
I have no problem with being strict, cleaning house, having those who are to blame pay. I would even be in favor of closing shop as long as the iahsaa.org would allow the innocent ones to find a school to compete for with no penalty. I don't know who the kid was in the story that was linked above, but that wrestler should get a chance to continue to wrestle. Society owes him that at the very least.
 
The 6:00 KCRG News said that Lisbon police are investigating this matter as both bullying and possible sexual assault. And that apparently it's been going on for years. This is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. As for what society owes the victims of this abomination, it actually owes them a climate in which things like this are outlawed and the people involved are removed from the sport and from contact with young people for LIFE.
 
Before anyone accuses me of supporting the offenders in this incident, let me be perfectly clear. If the allegations are true, these young men have crossed way, way, way over the line and should face the stiffest penalties that the district conduct policy allows, including getting kicked off the team.
What concerns me even more however, is the implication that this has been going on for years. I would be very interested in knowing if this group of seniors simply carried things much further than previous groups, or if this was the level of hazing that has been the norm for them. I would expect and even condone a certain level of hazing, especially at a program with a rich tradition like Lisbon's. But if it has been at the level suggested in this report and on these posts, then the coaches are the ones who should face criminal charges. I'm not giving the wrestlers a pass by any means, but if they've been conditioned to beleive that these levels are acceptable, then taking the sport away from them plus a school suspension is probably sufficient.
 
This also gives one pause to wonder how many other programs this kind of thing happens in. What might be a "rite of passage" might just be as bad as what is happening in Lisbon.
 
Lonetreehawk:

Here's the thing: The edict from any and all responsible schools today is that there is SUPPOSED to be zero tolerance for any kind of hazing. Hazing is now bullying and it really should be. Condoning hazing is condoning bullying.
You bet the coaches should be fired, their licenses permanently revoked and face criminal charges. And if there are administrators who were aware of this and either covered it up or looked the other way, they should face the same punishment.
But the kids who did this should too. I realize there is this caveman, macho mentality in wrestling that probably promotes this kind of atrocity, but as educators, coaches are supposed to be promoting teaching kids right from wrong. And if the coaches aren't going to do it, the parents should have. I throw the kids who did this right under the same bus as the coaches and administration. The message needs to be sent that this kind of crap will not be tolerated anywhere at anytime and that anyone involved will be dealt with as harshly as the law and society will allow.
 
The last people to know are probably the coaches. From locker room to practice room, to their own personal homes, to overnight trips in hotel rooms. ECT ECT ECT. These kids and all teams activities have time where they are alone and its impossible to supervise 15 to 30 kids every minute.
If they knew about it and did nothing, shame on them.
I'm not even wanting to comment on this. I am more commenting on your huge over the top allegations against the coaching staff. YOU act like they were in the front row holding the kid down. IF they were I would be shocked. If they were they will be fired. Give the system a chance to work.
Why would kids that are doing this in private (im assuming the locker room and took the kid in the shower) ever tell a coach that it was going on???? They wouldn't. The victim might have, another student on the team might have but what if they didn't? How would the coaches know????
Your so sure they knew,,, who are you to judge these men??? who are you to shut down a program???? LET the professionals do their job and then you can decide if it meets your approval. There is a lot for these administrators to figure out. Give them all a chance.
You think about this... How do you think those coaches feel knowing that this happened to their TEAM? Probably helpless because they didn't know about it. Supervision is never going to be 100%, that is impossible. Most coaches don't stand in the shower room and watch their team shower after practice. In fact I don't know anyone who would. There are mats to clean, video to watch, freshman to teach a headlock to, gear to pass out, med kits to restock, homework to check up on. Kids to give pep talks to and PARENTS to give pep talks and advice to.
At some point where does it come to the personal responsibility of individuals to not act like animals? These are not 12 year olds, the kids who did this knew what they were doing and should not have done it period.
Blaming everyone else for it until you know the truth is ridiculous.
 
Does anyone find the TIMING of this to be unbelievable??? With what happened at Penn State and Syracuse, wouldn't you think that kids would reconsider their actions? Of course I mentioned this based on the alleged actions of putting their genitalia in the victims face. That was the first thing I thought of.
 
Originally posted by se xc1:
Does anyone find the TIMING of this to be unbelievable??? With what happened at Penn State and Syracuse, wouldn't you think that kids would reconsider their actions?

No. Because they're kids.

Certainly not every kid, but the VAST majority of teenagers/young adults live their lives with the mindset that "it won't happen to me." Consequences are always for someone else. Unfortunately, sometimes, they do find out otherwise. This should be one of those times.
This post was edited on 12/29 9:31 AM by augvol
 
Why wouldn't a kid think this is acceptable behavior with the crap our society has allowed to be made and distributed for our kids to see.

How many of these kids have seen a "Jackass" movie where the main characters urinate and rub their junk on cast members all the time while they are supposedly sleeping. That behavior is amoung the tamest that you will find on those type of shows. There is no place in our society for a movie where someone paints their rear like a volcano and then makes it errupt.

You can try to keep this crap out of your home but kids still get exposed to it via "friends" ect. It would be a lot easier to just keep this stuff from being created.

Do these kids need to be held accountable YES. The ones who did it should be done wrestling-no matter who you are. If you saw it but didn't report the issue, you receive a lessor penalty but still enough to make you realize that although it isn't cool to rat on someone, sometimes you just gotta do it.

If they can prove that coaches or administrators were aware of this happening or tried to cover it up afterwards then it should be immediate termination-non negotiable regardless of who or how many people are involved.
 
Josey I can see where you are coming from on this issue. I will say however that your response is similar in nature to the responses that you are attacking, you are just on the other side of the issue. Let the chips fall where they may and let the investigation get completed and then we can discuss the situation, in reality we will never know what exactly occurred and who knew what and when did they know it. Patience will help with this case.
 
Call it attacking call it what you want. My main concern is that a boy was abused, things need to be made right.
Witch hunting the entire school system is stupid. These boys made bad decisions. Period.
I agree with you 100% let things play out. I said that in my post.
I am not personally involved, I do know kids and coaches from Lisbon. We don't send Xmas cards or anything like that.
I just hate when people who obviously don't know what they are talking about start calling for peoples heads.
I'm not trying to be the defender of all that is holy here but some people speak up and some don't. Silence is acceptance sometimes and I can't accept that blanket statement from someone who does not have the facts. I guess I am attacking. So be it.
However I don't have facts on this. I'm just saying wait and see and quit talking big about what should happen...until there are some facts. Opinions are free educated opinions are appreciated
 
If I had to say, there are probably cover-ups in almost all school districts of some nature. Most school systems are close knit and usually cover for their own. I can name a situation where more then one teacher "moved on" to another system because of a problem, and the administration had to have known about the problem. They just kept quiet about it and let it perpetuate by not turning the teacher in, to law enforcement. Some of the posts are right in that most school districts proclaim a zero tolerance on bully problems, but never do much about it. Instead, they keep a 2nd grader out of school for a week for bringing a common kitchen table knife in his lunch pail, but they don't deal with the bully.
 
Josey, you're probably right that and I over-stated the coaching staffs culpability if these allegations prove true. And you're definitely right that we need to let the investigation run it's due course.

One thing's for certain, though. You can bet a great many coaches are having serious discussion's with their own teams about hazing and initiation practices. My heart goes out to the alleged victim(s) in this case. But perhaps something beneficial can spring from it.
 
Originally posted by augvol:

Originally posted by se xc1:
Does anyone find the TIMING of this to be unbelievable??? With what happened at Penn State and Syracuse, wouldn't you think that kids would reconsider their actions?

No. Because they're kids.

Certainly not every kid, but the VAST majority of teenagers/young adults live their lives with the mindset that "it won't happen to me." Consequences are always for someone else. Unfortunately, sometimes, they do find out otherwise. This should be one of those times.

This post was edited on 12/29 9:31 AM by augvol

I agree 100% with Augvol here, those were my exact thoughts when I first read se xc1's post.

If there was some way that hazing could be limited to things like throwing shaving cream at the freshmen after they are done showering or carrying an older teammates gym bag on away meets, then I would be all for it. I remember some light hearted things like that occurring to me way back in the day and I never felt abused, etc. But from what I have read about this situation it is FAR, FAR beyond a good natured initiation, it really is criminal abuse. Very sad.

I also agree with whomever wrote about the Jackass movies...kids are pretty impressionable and given that that crap is comedy to some, it should be no shocker to find some others emulating their schtick on others. As parents, what are we letting our kids watch?

Also, let the facts come out and then judge the coaches, other teammates, etc. A radical, over the top punishment of people who had no roles in the poor behavior could actually lead to others NOT reporting similar situations in the future because they do not want to risk getting someone innocent in trouble, etc.
 
It just came out on the Channel 9 News that the Linn County Attorney is preparing criminal charges in this case.
As for whoever it was that said the coaches are the last ones to know what's going on in the locker room, that's a nice cop-out, but way wrong. I will guarantee you that when all of this broke, the coaches have been in more "Meet Jesus" meetings with the AD, administrators, and school board members than they ever knew existed. When you're the coach, you are responsible for those kids from the minute they step into the locker room to the minute they leave and every minute in between. Anything less is laziness.
This is going to get uglier. Criminal charges, probably some massive lawsuits against the coaches and the school and we've basically lowered Lisbon into the same cesspool as Penn State and Syracuse.
 
Josey:

Here is what stinks about this case:
1. This was all really quiet up until the point that Lisbon pulled out of a meet. When a Cedar Rapids Gazette reporter started asking questions, he was told by administrators that it was a "violation of school policy and it was being handled internally." In so many words, "Go away."
2. Once parents of the kids who were attacked started going to the media, all of a sudden the whole investigation changed. Now kids have been suspended from school and we're finding out that it was "the senior members of the team" involved. Those kids were all kicked off the team. One parent said that the perpatrators had received the same treatment when they were younger.
3. Now the administration is suddenly being cooperative.

You're right in the fact that calling for people's heads without all of the facts. If that's how my post came out, I'm sorry. But, this has cover-up written all over it. If that is the case, there needs to be as serious a house-cleaning as there was at Penn State. And that is speaking both as a journalist and a former wrestling coach.
 
it's truly saddening to read about something of this nature going on anywhere in high school wrestling. it's even sadder, having wrestled in college for Al Baxter, to see it happening at the school he turned into a wrestling powerhouse. and to think these kids would believe what they did was in any way acceptable or even remotely normal is a sick commentary on the lives we now lead. 30 years ago, we'd have never even considered doing something of this nature to a teammate. the worst we ever did, that i can recall, was creamagesic in a jock, if someone wasn't showering enough, washing their gear appropriately or was just being a problem in practice. we would have never stood for someone attempting to do such a thing to anyone.

and Josey, i'm sorry, but, on this one, you're way off. we had 2 coaches in high school, and i don't ever recall a moment, in the locker room, where we didn't know for a fact one or the other was in the room, keeping tabs on what was going on with us. they were on top of things, not sitting in the office or watching tape, etc. when practice was done, we hit the showers and they monitored our actions in the locker room. and that was a time when teammates rarely stole from each other, so there really wasn't much to watch out for then. today, these kids think nothing of taking someone else's phone, mp3 player, wallet or car keys. why wouldn't the coaches be rotating through the room until everyone had left the building?

either way, i would hope the administration and the school board has conducted an honest and thorough investigation and will be removing all those responsible for these actions and, at least sanctioning any staff members who failed to oversee their charges during and after practices, as they are paid to do. that doesn't mean they would need to be fired, necessarily, but it certainly means firing isn't out of the question, if it's appropriate. shutting down the program should only happen if the entire staff was aware of and condoned or turned a blind eye to the actions of the former members of the team. and then, it would be done for lack of qualified educators able to take over the task of coaching the team for the rest of the season. after all, the kids who were attacked have suffered enough in this. they shouldn't lose their opportunity to compete and learn, just because they were victims of punks.

and i'd like to see the students responsible spend some time in some form of criminal detention, and do a lot of both community service and counseling, as it appears they need to learn the truth about the actions they undertook and the harm they likely have caused to their teammates. only unapologetic kids should be given the harshest penalties. they are young enough to learn and correct their paths, rather than be put away as bad apples who can't be reclaimed. but the most certainly need to face the very real possibility of adult sentences for an adult crime. they may not scare straight, but we can hope.
 
Coaches do not sit in the locker room and supervise the showers.

"How was practice today son?"

"Good. But afterwards the coach stood in the locker room and watched everybody in the shower."

You think that conversation would go over well at home?

Should the coaches be around? Absolutely. Usually coaches will sit in the coaches office with the door open, listening for anything out of the ordinary. But what is out of the ordinary? Loud voices? Loud music? Laughing? A loud scream? Those are all pretty common occurences when you get a group of 14-18 year old boys showering together.

I agree with Josey. The coaches would be the last to know in a situation like this. Like he said, once they did find out it would be there responsibility to investigate and do what is necessary.
 
Although I am long since removed from HS sports...I remember plenty of things happening in the locker room that the coaches did NOT know about. Sure, they caught some of the stuff, but probably only 20%-30% of the hijinks happened where they could see it. Now then, I do not remember anything as offensive happening in our locker room as what is alleged to have happened at Lisbon, but I can imagine that it would have been possible to do such a thing and the coaches not know it.

I expect that any coach would stop that type of stuff immediately, but there are NUMEROUS scenarios in my mind where the coach(es) may not be aware of any particular event.
 
I think it is terrible about what is going on in Lisbon. I find it sad that it appears that the district is trying to cover some of the story up but I also feel like they are being directed by an outside source/attorney.

I have also heard of a situation that I would consider worse than this at an Iowa high school and not much is being done about it. In this case the victim isn't pressing charges yet and the boys that committed the crime are missing time in sports. One student has left the district and moved so that he could still try to wrestle this year. The new school district will not let him wrestle this year either and there are rumors of a lawsuit against the school from the kids parents now.

I find it sad that hazing in high school sports are leaving scars that will last a life time. I remember messing around in high school or making the freshmen carry equipment bags but we never did anything like this.

It saddens me to think that the parents/schools don't hold the kids accountable for their actions.
 
Welcome to the world where the norm is "win at all cost" and it means exactly that.

Too many coaches who feel they must win to keep their jobs. Unfortunately that leads to cowing even more to whatever behavior the prima donna's choose to exhibit. A lot of heads get stuck in the sand or code of conduct rules get "bent" (but not broken). It isn't a problem for the majority of the kids who are good, but there are too many bad apples who exploit this to the max.

IMO this is one of the negatives of open enrollment. If you don't let Johnny A. Stud have his way and behave as he likes he can pack up and move to another school which will put up with his BS as long as he produces. If Johnny A. Stud didn't have the option of flying to another school after he crapped in his nest it would give coaches more leverage to deal with inappropriate behavior (and might subsequently get them to pull their heads out of the sand).

I could see coaches then having a "Come to Jesus" meeting with Johnny A. Stud and telling him, "look punk, if you don't straighten up - you'll be riding the pine and if that makes our team lose then it's on YOU! You are the one who will have to sit on the bench and watch a kid with less talent but more morales than you play."
This post was edited on 1/4 8:02 PM by stickman80
 
cake_lover:

First of all, what you referred to must me bad if you consider it worse than what has happened at Lisbon. I would urge you to report it to the nearest media outlet and let the power of the press loose on it. It seems to be the only thing that gets schools from trying to hide their secrets under a basket.

But, I do want to add, school districts are probably one of the most hamstrung government entities when comes to being transparent. By law, they can't publicly release information about disciplinary matters involving either students or staff. But at the same time, they need to get out in front of situations like that. Where Lisbon has screwed up in this matter is that they did not come out and say, "yes, we do have a situation with the wrestling program here, we are going to take extreme and strong action and while we can not indentify the individuals involved, we will punish them to the fullest event possible, including possible criminal action."

But they didn't do that. They tried to brush off a Top-10 ranked team skipping a double-dual for no apparent reason with a rather terse statement, then hoped the whole thing would go away. Now it's big and getting bigger and now Lisbon's wrestling program -- and the whole school district -- has a big ugly stain all over it. And it's not going away anytime soon.
 
stickman:

All I can say is BRAVO! No possible way I could say it better. Coaches who don't know what's going on don't want to. It's as simple as that. Problem is that allowing things like what apparently happened in Lisbon gets you fired faster than losing.
 
I feel like you have seen me in person if you are calling me cake lover!

I have sent a few letters of concern out to media outlets, PD, and the BE. It makes me sick to think about the story that I have heard and unfortunately I have heard it from several sources. I believe the story to be true and there are several twists and poor choices involved.

I work for a school district so I know what you mean when you say that they have their hands tied. In the situation I am referring to, the boy who committed the crime, is going to sue the school because he is not able to wrestle this year at a different school (that is the latest rumor anyway). Districts are terrified of law suits in today's world and in many cases it is a shame.
 
First of all, this was not a hazing in any way. This involved kids in every class. Theres been a total of six or so kids suspended from school and kicked off the team. I heard it was two seniors, two juniors, and two sophomores. I have also heard that the alleged "victim" was involved with doing this to some of his teammates as well. I'm not trying to stir the pot..unlike dadthencoach, because nobody outside of Lisbon actually knows what going on besides what they are hearing on the news. Do people not know that the news can report whatever they want if they have a source? I'm not defending anyone in this post, just the community of Lisbon.

How do people think it's a cover up? The school has done their part by interviewing kids on the team, turning everything over to the police department, then started suspending kids and kicking them off the team. Believe me folks, this wasn't a cover up.. even though the Dad in the dark said it was.
 
IaHawk, do you think the school would have taken the actions it has if the Gazette,KCRG had not ran with the story? No insights here, just curious.
 
The school was already taking action before the media was contacted by the kids father. They pulled in every wrestler separate for questioning. In the room was the superintendent, principal, and police chief. The school and police department can't figure out what happened overnight. Things like this take time.
 
Something similar to this Lisbon situation, happened in the Avoca schools back in 05.

Not on the same level but still similar, in another situation, but this time involving a wrestling coach, who seemed to have made the rounds at 5 to 8 schools before he apparently stopped coaching. Maybe he is still coaching, I hope not. I still can't figure out how all of the 5 to 8 school administrations didn't turn him into law enforcement. Hell, I don't understand why the parents didn't go hunting for him or file charges with the county attorney. It's been a long time ago, but at the time, it looked like each school that had him as a coach, seemed to keep it hush hush and just ask him to resign. He then went to the next school and did the same thing for his tenure until that school asked him to leave. From what some wrestling coaches said back then in the 80's to 90's, he did this 2 or 3 times in Iowa, then moved to Minnesota for 2 different school coaching stints before moving back to Iowa to coach and continue in the late mid to late 90's and 2000's. He certainly had or may still have a problem. My opinion is that the school boards and the administrations of those 5-8 schools were all guilty of cover-up and are just as guilty.
 
Things like this are the reason I think high school sports will look very different in the future. With budgets falling, and problems like this, I think most high school sports will become club sports much like hockey is today. Schools dont need this and their primary function is to educate!
 
Schools don't need the bad publicity and for bad things like this to happen. However, schools need extracurriculars like sports. Part of the education is being involved in sports, band, etc. and let's face it...some kids only show up because they are involved.
 
I agree, but in our area, we have Hockey (many injurys, dangerous). Trap shooting (high school kids with guns) that are already club sports, not really school sponsored, so when things like this happen, a school could wash its hands of the whole mess. Just thinken outloud
 
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