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Baseball ejections

Boomer51

Freshman
Jul 19, 2002
540
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Was shocked when read this.


To date (as of this week)


there have been 41 ejections.


33 players and 8 coaches.


This is by far and away the MOST in any sport!


Someone said tho, that those ejections for players include how they slide??


Does anyone have an explanation for this high amount of ejections?

This post was edited on 6/27 3:36 PM by Boomer51
 
With the coaches it is just unacceptable. It is HS baseball for goodness sake. No reason whats so ever for a HS coach to get run. An umpire isnt going to change his mind so why argue to the point of ejection. Just pathetic I feel. As for the players malicious contact has to be the biggest factor. Umpires have really cracked down on the contact in baseball. Also language. Players get run for dropping loud F bombs which is the right thing to do. Again it is HS baseball no need for the vulgartity and profanity. Good for the umpires, i really think they should tighten up on some players and coaches. Some of the things I see and hear during games is ridiculous.
 
Originally posted by Who Are You:
With the coaches it is just unacceptable. It is HS baseball for goodness sake. No reason whats so ever for a HS coach to get run. An umpire isnt going to change his mind so why argue to the point of ejection. Just pathetic I feel. As for the players malicious contact has to be the biggest factor. Umpires have really cracked down on the contact in baseball. Also language. Players get run for dropping loud F bombs which is the right thing to do. Again it is HS baseball no need for the vulgartity and profanity. Good for the umpires, i really think they should tighten up on some players and coaches. Some of the things I see and hear during games is ridiculous.
Well said.
 
Players can get ejected for sliding incorrectly - know of at least one ejection for that reason. Player did not slide with a play a tthe plate and he led with his shoulder in an attempt to knock ball out of glove.
 
I did see an umpire who should of been in a retirement home toss a player for thinking he heard something that the player didn't say, that the other umpire said he heard differently and I would guess that ever other person at that game heard differently but the guy wouldn't change his mind. I am not saying that there are other examples of this but there are as we know some power hungry umps out there.
 
Umps seem to have much more thin skin than they should. Carrying ego's to the field/court seems much more prevalent than it used to be.

On the flip side, there are some fans that take it a little too far at times.

IMO, both are at fault.

an aging and inexperienced umpire pool and a hypersensitive hyper competitive group of parents/coaches/players/faans seems to be leading to problems.
 
Not defending or giving excuses for anything a player or coach does which justifies an ejection ----but the association has put all the power into the umpires hands with no "real" evaluation of them (even though umpires get to evaluate players, coaches, and fans). There are some umps out there that are the "show". Had one tonight who told our catcher he was going to squeeze us....
 
With everything I said above I have seen umpires hold grudges, or blatently atagonize fans etc. I am a coach and one of our fans was riding an ump, i talked to the fan and asked him to stop, which he did, but the umpire's zone that half ining did see to get smaller. I am an advocate for blue, but wasnt happy with the way he responded that inning. We walked the bases loaded before he went back to his normal zone.
 
Had an umpire with an inconsistent zone stop the game after a fan said "don't give up on the curve ball blue" call the coach out and tell him he was resoponsible for keeping his crowd under control and that was the visiting team. I have heard the crowd get on an umpire and as I was sitting with the home crowd they couldn't understand what the issue was because they couldn't even hear our crowd.
 
I have seen coaches this year argue the silliest things instead of teaching the kids what they are doing wrong. For instances arguing balk calls. Being a coach for awhile and then switching over to umpiring helps cause I was on the other side. I am sad to say that I have seen a lot of coaches making comments to umpires about something! Instead of just coaching the game to make the players get better and do the best they can to give them the opportunity to win the game. A umpire can not tell a coach what he should do when he is coaching or criticizes what he did wrong.
 
If am umpire doesn't know the rules and is ruling incorrectly because of that I can understand. But coaches (or players) arguing judgment calls of an umpire is wrong. In that case it is the judgment of the umpire of fair/foul, ball/strike, safe/out, interference/obstruction, etc. and the umpire's opinion is the only one that matters. I feel it is all relative to the rest of the world's inability to accept being told they are wrong.
 
Not defending anyone. Just pointing out that umpires can have bad judgement on the items you mentioned smallcenter as well as possibly not knowing the rules. In situations like that it can make the coach look bad standing up for his team. A coach may very well have the right to be upset with the umpire and to call him on it, but the way he does it is what is important. This is where you get into the discussion of how well the umpire handles the power he is given when dealing with an upset coach questioning his decision, but each needs to handle the situation responsibly.
 
Being a coach who has done just that, stood up and had some 'discussions' with umpires, the way you go about it is really at the heart of the matter for most ejections.


I have been ejected 4 times in a 20+ year career of coaching at the youth, high school, legion and junior college levels. I have never been ejected for language and of the 4 times, I would say 3 were good calls because of how I talked with and reacted to how the umpire was talking with me about a call. Anytime that I have gone out calmly talked with an umpire, even when I have flat out told an umpire that "the call was wrong and being in a great position doesn't matter when the call is blown", I was not ejected but simply told to go back to the dugout and watch the rest of the game. I have even had umpires come to me between innings and say hey, I might have missed a call or had a catcher come tell me that the umpire said he missed a strike or ball call on such and such pitch last inning. The better relationship that you can develop with umpires between innings and over the games, the better.


I recently had an umpire that was working a game that I was ejected from run into me at a local store and because we have been on the field many times together as coach-umpire, he told me his view of the situation where I was ejected from the game by his partner and was pretty frank with me about what he say on my part.


As I coach more, I try to talk with the umpires more duing the game and between innings about the little things and just get a chit chat going so that if a situation comes up where we disagree enough to talk about it, it is not the first conversation that we have had that day. I was told to do that by a former coach who had a long career in the game of baseball and said he knew it helped him in more than a few games to stay in because the umpire was someone he did not know well but they had previously talked enough that game to be able to have a little back and forth.
 
to many umps work games from their home towns or schools they attended. state also allows it in playoffs
 
Originally posted by yankees19:

to many umps work games from their home towns or schools they attended. state also allows it in playoffs

The first part of what you said is true for many rural towns. Keep in mind that it's still the school's responsibility of hiring them. Most umpires go through assignors who act as a scheduler between the schools and umpires. A school could possibly request that a specific ump doesn't get assigned there for whatever reason, but being an alumni I would guess is not one of the reasons. Take an area like SW Iowa for example. The available umpires there are far and few between and getting umps from DSM or Omaha is very difficult. Thus it's no wonder that many alumni or residents of the town end up doing a game or two there. I would say there's some limitations on that: 1) An umpire should not do more than 2-3 games at any given site, no matter where it is and 2) The umpire should not be doing a game if there are direct relatives (son, nephew) playing. I've officiated games of my alma mater in other sports; once the game starts, you don't notice it.


The second part is not true unless the umpire is playing the system and not reporting which schools he should not be assigned playoff games to. When you sign up to be nominated for post-season work, you have to identify which school districts you have a conflict with (alumni, residency, teaching job). I would say an umpire playing the system is extremely rare.
 
Originally posted by Leemark:

Not defending anyone. Just pointing out that umpires can have bad judgement on the items you mentioned smallcenter as well as possibly not knowing the rules. In situations like that it can make the coach look bad standing up for his team. A coach may very well have the right to be upset with the umpire and to call him on it, but the way he does it is what is important. This is where you get into the discussion of how well the umpire handles the power he is given when dealing with an upset coach questioning his decision, but each needs to handle the situation responsibly.
Bad judgement is just that, judgement. The only judgement that matters is the umpire. Yes, they miss calls, but as another poster said, and quite well I might add, its all in how you approach it and what kind of relationship you've established with the umpire. If every time you see each other you, as a coach, come out whining or screaming and that's all you do, the umpire is not going to respond to you very well. But if you take five minutes before the game and talk with them about something that pertains to something other than the specific game being worked (i.e. players you've seen you've been impressed with, where they are from, what do they do outside of umping) you might find that you develop that relationship so later you can ask the umpire by first name what he saw.
 
I was at the West Marshall (13) vs Hudson (10) game tonight and saw a 90 year old Hudson man ejected in the last inning. Never seen anything like that. They stopped the game and said they wouldn't restart until he was gone. Painfully long to watch this old duffer waddle to the gate. I will say that this old guy was apparently heckling opposing players through out the night so maybe it's justice he got run). However, there is more than just this.

I didn't hear anything personally that warranted an ejection but I wasn't over there. (It was the base ump) It was obvious to everyone from both sides that both of these umpires were just looking for a fight all night from the beginning.

Early in the game, the home plate ump made a call on a foul ball roller down the 3rd base line where the 3rd baseman field it bare handed. It looked like the correct call from my standpoint. A few Hudson fans voiced their displeasure thinking it was fair but nothing seemed too harsh or vulgar. Just typical chirping from what I heard. The ump turned and was talking back to them and kept going on and on and on. He then walked over to the fence and confronted them. VERY unprofessional. He ABSOLUTELY escalated this situation. He then called in the AD to give them a warning.

All night they both were just looking for things. You could constantly hear the home plate guy chirping away himself over every funny look or reaction. Almost baiting kids at times.

I think he is from Marshalltown. IMO from what I've seen from him over the years in basketball and baseball he is a total and complete jackass. He does nothing but try to control a game (when there is nothing to control) and is always looking for a confrontation. In particular with fans.

THIS guy (both of them in fact) are the kind of people that have NO business officiating. Park your ego at the door and just do your job. We shouldn't even know you are there. Yes, you are going to get fans that disagree with calls from time to time. There is a point in which you SHOULD stop play and address someone who is out of line. However, that does not mean you respond to every criticism you hear.
 
Today in a game between Sioux City North and Sgt. Bluff there was an incident. North sacrificed bunt and there runner got tangled up with the SBL shortstop between 2B and 3B. The coach for North argued that there should of been interference. He wasn't ejected but the ump said to him if he, a player, or a fan said anything to the umps during the game , he was going to eject the coach. This is totally bush. This guy shouldn't be allowed to ump. It was even on the local newscast tonight and you could clearly hear it on TV.
 
This is the second post I have seen where Hudson fans have been mentioned in a week. The Hudson fans were getting into it with the Umpires and fans at Grinnell on thursday, the 5th. Hudson did have a player ejected for going into second base hard.
 
It sounds like the same crew that decided not to show up to a game this past week because they thought it was too hot, and didn't think they should have to umpire, leaving a coach and AD to scramble to find a crew. I am not saying the Hudson fan wasn't partly in the wrong, but these guys have been terrible for years, and have always been arrogant and looking for confrontations.
 
100% it's the umpires. I used to be one! My partners had such ego's that I couldn't umpire with them anylonger. I don't like to see the kids getting into it with the umpire no matter how provoked. However, most coaches are spinless when it comes to working with their administrators when fingers are pointed at them by the Iowa High School Athletic Assoc.


Do any of you know the only requirement to be an umpire is a closed book exam consisting of 100 questions?


I would bet it's the same umpires that ejected the majority of coaches or players. Need to look no futher than the umpires record.
 
You can't obtain that info can you?

I don't even think umps are evaluated by schools/coaches are they? Isn't this now just a one way street? The umps evaluate the school and the coaches but not the other way around? If so, that's BS
 
There are alot of very good umpires out there, but we have ran into a few this year that have no business being on the field. I know that not every call is going to be right. You see missed calls at every level of play. That happens sometimes. We had a crew down in Twin Cedars a week or so ago that was absolutely horrible, I mean maybe a 50% correct call ratio. Not just against our team but for both teams. Both teams were throwing quality pitchers and I felt sorry for both. That same night I witnessed the home plate umpire grab a kid by the jersey and spin him around so he could argue with him. The kid had watched a 3rd strike go by to end the game, he turned toward his dugout and threw his bat in disgust with himself and kept walking toward his dugout. The umpire hollered at him, but the player kept walking to his dugout. The umpire then raced after him, grabbed his jersey and spun him around to chew on him for throwing the bat. My opinion is if the coach wants to jump on his player for throwing the bat is fine and should happen. However, the game had ended and the ump should have been exiting the field himself rather than chasing down a kid and making physical contact with kid.

Any thoughts? Has anyone else witnessed an umpire initiate contact with a highschool player?
 
An umpire like that should be banned for the physical contact with a player, and truthfully in today's age probably could or should face some sort of assault charges.
 
Originally posted by pv89:
However, the game had ended and the ump should have been exiting the field himself rather than chasing down a kid and making physical contact with kid.

Any thoughts? Has anyone else witnessed an umpire initiate contact with a highschool player?
In this case, I believe the ump could eject the kids for throwing the bat since he still has jurisdiction on the field. Then the kid would miss the next game. He should not have gone to the chewing/grabbing part. That is way wrong. The one that should have chewed the kid is the coach, before the ump could even get to him. The kid is way out of line and the coach is way out of line if he did nothing to correct the kid.
 
Originally posted by circleherk1:
You can't obtain that info can you?

I don't even think umps are evaluated by schools/coaches are they? Isn't this now just a one way street? The umps evaluate the school and the coaches but not the other way around? If so, that's BS
Nope, you are wrong. The coaches are allowed to evaluate and recommend
officials. This is how state tournament officials are assigned.



And RCCDOG, you must be out of the loop and out of umpiring for a while. Passing the closed book test is no longer the requirement. Now, you must pass the online test every year at 75% or better, you must watch or attend a rules meeting, AND you must attend an umpiring clinic every three years if you wish to work the state tournament. Not as lax as you'd like people to believe.
 
What about an ump 'baiting' a player with the intent of tossing him.


This happened a couple weeks ago:


Player1 contests being called out at 1B due to an improper slide by Player2 at 2B during a double play attempt. A brief confrontation flares up between player1 and ump. His coach immediately intervened and the umpire explained the ruling to the coach. The player and coach returned to the dugout. Everyone except the player had acted properly to this point.

With the double play ruling, the inning was over.

The ump then moves to the 2B area. Player1 has been the 2nd baseman for the entire game.

As player1 takes his warm-up tosses, the umpire initiates an exchange with the player, "we're done, right?" The player responds to the question, "Yes, sir." The field orientation is such that several spectator's heard this exchange.

The umpire immediately tosses the kid.

In my view, the umpire acted improperly when he put himself in the player's immediate vacinity and then reopened the incident by conversing with the player. If the ump moves to his position behind first base, no interaction occurs and the kid stays in the game.
 
Originally posted by gg2224:

What about an ump 'baiting' a player with the intent of tossing him.


This happened a couple weeks ago:


Player1 contests being called out at 1B due to an improper slide by Player2 at 2B during a double play attempt. A brief confrontation flares up between player1 and ump. His coach immediately intervened and the umpire explained the ruling to the coach. The player and coach returned to the dugout. Everyone except the player had acted properly to this point.

Agree, the umpire should just move on. However, the player could/should have been restricted or ejected with the "confrontation". That is unacceptable by the player in HIGH SCHOOL BASEBALL. Again, the coach needs to teach what is proper for players and this confrontation does not happen. I bet this does not happen in the successful programs with the veteran coaches.
To get ejected for saying "Yes, sir" I bet there was an attitude that came with it. Still, ump should have moved on after he did not originally do anything to the player.
 
Saw one last night after the game was OVER! Nevada kid was ejected as the ump walked off the field after they lost in extra innings...heard it was justified as he said "you guys f------ suck". Unbelievable that the kid would even attempt to get away with that...I would hope the coach gives him more than just the mandatory one game but doubt that will happen.
 
Too many kids are learning from their parents at an early age to argue and disrespect the officials.


I'm seeing kids at a very young age in basketball and baseball starting to argue with the refs over every little thing. Those are the same kids who have parents jawing the officials every time their "little precious" gets a call that doesn't go their way.


I was at a basketball game last winter and a 5th/6th grade kid started arguing with the ref over a block he picked up that he thought should have been a charge. It was clearly a block. THe ref started out being nice since at this age it is all still a learning experience. Finally after way too much backtalk from the kid, instead of ejecting the kid the ref finally just said loud enough for everyone to hear, " Kid you need to spend some time learning the game instead of learning the blame game." "Coach, why don't you find a seat on the bench so this young man can sit down a while, watch and hopefully learn something about basketball ! "


The kids Dad walked out of the gym in a fit of rage.


It's not fun being a coach and "inheriting" a kid with that kind of baggage.
 
A good umpire will explain his call, engage in discussion within reason, will even admit to a blown call, the attitude that smallcenter projects of the umpire's judgement is the only one that counts is true, however that approach will alientate most of the people that umpire comes into contact with. Their judgement wins in the end, however that doesn't put them beyond being questioned for their judgement. It happens every day in every business, my business has over 1,000 transactions a day, think people don't question my judgement? we have way more variables then an umpire has to deal with and guess what my judgement is final, but I can guarantee if I held on to the "my judgement is the only one that counts" I would be out of business, we all make bad "calls" how we deal with it makes the difference between good umpires/bad umpires etc.
 
There is more to this story than presented here. The 2b was playing an over exaggerated glaring game at the umpire instead of going about his business. The umpire initiated the conversation after dealing with the staring game. Also, a good base umpire will typically stand in shallow right field between innings. He may not have known the player in question was a 2B. I don't know if the EJ was legit or not, but to hold the player blameless in this is not a proper representation of the events.
 
the job of any umpire (or official) is to try to keep the players in the game. There are times that situations warrant an ejection, vulgar language, improper slide, any kind of physical confrontation. There are some umps that have egos.

Watched an ump the other week that was by far the worst ump I have ever seen. He would over-try to get into position to "act" like he was closer to the play so no one would second guess his call because 'he was so close.' the problem was as he was running closer to the play, he never had a steady set of eyes to properly see the call. (missed about 3 out/safe calls that were fairly obvious)

You cannot argue judgement calls, but the coach (in my opinion) could argue that the ump needs to set himself to watch the play properly. Another peeve of mine is watching an ump rush a call and make that call within .5 a second after the play (that shows me they have pre-meditated the call). A good ump will observe the play, think briefly about what they saw, and then make the call.
 
Now cid, what would you do if you had a teenage employee at your company that started a confrontation with you over a judgement that you made at work. Then another employee walked him away, but then he met up with you a few minutes later and then glared at you, shook his head, and sighed at you? What would happen?. This confrontation should have never happened in the first place. High school sports has no place for this. The attitude of this player evidently needs addressed and totally unacceptable. The ejection would have NEVER happened if the player had just gone to the dugout after he was called out. Respect your elders whether you agree or not.
 
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