Xavier Transfers

[Hawksince73]

Some will read it as Xavier "Transfers" but it's an interesting continuation of the recruitment / transfer argument between the private and public school factions. Enjoy.

Transfers hope to have big impact on Xavier basketball
http://www.thegazette.com/subject/s...have-big-impact-on-xavier-basketball-20151202

 

[Saywhat2]

Number one, the article is written by a Xavier student promoting his school. Number two, someone could write the same article about Linn Mar, or many other public schools.

 

[Ford26]

Number one, the article is written by a Xavier student promoting his school. Number two, someone could write the same article about Linn Mar, or many other public schools.

For sure there are public schools that have benefitted from the transfer of athletes, and also some who have probably been actively engaged in the process.

That being said, it is not true for 95% of the public schools.

You don't think the kids were being honest, or are you suggesting that an adult would simply make it sound better?

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

Some will read it as Xavier "Transfers" but it's an interesting continuation of the recruitment / transfer argument between the private and public school factions. Enjoy.

Transfers hope to have big impact on Xavier basketball
http://www.thegazette.com/subject/s...have-big-impact-on-xavier-basketball-20151202

Says the one kid talked to the coaches before transferring. I still don't understand the recruiting rules in Iowa, if there are any.

 

[Saywhat2]

For sure there are public schools that have benefitted from the transfer of athletes, and also some who have probably been actively engaged in the process.

That being said, it is not true for 95% of the public schools.

You don't think the kids were being honest, or are you suggesting that an adult would simply make it sound better?

You're joking right? Let's make a list of "transfers" from public to private schools and from public to public schools. 95% of public schools have never benefitted from an athlete transferring in? Come on now, I can list at least 20 kids just off the top of my head, public schools having athletes transfer in. There aren't any recruiting rules in Iowa. It's called open enrollment. I know of one public school that recruited, I mean, got lucky with foreign exchange students from the Czech Republic who just happened to play on the Czech national basketball team. Randomly ended up at the same public school. What luck! Personally, I think a kid should be able to go wherever they want. Let's just stop pretending it is primarily a private school thing.

 

[cm8124]

nope not the same public schools always get in trouble doing so, these catholic schools have the money to travel and be in a league of their own.

 

[Vroom_C14]

So do the transfers get scholarships if they can't afford to go to Xavier? If the incoming student isn't a star athlete, do they get consideration for enrollment if they are not able to afford the tuition? Are they denied if they cannot afford the tuition?

 

[denmar81]

So do the transfers get scholarships if they can't afford to go to Xavier? If the incoming student isn't a star athlete, do they get consideration for enrollment if they are not able to afford the tuition? Are they denied if they cannot afford the tuition?

I can't speak for all private schools but the one I send my kids to offer tuition assistance to any family that wishes to enroll their children. The assistance is in the form of reduced tuition, and STO grants, which is monies from donations. Many families don't think they can afford a private education when in fact they can. For me, the cost of yearly tuition is no more expensive than what we payed for childcare when they were younger.

 

[Pinehawk]

So do the transfers get scholarships if they can't afford to go to Xavier? If the incoming student isn't a star athlete, do they get consideration for enrollment if they are not able to afford the tuition? Are they denied if they cannot afford the tuition?

I agree. It is much more complicated and difficult for a private school transfer than a public school one.

 

[cidhawkeye]

nope not the same public schools always get in trouble doing so, these catholic schools have the money to travel and be in a league of their own.

I am not certain that people understand the private school situation very well. Far easier to attract a kid through 'open enrollment' than to recruit a kid to a private school. As far as the 95% public schools don't benefit? Another example of someone who doesn't quite know what the situation really is.

 

[Ford26]

I am not certain that people understand the private school situation very well. Far easier to attract a kid through 'open enrollment' than to recruit a kid to a private school. As far as the 95% public schools don't benefit? Another example of someone who doesn't quite know what the situation really is.

Then I assume a listing of all these athlete transfers at all the public schools will be following? Cid, you have been quick to demand "evidences" when receiving accusations of the same. I will be the first to tip my hat to you. If you would prefer to limit your report to just athletic-purposed transfers in the last few years to/from the 3A schools within a 70 mile radius of Des Moines, that would be fine by me.

Please remember to eliminate the obvious top 5% of the most obvious public school open enrollee beneficiaries from your discussions. I am very interested to be informed about what the situation really is out here.

 

[cidhawkeye]

Then I assume a listing of all these athlete transfers at all the public schools will be following? Cid, you have been quick to demand "evidences" when receiving accusations of the same. I will be the first to tip my hat to you. If you would prefer to limit your report to just athletic-purposed transfers in the last few years to/from the 3A schools within a 70 mile radius of Des Moines, that would be fine by me.

Please remember to eliminate the obvious top 5% of the most obvious public school open enrollee beneficiaries from your discussions. I am very interested to be informed about what the situation really is out here.

I will see what I can come up with. Not sure I will be able to generate a lot of specific names of kids in the radius you mentioned. We can look at the number of students that OE to and from schools and apply a participation % to determine an approximate number which could be athletic transfers. I don't think that will satisfy your request.

To point out a small difference in methodology when I ask for specific evidence it is generally in response to a specific statement about an individual school. Things like at Regina this year 50 of the 52 kids have been there since 7th grade and 46 of the 52 since kindergarten. When faced with a recruiting 'statement'

 

[Ford26]

I will see what I can come up with. Not sure I will be able to generate a lot of specific names of kids in the radius you mentioned. We can look at the number of students that OE to and from schools and apply a participation % to determine an approximate number which could be athletic transfers. I don't think that will satisfy your request.

To point out a small difference in methodology when I ask for specific evidence it is generally in response to a specific statement about an individual school. Things like at Regina this year 50 of the 52 kids have been there since 7th grade and 46 of the 52 since kindergarten. When faced with a recruiting 'statement'

I have followed athletics in this general area for many years. I do not have a completely comprehensive knowledge of all the facts, but I cannot think of many transfers in or out of 3A programs that might be construed as athletically-motivated and changed the competitive success of the team. I just do not believe it is anywhere near as prevalent in the average public school as you and some seem to suggest.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

I've said this a bunch on here, but while there is a bit of an advantage for private schools because of recruiting (I think anyone unbiased would admit they recruit more than your average public school, and this team is a good example with all these kids coming from different schools), the real issue is the number of kids the private schools don't take in. A much bigger majority of private school kids are athletically able than the public schools, which is why many states have went to a multiplier or have bumped the private schools all up one class.

 

[cidhawkeye]

All good points, I thought it was going to be safe to have this discussion but then someone has to go to the 'which is why many states have went to a multiplier or have bumped the private schools all up one class.' It is a factually inaccurate statement that people throw around as if it is a fact, it isn't.

About not taking kids in, english as a second language, special needs etc so there is a lot of truth on those fronts, private schools do take some kids as a 'last hope' but it isn't nearly the amount that public schools do. In looking at open enrollment numbers these are the net gains of some of the 3A schools

Marion 453
DCG 231
Decorah 207
Clear Creek 191
Solon 129
CPU 128
WSRock 121
Harlan 121
ADM 105

There are reasons for all transfers and none of these may be for athletics but I watched my sons class go from 64 to 48 between 8th and 9th grade while the schools was in the midst of some decent athletic results. It happens at both sets of schools, more on the public side than most would think. The advantages for the private school I support are pretty heavily out weighed by the disadvantages.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

All good points, I thought it was going to be safe to have this discussion but then someone has to go to the 'which is why many states have went to a multiplier or have bumped the private schools all up one class.' It is a factually inaccurate statement that people throw around as if it is a fact, it isn't.

About not taking kids in, english as a second language, special needs etc so there is a lot of truth on those fronts, private schools do take some kids as a 'last hope' but it isn't nearly the amount that public schools do. In looking at open enrollment numbers these are the net gains of some of the 3A schools

Marion 453
DCG 231
Decorah 207
Clear Creek 191
Solon 129
CPU 128
WSRock 121
Harlan 121
ADM 105

There are reasons for all transfers and none of these may be for athletics but I watched my sons class go from 64 to 48 between 8th and 9th grade while the schools was in the midst of some decent athletic results. It happens at both sets of schools, more on the public side than most would think. The advantages for the private school I support are pretty heavily out weighed by the disadvantages.

Actually, it is very true: http://highschoolsports.cleveland.c...nal-fight-between-public-and-private-schools/

At least half of the states have talked about it, while we've chose to ignore the competitive imbalance. Still think that will be on the table in a few years, though.

Whatever private school you support might be at a disadvantage, but for the most part, the private schools are crazy successful year after year, especially in basketball. They already have a huge advantage, so then if there is some under the table recruiting that gets let slide by (not saying there is for any schools, just if), that creates a huge problem. It's hard not to follow 3A basketball and notice that there is something wrong.

 

[cidhawkeye]

Actually, it is very true: http://highschoolsports.cleveland.c...nal-fight-between-public-and-private-schools/

At least half of the states have talked about it, while we've chose to ignore the competitive imbalance. Still think that will be on the table in a few years, though.

Whatever private school you support might be at a disadvantage, but for the most part, the private schools are crazy successful year after year, especially in basketball. They already have a huge advantage, so then if there is some under the table recruiting that gets let slide by (not saying there is for any schools, just if), that creates a huge problem. It's hard not to follow 3A basketball and notice that there is something wrong.

If you don't realize the difference between 'have went to' versus 'have talked about it' than our conversation won't be a very good one. It's the common tactic where people throw out a factually inaccurate statement hoping nobody realizes how much of a load of crap it is and then when it is noticed changes what they said. If you dig into the states with multipliers you will see the 'crazy successful' status doesn't really change.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

If you don't realize the difference between 'have went to' versus 'have talked about it' than our conversation won't be a very good one. It's the common tactic where people throw out a factually inaccurate statement hoping nobody realizes how much of a load of crap it is and then when it is noticed changes what they said. If you dig into the states with multipliers you will see the 'crazy successful' status doesn't really change.

If the success stats don't change, then why are you so against it? Are you saying Wahlert/Xavier/Assumption etc.. would just dominate in 4A too, so might as well keep them in 3A? That's sound logic.

 

[cidhawkeye]

If the success stats don't change, then why are you so against it? Are you saying Wahlert/Xavier/Assumption etc.. would just dominate in 4A too, so might as well keep them in 3A? That's sound logic.

I referenced the states that put in the multiplier. Please don't attempt to put words into my mouth either, where did I mention a team dominating in 4A so keep them in 3A? You need to work on replying from a perspective other than emotional. Mix in a few facts from time to time is a good place to start.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

I referenced the states that put in the multiplier. Please don't attempt to put words into my mouth either, where did I mention a team dominating in 4A so keep them in 3A? You need to work on replying from a perspective other than emotional. Mix in a few facts from time to time is a good place to start.

Emotional? I don't go to any of these schools. You have stated already your bias towards private schools. You are the one speaking on emotion. But you've also admitted that there are advantages that the private schools have over the public schools. But you still don't think we need a multiplier? Yes or no?

 

[cidhawkeye]

Emotional? I don't go to any of these schools. You have stated already your bias towards private schools. You are the one speaking on emotion. But you've also admitted that there are advantages that the private schools have over the public schools. But you still don't think we need a multiplier? Yes or no?

You haven't seen anything from me other than getting annoyed when people like you make a statement, present it as fact when you don't really know what you are talking about. I have never wavered from my point of view that private schools have advantages, they also have significant disadvantages that in some places overwhelm the advantages. Regarding the multiplier, it hasn't really been shown to achieve what the adopters want it to do so no I don't have an interest in putting it in. If there are other alternatives out there I think the state should look into it. If for nothing else to appease the people who think privates win just because they are private.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

You haven't seen anything from me other than getting annoyed when people like you make a statement, present it as fact when you don't really know what you are talking about. I have never wavered from my point of view that private schools have advantages, they also have significant disadvantages that in some places overwhelm the advantages. Regarding the multiplier, it hasn't really been shown to achieve what the adopters want it to do so no I don't have an interest in putting it in. If there are other alternatives out there I think the state should look into it. If for nothing else to appease the people who think privates win just because they are private.

Well, privates do win just because they are privates, unless you are saying it's just a huge coincidence that they win so often in every state. If it wasn't a problem, nobody would talk about it. And I don't see any disadvantages at all in being a private school in Iowa where there is no multiplier. I'm OK with any alternative, just as long as the private schools are bumped up. A one class bump or a multiplier would be best. I don't think there are enough private schools to have them play in their own league. And I believe you said earlier (maybe in a different thread) that you go to/went to one of the private schools. I have no dog in this fight, I just want fairness to win in the end.

 

[sarcastico]

Well, privates do win just because they are privates

Wait, you do realize there are a lot more private schools then the handful that have successful athletic programs right? Because it doesn't seem like you do. This is one of the most ridiculously false statements I have ever seen. There are a lot of private schools in this state that have very little athletic success. But, let's punish all of them because of the success of a few. I have to agree with cid, you really don't know what you are talking about.

The reality is there are some advantages that some private schools have. There are also some disadvantages for many of those same schools. Just are there are advantages and disadvantages among the ranks of public schools. In public school systems you can have huge disparities in terms of the socioeconomic surroundings of the school district which will often have a direct effect on the athletic success of that school. For example a school system like Gilbert has huge advantages over one such as Greene County. Both are 3A schools, but one look at the differences in their facilities can tell you they are not on equal paying fields. Do we need to set up multipliers for situations like this as well. Or maybe we can realize that no matter what you do things will never quite be fair.

Also, you keep bringing up other states as if their situations are directly comparable to Iowa. The states that have a mulitiplier also have huge cities which are not comparable to Iowa. Very few, if any, States with similar demographics to Iowa do not have multipliers so please stop that argument because it just doesn't work.

 

[cidhawkeye]

Wait, you do realize there are a lot more private schools then the handful that have successful athletic programs right? Because it doesn't seem like you do. This is one of the most ridiculously false statements I have ever seen. There are a lot of private schools in this state that have very little athletic success. But, let's punish all of them because of the success of a few. I have to agree with cid, you really don't know what you are talking about.

The reality is there are some advantages that some private schools have. There are also some disadvantages for many of those same schools. Just are there are advantages and disadvantages among the ranks of public schools. In public school systems you can have huge disparities in terms of the socioeconomic surroundings of the school district which will often have a direct effect on the athletic success of that school. For example a school system like Gilbert has huge advantages over one such as Greene County. Both are 3A schools, but one look at the differences in their facilities can tell you they are not on equal paying fields. Do we need to set up multipliers for situations like this as well. Or maybe we can realize that no matter what you do things will never quite be fair.

Also, you keep bringing up other states as if their situations are directly comparable to Iowa. The states that have a mulitiplier also have huge cities which are not comparable to Iowa. Very few, if any, States with similar demographics to Iowa do not have multipliers so please stop that argument because it just doesn't work.

Going to have to strongly agree with Sarcastico. 'They win because they are private' still chuckling at that one, I did play at a private as did/do my kids, even played at a private university as does one of my sons. Never reads - There may be an answer out there, I am intrigued at what Minnesota is doing, look it up and share your thoughts... The 'it's not fair' pity party doesn't work well.

 

[maxstabs13]

The thing about school transfers... Transferring from public school to public school has become just as easy as transferring from public to private schools... Yes, private schools recruit... Yes, public school recruit... The only legit argument is the fact that SOME private schools... Assumption, Xavier, Dowling, Columbus... Are drawing kids from a huge population area that has year around sports leagues/AAU... Then having them play down 1 or 2 classes against small town teams makes it nearly unfair. At the same time many of the top talent public school kids will go to the private schools on scholarships and suddenly the inter city public schools can't compete in athletics.

They need to base your class qualification on amount of girls and amount of boys separate and exclude kids who receive free and reduced lunch. Some of the 4A teams that struggle the most would drop 1-2 classes if they don't count free and reduced students in the numbers.

I could give you proof that it is easy, but I'm sure you will eventually hear about the changes next year in the MAC>

 

[sarcastico]

You have a point there max, there are many kids leaving schools for athletic reasons, especially from inner city schools. Some are going to private schools, but many are also just transferring to public schools with more successful athletic programs. It really isn't just a private school issue.

I think looking into the system you propose would be a better fit for Iowa than a straight up multiplier. Although I am not entirely convinced that would solve the issue either as smaller schools would start to complain about having 4A schools moving down to their level.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

Wait, you do realize there are a lot more private schools then the handful that have successful athletic programs right? Because it doesn't seem like you do. This is one of the most ridiculously false statements I have ever seen. There are a lot of private schools in this state that have very little athletic success. But, let's punish all of them because of the success of a few. I have to agree with cid, you really don't know what you are talking about.

The reality is there are some advantages that some private schools have. There are also some disadvantages for many of those same schools. Just are there are advantages and disadvantages among the ranks of public schools. In public school systems you can have huge disparities in terms of the socioeconomic surroundings of the school district which will often have a direct effect on the athletic success of that school. For example a school system like Gilbert has huge advantages over one such as Greene County. Both are 3A schools, but one look at the differences in their facilities can tell you they are not on equal paying fields. Do we need to set up multipliers for situations like this as well. Or maybe we can realize that no matter what you do things will never quite be fair.

Also, you keep bringing up other states as if their situations are directly comparable to Iowa. The states that have a mulitiplier also have huge cities which are not comparable to Iowa. Very few, if any, States with similar demographics to Iowa do not have multipliers so please stop that argument because it just doesn't work.

Lol, wait. Your "disadvantage" for some private schools is that their facilities are sometimes worse? Even though by in large, they have much better facilities than public schools? That's a really dumb argument. There are no real disadvantages for private schools, and certainly none that over weigh the huge advantage of being able to control your enrollment number.

Please, though. On the "There are a lot more private schools than the handful that have successful athletic programs." Please list out all the private schools that compete in 3A and give me their record last year and how far they made it in the post season.

You have to be completely bias to convince yourself there is no clear advantage for private schools. But excuses like, "Oh but don't you see those schools who don't compete for a championship in every single sport" are why the playing field continues to be so unbalanced, and why the postseason game between Wahlert and Xavier will likely decide the 3A champion once again this season.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

The thing about school transfers... Transferring from public school to public school has become just as easy as transferring from public to private schools... Yes, private schools recruit... Yes, public school recruit... The only legit argument is the fact that SOME private schools... Assumption, Xavier, Dowling, Columbus... Are drawing kids from a huge population area that has year around sports leagues/AAU... Then having them play down 1 or 2 classes against small town teams makes it nearly unfair. At the same time many of the top talent public school kids will go to the private schools on scholarships and suddenly the inter city public schools can't compete in athletics.

They need to base your class qualification on amount of girls and amount of boys separate and exclude kids who receive free and reduced lunch. Some of the 4A teams that struggle the most would drop 1-2 classes if they don't count free and reduced students in the numbers.

I could give you proof that it is easy, but I'm sure you will eventually hear about the changes next year in the MAC>

This is EXACTLY what should happen. Exclude kids who can't actually compete in athletics, so a public school with a BEDS of 300 but 1/3rd of them aren't actually available in athletics isn't facing a private school of 400 able kids, some of which get scholarships, in the district tournament every year.

The recruiting crap can be figured out for both private and public schools as long as the states either punish the coaches who do it every year or just come out and say they really don't care if coaches recruit (which is the reality).

 

[sarcastico]

Lol, wait. Your "disadvantage" for some private schools is that their facilities are sometimes worse? Even though by in large, they have much better facilities than public schools? That's a really dumb argument. There are no real disadvantages for private schools, and certainly none that over weigh the huge advantage of being able to control your enrollment number.

Please, though. On the "There are a lot more private schools than the handful that have successful athletic programs." Please list out all the private schools that compete in 3A and give me their record last year and how far they made it in the post season.

You have to be completely bias to convince yourself there is no clear advantage for private schools. But excuses like, "Oh but don't you see those schools who don't compete for a championship in every single sport" are why the playing field continues to be so unbalanced, and why the postseason game between Wahlert and Xavier will likely decide the 3A champion once again this season.

Ummmm, Greene County is a public school so you completely missed the point of my argument. I was pointing out the disparity that can occurs at that level as well. I already admitted that private schools have some advantages. But as I was saying, It is not just private schools that can have clear advantages over others. Also I didn't realize this conversation was limited to just 3A schools. I was clearly referring to all private schools in state not just one class. You really seem to be struggling here, might want to read things a little closer before responding next time.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

Ummmm, Greene County is a public school so you completely missed the point of my argument. I was pointing out the disparity that can occurs at that level as well. I already admitted that private schools have some advantages. But as I was saying, It is not just private schools that can have clear advantages over others. Also I didn't realize this conversation was limited to just 3A schools. I was clearly referring to all private schools in state not just one class. You really seem to be struggling here, might want to read things a little closer before responding next time.

This thread is about Xavier, a 3A Team. So, what you're saying is Gilbert, a public school, has advantages over Greene County, another public school? Then you are not adding to the discussion at all. Your comparison makes no sense. If both teams are public, neither of them can control their enrollment. It has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

 

[sarcastico]

This thread is about Xavier, a 3A Team. So, what you're saying is Gilbert, a public school, has advantages over Greene County, another public school? Then you are not adding to the discussion at all. Your comparison makes no sense. If both teams are public, neither of them can control their enrollment. It has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

The thread may have been started about Xavier but you repeatedly made claims about private schools in general, that is what I was addressing. I will give you that many 3A private schools have built in advantages which help them excel at sports. You never established that your statements about privates were restricted to 3A though, so yeah I am going to call out your ridiculous argument that privates win just because they are privates.

You also brought up that you "just want fairness to win in the end", which is where my public school argument comes in. I was demonstrating that even if you do something to address any perceived unfairness with private schools there would still be plenty of unfair situations to go around. Some schools will always have advantages against others be it private vs public or public vs public. There will always be some level of unfairness in the system. People will always find something to complain about. Again try to read what I actually wrote, it makes sense and does apply to the discussion at hand.

 

[cidhawkeye]

Go to Solon with top notch facilities and pay $0 to go there or go to Xavier with decent facilities and pay $5,000 a year. Advantage Solon. Is this a good enough 3A comparison?

 

[cidhawkeye]

What will probably happen is Beckman, Kuemper and Waterloo Columbus will move up to 3A and take turns because you know they are privates and privates will win because 'never reads' says they will win because they are private. Like the way he 'thinks' on these things.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

The thread may have been started about Xavier but you repeatedly made claims about private schools in general, that is what I was addressing. I will give you that many 3A private schools have built in advantages which help them excel at sports. You never established that your statements about privates were restricted to 3A though, so yeah I am going to call out your ridiculous argument that privates win just because they are privates.

You also brought up that you "just want fairness to win in the end", which is where my public school argument comes in. I was demonstrating that even if you do something to address any perceived unfairness with private schools there would still be plenty of unfair situations to go around. Some schools will always have advantages against others be it private vs public or public vs public. There will always be some level of unfairness in the system. People will always find something to complain about. Again try to read what I actually wrote, it makes sense and does apply to the discussion at hand.

Not "many" private schools. All private schools have that built in advantage. Some private schools take advantage of it better than others, but they all have that built in advantage of being able to control their enrollment, and accept the athletes while turning away the non-athletes.

So you are admitting there is a built in advantage. But you don't want to do anything about it because "There will always be some level of unfairness." So why try at all to make it fair, right? Might as well have all the schools just play in one class, then? You can't sit there and admit there is an unfair advantage and still argue to basically not do anything about it.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

Go to Solon with top notch facilities and pay $0 to go there or go to Xavier with decent facilities and pay $5,000 a year. Advantage Solon. Is this a good enough 3A comparison?

Dude, come on. This isn't even about whether public schools or private schools have the better facilities. But even if it was, arguing that one public school has better facilities than one public school doesn't work. Private schools on average have much better facilities. You're not looking at the big picture at all, and I think it is because you know that if you do, you will find yourself to be wrong in this.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

I would like to state again in this argument that I do not attend any of these Iowa schools nor do I have kids that do. I am arguing from a purely unbias and fair perspective. You guys are arguing from a bias one. You don't want things to change because you benefit from the unfairness.

 

[sarcastico]

You are still not getting what I am saying. A lot of schools have built in advantages, some are private some are public. Not all private schools have the same advantages. You keep talking about fair, I don't think it is fair to treat all private schools equally in requiring a multiplier. I don't think it is fair to single out the advantages privates have while ignoring the built in advantages many public school districts have. When it comes down to it you want fairness but are not proposing a fair solution.

If you want to have his conversation let us look at the whole picture and not just resort to the private schools are cheating tired old argument. Is there a way to create an even playing field amongst all teams? I'm really not sure. I know one thing, a private school multiplier is not going to get that done. The best option I have heard is still the one maxstabs put forward in taking out the students on free and reduced lunches or something along those lines. There are still some issues to work out with that but at least it is a valid conversation to be having and addresses more issues than just the dreaded private schools.

Also the idea that any private school is accepting athletes while turning away non- athletes is just as ridiculous as your whole privates win because they are private argument. It just doesn't happen. Private schools need tuition and are not turning away anyone who seriously wants to go there. That is why they have scholarship programs and other forms of financial aid for those who may not be able to afford it. I had multiple classmates who were the furthest thing from athletes who were receiving aid in order to attend. If you seriously want to have this conversation you really need to have some understanding of how private schools work here in Iowa.

One last thing, it is impossible to argue without some bias, that is just human nature. So even though you may not have a direct stake in the situation there is clearly some bias here.

 

[cidhawkeye]

Not "many" private schools. All private schools have that built in advantage. Some private schools take advantage of it better than others, but they all have that built in advantage of being able to control their enrollment, and accept the athletes while turning away the non-athletes.

So you are admitting there is a built in advantage. But you don't want to do anything about it because "There will always be some level of unfairness." So why try at all to make it fair, right? Might as well have all the schools just play in one class, then? You can't sit there and admit there is an unfair advantage and still argue to basically not do anything about it.

After demonstrating that you don't really understand high school athletics you go all in to show how little you know about private schools and how they function.

As far as facilities go public schools generally have an advantage there, included is the support of the arts and additional class offerings as well as AP classes.

For someone with no bias in the discussion you sure seem to only look at things from one perspective.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

After demonstrating that you don't really understand high school athletics you go all in to show how little you know about private schools and how they function.

As far as facilities go public schools generally have an advantage there, included is the support of the arts and additional class offerings as well as AP classes.

For someone with no bias in the discussion you sure seem to only look at things from one perspective.

I'm looking at things from a fair perspective, which you are not because you enjoy the advantage. What do AP classes have to do with athletics? You're just throwing out random crap at this point.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

You are still not getting what I am saying. A lot of schools have built in advantages, some are private some are public. Not all private schools have the same advantages. You keep talking about fair, I don't think it is fair to treat all private schools equally in requiring a multiplier. I don't think it is fair to single out the advantages privates have while ignoring the built in advantages many public school districts have. When it comes down to it you want fairness but are not proposing a fair solution.

If you want to have his conversation let us look at the whole picture and not just resort to the private schools are cheating tired old argument. Is there a way to create an even playing field amongst all teams? I'm really not sure. I know one thing, a private school multiplier is not going to get that done. The best option I have heard is still the one maxstabs put forward in taking out the students on free and reduced lunches or something along those lines. There are still some issues to work out with that but at least it is a valid conversation to be having and addresses more issues than just the dreaded private schools.

Also the idea that any private school is accepting athletes while turning away non- athletes is just as ridiculous as your whole privates win because they are private argument. It just doesn't happen. Private schools need tuition and are not turning away anyone who seriously wants to go there. That is why they have scholarship programs and other forms of financial aid for those who may not be able to afford it. I had multiple classmates who were the furthest thing from athletes who were receiving aid in order to attend. If you seriously want to have this conversation you really need to have some understanding of how private schools work here in Iowa.

One last thing, it is impossible to argue without some bias, that is just human nature. So even though you may not have a direct stake in the situation there is clearly some bias here.

No. All private schools have this built in advantage. They all have the ability to control their enrollment. That's not really debatable. Everyone that covers or is involved in high school sports in any way knows this, and only graduates or parents of private school kids seem to deny it, which is really a shame because it slows down the process of creating a fair playing field.

I never said private schools were "cheating" because they aren't. Many of the successful ones are just using the advantages given to them. And I agreed with MaxStabs as you did, if you just would read my posts.

Just because you know people in private schools that don't play sports doesn't mean private schools don't have way more able bodies than public schools. You are letting your bias cloud your judgement. If you just look at it from an unbias position, you can clearly see that the private schools have a higher percentage of kids who are able to play sports.

My only bias is from seeing postseason tournaments, especially in 3A (The highest class in which you can still control your enrollment to not go a class higher), where a handful of private schools completely embarrass the majority of public schools year in and year out.