If you could only choose one, would you rather have
1. Shot Clock
2 Holiday Tournaments
Why or why not?
1. Shot Clock
2 Holiday Tournaments
Why or why not?
Would you rather have
- Thread starter LukeFeddersen
- Start date
Shot Clock because that would be beneficial all season long. I would also like Holiday Tourneys, because the 1 week rule over Christmas is pointless. But I would take Shot Clock all day over Holiday Tourneys.
1. Shot Clock.
I'm a fan of the no games between Christmas & New Years.
A valuable mini-lesson that BB isn't the most important thing, especially during the holidays.
I'm a fan of the no games between Christmas & New Years.
A valuable mini-lesson that BB isn't the most important thing, especially during the holidays.
Can I vote for neither? I hate the shot clock with a passion boarding on mental health issues. The shot clock ruins high school and college basketball. Simply a lack a quick enough guards and shot selection collapses. Games are ugly to watch and getting uglier.
I agree with neither although I would prefer holiday tourneys over a shot clock if I was forced to choose. I agree, the shot clock has ruined the college game and the lower it goes the worse it gets. College ball is all three point shooting and dribble drive penetration. It's becoming more like the NBA which is unwatchable. The true post is becoming obsolete. If the shot clock was say a minute, to prevent an all out stall, then sure, I would be in favor in high school.
SHOT CLOCK.
Nothing more boring than watching athletic teams get down by 6 and just staled for 3 straight minutes at a time
Nothing more boring than watching athletic teams get down by 6 and just staled for 3 straight minutes at a time
Would having a shot clock make the overall game better at all classes? Would it make it better in some classes?
I am not a fan of holiday tournaments. I agree with Vander, kids spend more than enough time consumed with sports these days having them take some time off, especially around the holidays, is a good thing.
I would be cool with seeing a shot clock brought in. For good teams it really shouldn’t have much of an impact as they will be looking to score before it expires anyway and only serves to reward good defense by forcing teams into shots they otherwise might not take. The reality is if you can’t get a decent shot of in 35 seconds you probably won’t be getting a decent shot off anyway.
I think the current focus on three point shooting and penetration is more of just an evolution of the game then a direct result of the shot clock. I have really enjoyed these opening games of the college season and think the reduced shot clock, along with the other changes, have made for a more entertaining form of basketball. I know some purist may disagree, but right now there is nothing more entertaining than watching Golden State play ball. We are already seeing more of this trickle down to the college and high school levels. The game is changing, it makes sense for the rules to follow suit.
I would be cool with seeing a shot clock brought in. For good teams it really shouldn’t have much of an impact as they will be looking to score before it expires anyway and only serves to reward good defense by forcing teams into shots they otherwise might not take. The reality is if you can’t get a decent shot of in 35 seconds you probably won’t be getting a decent shot off anyway.
I think the current focus on three point shooting and penetration is more of just an evolution of the game then a direct result of the shot clock. I have really enjoyed these opening games of the college season and think the reduced shot clock, along with the other changes, have made for a more entertaining form of basketball. I know some purist may disagree, but right now there is nothing more entertaining than watching Golden State play ball. We are already seeing more of this trickle down to the college and high school levels. The game is changing, it makes sense for the rules to follow suit.
The shot clock in college is now 30 seconds and I've heard from a reputable college official that 24 second shot clock is not that far off. If it made the game better, the NBA would be an extremely popular sport to watch. The reality is, is that it isn't. I guess you could call me a purist. I would much rather watch a team run an offense with a series of sets than run a few high post screens, penetrate and kick for a three most times down the court. The old Indiana Hoosiers of decades past would screen the hell out of you for minutes to get a good shot. The game continually gets tinkered with. Scoring is down, shooting percentages are down, the midrange game is nonexistent. I'm sure I'm in the minority but, the high school game is fine as it is.
Shot clock is not practical in my opinion, so I don't think it is worth arguing. I don't think there is enough outcry from high school programs to adopt it statewide, not to mention that I'm sure the vast majority of ADs and school districts would oppose it as it would require added costs.
Therefore, I will vote for holiday tournaments, although, I would just say "holiday games." I think schools should have the discretion to schedule during the break if they choose, whether it be a single game or tournament. I think there would be a lot of alumni from out of town/state who would want to watch the current players if they were in town over the holidays. I think it would be a great time for a rivalry game! Besides, I know my sons have hated it how you get the season going and then after 7 or 8 games have two weeks off. It throw off rhythm.
I understand why some would be opposed to it, but why not leave it up to the individual schools?
Therefore, I will vote for holiday tournaments, although, I would just say "holiday games." I think schools should have the discretion to schedule during the break if they choose, whether it be a single game or tournament. I think there would be a lot of alumni from out of town/state who would want to watch the current players if they were in town over the holidays. I think it would be a great time for a rivalry game! Besides, I know my sons have hated it how you get the season going and then after 7 or 8 games have two weeks off. It throw off rhythm.
I understand why some would be opposed to it, but why not leave it up to the individual schools?
While the NBA may not be nearly as popular as the NFL to say it is not a popular sport is not at all reality. It is ahead of baseball and hockey in terms of viewership. Last years NBA Finals saw the highest ratings since Jordan’s last championship. Heck, even the last NBA draft saw the highest ratings ever. I will concede that for much of the 2000’s the NBA was putting out an inferior product, but that is not the case at all today. Today’s NBA is extremely entertaining and just some very good basketball.
I’m not saying that Iowa high school basketball definitely needs a shot clock. It truly is an entirely different beast that college and NBA. I agree it is fine as it is. We have great high school ball here in Iowa. I’m just not really convinced that the addition of one would really hurt the product either. We would still see teams running a wide variety of different offenses. We would still see teams running offensive sets. A shot clock will not get rid of that. We would just have a faster pace of play and more scoring opportunities. That is not a bad thing in my book. It most definitely has made the college and professional game better. A few may not think that, but the majority of people do. The fact that they have and probably will continue to lower the college shot clock speaks to that point.
Also I should say that I have watched a handful of basketball games in South Dakota where they do have a shot clock and it doesn't seem to make the games worse. Here is a good quote about how it has worked there from the head of the South Dakota athletic union, “coaches who have used it have either said it had no impact in their game or actually had a positive impact”
I do have to agree with RoundMound though that the cost of having to install the clocks may be hard for some school districts. That alone might be enough to not see the shot clock implemented anytime soon.
I’m not saying that Iowa high school basketball definitely needs a shot clock. It truly is an entirely different beast that college and NBA. I agree it is fine as it is. We have great high school ball here in Iowa. I’m just not really convinced that the addition of one would really hurt the product either. We would still see teams running a wide variety of different offenses. We would still see teams running offensive sets. A shot clock will not get rid of that. We would just have a faster pace of play and more scoring opportunities. That is not a bad thing in my book. It most definitely has made the college and professional game better. A few may not think that, but the majority of people do. The fact that they have and probably will continue to lower the college shot clock speaks to that point.
Also I should say that I have watched a handful of basketball games in South Dakota where they do have a shot clock and it doesn't seem to make the games worse. Here is a good quote about how it has worked there from the head of the South Dakota athletic union, “coaches who have used it have either said it had no impact in their game or actually had a positive impact”
I do have to agree with RoundMound though that the cost of having to install the clocks may be hard for some school districts. That alone might be enough to not see the shot clock implemented anytime soon.
1. The Shot Clock: As a coach, I'm not necessarily philosophically opposed to the shot clock, but I have yet to see any actual data/evidence/logical reasons for how it would IMPROVE the game. And, I AM opposed to enacting changes that aren't going to improve our game. The "Stall Ball" argument is basically a fallacy; Stall Ball isn't an issue. In 16 years of coaching, I have seen perhaps 5 games where a team actually deployed that strategy. Now, I routinely see teams "try" to hold for last shots for over a minute, but it's relatively rare, and the ability to run an offense without shooting or turning it over for up to a minute takes much more coaching, skill, and discipline than firing off a shot within 35 seconds.
Luke asked earlier who a shot clock would benefit. Well, it would inherently benefit teams with more natural athletic talent because possessions would increase some, and over a game, the more possessions the talent gets, the more likely to win. I don't think scoring would go up at all either. No data support that notion.
2. Holiday tourneys, like the removal of seatbelt rule, should be a no brainer. Kids in effectively every other state and across the world, get to enjoy holiday tournaments, and if Iowa schools want to partake in one, they should be able to. This paternalistic notion from the IAHSAA that kids "need" a break is bogus (especially since the Association has publicly stated this rule is to benefit AD's and administrators who want break off). Basketball, and winter sports, are the only seasons with a mandated break between competition (On that note, we need to bump the start date up a week as well. Basketball gets the least amount of contact/practice of any sport). Kids effectively start their season over once Christmas hits. There is zero (honest) logic in this rule.
Luke asked earlier who a shot clock would benefit. Well, it would inherently benefit teams with more natural athletic talent because possessions would increase some, and over a game, the more possessions the talent gets, the more likely to win. I don't think scoring would go up at all either. No data support that notion.
2. Holiday tourneys, like the removal of seatbelt rule, should be a no brainer. Kids in effectively every other state and across the world, get to enjoy holiday tournaments, and if Iowa schools want to partake in one, they should be able to. This paternalistic notion from the IAHSAA that kids "need" a break is bogus (especially since the Association has publicly stated this rule is to benefit AD's and administrators who want break off). Basketball, and winter sports, are the only seasons with a mandated break between competition (On that note, we need to bump the start date up a week as well. Basketball gets the least amount of contact/practice of any sport). Kids effectively start their season over once Christmas hits. There is zero (honest) logic in this rule.
Given the resource requirement I understand it may not be feasible, but I'd love to see a shot clock. There is nothing more boring than watching pass, look/look/look, pass, dribble/dribble/look/look/look, pass, pass, look/look/look/dribble, pass for 2 minutes without even thinking of shooting.
Well other than typing that out and reading it.
Well other than typing that out and reading it.
Maybe I'm fortunate because the games in my area don't seem slow to me, but even if they were my vote would be holiday tournaments. I've seen them for years in IL and it's a great opportunity for kids to compete and play teams they normally wouldn't play against.
In favor of holiday tournaments ... Each school could make their own decision about being involved in them .... Start practice Monday after Thanksgiving to shorten the lengthy season
Not in favor of shot clock ... Cost and finding someone to run it accurately would be two issues ...
Not in favor of shot clock ... Cost and finding someone to run it accurately would be two issues ...
"Faster" and "better" are not synonymous. Further, there's no data that a shot clock would actually impact the pace of games much. Watch a high school game and time each possession; I think you'll find the majority of shots come too quickly from most teams rather than too slowly. Possessions beyond 40 seconds are actually rare beyond end of quarter scenarios (speaking of which, I wouldn't mind trying out two halves vs. 4 quarters).
I like the shot clock idea, but agree it's not realistic for the smaller schools.
Running a "Hoosier" type of motion offense for a few minutes to get a good shot is fine with me, but to just stand out front of the key is not.....and I have seen that more than enough.
Also South Dakota high schools have it, but only for their largest school's class. I know an AD for a small school and he said there's no chance they will collectively agree to add it.
Running a "Hoosier" type of motion offense for a few minutes to get a good shot is fine with me, but to just stand out front of the key is not.....and I have seen that more than enough.
Also South Dakota high schools have it, but only for their largest school's class. I know an AD for a small school and he said there's no chance they will collectively agree to add it.
Agree with Red 87. In most games I have seen in 4A and 3A it seems the shot often goes up way too quickly. Or certainly well within thirty or forty seconds. Seems like many of the better teams usually work out of their "system" rather than try to set up a certain play, except in special situations.
Given the resource requirement I understand it may not be feasible, but I'd love to see a shot clock. There is nothing more boring than watching pass, look/look/look, pass, dribble/dribble/look/look/look, pass, pass, look/look/look/dribble, pass for 2 minutes without even thinking of shooting.
Well other than typing that out and reading it.
I can't remember the last HS game I've seen where the offense has held the ball for longer than 40 seconds in a possession (unless they get an offensive rebound). If so, it happened once in the game. This is not a problem and has absolutely no evidence to back up the need for it. Now, you could argue going to a 24 second clock, but let's not kid ourselves. You go to a 24 second clock and you'll see every team press (taking away 8 seconds) then run a 2-3 zone and force bad jump shots all game. Watching brick after airball would be more boring to me than what we have right now. High school players pale in comparison to college players in ball handling, passing and shooting. That's why press and zone defense gets less effective the higher you go in the level of ball.
Shot clock for sure. I hate it when a team is up 1 with the ball with like a minute left and they force a foul because of no shot clock. Plus, having a shot clock benefits the guys/girls who will play in college.
I really don't like the idea of holiday tournaments. They are cool in Missouri, but that's just because tournaments are cool. They could just do them the weekend before or after. Let the kids spend time with their families.
I really don't like the idea of holiday tournaments. They are cool in Missouri, but that's just because tournaments are cool. They could just do them the weekend before or after. Let the kids spend time with their families.
Similar threads
