Teams Dropping down to 8 man
- Thread starter Jayhawkin
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Bedford is playing 8man. Board voted in favor of making the switch. 62 teams is my count but I am hearing 60 is the number. My guess and only my guess, is that Rockford and Belmond-Klemme are not gonna be in 8man. Gonna be 10 Dist's of 6 or 6 Dist's of 10. 6 of 10 doesn't look to bad on the map. 4a is either gonna do 6 of 8 or 8 of 6 so it isn't totally crazy to think they could do that. Class A used to have more than 8 Dist's in the late 90's and early 00's so there is precedence. 10 of 6 means all 9 games are Dist games, that would be interesting, they would all clunt right from the get go.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Actually the intent was to allow schools to field teams with limited number of students and student safety. The state told us that if enough schools participated in that division they would sponsor a playoff. And the original cutoff was 150. I find it funny that 8 man is taking such backlash from the so called purest. And Iowa finally has a great season with a D line made up of 8 man players in high school.
They will stick to 8 districts either way in 8-man. Easier to set up playoff. What the State should do with 4A ( but won't) is set up 4 districts of 12. Play an eleven game schedule. With the top two in each district going to playoffs. This is the division that has been pampered with watered down playoffs for years now.
State is saying they want 7 districts, it will work perfectly in 1a through 3a because they know they can get exactly 56 teams. But A, 8man and 4a have to be different. Only works out for everyone to have 7 districts except 4a if there are 328 teams playing football next year. 48, 56,56,56,56, 56.
7 districts cant work unless you have 56, 60 or 63 teams though. Do the math. One dist would be unable to get 9 games. Even using week 0 they would be a game short. The odd # of district's accompanied with a number of teams that isn't 56, 60, or 63 can't work.
This is where I think the state will tell a school, hey you are on on the border, we want you to go up or go down to make it work. Are you willing to do it? This may be why they have the ability to petition up or down as well. The state has the ability to approve or deny. Easy to deny that 57th team to play 8man if it throws things off. The state just says, sorry your projection isn't solid enough, you need to stay in class A.
So I think the state with work it so they get the right number per class. If there is a class that gets the bad end of it, I think it will be class A. Then that also let's the state get 1 step closer to (4) 11 man classes and possibly (2) 8 man divisions next rotation. Maybe raise the BEDS cutoff to (125), have about 40-45 teams per 8 man division.
This is where I think the state will tell a school, hey you are on on the border, we want you to go up or go down to make it work. Are you willing to do it? This may be why they have the ability to petition up or down as well. The state has the ability to approve or deny. Easy to deny that 57th team to play 8man if it throws things off. The state just says, sorry your projection isn't solid enough, you need to stay in class A.
So I think the state with work it so they get the right number per class. If there is a class that gets the bad end of it, I think it will be class A. Then that also let's the state get 1 step closer to (4) 11 man classes and possibly (2) 8 man divisions next rotation. Maybe raise the BEDS cutoff to (125), have about 40-45 teams per 8 man division.
If 8 player is going to be the largest class, maybe they should keep it 8 districts with a 32 team playoff and start the playoffs a week earlier than the other classes, and everyone that doesn't make the playoffs plays a non-district game week 9. That would work up to 72 teams. If it goes past 72 go to 10 districts, still take 32 to the playoffs (top 3 and 2 wildcards).
Why does it matter if 8 player ends up with 80-90 teams, 1A basketball has 153 teams does it need split into 2 divisions?
Why does it matter if 8 player ends up with 80-90 teams, 1A basketball has 153 teams does it need split into 2 divisions?
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I don't think we will see 8-man go over 70 teams anytime soon. For every school that drops below 115 and joins 8-man, there is another that slides below 70 and needs to consolidate with another school.
As for making the numbers work, with IC Liberty forgoing varsity football until 2018 and with the dropping teams I've seen confirmed on this site, Class A sits at 57 and 8-man is at 63. Not saying they will, but LeMars Gehlen could drop. Their enrollment looks to be under 100 and they went 0-9 last year in A. If they, or some other team decides to drop it would make a tidy 56/64 split at the bottom.
As for making the numbers work, with IC Liberty forgoing varsity football until 2018 and with the dropping teams I've seen confirmed on this site, Class A sits at 57 and 8-man is at 63. Not saying they will, but LeMars Gehlen could drop. Their enrollment looks to be under 100 and they went 0-9 last year in A. If they, or some other team decides to drop it would make a tidy 56/64 split at the bottom.
62 Teams on this list
AGWSR, Ar-We-Va, Audubon, Bedford, Bishop-Garrigan, Boyer Valley, Belmond-Klemme, CAM, Central Elkader, Central City, Cedar Valley Christian, Charter Oak-Ute, Clarksville, Clay Central-Everly, Colo-Nesco, Coon Rapids-Bayards, Don Bosco, Dunkerton, East Mills, East Union, Easton Valley, English Valleys, Essex, Exira-EHK, Fremont Mills,
Glidden-Ralston, GTRA, Harris-Lake Park, HLV, Iowa Valley Marengo, Janesville, Kee High, Kingsley-Pierson, Lamoni, Lenox, Lone Tree, Melcher-Dallas, Meskwaki Settlement, Midland, Mormon Trail GG, Moravia, Murray, Northwood-Kensett, North Iowa , Remsen St. Marys, Riceville, River Valley, Rockford, Seymour-Moulten Udell, Sidney, Springville, Stanton
Tripoli, Tri-County, Turkey Valley,Twin Cedars, WACO, Wayne, West Bend-Mallard, West Harrison, West Central, Woodbine
BK is the only school I have heard that is not confirmed but an IHSAA director told me himself they were looking at coming down to 8man.
Who am I missing? Any other schools that have discussed, specifically SE Iowa and NC Iowa.
Old Teams
Nishnabotna: They are disolving
Guthrie Center and Adair: Casey-Combining
Grandview Christian: No football in 16-17 from what I heard
Newell-Fonda: Going up to class A
MMC and Remsen-Union: Combining or WGS
Harmony-Farmington: Combining or WGS w/ Van Buren
Missing anyone on this list?
AGWSR, Ar-We-Va, Audubon, Bedford, Bishop-Garrigan, Boyer Valley, Belmond-Klemme, CAM, Central Elkader, Central City, Cedar Valley Christian, Charter Oak-Ute, Clarksville, Clay Central-Everly, Colo-Nesco, Coon Rapids-Bayards, Don Bosco, Dunkerton, East Mills, East Union, Easton Valley, English Valleys, Essex, Exira-EHK, Fremont Mills,
Glidden-Ralston, GTRA, Harris-Lake Park, HLV, Iowa Valley Marengo, Janesville, Kee High, Kingsley-Pierson, Lamoni, Lenox, Lone Tree, Melcher-Dallas, Meskwaki Settlement, Midland, Mormon Trail GG, Moravia, Murray, Northwood-Kensett, North Iowa , Remsen St. Marys, Riceville, River Valley, Rockford, Seymour-Moulten Udell, Sidney, Springville, Stanton
Tripoli, Tri-County, Turkey Valley,Twin Cedars, WACO, Wayne, West Bend-Mallard, West Harrison, West Central, Woodbine
BK is the only school I have heard that is not confirmed but an IHSAA director told me himself they were looking at coming down to 8man.
Who am I missing? Any other schools that have discussed, specifically SE Iowa and NC Iowa.
Old Teams
Nishnabotna: They are disolving
Guthrie Center and Adair: Casey-Combining
Grandview Christian: No football in 16-17 from what I heard
Newell-Fonda: Going up to class A
MMC and Remsen-Union: Combining or WGS
Harmony-Farmington: Combining or WGS w/ Van Buren
Missing anyone on this list?
Belmond-klemme is probably going to be too big. I have their BEDs at 162 next year based on 8-9-10 enrollment.
B-K was at 156 last year so that would have to lose 41 students to drop to 8 player. I don't see that happening.
Liberty opens in 2017, but they will likely have very small junior/senior classes that first year as about 75% of current freshman/sophomores living in the Liberty attendance area will opt to finish high school at City or West.
I have also heard that but also heard the same thing about Northwood-Kensett. Each school has a BEDs of 129 and 131. NK says they are staying 8man so I am curious on the projected numbers and where the difference is.
Rockford is an example of a "swing" school that could go either way. According to my list, them and Belmond taken off would get the # to 60 schools, which is being passed around by other people who are in the know about this. Thus, 6 districts of 10 is the projected alignment by those people in the know who work with the state.
Hoping that the state releases the official list of who is playing 8 man before they release the districts in late Jan/early Feb like they do in basketball with sending out who is in what classification.
After drawing things up on a map, so many scenarios, 1 school changes everything and swings a district in a different direction. I think the 3 districts that change the least are going to be the new districts (1, 7 and 8. Dist 1 in NW Iowa can't change very much it just depends on if they want to bring NI and Garrigan in or not or do they poach from the top of what will be dist 7 or 8 (CRB, GR, etc)
That then changes the CRB/GR district, if dist 1 poaches North schools then they get pushed to the south.
The district in SW corner is a tight group with great travel distances. But if the CAM/E-EHK get poached from their north border then they get pushed into the Murray's and Lamoni's.
It will be very interesting to see what they do. Especially with only district champ being guaranteed a playoff spot, district groupings matter way more than they have at any point since 2008.
Rockford is an example of a "swing" school that could go either way. According to my list, them and Belmond taken off would get the # to 60 schools, which is being passed around by other people who are in the know about this. Thus, 6 districts of 10 is the projected alignment by those people in the know who work with the state.
Hoping that the state releases the official list of who is playing 8 man before they release the districts in late Jan/early Feb like they do in basketball with sending out who is in what classification.
After drawing things up on a map, so many scenarios, 1 school changes everything and swings a district in a different direction. I think the 3 districts that change the least are going to be the new districts (1, 7 and 8. Dist 1 in NW Iowa can't change very much it just depends on if they want to bring NI and Garrigan in or not or do they poach from the top of what will be dist 7 or 8 (CRB, GR, etc)
That then changes the CRB/GR district, if dist 1 poaches North schools then they get pushed to the south.
The district in SW corner is a tight group with great travel distances. But if the CAM/E-EHK get poached from their north border then they get pushed into the Murray's and Lamoni's.
It will be very interesting to see what they do. Especially with only district champ being guaranteed a playoff spot, district groupings matter way more than they have at any point since 2008.
I'm not at all doubting you on the 6 districts of 10 teams and ill take your word for talking to people in the know. I just dont understand how its going to work.
16 playoff spots next year would be 6 champs, 6 runnerups, and 4 wildcards i would assume? How will the state decide the 4 wildcards? It should be pretty obvious after looking at the arguments on here that nobody can even come close to agreeing on what teams go where in that 13-20somthing range.
Once again I would assume they will go by record for the 4 wildcards. What will they do when there are 8 teams with the same record? How do you narrow that down to 4 teams? There is no fair tiebreaking system you could use in a 10 game regular season with minimal common opponents.
Like i said I'm not calling you a liar, but it makes a lot more sense to have 8 districts of 7 or 8 teams unless I am missing something here.
16 playoff spots next year would be 6 champs, 6 runnerups, and 4 wildcards i would assume? How will the state decide the 4 wildcards? It should be pretty obvious after looking at the arguments on here that nobody can even come close to agreeing on what teams go where in that 13-20somthing range.
Once again I would assume they will go by record for the 4 wildcards. What will they do when there are 8 teams with the same record? How do you narrow that down to 4 teams? There is no fair tiebreaking system you could use in a 10 game regular season with minimal common opponents.
Like i said I'm not calling you a liar, but it makes a lot more sense to have 8 districts of 7 or 8 teams unless I am missing something here.
I think what they are going to do is have 8 districts and the district champ qualifies in 8 player. The next 8 would be at-large based on the point system. At least that is what I am hearing that they are going to do in the rest of the classes, but with less districts and 56 teams per class, other than 4A. I haven't heard how 4A is going to be determined for playoff qualifiers yet. Once again anything can change and you never know what the state is actually going to do until they do it.
IMO 8 districts, take 1 & 2 and every few years there will be a 3 way tie and somebody stays home.
The playoffs is to find the best team, 2nd, 3rd or 4th might not even make it to the dome or even the playoffs.
Quick glance I saw only one 3 way tie since 2011 in 8 player.
The playoffs is to find the best team, 2nd, 3rd or 4th might not even make it to the dome or even the playoffs.
Quick glance I saw only one 3 way tie since 2011 in 8 player.
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With all these talks of 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 districts I don't think their is any fool proof method of creating a better playoff system other than doing like they do in basketball and cut the season down and have everyone play in it from the start. 1 champion out of 60 whatever plus teams in the field. Everyone gets eliminated except 1 teams and leaves 0 doubt over who the champion was rather than trying to find "wildcards" and leaving question marks on potential teams that get left out.
I would prefer having 8 districts in each class with 24 qualifiers. You could let the district champ have a bye in the first round and the 2nd and 3rd place teams would play the first round. That way you are rewarded for a district championship and some quality teams don't get left out of the playoffs if they are in a tough district.
The way Iowa does it is much better than Indiana. There everyone qualifies for the playoffs and then they have a random draw using a BINGO machine to draw who plays in the first round. I watched it on television and they had 8-0 teams playing each other in the first round and teams with losing records playing each other. That is crazy because you don't get rewarded for winning.
The way Iowa does it is much better than Indiana. There everyone qualifies for the playoffs and then they have a random draw using a BINGO machine to draw who plays in the first round. I watched it on television and they had 8-0 teams playing each other in the first round and teams with losing records playing each other. That is crazy because you don't get rewarded for winning.
The process of playoff teams and picking at-large teams that has been thrown around is:
If it were 6 districts, 10 teams each, all 9 games are district games
District Champs and RunnerUps get in
At large teams decided by, current tie breaker rules:
District record
Head to head
13 point tie breaker
Coin flip
If they go 8 districts for some reason, I bet they only guarantee Dist champs and then do at-large using the same process as above for the next 8 spots. From what I have heard, the state and the IFCA both want an at large system.
If they go 7 Dist's which is the consensus if the # of teams is 56 or 63 (IMO this is the only way 7 Dist's work) then it will be Dist champs and runner ups with 2 at-large teams I believe. Also, non-Dist games won't be even because the 7th Dist won't have teams to play week 1, so week 0 will be in use again.
If it were 6 districts, 10 teams each, all 9 games are district games
District Champs and RunnerUps get in
At large teams decided by, current tie breaker rules:
District record
Head to head
13 point tie breaker
Coin flip
If they go 8 districts for some reason, I bet they only guarantee Dist champs and then do at-large using the same process as above for the next 8 spots. From what I have heard, the state and the IFCA both want an at large system.
If they go 7 Dist's which is the consensus if the # of teams is 56 or 63 (IMO this is the only way 7 Dist's work) then it will be Dist champs and runner ups with 2 at-large teams I believe. Also, non-Dist games won't be even because the 7th Dist won't have teams to play week 1, so week 0 will be in use again.
Only problem with 6 districts of 10 teams and your tie breaker rules is you essentially are letting in the #1 and #2 teams in each district again plus a few 3's. Those 3's are going to be so skewed and so will the 2's as we don't have any non-district crossover games to go on and say "this #3 in this district handled the #2 over in this district which most likely means the #3's district is tougher than the #2's hence why we should allow that #3 in over others". Just an example is all. This year would have been a prime example of how that wouldn't have worked. West Bend could have competed in any district, possibly won any district that they were in, but ended up the 3 in D2. Under your format they would have been left out completely and had MMC on the ropes twice this year.
If the state is wanting to do at-large teams they have to set it up where they have as many non-district crossover games as possible so they can get some comparison how districts stack up with each other to justify why, if they were, to let a #3 in from one district over a #2 of another or the mass public will scream favoritism or bias towards that school that got let in.
high90school,
These are not my opinions, these are what I have heard coming down from the powers that be.
My personal opinion is that we should do whatever the # of teams that are in 8man tells us, whether that is 6, 7 or 8 districts. As always there isn't going to be a solution that pleases everyone. I just hope it ends up being competitively balanced for all districts as much as possible. The # of teams dictates so much for scheduling reasons. It would be be great if nobody had any open weeks and nobody played week 0 but I doubt we get that lucky. There is always a pretty good chance a school says, yes we are playing 8 man and then in June or July tells the state they don't have enough players and won't field a team.
I just hope we get to see the official list of 8man teams before the actual districts come out.
These are not my opinions, these are what I have heard coming down from the powers that be.
My personal opinion is that we should do whatever the # of teams that are in 8man tells us, whether that is 6, 7 or 8 districts. As always there isn't going to be a solution that pleases everyone. I just hope it ends up being competitively balanced for all districts as much as possible. The # of teams dictates so much for scheduling reasons. It would be be great if nobody had any open weeks and nobody played week 0 but I doubt we get that lucky. There is always a pretty good chance a school says, yes we are playing 8 man and then in June or July tells the state they don't have enough players and won't field a team.
I just hope we get to see the official list of 8man teams before the actual districts come out.
I dont ever recall hearing many people complain about the old method of 8 districts and champ plus runnerup qualify. Thats as simple as it gets. Any ties in a district will be much easier to break because of numerous common opponents. I believe more money for the state was the only reason they went to 32 teams.
If you get third in a district but think you are better than a few runnerups, tough. I highly doubt there has ever been a district with undoubtedly the 3 best teams in the state. If you get 3rd in a district that means you are a lesser team than the two teams that finished about you and id be willing to bet at the very least 4 district champs. So that already drops you below the middle of the pack for playoff teams at best. Everyone knew the rules before the season, finish in the top 2 and you are in.
If you get third in a district but think you are better than a few runnerups, tough. I highly doubt there has ever been a district with undoubtedly the 3 best teams in the state. If you get 3rd in a district that means you are a lesser team than the two teams that finished about you and id be willing to bet at the very least 4 district champs. So that already drops you below the middle of the pack for playoff teams at best. Everyone knew the rules before the season, finish in the top 2 and you are in.
Actually the state went to four teams per district I believe after there was controversy in eastern Iowa. Three teams finished 8-1 with each team beating the other. The team that got left out of the playoffs, I think was Anamosa or Monticello I can't remember exactly which one, actually beat Dyersville Beckman who made the playoffs. Beckman then went on to finish second in the state. Therefore the team that beat them in the regular season got left out of the playoffs even though they deserved it as much as the other two teams. That is why I think 24 playoff qualifiers is best. District champ should get a bye in the first round and the 2nd and 3rd place teams play in the first round. It actually gives all good teams a chance to make the playoffs. Most of the fourth place teams have losing records anyway. That's my opinion for what it's worth.
If you want to have the district champions get in and the "wildcards" then you have to have non district games. There was actually a district that had 3 qualifiers in 2001 out of 2A. That year 9 district champs and 7 at large. The third place team in that district had actually played and beaten two playoff qualifiers in non district so they were selected. When they went to 8 districts and the top 2 this was eliminated, meaning while easier for the state, not always the best 16 got in.
If you are trying to get the best 16 teams in you might as well try and cure cancer because that would be easier. If you are getting the top 12-14 teams in each class, then you are doing pretty good.
I don't under stand why the 7th Dist wouldn't have teams to play week 1, as long as an even number of teams everyone should be able to play every week, Odd number somebody has to play week 0. It's not like all D1 non-district games are all against D2, D3 vs D4, D5 vs D6.
I think 7 districts is the way it will go, it will keep it interesting up to the final game for more teams to see who gets the wildcard.
I'd also be OK with it staying at 32 as it might be the largest class so it makes a more sense to let more teams make it. Start the playoffs a week earlier (just like they have to in most other sports than large schools) and have the non-qualifiers play a non-district game week 9.
Sorry did not know those were coming down. Thought it was an idea you thought of so my apologies. I feel though if the state is wanting to do wildcards then they need to have more of them than a few as well as give themselves as many non-district games to try and compare teams and districts across the state to better identify those teams who are most likely in the 7-2 range that should qualify for playoffs. Without non-district games you have no indicator on how good a team is outside of its own district and really their picks would be complete shots in the dark. At minimum 8 districts to have each team at least 2 crossover games.
High90school,
No harm done. The teams on that list are teams that played last year, minus the teams that are consolidating/WGS/dissolving with the addition of those schools that have publicly confirmed via Twitter, the newspaper and have had school board approval. Not including the Belmond situation which I wish someone from BK would say whether or not this is even a real thought their so I could stop bringing it up.
No harm done. The teams on that list are teams that played last year, minus the teams that are consolidating/WGS/dissolving with the addition of those schools that have publicly confirmed via Twitter, the newspaper and have had school board approval. Not including the Belmond situation which I wish someone from BK would say whether or not this is even a real thought their so I could stop bringing it up.
Guthrie Center and A-C are combining sports so I would think that would take two 8 man teams out and put them back in 11 man
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