Stun everyone IHSAA do the right thing and get a shot clock

[RoundMound1]

Shot clock to fix a few games? Naw, don't see that being worth all the time, money, learning, hiring, etc that would be required.

Most high school games do not require a shot clock. I understand what some have said regarding the end of game stalling, and that is a much better argument than simply low scores, which is usually caused by the inability to score more than slow pace of play. While I do think a shot clock will bring about a slightly more up-tempo game, I don't think it will improve the quality of play.

If you institute a shot clock I would expect most teams to press and more teams to play zone forcing bad outside shots. Not the brand of basketball I'm interested in watching personally.

Also, do not like the idea of no 5-second call. I understand it's a PITA for officials, but without it, teams will simply give the ball to the best player or two and play iso ball. Again, not the brand of basketball I'm interested in watching.

 

[CIML_Ref]

5 seconds is not a PITA. Having to depend on someone else for the shit clock would be a PITA.

 

[todd_schisler]

Would love to see a 40 second shot clock. 40 seconds is plenty of time for a team to get a shot off vs man or zone. A shot clock would reward good defense and would force teams to play an entire 32 mins vs 27 or 28 which is often the case. It would reward the well-coached and more athletic team, which is the way the game was meant to be played and also is the most enjoyable version for fans to watch.

 

[mylameusername]

Would love to see a 40 second shot clock. 40 seconds is plenty of time for a team to get a shot off vs man or zone. A shot clock would reward good defense and would force teams to play an entire 32 mins vs 27 or 28 which is often the case. It would reward the well-coached and more athletic team, which is the way the game was meant to be played and also is the most enjoyable version for fans to watch.

This.
Good points as well roundmound.
If the fear is altering the game, make the shot clock long enough, I was going to say 45, where teams could still run enough offense to overcome press or zone.

I simply want to avoid situations like WDM Valley and Windhorst at state holding the ball the entire overtime to get the last and only shot. That is not good basketball. Same with Alburnett/GVC.

 

[TheVegvisir]

This.
Good points as well roundmound.
If the fear is altering the game, make the shot clock long enough, I was going to say 45, where teams could still run enough offense to overcome press or zone.

I simply want to avoid situations like WDM Valley and Windhorst at state holding the ball the entire overtime to get the last and only shot. That is not good basketball. Same with Alburnett/GVC.

Question, in your mind what is good basketball?

 

[mylameusername]

Question, in your mind what is good basketball?

The intent of my prior post was not to define what is good or bad basketball. It may have been better stated as... personally, it was not enjoyable to witness and really detracts from the spirit of the game.

I would like a shot clock to have teams at least make attempts to score. A long enough shot clock would still allow teams to slow the game down or be deliberate, and at the same time, reward a team's good defense for holding the opposition scoreless during that time.

It would also allow teams trying to make a comeback another option instead of fouling and missed free throws.

A 40 second shot clock if fully utilized is still 8% of an entire quarter, again enough to be deliberate. 40 sec shot clock would allow a minimum of 6 possessions each quarter. I don't have a problem with low scoring games or defensive struggles. I don't think a shot clock would change that anyway.

 

[TheVegvisir]

The intent of my prior post was not to define what is good or bad basketball. It may have been better stated as... personally, it was not enjoyable to witness and really detracts from the spirit of the game.

I would like a shot clock to have teams at least make attempts to score. A long enough shot clock would still allow teams to slow the game down or be deliberate, and at the same time, reward a team's good defense for holding the opposition scoreless during that time.

It would also allow teams trying to make a comeback another option instead of fouling and missed free throws.

A 40 second shot clock if fully utilized is still 8% of an entire quarter, again enough to be deliberate. 40 sec shot clock would allow a minimum of 6 possessions each quarter. I don't have a problem with low scoring games or defensive struggles. I don't think a shot clock would change that anyway.

Understood. Thanks. Personally I can enjoy a stall game that is executed well, not the entire game, but the last minute or so of a quarter, or about anytime in the 4th quarter. Takes a great deal of discipline to run it correctly, as well as skill. Thanks for the answer.

 

[Saywhat2]

Would love to see a 40 second shot clock. 40 seconds is plenty of time for a team to get a shot off vs man or zone. A shot clock would reward good defense and would force teams to play an entire 32 mins vs 27 or 28 which is often the case. It would reward the well-coached and more athletic team, which is the way the game was meant to be played and also is the most enjoyable version for fans to watch.

Maybe. Still not in favor of a shot clock. The college game has one and hasn’t improved the game IMO. As for fan enjoyment......that’s not a goal of high school athletics. In fact....it’s not a requirement that schools allow anyone to watch. You’re a guest.

 

[Pinehawk]

...I guess? But, if nobody goes and nobody cares, then why even play?
Certainly won't help bring any money in to offset costs either.
People show up in bigger numbers, buy tickets and concessions when the teams are good and the games are fun to watch.

 

[todd_schisler]

Maybe. Still not in favor of a shot clock. The college game has one and hasn’t improved the game IMO. As for fan enjoyment......that’s not a goal of high school athletics. In fact....it’s not a requirement that schools allow anyone to watch. You’re a guest.

Are you being serious or just being sarcastic? Why do athletic directors charge fans admission? Why do they have concessions? Revenue/money is a big part of high school athletics and there is a direct correlation with the fans enjoyment of their experience. Also, you honestly believe college basketball was better without a shot clock?? Yes bring back the 4 corners offense!!

 

[BlackHawkPride1]

I'd love to see a shot clock in Iowa as I agree it would help the flow of games particularly late in quarters. It would also reward a really good defensive team, and encourage more full court pressure (which should be more exciting to watch).

The biggest reason scoring is down is the way games are officiated. I think you're seeing this at the college level as well (though ive got no numbers to back it up). As long as on ball defenders are allowed to hand check, and off ball defenders are allowed to hold, the offensive output is clearly going to be down. The state has made this a "point of emphasis" but not enforced it fully.

 

[wolverine55]

Maybe games are called differently in SE Iowa, but the last thing I want to see if refs calling more fouls. Often, at least one team is in the bonus before the first quarter is over and largely due to "ticky tack" fouls.

 

[wolverine55]

Maybe games are called differently in SE Iowa, but the last thing I want to see if refs calling more fouls. Often, at least one team is in the bonus before the first quarter is over and largely due to "ticky tack" fouls.

 

[CIML_Ref]

The biggest reason scoring is down is the way games are officiated. I think you're seeing this at the college level as well (though ive got no numbers to back it up).

This might be my favorite thing ever written on this site. It pretty much encapsulates every conversation.

 

[C-Town Card]

Two arguments I see here- "Most possessions end within 30 seconds anyway, so the only thing a shot clock would fix is stalling." Okay, so let's fix stalling.

"A shot clock would lead to bad possessions." I thought most ended within 30 seconds?

I personally would love to see a shot clock. It isn't as expensive as it once was and sharing revenue could fund a clock for most schools almost immediately. We use STUDENTS to run the clock and have a mistake maybe once a game (no loss of control, jump ball maintaining possession, etc...) No big deal. Official notices it and they reset, or more often than not, nobody notices but me because I'm the only one paying that much attention. It doesn't need be a complicated process. If there is a chance to clean up games, why not do it?

To the press / zone point- I don't see defenses switching that much. The team I follow actually plays more man because they are more aggressive with it. Just like Syracuse runs a zone, Duke runs a man, teams will do what they do to optimize the roster.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Two arguments I see here- "Most possessions end within 30 seconds anyway, so the only thing a shot clock would fix is stalling." Okay, so let's fix stalling.

"A shot clock would lead to bad possessions." I thought most ended within 30 seconds?

I personally would love to see a shot clock. It isn't as expensive as it once was and sharing revenue could fund a clock for most schools almost immediately. We use STUDENTS to run the clock and have a mistake maybe once a game (no loss of control, jump ball maintaining possession, etc...) No big deal. Official notices it and they reset, or more often than not, nobody notices but me because I'm the only one paying that much attention. It doesn't need be a complicated process. If there is a chance to clean up games, why not do it?

To the press / zone point- I don't see defenses switching that much. The team I follow actually plays more man because they are more aggressive with it. Just like Syracuse runs a zone, Duke runs a man, teams will do what they do to optimize the roster.

I say re-watch the Final Four and ask yourself why a shot clock is needed in high school.

Actually, don't ask yourself, because if you already have your mind made up that they need one then it's not going to change to the correct answer that it is not needed.........

You're welcome.

 

[C-Town Card]

I say re-watch the Final Four and ask yourself why a shot clock is needed in high school.

Actually, don't ask yourself, because if you already have your mind made up that they need one then it's not going to change to the correct answer that it is not needed.........

You're welcome.

You didn't even acknowledge the argument that was presented. The scores don't matter to me. Pace of the game needs to be changed. Anything that can reduce a stalling / drop the ball 9 times and reset offense is good to me. The use of shot clock here is a gift from the gods.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

You didn't even acknowledge the argument that was presented. The scores don't matter to me. Pace of the game needs to be changed. Anything that can reduce a stalling / drop the ball 9 times and reset offense is good to me. The use of shot clock here is a gift from the gods.

I assumed the rhetorical nature of my post would've led you to assume I wouldn't acknowledge your argument for why a shot clock is needed (it's not).

I was simply saying that if your mind is made up that a shot clock is needed..............then you should change your mind anyways, because it is not needed. And I can say that with confidence because the State won't be moving to pass the change anytime soon.

Better to be on the winning side, as they say. You all should join in.

 

[Lyoncounty]

A shot clock isnt needed for 90% of the possessions. I'll sure take one though for those 10% where it comes into play.

A few things from the NW Corner.

1. 2 or maybe 3 possession game with 3 minutes to go and most coaches pull it out and try to run the clock down
2. Under a minute in the quarter or half and teams are holding for 1 shot
3. I dont hear South Dakota schools complaining about adding it in. My sample size was small but 1 & 2 were much more limited with the shot clock.

 

[C-Town Card]

I assumed the rhetorical nature of my post would've led you to assume I wouldn't acknowledge your argument for why a shot clock is needed (it's not).

I was simply saying that if your mind is made up that a shot clock is needed..............then you should change your mind anyways, because it is not needed. And I can say that with confidence because the State won't be moving to pass the change anytime soon.

Better to be on the winning side, as they say. You all should join in.

My mind isn't made up on the matter. Rather, I see evidence presented (mainly from the anti-shot clock crowd ironically) that says it would be a good option to invest in. Luckily for me, I have no intentions of ever coaching without a shot clock in play ever again, so I'll be just fine where I'm at

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

My mind isn't made up on the matter. Rather, I see evidence presented (mainly from the anti-shot clock crowd ironically) that says it would be a good option to invest in. (Yeah, well don't listen to them. They are nothing but blast-femurs....) Luckily for me, I have no intentions of ever coaching without a shot clock in play ever again (Okay....), so I'll be just fine where I'm at (..........)

J/k.....I really don't care.

What I do care about is that everyone accepts that there won't be a shot clock for HS ball in Iowa, in any time frame the "sooner than later" crowd would like to see..........or stay triggered that there isn't one yet.

 

[C-Town Card]

J/k.....I really don't care.

What I do care about is that everyone accepts that there won't be a shot clock for HS ball in Iowa, in any time frame the "sooner than later" crowd would like to see..........or stay triggered that there isn't one yet.

I don't think anyone is "triggered" by anything. I'm just in favor of a higher tempo game that doesn't reward bad offense holding the ball.

Who doesn't love to watch this?

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

I don't think anyone is "triggered" by anything (Ohhh I disagree with that....). I'm just in favor of a higher tempo game that doesn't reward bad offense holding the ball. (A bad offense...or in your video's case, a poorly coached offensive scheme, is gonna be bad no matter what. A shot clock doesn't make a coach teach good offense. Just that the player has to be aware that he only has 30-40 seconds to shoot the ball instead of 8 minutes............)

Who doesn't love to watch this?

Btw, I also like the long, lane-camping defense both teams employ.

That is partially also the reason why the game has devolved into a 3-pt contest at all levels of play.

Of course with the NBA, the near-mid court 3 pt shot is the new "highlight dunk" of this era and is the flashy thing to do, so all the cool players are doing it, and kids see that so all the cool kids in high school and college have to do it as well.......


It drives me up a f***ing wall is what it does.