I know there is a lot of negative talk about the state tournament being at The Well along with attendance for the boys state basketball tournament dwindling in the last 10 years as well. It has been said that the best environment in tournament basketball is often found in the sub-state final games. Smaller gym with packed crowds. Would the state tournament have a better atmosphere at a place like the Knapp Center in Des Moines? What about rotating it every year between central Iowa and the Eastern side of the state? Imagine state being played at Carver Hawkeye or Hilton Colliseum...changing the venues every so often might livin things up a little bit. Personally, I have no problem with the current venue but many do like to complain about it. What does everyone think?
State Tournament Venues
- Thread starter Cheese2
- Start date
It would be neat to rotate sites. If you're going to include central and eastern Iowa then you would have to include Western Iowa as well in the rotation IMO. Logistically this could be a nightmare especially since college teams are in the heart of their season at the time of the state tournament. Would be neat, dont see it happening.
Interesting ideas, but I doubt if two western teams would want to play the finals in Waterloo, Dubuque or Davenport, and vice versa. If the championship would rotate it would have to be at an accessible venue, somewhere near the middle of the state. I still like the games at the Well.
I'm okay with that but how about we do this with a 2 game minimum. And we do this over 3 days instead of 5? Aunt Bessie and Uncle Joe don't have the coins or time to drive to Des Moines for a early week one and done, and what a disservice to the young men that bust it all year to get one bite at the apple once they are there. Heck, in some cases they are back in class the next morning. Not exactly a State experience. Just some thoughts....
Keep as is, unless you move it to Hilton or Carver-Hawkeye. There's something special about playing in the biggest venues in the state.
I think overall the Well is the best. It keeps the long line of tradition going of people who get to say "I played at Vets/WellsFargo." (Of course this is coming from someone who lives in Des Moines.
)
I wasn't a fan of the change to "Championship Friday" because I felt like the 1-A and 2-A schools got the short shrift having to play their championship games on a weekday afternoon, but I understand why they might have had to do it for financial reasons.
I think overall the Well is the best. It keeps the long line of tradition going of people who get to say "I played at Vets/WellsFargo." (Of course this is coming from someone who lives in Des Moines.
)I wasn't a fan of the change to "Championship Friday" because I felt like the 1-A and 2-A schools got the short shrift having to play their championship games on a weekday afternoon, but I understand why they might have had to do it for financial reasons.
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With all due respect the environment at Wells has become stale. Attendance is down 25,000 over the last 8 years for a reason. Wells Fargo is a hockey arena not a basketball arena. The scores are in the low 30's because it is a very difficult arena to shoot in. That's why playing at Mcleod Center or Hilton Coliseum are much more conducive to a great basketball environment and more scoring. Nebraska had 94,000 attendance
at their tourney last year while we had 52,000.00 -We are the only week long tourney in the nation. Time to get with it already!! Iowa is better than this.Our kids and coaches deserve better-just sayin'
at their tourney last year while we had 52,000.00 -We are the only week long tourney in the nation. Time to get with it already!! Iowa is better than this.Our kids and coaches deserve better-just sayin'
According to the IAHSAA there were 12,383 in attendance for the 2018 Class 3A title game, second only to the 2010 Class 4A state title game ft. Harrison Barnes and Doug McDermott at 12,547.
That was a special environment to see. Glenwood had a team the whole community really rallied around. Oskaloosa hadn't been to state in ages and their fans showed out as well. I expect good crowds for the 3A title game again...Osky and any of the other pre season top 5 teams will travel well. The smaller communities do a better job of supporting their teams than the larger schools in general.
Please check the DSM March 6th , 2016- Is it Time to tweak the boy's state basketball tournament? written by Chris Cuellar. At that time 2015 attendance at the Boys state tourney in Iowa was 56,660-Nebraska was 85,119
I believe that attendance number was for the championship session on Friday. I'm sure the 3A game was well attended, but the 12,383 was the number for all the title games on Friday. Similarly, the 2010 figures were for that session, which included the 3A game that year.
Doesn’t Nebraska have 6 classes? I’m sure that has a lot to do with their higher attendance than Iowa. Keep it in Des Moines. It’s centrally located and easy to get to.
Boys State tourney attendance: anyone see a trend here?
1993 92,404
1994 95,027
1997 93,245
2000 82,543
2001 77,059
2002 81,459
2003 76,994
2004 82,358
2005 72,622
2006 77,147
2007 68,383
2008 73,528
2009 78,782
2010 77,715
2011 70,200
2012 68,785
2013 59,373
2014 55,011
2015 57,043
2016 54,027
2017 54,764
2018 52,932
http://www.iahsaa.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/2019_BSKT-StatBook_tl-11.12.pdf
Lost 33% since 2009. Real changes are needed. Proposals have been made to Boone but falling on deaf ears. How low does attendance have to go before the assoc does something? 20 years ago, Iowa had higher state bb attendance than Wisconsin, Minnesota and Nebraska. Now, we are behind those states by a wide margin. Stunning lack of vision and leadership coming out of Boone.
1993 92,404
1994 95,027
1997 93,245
2000 82,543
2001 77,059
2002 81,459
2003 76,994
2004 82,358
2005 72,622
2006 77,147
2007 68,383
2008 73,528
2009 78,782
2010 77,715
2011 70,200
2012 68,785
2013 59,373
2014 55,011
2015 57,043
2016 54,027
2017 54,764
2018 52,932
http://www.iahsaa.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/2019_BSKT-StatBook_tl-11.12.pdf
Lost 33% since 2009. Real changes are needed. Proposals have been made to Boone but falling on deaf ears. How low does attendance have to go before the assoc does something? 20 years ago, Iowa had higher state bb attendance than Wisconsin, Minnesota and Nebraska. Now, we are behind those states by a wide margin. Stunning lack of vision and leadership coming out of Boone.
My vote:
3 games in 3 days. All in Des Moines.
Use Drake for quarterfinals and consolation games..
DM hotels/restaurant's will love it, fans will prefer it, players will like having 3 guaranteed games.
IHSAA will still find a way to ruin it.
3 games in 3 days. All in Des Moines.
Use Drake for quarterfinals and consolation games..
DM hotels/restaurant's will love it, fans will prefer it, players will like having 3 guaranteed games.
IHSAA will still find a way to ruin it.
I see what you are saying but, I think attendance is dropping in all sports. Not just attendance, but participation as well, which is even a bigger issue. I think it’s more of a cultural shift. Look around at the state tournament next year and see how many students have their faces buried in their cell phones. I don’t know what you can do to change that.
As I understand it, that's the position of the boys assoc leadership - people just aren't as interested, too many other options so there's nothing we can do about it. Just accept it.
I guess my question is - why isn't attendance dropping in Nebraska or Wisconsin or Minnesota? Don't they have phones and other options in those states?
All three of those states have:
1. Shorter tournaments (3 or 4 days)
2. Championship games on Saturday not Friday
3. State-wide tv coverage and a media-friendly assoc. because they understand that more exposure = more interest.
4. Better championship venues (Kohl Center, Target Center, Pinnacle Bank Arena). All much better basketball arenas than Wells Fargo.
5. Systems set up to get the best teams to state (i.e. the Iowa Girls Athletic Union) instead of the current geographical system. Other states actually understand that getting the best teams to state results in better games and a more exciting event.
I would argue that instead of shrugging their shoulders and giving up, why not do some work and make the event better for the kids and fans. Of course, that would take leadership and vision.
I guess my question is - why isn't attendance dropping in Nebraska or Wisconsin or Minnesota? Don't they have phones and other options in those states?
All three of those states have:
1. Shorter tournaments (3 or 4 days)
2. Championship games on Saturday not Friday
3. State-wide tv coverage and a media-friendly assoc. because they understand that more exposure = more interest.
4. Better championship venues (Kohl Center, Target Center, Pinnacle Bank Arena). All much better basketball arenas than Wells Fargo.
5. Systems set up to get the best teams to state (i.e. the Iowa Girls Athletic Union) instead of the current geographical system. Other states actually understand that getting the best teams to state results in better games and a more exciting event.
I would argue that instead of shrugging their shoulders and giving up, why not do some work and make the event better for the kids and fans. Of course, that would take leadership and vision.
I have to agree with saywhat, I think the declining attendance numbers are partly just indicative of the culture we find ourselves in. Going back to the 2019 Stat Book and some simple subtraction we can get the numbers for district attendance going back to 2000;
2000 233352
2001 211406
2002 210951
2003 216362
2004 216880
2005 208975
2006 199485
2007 191750
2008 162385
2009 200865
2010 167056
2011 168855
2012 170581
2013 161358
2014 146017
2015 151170
2016 143863
2017 144957
2018 137902
You see the same steady decline, including a 31% decrees from 2009. It is not just the state tournament people are not showing up for any more it is postseason basketball in general. Why are other states not having this problem? That is a good question I wish I had an answer to. My guess would be it is a variety of reasons, some we can replicate here some we can't. Just looking at these numbers though I have some doubts anything done to the state tournament would drastically change the current trend. I mean if people are not going to show up for local district games how are you supposed to get them to travel to state no matter when, where, or how you hold it?
I also would argue that they are not exactly just shrugging their shoulders at the problem. Changes have been made to the postseason format the past couple of years. Maybe not as major of changes as some would like, but changes none the less. Changes I for one think have had a positive effect on the state tournament experience. Seeding is much better now and Championship Friday last year was a huge success and the attendance numbers back that up. I'm not saying they do everything right, I have plenty of problems with the way the Association operates. I am also not completely opposed to further changes to the postseason, even though I love it the way it is. I am just not convinced a huge shake-up will actually solve the problem. Or maybe I am just becoming an old fogey who doesn't like change.
2000 233352
2001 211406
2002 210951
2003 216362
2004 216880
2005 208975
2006 199485
2007 191750
2008 162385
2009 200865
2010 167056
2011 168855
2012 170581
2013 161358
2014 146017
2015 151170
2016 143863
2017 144957
2018 137902
You see the same steady decline, including a 31% decrees from 2009. It is not just the state tournament people are not showing up for any more it is postseason basketball in general. Why are other states not having this problem? That is a good question I wish I had an answer to. My guess would be it is a variety of reasons, some we can replicate here some we can't. Just looking at these numbers though I have some doubts anything done to the state tournament would drastically change the current trend. I mean if people are not going to show up for local district games how are you supposed to get them to travel to state no matter when, where, or how you hold it?
I also would argue that they are not exactly just shrugging their shoulders at the problem. Changes have been made to the postseason format the past couple of years. Maybe not as major of changes as some would like, but changes none the less. Changes I for one think have had a positive effect on the state tournament experience. Seeding is much better now and Championship Friday last year was a huge success and the attendance numbers back that up. I'm not saying they do everything right, I have plenty of problems with the way the Association operates. I am also not completely opposed to further changes to the postseason, even though I love it the way it is. I am just not convinced a huge shake-up will actually solve the problem. Or maybe I am just becoming an old fogey who doesn't like change.
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I don't think it has to do with being an old fogey who doesn't like change-but numbers don't lie. Why not get a small group from around the state, empower them to try some of these ideas that other states are using with such success before it's too late and people start to write off March road trips to Des Moines for hoops.
I would agree with some of what greenway says. Especially getting statewide tv coverage. And championship games on Saturday. I haven’t looked at other states so I’ll take your word on those. I just see lack of interest at ALL games, not just postseason. As for following the girls union, idk, you’re never going to get the best teams at state. I like each region of the state being represented. No reason for someone not personally involved with a team go watch all the qualifiers coming from west of Des Moines if you live in eastern Iowa. Attendance at many athletic events is declining. Other than turning back the clock, I don’t see it changing much unfortunately. I mean if the girls Union was concerned about attendance, they would have stayed with 6 on 6. They packed the place then.
Other states are indeed having this problem. In Illinois, for example, state tournament attendance has been on a steady decline for at least a decade now. Illinois basketball was only two classes; ever since they broke it into four the attendance has shrunk every year.
Anyone know what the max attendance is for state basketball at one time? I'm expecting it's the 4A championship game?
You aint got no love for the west coast?! oops I mean west side...had snoop on my mind.
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