Sioux City football

[Hawksince73]

I asked this before and it wasn't well received but I keep wondering:
Should North and West consider a co-op football program? Over 150 points were scored against those two teams last night (9'27) and absolutely nobody, including the actual winning team, gains anything from those games. I'm prepared to be skewered again so have at it.

 

[sammysosa23]

In 2022 when there is a 4-A and 5-A, things will be better. Should the same not be said about Hoover and North? And Davenport schools? and Council Bluff schools?

 

[makelovenotwar]

Something needs to be done at both the 4A and 3A level. While I can see the problem with a 5A for the really big and/or strong 4A (Dowling) it seems like it is the least bad idea. That and perhaps merging A and 1A while moving some of 1A up to 2A etc. etc.

 

[franky1967]

Maybe on top of the 35pt Rule, they should bring back the 50pt rule as a secondary measure of keeping the game from getting way out of hand

 

[screwloose]

Maybe on top of the 35pt Rule, they should bring back the 50pt rule as a secondary measure of keeping the game from getting way out of hand

I agree with this. My wife was asking me last night, "Why are so many of these games so lopsided?" She's kinda new to football. So I explained to her about how a couple really good players can make a difference. Then about winning cultures at some places as opposed to others.

I don't like the idea of games ending at halftime or some point in the third quarter, but the morale of a team losing by 90+ does nothing for that program. In fact, I'd guess it probably buries them more.

On an editorial note, I don't know how good Des Moines Roosevelt is. Most know that Sioux City West has had problems for some time. DMR being 4-1 against what I'm assuming is some weak competition, took some liberties(assuming again) against a team they knew they could run it up against. If they did, beware of karma. They've got two or three stronger opponents who may be able to do the same to them to a slightly lesser degree.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

I agree with this. My wife was asking me last night, "Why are so many of these games so lopsided?" She's kinda new to football. So I explained to her about how a couple really good players can make a difference. Then about winning cultures at some places as opposed to others.

I don't like the idea of games ending at halftime or some point in the third quarter, but the morale of a team losing by 90+ does nothing for that program. In fact, I'd guess it probably buries them more.

On an editorial note, I don't know how good Des Moines Roosevelt is. Most know that Sioux City West has had problems for some time. DMR being 4-1 against what I'm assuming is some weak competition, took some liberties(assuming again) against a team they knew they could run it up against. If they did, beware of karma. They've got two or three stronger opponents who may be able to do the same to them to a slightly lesser degree.

Well it starts with Fort Dodge next week.

 

[franky1967]

I agree with this. My wife was asking me last night, "Why are so many of these games so lopsided?" She's kinda new to football. So I explained to her about how a couple really good players can make a difference. Then about winning cultures at some places as opposed to others.

I don't like the idea of games ending at halftime or some point in the third quarter, but the morale of a team losing by 90+ does nothing for that program. In fact, I'd guess it probably buries them more.

On an editorial note, I don't know how good Des Moines Roosevelt is. Most know that Sioux City West has had problems for some time. DMR being 4-1 against what I'm assuming is some weak competition, took some liberties(assuming again) against a team they knew they could run it up against. If they did, beware of karma. They've got two or three stronger opponents who may be able to do the same to them to a slightly lesser degree.

The only other option is to give the coaches
Or the referees the option to just call the came when they have seen enough. I'm thinking if it's 95-0 safety is then a concern.

Since I haven't seen the stats of the game it's hard to tell how it could get so far out of hand.

I think as a coach and I'm starting to get so far ahead I or way behind, I would like the ability to confer with the other coach and referees to just stop the game.

In 1999 CF was beating Prairie 40-7 in the 2nd QTR when the game was delayed due to be lightening.

After it was safe to be play again, a mutual decision was made to call the game not playing a down in the 3rd QTR.

So this must be an option, I don't know for sure

 

[franky1967]

I agree with this. My wife was asking me last night, "Why are so many of these games so lopsided?" She's kinda new to football. So I explained to her about how a couple really good players can make a difference. Then about winning cultures at some places as opposed to others.

I don't like the idea of games ending at halftime or some point in the third quarter, but the morale of a team losing by 90+ does nothing for that program. In fact, I'd guess it probably buries them more.

On an editorial note, I don't know how good Des Moines Roosevelt is. Most know that Sioux City West has had problems for some time. DMR being 4-1 against what I'm assuming is some weak competition, took some liberties(assuming again) against a team they knew they could run it up against. If they did, beware of karma. They've got two or three stronger opponents who may be able to do the same to them to a slightly lesser degree.

Quick Stats shows DM Roosevelt had less than 400yds of offense, scored 10 offensive TD. 2pass/ 8 Rush. Returned a Int for a TD and 2 Fumbles for Touchdowns..

SC West had no stats listed, somehow this game appears to have been played on SC West side of the 50 to or the majority of the game.

I would like to see the punting stats from SC West as somehow they must have had an issue. Having a continuous clock had no bearing on the score of the game.

At any rate you are correct,

 

[CFTigers68]

I have a really hard time with the 50-point rule because some coaches won’t pull starters until well out of hand and then, welp, game’s over....

I want to see kids who work hard everyday and get little to no playing time get in there. Yes, it can get ugly, but the kids get to play. I suppose I might be in the minority here, but you know, it is high school football.

 

[franky1967]

I have a really hard time with the 50-point rule because some coaches won’t pull starters until well out of hand and then, welp, game’s over....

I want to see kids who work hard everyday and get little to no playing time get in there. Yes, it can get ugly, but the kids get to play. I suppose I might be in the minority here, but you know, it is high school football.

There is nothing in the stats so far that show that it was really intentionally running up the score, although 95 points being scored with a running clock is unheard of.

I see nothing wrong with keeping the 35pt rule and adding the 50pt rule or a 60pt rule.
I have to agree with Screwloose, what do you really gain watching dejected players that walk off the field because they are not physically capable of stopping a superior team. They probably worked just as hard as the other team.

If I'm a coach up by that many, I'm not going to feel good walking away with a victory like that

 

[screwloose]

It's a tricky situation. I totally get the point about the winning team's players getting an opportunity also. And you can't ask them to come in and take a knee or fall down intentionally on a break away run from 50-60 yards out. In many ways, the team losing would have to feel just as bad thinking they were being given mercy.

It's really a no win spot for anyone involved; the winner, the loser, the fans, the officials, the IHSAA. The problem with football is that one great athlete can really skew things. If you have one side where the 6-8 best players on the field are all on one side...you get even uglier results, like this last weekend. Unfortunately, you can't have a draft in high school football so parity is rarely the rule. It's nearly impossible to divvy up teams by enrollment or by tradition since players change every couple years and that one supreme athlete can swing everything.

 

[ISUChip]

There is nothing in the stats so far that show that it was really intentionally running up the score, although 95 points being scored with a running clock is unheard of.

In 11-man, the running clock doesn't start until the 2nd half, no matter how lopsided things get in Q1 or Q2.

From what I've read, Roosevelt led 79-0 at halftime -- so the running clock would not have been in effect yet.

 

[Cc5db]

I agree with this. My wife was asking me last night, "Why are so many of these games so lopsided?" She's kinda new to football. So I explained to her about how a couple really good players can make a difference. Then about winning cultures at some places as opposed to others.

I don't like the idea of games ending at halftime or some point in the third quarter, but the morale of a team losing by 90+ does nothing for that program. In fact, I'd guess it probably buries them more.

On an editorial note, I don't know how good Des Moines Roosevelt is. Most know that Sioux City West has had problems for some time. DMR being 4-1 against what I'm assuming is some weak competition, took some liberties(assuming again) against a team they knew they could run it up against. If they did, beware of karma. They've got two or three stronger opponents who may be able to do the same to them to a slightly lesser degree.

this is scary considering DM Roosevelt is probably the 9th or 10th best team in the CIML this year

 

[KidSilverhair]

In 1999 CF was beating Prairie 40-7 in the 2nd QTR when the game was delayed due to be lightening.

After it was safe to be play again, a mutual decision was made to call the game not playing a down in the 3rd QTR.

So this must be an option, I don't know for sure

It’s my understanding that both coaches can agree to end a game and consider it complete at any time. The only instances I’ve heard of are weather-related, like the one you’re talking about. One would think ending a game at halftime when it’s 79-0 would be merciful to both sides, but obviously I wasn’t there and I have no idea what was in the minds of the coaches there.

I played on the losing side of a 70-some point JV loss when I was a freshman. I can tell you by the fourth quarter we just wanted it to be over - nobody was getting anything productive out of the game, on either side.

 

[ISUChip]

I played on the losing side of a 70-some point JV loss when I was a freshman. I can tell you by the fourth quarter we just wanted it to be over - nobody was getting anything productive out of the game, on either side.

And about the only thing more embarrassing than being on the wrong end of a blowout is the winning team taking a knee in "regular" offensive situations, as if the only way for them to avoid scoring is to stop themselves.

 

[JansenMustGo]

Sioux City football starts and stops with Heelan. The public schools of North and West could not beat many JV teams. Sioux City East is up and down. West and North should shutdown programs tomorrow for the sake of all involved.

 

[Reasoned]

Sioux City football starts and stops with Heelan. The public schools of North and West could not beat many JV teams. Sioux City East is up and down. West and North should shutdown programs tomorrow for the sake of all involved.

Just curious, knowing nothing of the SC schools but is it the case Heelan just gets a majority of the FB talent in the city?

 

[franky1967]

In 11-man, the running clock doesn't start until the 2nd half, no matter how lopsided things get in Q1 or Q2.

From what I've read, Roosevelt led 79-0 at halftime -- so the running clock would not have been in effect yet.

Well they scored 18-21pts in defense, I don't know when those points were scored. However Only 16pts scored after that still doesnt

It’s my understanding that both coaches can agree to end a game and consider it complete at any time. The only instances I’ve heard of are weather-related, like the one you’re talking about. One would think ending a game at halftime when it’s 79-0 would be merciful to both sides, but obviously I wasn’t there and I have no idea what was in the minds of the coaches there.

I played on the losing side of a 70-some point JV loss when I was a freshman. I can tell you by the fourth quarter we just wanted it to be over - nobody was getting anything productive out of the game, on either side.

I'm with you and in this case the 50pt rule would have ended it in the 3rd qtr. I still think a combination of 35pt rule and the old 50pt rule is the way to go, although it only would have kept the Score 79-0.

However I think the losing team would almost be shellshocked

 

[SpinningBird]

According to BC Moore, the worst might be yet to come...

Sioux City West is projected to lose its last 3 games by 85, 81, and 78 points to Southeast Polk, Fort Dodge, and Ankeny Centennial.

Sioux City North is projected to lose its last 2 games by 80 and 90 points to Ankeny and Dowling.

Seems a stretch to think anything good is going to come out of any of those games.

 

[areukiddingme]

Sioux City football starts and stops with Heelan. The public schools of North and West could not beat many JV teams. Sioux City East is up and down. West and North should shutdown programs tomorrow for the sake of all involved.

if SC football starts and stops with Heelan, then might as well cancel football for all. 1-4 isnt exactly any more relevant than 1-4 Sc north. neither team in playoff mix.

 

[NWIAorBUST]

According to BC Moore, the worst might be yet to come...

Sioux City West is projected to lose its last 3 games by 85, 81, and 78 points to Southeast Polk, Fort Dodge, and Ankeny Centennial.

Sioux City North is projected to lose its last 2 games by 80 and 90 points to Ankeny and Dowling.

Seems a stretch to think anything good is going to come out of any of those games.

Has to be an enjoyable trek of 2:45-3:30 hours for both parties. SC heading that way to be demolished or any of the DSM metro schools to waste their time.

 

[JansenMustGo]

if SC football starts and stops with Heelan, then might as well cancel football for all. 1-4 isnt exactly any more relevant than 1-4 Sc north. neither team in playoff mix.

True 1-4 this season. 37 playoff appearances. 57 playoff wins. 4 State titles. 9 runner-up finishes. Sioux City football starts and stops with Heelan.

To compare Sioux City North to Heelan not close this year and historically not even a conversation.

 

[mthawkeyes]

Has to be an enjoyable trek of 2:45-3:30 hours for both parties. SC heading that way to be demolished or any of the DSM metro schools to waste their time.

Centennial gets to do it on a Thursday night. But besides the travel, it's a good opportunity to be as healthy as possible going into the playoffs.

 

[Kraftwerk]

What the hell are you guys smoking? Apart from Heelan, the MRAC is the toughest conference in Iowa.

Go tell any HS player in the state that from now on his team has play in MRAC. His eyes will become wide open, filed with fear and devastation. That’s him fearing for his life

 

[paxregis]

What the hell are you guys smoking? Apart from Heelan, the MRAC is the toughest conference in Iowa.

Go tell any HS player in the state that from now on his team has play in MRAC. His eyes will become wide open, filed with fear and devastation. That’s him fearing for his life

Oh, Krafty, still huffing paint I see

 

[ronsss]

I asked this before and it wasn't well received but I keep wondering:
Should North and West consider a co-op football program? Over 150 points were scored against those two teams last night (9'27) and absolutely nobody, including the actual winning team, gains anything from those games. I'm prepared to be skewered again so have at it.

north has 1100 kids, west 900+.....seems like maybe poor coaching, not sure what the problem is...should be able to field a decent team with that many kids

 

[franky1967]

north has 1100 kids, west 900+.....seems like maybe poor coaching, not sure what the problem is...should be able to field a decent team with that many kids

You are probably correct, maybe coaching. However then it's been coaching for too many long years

 

[Kraftwerk]

north has 1100 kids, west 900+.....seems like maybe poor coaching, not sure what the problem is...should be able to field a decent team with that many kids

You can’t go by the number of students, at least at the 3A/4A. It is irrelevant. 3A has better teams outside REALLY big 4A schools. The thing nobody realizes about West, North, and to a lesser extent East is that they have a huge Hispanic/immigration population and typically Hispanics don’t play football. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen some really good Hispanic players in both basketball and football at the high school level in Sioux City, but demographics is the reason West and North are so bad. Some it definitely is coaching. I drove by West High / Middle last week when school had got out. I counted maybe 1/15 kids were white. This was probably middle school. It’d be great to see some of those kids turn to football and play at the varsity level someday. You need competition at practice to do well in games.

 

[Kraftwerk]

I think a few years ago the Sioux City Community School District stated 40% of middle school students in the entire district are bilingual. Sioux City median income is lowest in Iowa, 22K average. South Sioux City has an even higher % of immigrants in their population. Dakota Valley (South Dakota) and Sgt. Bluff are really good...a lot of the financially that are well-off moves there. This has has hurt Heelan too. Nowhere near the teams they once were.

 

[Kraftwerk]

I also do not think combining programs is a legitimate idea unless the state insists. If you combine West and North, East, TJ, AL, and new MRAC member LeMars are at a disadvantage. If SC schools combine what would stop the Council Bluffs schools, or the entire state from doing the same? Shouldn’t the issue be addressed before resorting to this? What do you call the team? I’m not sure if LeMars is expecting to move to 4A in football or not but last year LeMars and North played down to the final seconds. LeMars whooped them 50-0 this year. Last year West was competitive in both games against East and Heelan, and defeated North. Last year, a West-North combined team would’ve been by far the best in the MRAC with good coaching. If you added all three they would be good.

 

[sammysosa23]

Sioux City School district for the first time 2018 was a minority majority school district. Over 50% of all enrolled students were of non-Caucasian decent.

 

[Reasoned]

How’s the soccer teams?

 

[Hawksince73]

I also do not think combining programs is a legitimate idea unless the state insists. If you combine West and North, East, TJ, AL, and new MRAC member LeMars are at a disadvantage. If SC schools combine what would stop the Council Bluffs schools, or the entire state from doing the same? Shouldn’t the issue be addressed before resorting to this? What do you call the team? I’m not sure if LeMars is expecting to move to 4A in football or not but last year LeMars and North played down to the final seconds. LeMars whooped them 50-0 this year. Last year West was competitive in both games against East and Heelan, and defeated North. Last year, a West-North combined team would’ve been by far the best in the MRAC with good coaching. If you added all three they would be good.

Call it Metro like they do with the N/W merged swim teams.
Obviously, it would need to be a very special case for the state to allow a merger but they've been bad for so long, what's it hurt to ask? Even though it wont be approved, nobody came forth with a true and even semi formal demo-based system until Sabers did it this year. Never know until you try.

 

[Kraftwerk]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/siouxc...dc7f716e-0b0f-5c8f-b80e-988f90793107.amp.html

 

[franky1967]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/siouxc...dc7f716e-0b0f-5c8f-b80e-988f90793107.amp.html

That was a good Article, not sure how they would really do it. The 1st thing that comes to mind is expand the playoffs back to 32 teams or 20-24 teams with a 1st round bye.

When you have almost the same teams making the playoffs those are 1-4 extra games per year which equals 1-4 weeks of extra practice.

You ar seeing low football numbers I think because who wants to go out for football more so for a team that rarely makes the playoffs? If you can get a team who can make the playoffs a couple yrs Ina row, then you now have a building block.

I can see the issue for the Sioux City Schools but not for the Cedar Rapids schools. With the exception of Xavier, you have 4 Cedar Rapids Schools that are competing. That's really hard to have 4 winning teams each year.

The fact that they don't go far into the playoffs I don't think is true. I've seen alot of good Cedar Rapids teams get beat when they should have won, most the time the coaching is the difference.

I don't know what the solution for Sioux City is other to expand the playoffs before they restructure the classes.

For Cedar Rapids concern and maybe Iowa City Schools as well, expand the playoffs go back to 8/8 or 16/16 Split.

Trust me this is far less painful then restructure all the classes

 

[franky1967]

If they do do this somehow, I wonder how they will do 8man football

 

[Kraftwerk]

Even an extra game, like a bowl game, would be something positive. The 2 lowest ranked teams play, then the next 2, then the next...all the way up until the play off teams. Could have the games at a neutral site and create match ups you never get to see like Davenport schools playing somebody from the MRAC for example. Just a thought

 

[franky1967]

Even an extra game, like a bowl game, would be something positive. The 2 lowest ranked teams play, then the next 2, then the next...all the way up until the play off teams. Could have the games at a neutral site and create match ups you never get to see like Davenport schools playing somebody from the MRAC for example. Just a thought

Actually the system now has created matchup I thought I would never see. If they can have some consistent year in and out with the system and produce those matchups.

I'm sure the Western Side of the State is tired of going through Dowling or Valley. The only way you may get around that is to follow a true RPI Playoff formatting

 

[Hawkfreak2k15]

True 1-4 this season. 37 playoff appearances. 57 playoff wins. 4 State titles. 9 runner-up finishes. Sioux City football starts and stops with Heelan.

To compare Sioux City North to Heelan not close this year and historically not even a conversation.

Sioux City football USED to start and stop with Heelan. Heelan is terrible now too and I don't see it getting any better for them.

 

[JansenMustGo]

Sioux City football USED to start and stop with Heelan. Heelan is terrible now too and I don't see it getting any better for them.

It must be fun to just say things with no actual facts. Heelan will have first losing season in over 30 years and has been a powerhouse making the playoffs year after year. Sioux City North and Sioux City West would both lose to Heelan (West did) by 50 points or more. To say Heelan having one down year they are no longer good is your hope not reality. Understand the difference.