With the McCraffery incident that just happened, what is acceptable to say to a terrible ref? In my opinion there are some terrible refs (especially in central Iowa area). When a ref is blatantly biased against one team, is it wrong to call them out on it? Also, can anyone share their experience with a bad ref? Is it wrong to post their names online? How far can you go to call out an official? I think back to the NFL season with the Saints no call and those officials should never enter the city of New Orleans again if they want to have a long and happy life. I believe that NFL is different that High School sports, but is it fair that a official can determine the outcome of games or try to effect the outcome of a game without having to answer for it?
Refs...What Can You Say To Them???
- Thread starter Hawk2015
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What baffles me is, the quality of reffing seems to go down the farther along in the tournament. The officials I've seen in the early rounds were all pretty darn good, fair and on top of things. You get to the substate and sometimes state levels and the reffing can become very questionable and suspect.
Couldn't agree more. I was at one substate game that 2 of the officials could barely get up and down the floor, let alone keep up with the pace of play. Maybe a physical fitness test (along with an eye test) should be required to be an official. The other substate game I went to the officials were clearly favoring one team over the other and I was not a fan or rooting for either team.
Former high school varsity and state tourney official here, now retired to the bleachers to enjoy the game from a different vantage point. I still keep in contact with a lot of the guys who do games in Central Iowa and attend a lot of games. 2 things I'd address here:
"What can you say to them?"
As a coach? It depends. Are you asking valid questions? You can say as much as you want. Are you being a jerk? You're not going to get far. Are you making personal comments toward me (you're terrible instead of that's terrible)? That's an automatic T. Are you cussing at me? Automatic T. Are you commenting EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. down the floor? You'll likely get a book warning and a T before too long. If a coach ever chased me down after the game, let's just say that D1 official showed a heck of a lot more restraint than I would have. At the very least, I would've told him that my one call he didn't agree with wasn't the reason for a 20 point loss.
As a fan? You can say whatever you want as long as you're not being vulgar or making overly personal comments toward me or game participants. If you cross that line, you better hope the game is on the radio because you'll be enjoying it from the parking lot. You never would've gotten my smart alec response that I was thinking in my head that would make you look like an idiot while you're yelling at me during a game but I am 100% sure you DON'T know the rule that you're screaming about (i.e. he wasn't set, over the back, 3 seconds, etc.).
Re: officials at the substate/state level-
Officials are evaluated 5-6 times/year if they're any good and are being looked at for tourney games. Not everyone gets a tournament game, and it's an honor to be asked to officiate even a first round district game. One bad evaluation can stop you from getting any games in the tourney, so these guys are the best that we've got. Guys are doing the best they can to get in a good position and make the right call. They don't care who wins/loses. I would also add that if you have video examples of plays where you think a guy was wrong, please feel free to post them and cite the rule reference that you believe they incorrectly applied. 9 times out of 10, you don't know the rule that you think was broken as a fan. Just because Jay Bilas says it's a rule doesn't mean that it is (hint: he and most announcers know the basics and very few nuances) and NBA/College/High School all have different rule sets. I can think of a few guys that maybe don't get up and down the court as well, but I can guarantee you that they call a better game and manage situations better than a lot of newer guys. Trust me, you'd much rather have them on your games. At $100 a night for a 6-7 hour commitment, we're probably losing guys to college who would rather get paid $300-500 for doing one game if they're not going to see their families anyway. It is a big commitment to do a night of varsity high school ball and at the end of the day, these guys are husbands, dads, and guys who enjoy their nights off. Most guys leave work/their house at 4-4:30 and don't get home until at least 11 most nights. Our REALLY good guys are limited in number, and in Central Iowa, I promise you that you are getting the best of the best night in and night out, whether you think so or not.
I'm not sure if you've all heard, but there is quite the officials' shortage in Iowa. A friend of mine told me that they were assigning some small school games 2 man crews, that's how bad it is right now. You can take what I'm about to say however you want, but if you think you can do a better job, you can go to www.iahsaa.org, click the officials' tab, and you can take the test. Once you take the test and pay your money to get certified, post on here and I'm happy to point you where to start getting games to work your way up to varsity. Until then, I would caution you against whining and moaning about officials.
"What can you say to them?"
As a coach? It depends. Are you asking valid questions? You can say as much as you want. Are you being a jerk? You're not going to get far. Are you making personal comments toward me (you're terrible instead of that's terrible)? That's an automatic T. Are you cussing at me? Automatic T. Are you commenting EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. down the floor? You'll likely get a book warning and a T before too long. If a coach ever chased me down after the game, let's just say that D1 official showed a heck of a lot more restraint than I would have. At the very least, I would've told him that my one call he didn't agree with wasn't the reason for a 20 point loss.
As a fan? You can say whatever you want as long as you're not being vulgar or making overly personal comments toward me or game participants. If you cross that line, you better hope the game is on the radio because you'll be enjoying it from the parking lot. You never would've gotten my smart alec response that I was thinking in my head that would make you look like an idiot while you're yelling at me during a game but I am 100% sure you DON'T know the rule that you're screaming about (i.e. he wasn't set, over the back, 3 seconds, etc.).
Re: officials at the substate/state level-
Officials are evaluated 5-6 times/year if they're any good and are being looked at for tourney games. Not everyone gets a tournament game, and it's an honor to be asked to officiate even a first round district game. One bad evaluation can stop you from getting any games in the tourney, so these guys are the best that we've got. Guys are doing the best they can to get in a good position and make the right call. They don't care who wins/loses. I would also add that if you have video examples of plays where you think a guy was wrong, please feel free to post them and cite the rule reference that you believe they incorrectly applied. 9 times out of 10, you don't know the rule that you think was broken as a fan. Just because Jay Bilas says it's a rule doesn't mean that it is (hint: he and most announcers know the basics and very few nuances) and NBA/College/High School all have different rule sets. I can think of a few guys that maybe don't get up and down the court as well, but I can guarantee you that they call a better game and manage situations better than a lot of newer guys. Trust me, you'd much rather have them on your games. At $100 a night for a 6-7 hour commitment, we're probably losing guys to college who would rather get paid $300-500 for doing one game if they're not going to see their families anyway. It is a big commitment to do a night of varsity high school ball and at the end of the day, these guys are husbands, dads, and guys who enjoy their nights off. Most guys leave work/their house at 4-4:30 and don't get home until at least 11 most nights. Our REALLY good guys are limited in number, and in Central Iowa, I promise you that you are getting the best of the best night in and night out, whether you think so or not.
I'm not sure if you've all heard, but there is quite the officials' shortage in Iowa. A friend of mine told me that they were assigning some small school games 2 man crews, that's how bad it is right now. You can take what I'm about to say however you want, but if you think you can do a better job, you can go to www.iahsaa.org, click the officials' tab, and you can take the test. Once you take the test and pay your money to get certified, post on here and I'm happy to point you where to start getting games to work your way up to varsity. Until then, I would caution you against whining and moaning about officials.
Thanks for sharing. I love your passion. But I do think that there are officials out there that don't take as much pride in calling a fair game as you do and let their biases and feelings affect their calls. What do you think about officials that are out of shape and do not make an effort to keep up with the play? This week at a substate game I saw an official that made no effort to get in position, he was lazy and more concerned about how his hair looked than calling the game. As he "ran" down the floor he would be looking at his feet instead of what was going on on the court. Is there anyway to get rid of these guys that should not be out there? I would suggest increasing the pay for these officials to attract better quality. What's your thoughts CIMLRef?
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. In every game I've ever done, probably well over 2000 in my life, we are the 3 (or 2 in my earlier days) guys in the entire gym that do not care who wins. As a biased observer, fans of both teams often think we're out there working against them. I have never worked with anyone who went into a game trying to change the outcome of that game. Maybe that's changed in the few years since I retired, but if you use your critical thinking and really put yourself in their shoes, it makes no sense that they'd care who wins the game. Assignors work with guys to make sure they aren't put on games where they might have a conflict of interest.
I would love to see every guy out there look like Ed Hochuli but that's just not realistic. I think there is also a difference between effort and being out of shape. Guys that get substate games are giving you their full effort, I promise. If their ability to get to a place isn't as great as a younger guy, that may be the case, but you're getting their full effort. There are things that fans might not understand that years of calling games and going to camps every summer will teach guys. Things like getting a good angle on a fast break play, rather than sprinting to stay ahead of it. Things like taking your time on a whistle (the old saying is it's better to be late and right than anticipate). Things like taking your time after a foul to make sure things don't escalate rather than sprinting to the table to get a foul reported. There are little things that officials and state observers notice that these guys doing sub state and state level games do that make them better than others.
Yes, there is a way to get rid of guys who shouldn't be out there. The best thing you can do is find clips of the games and send them in to the state association administrators on both sides. I won't post their information but it's pretty easy to find if you really have that much interest in doing it. If you think they booted a rule, find the rule reference in the NFHS rulebook, and send the clip in. If you think they're not hustling, clip it and send it in. I know if I were still calling games and someone told me I had a clip sent in, I'd want to see it to learn from it at the very least. If I were an administrator and guys were constantly out of position, I'd sure want to know.
Guys get post season consideration based on coach recommendations, so even if a guy can't get to where he needs to be or you don't think he got the play right, the coaches are the ones who have the most power on post season assignments (as backward as that may seem). It takes somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-15 coach recommendations to get to the state tournament on a YEARLY basis so those guys on the tourney games are recommended by coaches each year.
But one thing to keep in mind is the game looks a lot different from the floor than from the stands. Sometimes a player cuts in front of you as an official at the very last second and you just don't see something, and the worst thing you can do is guess. We know there was probably something there, but if a guy doesn't see it, they aren't going to call it. I had a lot of plays where I was behind a guy or had someone in my way and heard a slap and knew it was probably a foul but you just can't make the call without being 100%. Sometimes the ball or offense moves quickly and guys can't get to a good spot to see what you saw. Sometimes you think you saw something from the stands that they had a better angle on. As I mentioned earlier, maybe you don't know the rule as well as you think you do. There's a great article that I came across a few years back that I'll try to find about the 10 most misunderstood rules in basketball, I'll post it here if people are interested. I showed it to my son and he said 7-8 of them made him feel like an idiot because it was things he always complained about and the officials were actually getting it right.
There are a few things to consider here. First of all, I agree with you that they should be paid more. In the metro, arguably the toughest conference to officiate in the state of Iowa, I believe it's $115 for a double header. On the east side of the state, they only do one game and make $85 (correct me if I'm wrong on that number, that is what I've heard from guys that work there). I think that is a much better deal for both teams and officials. I'd rather have a fresh official coming in to do one game if I'm a boys coach than a guy who just did a nut cutter in the girls' game and has given a lot physically and mentally already. I attended a Waukee-Valley girls' game on a Saturday this season that was just as up-and-down as any 4A boys game. Now tell me why a guy would want to go do a CIML game and deal with poorly behaving coaches, fans, and players (and trust me, it IS much worse in the metro league) for $10-15 more than they can make going and doing an easy 1A game? I think guys can get burnt out quickly and increasing the pay would help offset that burnout.
When I retired a few years back, nearly every official in the central Iowa area was attending at least one camp. That's $150-$300 out of their own pocket and two-three days they spend to go try to get better and learn. As I mentioned earlier, these guys are the cream of the crop at the high school level. There's a reason that a lot of the guys you see in the CIML and surrounding conferences are the same guys you'll see in the girls' and boys' state tourney. They want to be good and they do what it takes to be a good high school official.
The other element to this that I think is a positive is that at that price, you're definitely not getting guys doing it for the money. Guys are out there because they want to be there, they want to do the best job they can, and they enjoy it. What makes it not enjoyable is coaches accusing us of cheating, fans pissing and moaning about us trying to "screw them," and athletes acting like idiots. When you go officiate, you're not doing it to get paid--although it is a nice bonus to doing something that's enjoyable 95% of the time.
I also think you lose a lot of guys before they ever get a chance to move up because parents and coaches act like idiots at AAU/lower level games and that makes it not much fun. You're also making $20-$25 a game to do those games, and that's just not worth getting yelled at and officiating bad basketball for a lot of guys who have families and would rather just spend time with families. It is also hard to know how to start doing varsity if you don't know the right people who point you to where you need to go to do that so people think it's hard to get varsity games and we lose good officials. It's not hard to GET varsity games if you've put in a few years. It's hard to KEEP GETTING varsity games if you continually do a poor job.
At the end of the day, they're people like you and me. They go out there, do their best and try to manage the game and situations, and get home to get back to their lives as workers, brothers, husbands, and guys who like to crack a good dad joke. I guarantee you every single varsity official in Central Iowa would teach you a lot about the rule book that you never knew. Sometimes people need to step back and think about what they say before they start bashing officials, and it's a big pet peeve of mine when people don't consider things from that angle.
Good points. I don’t see a lot of games outside Sioux City but the refs for the 4A Substate final were painful to watch. Wasn’t bias against teams but rather certain players. I wouldn’t know what to do out there if you gave me stripes and whistle so I really don’t find it necessary to scream at them or make their job harder. No matter what you call there’s always gonna be someone unhappy..
I thought the refs were pretty fair and decent last year in Des Moines.
I thought the refs were pretty fair and decent last year in Des Moines.
Time to go back to two man crews, the third doesn't help much anyway, nothing noticable. Seems there is always one guy in the crew that doesn't blow the whistle and just out there.
The complaint,or defense, to all these bad refs, is no one wants to ref because they catch too much crap, so now there are not enough of them. So go back to two a game. That would help the so called shortage since more are available for other games.
A game without a shot clock doesn't need three officials.
The complaint,or defense, to all these bad refs, is no one wants to ref because they catch too much crap, so now there are not enough of them. So go back to two a game. That would help the so called shortage since more are available for other games.
A game without a shot clock doesn't need three officials.
Btw, CIML Ref made mention of this but I thought it was funny nonetheless.
Color commentator Steven Bardo said after Connor McCaffrey was called for the foul that led to his T........."Any time you make contact with a ball handler, it's an automatic foul"
Next trip down the floor, Jordan Bohannon is dribbling with the basketball while an Ohio State player is holding his arm in Bohannon's gut the whole time he dribbles.......
That looks like contact to me, Mr. Bardo.
Lol....(and yes I know not all contact is the same and that his interpretation was very generalized)
Also, while he didn't have the ball, Joe Weiskamp is visibly grabbed with two hands while trying to make a curl cut opposite of Bohannon.
Now these two examples aren't why fans are upset and Fran McCaffrey yelled at a ref after the game, which was still the wrong thing to do..........they're upset because these are only the latest examples, in a myriad of examples, of calls and non-calls like this that have fans scratching their heads as to the inconsistency that officials working Big Ten Conference games have displayed this year.
It's the old adage of "just when you think you know something...."
There is a disconnect between the viewers and the coaches/players....and the officials....on the interpretation of what constitutes as a foul........and no one wants to step in and set the record straight (as if nobody can).
They'd rather say "Well if you think you can do better, you come and try it".......But see, that doesn't solve anything, and that's not answering our questions. Yeah, great get more people to become refs (we need them) and learn the rules so that we hopefully can solve problems with interpreting the rules in the future..........but what about right now?
Color commentator Steven Bardo said after Connor McCaffrey was called for the foul that led to his T........."Any time you make contact with a ball handler, it's an automatic foul"
Next trip down the floor, Jordan Bohannon is dribbling with the basketball while an Ohio State player is holding his arm in Bohannon's gut the whole time he dribbles.......
That looks like contact to me, Mr. Bardo.
Lol....(and yes I know not all contact is the same and that his interpretation was very generalized)Also, while he didn't have the ball, Joe Weiskamp is visibly grabbed with two hands while trying to make a curl cut opposite of Bohannon.
Now these two examples aren't why fans are upset and Fran McCaffrey yelled at a ref after the game, which was still the wrong thing to do..........they're upset because these are only the latest examples, in a myriad of examples, of calls and non-calls like this that have fans scratching their heads as to the inconsistency that officials working Big Ten Conference games have displayed this year.
It's the old adage of "just when you think you know something...."
There is a disconnect between the viewers and the coaches/players....and the officials....on the interpretation of what constitutes as a foul........and no one wants to step in and set the record straight (as if nobody can).
They'd rather say "Well if you think you can do better, you come and try it".......But see, that doesn't solve anything, and that's not answering our questions. Yeah, great get more people to become refs (we need them) and learn the rules so that we hopefully can solve problems with interpreting the rules in the future..........but what about right now?
The only problem I’ve had with officiating is some of them STILL don’t know that a eurostep is not a travel
Statewide pundit is upset with the quality of officiating and wants to go back to two man.....? I think Mark Twain had a quote that would help me here about arguing with a fool.
EvilMonkey, I don't think my only point was telling you to step on the floor. There are things that conference assignors direct officials to call/no call, and there is nothing they can do. There are also nuances in the rulebook that allow certain things and not others. McCaffery created contact that displaced a ball handler. That was an easy call and the correct call. I'm not sure what you're talking about with the Bohannon play as I can't stomach watching the Hawks with Fran at the helm for obvious reasons, but it sounds like you're referring to the "hot stove" defense, which is legal up to a certain point. That is a judgement call, and the rulebook gives latitude to the official. Usually if the official judges the contact to displace the offensive player or put the defender at an advantage, they'll put a whistle on it. If they don't judge it to be putting the defender at an advantage, play on. My big point is this: if you can cite the rule verbatim (feel free to use an online document to get the verbaige), and you can show video of where they screwed up, I have no problem with it. My problem is with fanboys who don't know the rules pissing and moaning about good calls. Every single clip from the end of that game that I saw was the correct call. McCaffery was wrong, and I'd be happy to debate the merits of the calls via the rulebook.
As far as Eurostep goes, if it is executed correctly, it is not a travel. Here is the crux of the matter with that. Traveling is not about "steps," as the typical fan yells about. Traveling, by the book is lifting the pivot foot and (here is the important part) returning it to the floor before the ball is released. You have to find the pivot foot to determine traveling. It is the first foot to contact the ground once the ball comes to rest. If that is both feet, the last foot to contact the floor is the pivot foot. I can find you some slow motion videos that the NFHS has released to show the difference between a good one and a travel if the following explanation does not make sense:
If a player is in mid step (i.e. both feet off the ground) and the ball comes to rest (i.e. he's gathering for a shot/eurostep), the first foot that comes down is his pivot. So he can "jump step" off that one, "jump step" off his other one, and release the shot and it's legal (i.e. it looks like 3 steps because he gathered mid step). The problem with a lot of high school kids is they gather while a pivot foot is in contact with the ground. At that point, the kid does the same thing (i.e. what looks like 3 steps), and it is a travel. It's hard to explain, but pretty easy to call once you see a few examples and learn to identify the pivot foot.
I'm sure that's more than you all care to know, but it just goes to show how nuanced the rulebook is, and how differently the game looks via the rules of the game and the eyes of an official vs the eyes of the typical fan who thinks they know the rules.
EvilMonkey, I don't think my only point was telling you to step on the floor. There are things that conference assignors direct officials to call/no call, and there is nothing they can do. There are also nuances in the rulebook that allow certain things and not others. McCaffery created contact that displaced a ball handler. That was an easy call and the correct call. I'm not sure what you're talking about with the Bohannon play as I can't stomach watching the Hawks with Fran at the helm for obvious reasons, but it sounds like you're referring to the "hot stove" defense, which is legal up to a certain point. That is a judgement call, and the rulebook gives latitude to the official. Usually if the official judges the contact to displace the offensive player or put the defender at an advantage, they'll put a whistle on it. If they don't judge it to be putting the defender at an advantage, play on. My big point is this: if you can cite the rule verbatim (feel free to use an online document to get the verbaige), and you can show video of where they screwed up, I have no problem with it. My problem is with fanboys who don't know the rules pissing and moaning about good calls. Every single clip from the end of that game that I saw was the correct call. McCaffery was wrong, and I'd be happy to debate the merits of the calls via the rulebook.
As far as Eurostep goes, if it is executed correctly, it is not a travel. Here is the crux of the matter with that. Traveling is not about "steps," as the typical fan yells about. Traveling, by the book is lifting the pivot foot and (here is the important part) returning it to the floor before the ball is released. You have to find the pivot foot to determine traveling. It is the first foot to contact the ground once the ball comes to rest. If that is both feet, the last foot to contact the floor is the pivot foot. I can find you some slow motion videos that the NFHS has released to show the difference between a good one and a travel if the following explanation does not make sense:
If a player is in mid step (i.e. both feet off the ground) and the ball comes to rest (i.e. he's gathering for a shot/eurostep), the first foot that comes down is his pivot. So he can "jump step" off that one, "jump step" off his other one, and release the shot and it's legal (i.e. it looks like 3 steps because he gathered mid step). The problem with a lot of high school kids is they gather while a pivot foot is in contact with the ground. At that point, the kid does the same thing (i.e. what looks like 3 steps), and it is a travel. It's hard to explain, but pretty easy to call once you see a few examples and learn to identify the pivot foot.
I'm sure that's more than you all care to know, but it just goes to show how nuanced the rulebook is, and how differently the game looks via the rules of the game and the eyes of an official vs the eyes of the typical fan who thinks they know the rules.
Serious question on topic.
One peeve of mine is inconsistent foul discrepancies. Where one side of the floor is called really close with ticky tack precision and the other side of the floor is bad boy pistons 90's style basket brawl where nothing is called.
Is it okay to yell out the foul differences like 8 to 2 or it's now 7 to 1? Do refs recognize or notice the differences in calls from one side to other?
One peeve of mine is inconsistent foul discrepancies. Where one side of the floor is called really close with ticky tack precision and the other side of the floor is bad boy pistons 90's style basket brawl where nothing is called.
Is it okay to yell out the foul differences like 8 to 2 or it's now 7 to 1? Do refs recognize or notice the differences in calls from one side to other?
Yeah I heard that a lot during my time on the floor and still hear it in the stands. I didn't like it coming from the coaches because to me, it was an insinuation that I didn't have the integrity to call the game consistently and it would usually result in a pretty stern word from me that I'd heard enough on that subject. If I was feeling especially frisky that night and I had a good relationship/rapport with a guy, they might get a smart response like "I'm an official, not a mathematician. I can't keep track of the fouls, Coach."
The fact of the matter is that most times when there is a foul discrepancy, there's a reason. One team might be more aggressively attacking the basket while the other is in a perimeter offense, one team might be playing tighter defense or pressing, man-to-man vs zone will create some differences as zone tends to encourage perimeter play, or one team might just be sloppy and/or poorly coached on the defensive side. Most of the time when these discrepancies happen, it's not the officials' fault.
If you watch a game that you don't have a stake in that has a high foul difference, 9 times out of 10 you'll see that it's pretty consistent but one team just isn't adjusting to the way the game is called. I really enjoy high school and college ball and watch a lot of it in person and on the television set. I can think of very few instances where it truly seemed like one team was at an advantage and that was in a situation like Duke vs. some terrible team at Cameron. There have been studies done that show in that environment, there is an unconscious bias where they don't even realize it's happening and the officials truly feel like they are calling it consistently. I've attended games at the Phogg, Cameron, and even Wichita State where it would be easy to see how that happens. But I've officiated a LOT of schools and nowhere in Iowa has anything close to that environment. I would be VERY hesitant to say that a high school environment would bother most guys into a foul discrepancy.
I've also watched a lot of my own film and am very critical of myself. One thing that I really tried to look at was my own consistency in calls. As I mentioned, there were probably over 100 games where I had a discrepancy like 8-2 or even 10-1 and I've never watched a film of myself or any guys I've worked with and thought "You know, we really were not calling that fairly." It is almost always attributed to one of the things listed above.
The fact of the matter is that most times when there is a foul discrepancy, there's a reason. One team might be more aggressively attacking the basket while the other is in a perimeter offense, one team might be playing tighter defense or pressing, man-to-man vs zone will create some differences as zone tends to encourage perimeter play, or one team might just be sloppy and/or poorly coached on the defensive side. Most of the time when these discrepancies happen, it's not the officials' fault.
If you watch a game that you don't have a stake in that has a high foul difference, 9 times out of 10 you'll see that it's pretty consistent but one team just isn't adjusting to the way the game is called. I really enjoy high school and college ball and watch a lot of it in person and on the television set. I can think of very few instances where it truly seemed like one team was at an advantage and that was in a situation like Duke vs. some terrible team at Cameron. There have been studies done that show in that environment, there is an unconscious bias where they don't even realize it's happening and the officials truly feel like they are calling it consistently. I've attended games at the Phogg, Cameron, and even Wichita State where it would be easy to see how that happens. But I've officiated a LOT of schools and nowhere in Iowa has anything close to that environment. I would be VERY hesitant to say that a high school environment would bother most guys into a foul discrepancy.
I've also watched a lot of my own film and am very critical of myself. One thing that I really tried to look at was my own consistency in calls. As I mentioned, there were probably over 100 games where I had a discrepancy like 8-2 or even 10-1 and I've never watched a film of myself or any guys I've worked with and thought "You know, we really were not calling that fairly." It is almost always attributed to one of the things listed above.
Great stuff from the Ref, I had a question on the conference assigners, Do they get more specific like, watch XYZ team as they are flopping like fish out of water, or what role do they play if they can say lets not call this stuff? Do they communicate with you guys before a game, like before a rivalry game, that there is bad blood etc?
In college, most conference assignors have some type of group chat where they'll send plays to everyone. When the NCAA and NFHS come out with the points of emphasis (POE) prior to the season we'll usually get a bunch of videos that show how to call what they're talking about. My last year of officiating any meaningful games was the year that they went to really emphasizing defender's verticality and how it is not illegal to jump straight up and if the offense creates the contact, you cannot penalize the defender. We got a bunch of videos sent to us of legal plays where the defender was penalized simply for jumping. They never said "here's a kid that will create that contact, make sure you're not giving him that." They would simply instruct us how to make the call correctly.
Flopping is a tough one because in NFHS by the book, it is supposed to be a technical foul. Most guys will either no-call it or get the defender for a blocking foul when it's an obvious flop. Sometimes a kid will exaggerate the contact but he was actually in good position and the offensive player displaced him so they still get the call. That is one thing that from the stands, I always trust the guys making the call because they are close to the action and they are officiating the defense (i.e. you watch the defender on a drive to make sure they stay legal rather than watching the ball handler). 95% of the time, they get the call right. The other 5%, they're human and we are not perfect.
I did receive film from assignors both high school and college of plays or rulings that I booted. It would be a short clip with a note attached that was like "Can you walk me through what you saw and why you ruled this way?" You knew that the assignor really wanted to just say "What in the world were you thinking, now I've got to deal with a coach and tell him that you screwed it up." And most of the time when they send you something, you were wrong.
That's something that people forget a lot. We're human, we make mistakes, and we know that. We might look like we don't think we do on the court, but I can promise you I would have at least 10-15 conversations with coaches each year where I knew I screwed something up and just flat out told him "you're right coach, I screwed up." Maybe I anticipated a foul and the defender made a great play, maybe I missed a kid with a hair of a shoe on a boundary line, etc. There is no such thing as a makeup call, but that would usually be the last time that season I messed up on that particular play that year. What guys do make sure to do is if it's a 50/50 play and they saw it one way, that's when they will really sell a call to remove any doubt that they believe they saw it one way.
I've never had an assignor high school or college tell us to watch a particular team. Usually at least one guy on the crew is familiar with each team's playing style and we're aware of how they play. Nowadays with most games on YouTube or Hudl and similar services, we're watching film on teams before games just to know how they play. One great example is that every official in central Iowa knew about a leg kick that a player did on shots to try to draw fouls and make it look like the defender contacted him. He got that early in his career but hasn't gotten it much the past couple of years because he was the one creating contact and the defender was in a legal guarding position when the contact was made. So guys really try to make an effort to be informed and to know going into a game what they're going to see, whether that's 1A high school or D1 college ball.
I don't claim to have all the answers, but it is tough for me to see guys who are out there doing what the state and/or assignors are asking them to do and fans/coaches are questioning their integrity or ability. I think every single guy who is out there doing games is the best guy for that game on that night, and even if they boot 3-4 calls in a night, think of all the calls they made that night that were right. It's a fun job most nights and I loved my time doing it, but it is certainly not an easy one especially when every person in the stands thinks they know the rules and you are against them. I've been down at the Well this week and watching the games that I can't get to on youtube, and those guys have done a fantastic job. I have not seen one guy down there who did not belong and there are some new faces down there this year. A lot of the guys that you'll see going forward as we get to the semifinal/final matchups are guys that have worked in D1 conferences including the B1G and Big XII. We have pretty good officials in the state of Iowa and I'm really proud of the work that they do.
Flopping is a tough one because in NFHS by the book, it is supposed to be a technical foul. Most guys will either no-call it or get the defender for a blocking foul when it's an obvious flop. Sometimes a kid will exaggerate the contact but he was actually in good position and the offensive player displaced him so they still get the call. That is one thing that from the stands, I always trust the guys making the call because they are close to the action and they are officiating the defense (i.e. you watch the defender on a drive to make sure they stay legal rather than watching the ball handler). 95% of the time, they get the call right. The other 5%, they're human and we are not perfect.
I did receive film from assignors both high school and college of plays or rulings that I booted. It would be a short clip with a note attached that was like "Can you walk me through what you saw and why you ruled this way?" You knew that the assignor really wanted to just say "What in the world were you thinking, now I've got to deal with a coach and tell him that you screwed it up." And most of the time when they send you something, you were wrong.
That's something that people forget a lot. We're human, we make mistakes, and we know that. We might look like we don't think we do on the court, but I can promise you I would have at least 10-15 conversations with coaches each year where I knew I screwed something up and just flat out told him "you're right coach, I screwed up." Maybe I anticipated a foul and the defender made a great play, maybe I missed a kid with a hair of a shoe on a boundary line, etc. There is no such thing as a makeup call, but that would usually be the last time that season I messed up on that particular play that year. What guys do make sure to do is if it's a 50/50 play and they saw it one way, that's when they will really sell a call to remove any doubt that they believe they saw it one way.
I've never had an assignor high school or college tell us to watch a particular team. Usually at least one guy on the crew is familiar with each team's playing style and we're aware of how they play. Nowadays with most games on YouTube or Hudl and similar services, we're watching film on teams before games just to know how they play. One great example is that every official in central Iowa knew about a leg kick that a player did on shots to try to draw fouls and make it look like the defender contacted him. He got that early in his career but hasn't gotten it much the past couple of years because he was the one creating contact and the defender was in a legal guarding position when the contact was made. So guys really try to make an effort to be informed and to know going into a game what they're going to see, whether that's 1A high school or D1 college ball.
I don't claim to have all the answers, but it is tough for me to see guys who are out there doing what the state and/or assignors are asking them to do and fans/coaches are questioning their integrity or ability. I think every single guy who is out there doing games is the best guy for that game on that night, and even if they boot 3-4 calls in a night, think of all the calls they made that night that were right. It's a fun job most nights and I loved my time doing it, but it is certainly not an easy one especially when every person in the stands thinks they know the rules and you are against them. I've been down at the Well this week and watching the games that I can't get to on youtube, and those guys have done a fantastic job. I have not seen one guy down there who did not belong and there are some new faces down there this year. A lot of the guys that you'll see going forward as we get to the semifinal/final matchups are guys that have worked in D1 conferences including the B1G and Big XII. We have pretty good officials in the state of Iowa and I'm really proud of the work that they do.
As a 30 year coach at the high school level in a number of sports, there have been less than a handful of games, (only 2 come to mind) where I felt officiating was lopsided toward our opponent. One of those games we won, one we lost.
There are some officials that cannot run the floor as well as others, crews call games differently, but the only thing I was concerned about was consistency. I saw that the VAST majority of the games, and those that were not consistent were not consistent for either team.
It is SO hard to be an impartial observer, myself included. But I do try to watch games and not be a fan of either team. Ironically, in almost every game both crowds tend to disagree with calls against their own team. Almost never do you see a fan base complain about a bad / disputed call on the opponent, only when it goes against their team.
I watch many Iowa and Iowa State games and there are some ridiculous complaints about calls against both teams by their fan base. There is no grand conspiracy theory out there that dictates officials should favor one team over another. Calls that are disputed happen for both teams in every game. Players make mistakes in every game, coaches make mistakes in every game.
As far as the original question, I try to never voice my opinion on officials, just as I would not want someone to come to my place of work and tell me how crappy I am on occasion. Or to post my name out on a message board stating I am terrible at my job. I think we can all agree none of us would want that to happen.
I know that almost every game that I coached that I made errors in judgement, or strategy. Same with my workplace. I would bet everyone in this discussion could say the same thing. My suggestion, next time a call goes against your team, take a breath and relax, let the game go on and cheer like heck for your team.
There are some officials that cannot run the floor as well as others, crews call games differently, but the only thing I was concerned about was consistency. I saw that the VAST majority of the games, and those that were not consistent were not consistent for either team.
It is SO hard to be an impartial observer, myself included. But I do try to watch games and not be a fan of either team. Ironically, in almost every game both crowds tend to disagree with calls against their own team. Almost never do you see a fan base complain about a bad / disputed call on the opponent, only when it goes against their team.
I watch many Iowa and Iowa State games and there are some ridiculous complaints about calls against both teams by their fan base. There is no grand conspiracy theory out there that dictates officials should favor one team over another. Calls that are disputed happen for both teams in every game. Players make mistakes in every game, coaches make mistakes in every game.
As far as the original question, I try to never voice my opinion on officials, just as I would not want someone to come to my place of work and tell me how crappy I am on occasion. Or to post my name out on a message board stating I am terrible at my job. I think we can all agree none of us would want that to happen.
I know that almost every game that I coached that I made errors in judgement, or strategy. Same with my workplace. I would bet everyone in this discussion could say the same thing. My suggestion, next time a call goes against your team, take a breath and relax, let the game go on and cheer like heck for your team.
I would recommend that Iowa at least not let the one official in question do Iowa games anymore since we're 6-27 when he refs our games........just a strategical thought that has nothing to do with how he refs the games.
A lot to unpack in this thread, but a few thoughts from a long-time coach here (20 years at HS level, Eastern Iowa):
1. Most officials are fine. Not great, not terrible, but do a satisfactory job as well as they can. Much like most coaches and players.
2. Fans are getting terrible and aren't helping players, teams, or officials.
3. As far as "what can a coach say?" I think a coach is entitled to an answer if he asks a legit question. I also think good, quality officials rarely, if ever, have to give a technical foul. They absolutely don't give T's for what's said unless it's a cussing situation, which is an automatic No-no. I've gotten 5 T's in 20 years, and deserved 3. They were all called by incompetent guys who were in over their head. I've probably only seen high-quality guys give a T 2 or 3 times.
4. CIML makes some good points to be sure. My biggest quibble is his use of the word "judge" and "judgement." Officials assume entirely too much power of judgment. An official should never have to "judge" an advantage, or "judge" players' relative strength (which what they are saying when they talk about contact creating advantage). If we have a good big, and the defender keeps drilling him and he doesn't move (i.e., not "displaced"), it's still a foul. The handcheck rule, for example, explicitly states that placing an arm bar on a player is a foul (10-6-12 for those wondering; I used to keep a copy of it and remind officials of its language should they forget or keeping a hand on him is a foul. Nowhere does it state that a foul is contingent on a perceived advantage. If a guy drives on a guy, and the forearm hits him (or his hips and gut hit him), that's objectively a foul. No interpretation is necessary.
Likewise, if a shooter gets hit, it's a foul. Had a kid's arm he drilled at rim this year; official said, "I didn't think contact made him miss." I about lost it. That's not an official's job to judge that. if a shooter gets hit, it should be a foul.
Honestly, all an official needs to do to be good at his/her job is to call basic fouls as fouls, and call travels, travels. Traveling is woefully mis-called in HS basketball. Kids travel on the catch all the time, and it's rarely called, but any quick shot-fake move is basically an automatic steps.
5. As far as tournament officiating and assignments, I have to disagree with CIML: there is no objective or standardized process by which tourney officials are assigned. This si coming straight from the Boys and Girls Associations to our IBCA board. The biggest requirement is that officials ask to be considered. There's no evidence to suggest that officials selected for tourney games and state play are considered high-quality. I'm not saying they aren't good, but there's no evidence that a standard of excellence criteria is used. We had a guy in our district championship game who has effectively been ousted from our conference for example. He gets perpetual 4's from our coaches, but he has an "in" and winds up doing tourney games. My father-in-law is a long-time official, and he and his crew normally get a tourney game or two. His partner got asked to sub in a district game because a guy got sick several years ago, and now he gets assigned to big games every year. He laughs and admits the only reason he gets an extra game is because he subbed in once. They honestly have no clue what the criteria is to be selected.
6. On the whole, though, the state of HS officiating is not great in Iowa. I would say it's deteriorated significantly in past 10 years. As someone mentioned, every game is so different as to what's a foul or not. It shouldn't be that way. Watch four straight state tourney games, and you'll see four wildly different games being called. We likewise have too many "physically unfit" officials for the job. The issue is there's no consistent or standardized training. I've advocated for film based rules meetings and trainings, for officials AND coaches, to clearly define what a foul or travel is, and then everyone has that reference and expectation. We have a couple phenomenal guys in our area, who always request a copy of the film and any feedback, and it's no coincidence that they're some of the best around. We have a "Conference Pool" on Hudl where all games get uploaded. I would advocate for an officials' access to that pool as well. I think we have some great crews, but there's no impetus to improve really. Someone mentioned 2-man crews. I would have zero problem going back, and I think many coaches would feel the same. I think 2 men crews were more assertive, hustled more, and fought to get calls right. I never heard a 2-man crew member utter the words, "That wasn't call," or even worse (and this got me a T once), "I agree it was a foul, but it's not my call." That's just egregious incompetence. I'm not saying 3-man is a disaster or necessarily needs to be changed, but I see no evidence that the game is better.
7. Last note on the money of officiating. Here's the deal: most officials make more money than basketball coaches. I have little sympathy with the "sacrifice" card pulled by officials. Now, I appreciate their time and efforts, I do, but they're making much more money per hour and in aggregate than a typical coach. My father-in-law will make upwards of $3000 more than I will as a head coach (counting high school dates and spring, summer, fall shootouts, etc.). He doesn't do it "for the money" per se (he was a former player and coach for several years himself). Some officials, however, absolutely do it for the money though.
Officiating is tough, and so is coaching and playing. We just want everyone to have an impetus to improve and have some standards and accountability to ensure we all improve.
1. Most officials are fine. Not great, not terrible, but do a satisfactory job as well as they can. Much like most coaches and players.
2. Fans are getting terrible and aren't helping players, teams, or officials.
3. As far as "what can a coach say?" I think a coach is entitled to an answer if he asks a legit question. I also think good, quality officials rarely, if ever, have to give a technical foul. They absolutely don't give T's for what's said unless it's a cussing situation, which is an automatic No-no. I've gotten 5 T's in 20 years, and deserved 3. They were all called by incompetent guys who were in over their head. I've probably only seen high-quality guys give a T 2 or 3 times.
4. CIML makes some good points to be sure. My biggest quibble is his use of the word "judge" and "judgement." Officials assume entirely too much power of judgment. An official should never have to "judge" an advantage, or "judge" players' relative strength (which what they are saying when they talk about contact creating advantage). If we have a good big, and the defender keeps drilling him and he doesn't move (i.e., not "displaced"), it's still a foul. The handcheck rule, for example, explicitly states that placing an arm bar on a player is a foul (10-6-12 for those wondering; I used to keep a copy of it and remind officials of its language should they forget
or keeping a hand on him is a foul. Nowhere does it state that a foul is contingent on a perceived advantage. If a guy drives on a guy, and the forearm hits him (or his hips and gut hit him), that's objectively a foul. No interpretation is necessary. Likewise, if a shooter gets hit, it's a foul. Had a kid's arm he drilled at rim this year; official said, "I didn't think contact made him miss." I about lost it. That's not an official's job to judge that. if a shooter gets hit, it should be a foul.
Honestly, all an official needs to do to be good at his/her job is to call basic fouls as fouls, and call travels, travels. Traveling is woefully mis-called in HS basketball. Kids travel on the catch all the time, and it's rarely called, but any quick shot-fake move is basically an automatic steps.
5. As far as tournament officiating and assignments, I have to disagree with CIML: there is no objective or standardized process by which tourney officials are assigned. This si coming straight from the Boys and Girls Associations to our IBCA board. The biggest requirement is that officials ask to be considered. There's no evidence to suggest that officials selected for tourney games and state play are considered high-quality. I'm not saying they aren't good, but there's no evidence that a standard of excellence criteria is used. We had a guy in our district championship game who has effectively been ousted from our conference for example. He gets perpetual 4's from our coaches, but he has an "in" and winds up doing tourney games. My father-in-law is a long-time official, and he and his crew normally get a tourney game or two. His partner got asked to sub in a district game because a guy got sick several years ago, and now he gets assigned to big games every year. He laughs and admits the only reason he gets an extra game is because he subbed in once. They honestly have no clue what the criteria is to be selected.
6. On the whole, though, the state of HS officiating is not great in Iowa. I would say it's deteriorated significantly in past 10 years. As someone mentioned, every game is so different as to what's a foul or not. It shouldn't be that way. Watch four straight state tourney games, and you'll see four wildly different games being called. We likewise have too many "physically unfit" officials for the job. The issue is there's no consistent or standardized training. I've advocated for film based rules meetings and trainings, for officials AND coaches, to clearly define what a foul or travel is, and then everyone has that reference and expectation. We have a couple phenomenal guys in our area, who always request a copy of the film and any feedback, and it's no coincidence that they're some of the best around. We have a "Conference Pool" on Hudl where all games get uploaded. I would advocate for an officials' access to that pool as well. I think we have some great crews, but there's no impetus to improve really. Someone mentioned 2-man crews. I would have zero problem going back, and I think many coaches would feel the same. I think 2 men crews were more assertive, hustled more, and fought to get calls right. I never heard a 2-man crew member utter the words, "That wasn't call," or even worse (and this got me a T once), "I agree it was a foul, but it's not my call." That's just egregious incompetence. I'm not saying 3-man is a disaster or necessarily needs to be changed, but I see no evidence that the game is better.
7. Last note on the money of officiating. Here's the deal: most officials make more money than basketball coaches. I have little sympathy with the "sacrifice" card pulled by officials. Now, I appreciate their time and efforts, I do, but they're making much more money per hour and in aggregate than a typical coach. My father-in-law will make upwards of $3000 more than I will as a head coach (counting high school dates and spring, summer, fall shootouts, etc.). He doesn't do it "for the money" per se (he was a former player and coach for several years himself). Some officials, however, absolutely do it for the money though.
Officiating is tough, and so is coaching and playing. We just want everyone to have an impetus to improve and have some standards and accountability to ensure we all improve.
Red,I'd be very curious who you are and if I ever had any of your games or worked with your father in law. Here is what I'd say about your points:
1. Fair enough.
2. Agreed.
3. Every guy has his threshold. A T is just another foul. Every official I ever worked with gave a pretty good indication that he was done with coaches, whether that be through a "stop sign," "I've heard enough, Coach," etc. For me, if it was personal, profane, or persistent I was sitting you down with a T. I think there are not enough T's called, and coaches/players get away with way too much. These officials are adults, and the way that coaches scream at them and talk to them is absurd a lot of nights, especially in the CIML. That's my own personal opinion based on many years between the lines.
4. The problem with not using judgement is that we could go back and forth all night with violations and fouls that have no impact on the game. For example, if a kid commits an illegal dribble (i.e. carry) in the back court while bringing the ball up the court at 4:05 in the 2nd quarter with nobody near them, is there really any reason to call that? Did he gain an advantage? Isn't the spirit of the rules to penalize an unfair advantage gained by breaking a rule? I agree with you that there are times guys miss things, but I'm 100% behind the idea that if it doesn't affect the game, there's no reason to call it. That's what they're teaching at camps that I've been to, that's what the assignors expect, and that's what officials are doing. As I mentioned, any film is very helpful when you are talking about missed calls.
5. For the girls' union, the choices are made by a group of administrators that includes assignors. They then go through the formal eval forms that are filled out by the observers. Each Tuesday/Friday/Saturday, there are a number of observers out watching games and giving feedback/evals. They make good use of those in the postseason. For the boys' union, I am 100% sure that coach recommendations are what it takes to make it far. You will not even get looked at for assignments for post season without the coach recs. At that point, it is a bit of a good old boys' club, but those guys are in there because they are good officials and are reliably good. I will not go into how I know this, but you can either choose to take me at my word or not. As a whole, there are a lot of issues with how postseason is assigned but I think at the end of the day every guy who works the state tournament is at the top of the game as far as high school officials.
6. If you think off ball coverage (illegal screens, holding cutters, etc.) is bad in 3 man, you would hate 2 man crews. It is just a lower quality game.
7. I'm not sure how your father in law is making that much money doing basketball. Most guys have about 25-30 games per season at $100 per game. That's $3000. Even at the 1A level, head coaches make $2500-3000, so I'm not sure how your guy is making $6000. Either he's lying or your math is off. At the end of the day, for a 6 hour commitment minimum they're making $100-$115. At most, that's less than $20/hr to get yelled at, booed, and in some instances put their own safety at risk. You can scoff at that, but I had many instances where we had to be escorted to our vehicles by the police because people were threatening us.
Overall, I agree that maybe we could improve our standards on who gets what games and there are some guys who don't care to improve. As a whole, I can promise you that nearly every guy I was ever in the locker room with wanted to be there and wanted to do a good job. But here's the problem: when you've got 100 crews of varying levels, and 100 games, ultimately someone is going to get a lower quality crew. As I mentioned, I'd love it if more people came in to help the quality of officiating. I'd also agree that officials should have access to Hudl. Right now, ,the only way guys can get video that's on Hudl is if the coach/AD downloads it and emails it. They have a lot better things to do a lot of times and don't get around to that. It shouldn't be their responsibility to allow officials to improve by watching film.
1. Fair enough.
2. Agreed.
3. Every guy has his threshold. A T is just another foul. Every official I ever worked with gave a pretty good indication that he was done with coaches, whether that be through a "stop sign," "I've heard enough, Coach," etc. For me, if it was personal, profane, or persistent I was sitting you down with a T. I think there are not enough T's called, and coaches/players get away with way too much. These officials are adults, and the way that coaches scream at them and talk to them is absurd a lot of nights, especially in the CIML. That's my own personal opinion based on many years between the lines.
4. The problem with not using judgement is that we could go back and forth all night with violations and fouls that have no impact on the game. For example, if a kid commits an illegal dribble (i.e. carry) in the back court while bringing the ball up the court at 4:05 in the 2nd quarter with nobody near them, is there really any reason to call that? Did he gain an advantage? Isn't the spirit of the rules to penalize an unfair advantage gained by breaking a rule? I agree with you that there are times guys miss things, but I'm 100% behind the idea that if it doesn't affect the game, there's no reason to call it. That's what they're teaching at camps that I've been to, that's what the assignors expect, and that's what officials are doing. As I mentioned, any film is very helpful when you are talking about missed calls.
5. For the girls' union, the choices are made by a group of administrators that includes assignors. They then go through the formal eval forms that are filled out by the observers. Each Tuesday/Friday/Saturday, there are a number of observers out watching games and giving feedback/evals. They make good use of those in the postseason. For the boys' union, I am 100% sure that coach recommendations are what it takes to make it far. You will not even get looked at for assignments for post season without the coach recs. At that point, it is a bit of a good old boys' club, but those guys are in there because they are good officials and are reliably good. I will not go into how I know this, but you can either choose to take me at my word or not. As a whole, there are a lot of issues with how postseason is assigned but I think at the end of the day every guy who works the state tournament is at the top of the game as far as high school officials.
6. If you think off ball coverage (illegal screens, holding cutters, etc.) is bad in 3 man, you would hate 2 man crews. It is just a lower quality game.
7. I'm not sure how your father in law is making that much money doing basketball. Most guys have about 25-30 games per season at $100 per game. That's $3000. Even at the 1A level, head coaches make $2500-3000, so I'm not sure how your guy is making $6000. Either he's lying or your math is off. At the end of the day, for a 6 hour commitment minimum they're making $100-$115. At most, that's less than $20/hr to get yelled at, booed, and in some instances put their own safety at risk. You can scoff at that, but I had many instances where we had to be escorted to our vehicles by the police because people were threatening us.
Overall, I agree that maybe we could improve our standards on who gets what games and there are some guys who don't care to improve. As a whole, I can promise you that nearly every guy I was ever in the locker room with wanted to be there and wanted to do a good job. But here's the problem: when you've got 100 crews of varying levels, and 100 games, ultimately someone is going to get a lower quality crew. As I mentioned, I'd love it if more people came in to help the quality of officiating. I'd also agree that officials should have access to Hudl. Right now, ,the only way guys can get video that's on Hudl is if the coach/AD downloads it and emails it. They have a lot better things to do a lot of times and don't get around to that. It shouldn't be their responsibility to allow officials to improve by watching film.
I don't know that I've ever had blatantly biased/unfair refs. I've had good refs and poor refs. But almost always they're consistent, and as a coach that's all I ask. If we know how the game is going to be called, we can make adjustments and then just worry about taking care of our own business. Also, while we probably only had 2 or 3 really good crews this year, we probably only had 1 or 2 really poor ones. For the most part our crews were solid. And in almost every game I felt they were consistent. I have great respect for their craft as well as the amount of BS they're willing to tolerate from coaches & fans in order to allow kids the opportunity to compete.
Complaining about officiating? What a novel concept! Well over 50% of games are decided by the stripes. It’s a crime I tell ya. A crime.
Don’t understand sarcasm eh? The ref bashing gets old. Nothing new. All refs are out to get YOUR team. It’s always been that way. And of course it’s true! Now, let’s start the annual private school thread.
It is more likely your bias is getting in your way of being an impartial arbiter of officiating quality than an official being out to get a team or player. Officials aren't doing games where they have a vested interest in the outcome like a fan watching does.
I had many instances where we had to be escorted to our vehicles by the police because people were threatening us.
You need to find a new hobby if this is actually the case
You need to find a new hobby if this is actually the case
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