Questions here about new classification of school

[KidSilverhair]

Becasue all of us 3A schools don't want to compete with you. Leave us alone. Its your fault you stink at Football.

Since I haven’t played tackle football since August 1982, I completely agree I’d stink at it now. Still curious as to how the IHSAA giving up on their plans to try to bring some competitive balance to the top 40-ish schools in the state has anything to do with *me*, but, whatever dude ...

 

[KidSilverhair]

And if that’s supposed to be a shot at Xavier (since it’s no secret on this board that my kids went there, I’ve been covering them on the radio since 2011, and therefore somehow the 3A schools don’t want to compete with *me*), I’ll point out a couple of things.

* It wasn’t Xavier’s idea to break up the MVC and MAC and go to districts in the east side. If those conferences still existed for football, Xavier would still be playing a 4A schedule.

* When districts came to 4A in the east in 2014, moving Xavier to 3A by enrollment (which is the exact same way every single other school in Iowa has chosen to be classified - why is no one complaining that Pella or Western Dubuque ought to volunteer to play up a class?), the belief was that the Saints would completely destroy the balance in 3A. Here are the 3A state champions since then:

Pella
Pella
Pella
Xavier
Xavier
Western Dubuque
North Scott

Remember, Harlan won 8 3A titles in 17 years, including three in a row, so ... should *they* have been forced to play 4A back then because of “balance”?

(That said, I’m not totally against the idea of the top performing teams, calculated over a rolling average of wins over a number of years, being moved up a class while the poorest performers move down in a kind of soccer-relegation type of system. I also acknowledge private schools do have advantages over public - not by recruiting [in most cases, arguments can be made for certain schools], but by the socioeconomic effects of those families, more parent involvement, limits on students they select. There probably should be some adjustment, maybe a multiplier ... but everyone plays with the rules that exist now. And the facts don’t seem to show that Xavier has ruined balance in 3A.)

 

[KidSilverhair]

Also note that general talk of private school multipliers is like 1.5 or 1.75 or something - in Illinois it’s 1.65.

It would take a multiplier of over 2.00 (or *double*) to get Xavier into the top 36. Doubling last year’s BEDS of 454 gives you 908, which would put them at 39 on the list, between Davenport North and Fort Dodge (I’m adding one school to last years list with the new Waukee school).

 

[Reasoned]

Yeah and a multiplier doesn’t do much to Dowling. It does seem curious after all the discussions, questionnaires and adjustments for the original 2020 schedules it looks as though they may take a different path in 2021. I for one was glad they ditched the proposed 20 schedules, our school had a brutal schedule based on previous year’s successes and could have had their worst record in decades.

 

[cidhawkeye]

Also note that general talk of private school multipliers is like 1.5 or 1.75 or something - in Illinois it’s 1.65.

It would take a multiplier of over 2.00 (or *double*) to get Xavier into the top 36. Doubling last year’s BEDS of 454 gives you 908, which would put them at 39 on the list, between Davenport North and Fort Dodge (I’m adding one school to last years list with the new Waukee school).

Reminder that the Illannoy modifier is for all non boundary schools, not just private. With OE all Iowa schools would be multiplied unless they modified the rule.

 

[PNation]

Where are you getting the “new” BEDS numbers? All I have seen is the numbers that were used for last year.

The state (education not athletics) has them, the IAHSAA uses the ones from this year for next year. There aren't any that I can find easily for parochial schools. I also assumed that Waukee would be split in half, but I don't know that for sure it could be possible that one of them could be down in 4A, also with CR Washington I wonder if they could the enrollment of the alternative school in there number because while they have be shrinking the last 5 years they are set to lose about 60 kids per class.

 

[KidSilverhair]

The state (education not athletics) has them, the IAHSAA uses the ones from this year for next year. There aren't any that I can find easily for parochial schools. I also assumed that Waukee would be split in half, but I don't know that for sure it could be possible that one of them could be down in 4A, also with CR Washington I wonder if they could the enrollment of the alternative school in there number because while they have be shrinking the last 5 years they are set to lose about 60 kids per class.

Oh, that could be right, they might roll the Metro High numbers in with Wash, that kinda makes sense.

Again, though, where are these numbers easily findable? I can find the enrollment for each school by grade, but to get a BEDS number that would meaning adding grades 9 through 11 for each school and I really don’t want to do that.

 

[PNation]

That’s what I did, pretty easy to do with copying and pasting on to a google sheet

 

[Ozzy4335]

Again, just using last year's BEDS, so this isn't going to be anything exact, but I threw together some potential districts for 4A this fall. I can't say they're perfect, because they're not, but assuming these are the 36 4A schools these are possible:

D-1: LeMars, Spencer, Storm Lake, Webster City, Fort Dodge, Denison-Schleswig
D-2: Mason City, Decorah, Waverly-Shell Rock, Waterloo East, Western Dubuque, CR Xavier
D-3: Marion, Clinton, Davenport North, North Scott, Iowa City Liberty, Clear Creek-Amana
D-4: Pella, Oskaloosa, Ottumwa, Mount Pleasant, Burlington, Fort Madison
D-5: Boone, Bondurant-Farrar, Newton, DM Hoover, Carlisle, Indianola
D-6: Lewis Central, Glenwood, Creston-OM, Dallas Center-Grimes, ADM, Norwalk

My Winners here
D-1 Webster City
D-2 Xavier
D-3 Liberty
D-4 Pella
D-5 Newton (I know but Newton is a sleeper here Their Junior Class this past year was full of HUGE men)
D-6 DCG? (This one is tough for me not familiar)

 

[Pinehawk]

It will be interesting if some of the Governor's school related proposals end up passing through the legislature.
They allowed for lifting transfer restrictions which would have a big impact on athletics moving forward.

 

[Ozzy4335]

It would be a really fun thing if someone would group the schools together like kidsilver did for 4A. I don't have the knowledge.

 

[Ozzy4335]

It will be interesting if some of the Governor's school related proposals end up passing through the legislature.
They allowed for lifting transfer restrictions which would have a big impact on athletics moving forward.

I'd like to see all parochial schools move to 5A

 

[Pinehawk]

I'd like to see all parochial schools move to 5A

I'm sure you would.
But, instead, soon you may be more upset at all the public school kids freely transferring around the state to set up all star teams.

 

[Pinehawk]

"WATERLOO, Iowa (KWWL)- In a 66-page bill introduced on Wednesday, Governor Kim Reynolds laid out sweeping school choice reforms to give parents more options on where they send their kids to school.

Senate Study Bill 1065 is an omnibus bill that tackles a handful of school choice issues, including school vouchers and charter schools.

"Our parents need choice, and it’s not just in-person versus virtual," Governor Reynolds said during her annual Condition of the State speech earlier this month. "Sometimes, it’s about which school to attend altogether."

Among the key components of the bill:

• The bill would establish a state-funded school voucher scholarship program for public school students who want to attend private school.
• Makes open enrollment available in all districts.
• Removing voluntary diversity plans for some larger school districts.

Reynolds said school choice had the potential to raise the quality of all schools.

"School choice shouldn’t be limited to those who have the financial means or are lucky to live in a district that’s confident enough to allow open enrollment," she said. "We have and will continue to prioritize school funding while many other states are cutting their education budgets."

Republicans are expected to move quickly on the bill. It will go before a Senate education subcommittee at 10:30 Monday morning."

https://kwwl.com/2021/01/24/governor-reynolds-rolls-out-sweeping-school-choice-proposal/

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Yeah and a multiplier doesn’t do much to Dowling. It does seem curious after all the discussions, questionnaires and adjustments for the original 2020 schedules it looks as though they may take a different path in 2021. I for one was glad they ditched the proposed 20 schedules, our school had a brutal schedule based on previous year’s successes and could have had their worst record in decades.

Ya know....if not for covid, could Dowling be one of those schools/academies that travels around the country for their football schedule and competes for a national championship, instead of just playing in-state?

Or maybe that's just basketball that does that......

Either way, that's an idea for how to get rid of Dowling at the highest class.

Then you'd just have to figure out how to get rid of Valley, Ankeny and Southeast Polk as well.......

 

[KidSilverhair]

I'm sure you would.
But, instead, soon you may be more upset at all the public school kids freely transferring around the state to set up all star teams.

That “transfers are instantly eligible for sports” thing is gonna have some big unintended consequences.

Like, say some stud RB/LB plays for Urbandale. Urbandale loses in the first round of the playoffs. Valley or Dowling or Centennial has their starting RB hurt at the end of the season, or in the first-round game. This stud could transfer to Valley or Dowling or Centennial that week and be eligible to play in their second-round game.

There are *some* guardrails in place (the transfer rules about both schools agreeing, coaches who may not want to poison their team’s chemistry with a ringer, the player picking up a new system in a week) but it would be possible under this proposal from the Governor.

 

[Pinehawk]

Would the IAHSAA still be able to make their own transfer rules, or would this new law override their ability to do so? I'm not sure.

 

[IGo42]

I looked up the new BED's numbers for most of the A, 1A, and 2A schools in NE Iowa if this helps anyone.

It's hard to tell what the cutoff will be between A/1A and 1A/2A this cycle, but if past years are any indication, I believe Class A is usually 120's-160's and 1A is usually 160's-220's. 2A is usually 220's-350's

EdCo 109
St Ansgar 124
Nashua 128
Lisbon 134
East Buc 135
N. Linn 136
W. Hancock 136
Maq Valley 142
Starmont 144
W Fork 149
Clay. Ridge 152
South Winn 152
Lake Mills 154
Wapsie 155
Alburnett 157
N Cedar 157
Bellevue 157
Hudson 161
Grundy 167
Postville 170
Cascade 172
MFL-MM 175
Cent. Springs 179
Sum-Fred 181
Aplington P 187
Denver 190
Dike NH 190
Jesup 217
Osage 218
NE Goose Lk 222
Union 237
NFV 240
New Hamp. 260
Waukon 265
Monticello 282
Oelwein 288
Anamosa 309
Crestwood 316
Vinton 346
Indee 360
CPU 364

No idea about Beckman, Regina, Wat Columbus, or MC Newman (all private and #'s don't show up)

So EdCo will likely go 8-man
Grundy, Postville and MFL likely go up to 1A
Jesup, Osage and NE Goose Lake could go up to 2A

 

[FootballFan1009]

Not going to make a huge difference, but remember the number of teams in each class has changed and the addition of 5A.
For example last year 1A would have been schools with Beds ranking as 148-204 largest.
This year 156th biggest school in Iowa (according to beds) will be the largest in 1A and 202 will be the smallest.

Looks like the bottom of 1a won't see a lot of change, but the biggest schools in 1a will be bumping up. For this I do not foresee too many A schools jumping up. I would imagine Grundy Center and MFL stays A. Postville has a good chance of moving up.

 

[Reasoned]

Yeah and a multiplier doesn’t do much to Dowling. It does seem curious after all the discussions, questionnaires and adjustments for the original 2020 schedules it looks as though they may take a different path in 2021. I for one was glad they ditched the proposed 20 schedules, our school had a brutal schedule based on previous year’s successes and could have had their worst record in decades.

Ya know....if not for covid, could Dowling be one of those schools/academies that travels around the country for their football schedule and competes for a national championship, instead of just playing in-state?

Or maybe that's just basketball that does that......

Either way, that's an idea for how to get rid of Dowling at the highest class.

Then you'd just have to figure out how to get rid of Valley, Ankeny and Southeast Polk as well.......

I wasn’t implying there’s a desire “to get rid of Dowling”, rather pointing out the limitation on utilizing a multiplier (as IL does) for moving schools up a class (or more) when it pertains to a school already in the largest class. As pointed out, since IA has open enrollment (all be it with limitations in some areas), sounds like the legislature may have a plan to fix this.

 

[Break the Rock]

My Winners here
D-1 Webster City
D-2 Xavier
D-3 Liberty
D-4 Pella
D-5 Newton (I know but Newton is a sleeper here Their Junior Class this past year was full of HUGE men)
D-6 DCG? (This one is tough for me not familiar)

Ft Dodge
Decorah
North Scott
Pella
Indianola
Lewis Central

 

[troutstamp1]

Not going to make a huge difference, but remember the number of teams in each class has changed and the addition of 5A.
For example last year 1A would have been schools with Beds ranking as 148-204 largest.
This year 156th biggest school in Iowa (according to beds) will be the largest in 1A and 202 will be the smallest.

Looks like the bottom of 1a won't see a lot of change, but the biggest schools in 1a will be bumping up. For this I do not foresee too many A schools jumping up. I would imagine Grundy Center and MFL stays A. Postville has a good chance of moving up.

Pretty sure in talking to some schools that Grundy, MFL and Postville will all move up to 1A as hearing the cut line will be around 165.

 

[PNation]

The cutoff for class A is pretty similar

Last year the classes about class A were
40
54
54
54
which equals 202

This year
36
36
36
48
48
which equals 204

So only 2 class A schools would move up to 1A.

 

[Zeek86]

Correct...it may only add two schools to the non A 11 man classes...but BEDS change...and with the number changes...Postville and MFL are almost certain to be in 1A...and Grundy will be right around the cut line between A and 1A

 

[troutstamp1]

The cutoff for class A is pretty similar

Last year the classes about class A were
40
54
54
54
which equals 202

This year
36
36
36
48
48
which equals 204

So only 2 class A schools would move up to 1A.

What you also have to remember is some of those schools listed in the top 204 schools dont play football or are combined so that puts a few more schools in class A. More schools likley to come down to class A than go 8 man. Pekin, Hudson, AGWSR all smaller than Grundy, Postville and MFL. The big question is will the state keep allowing Newel Fonda to play 8 man when their enrollment has been in the 130s the last 3 years.
MFL 175 was class A
Postville 171 was class A
Grundy 167 was class A
Hudson 161 was class 1A
Pekin 159 was class 1A
AGWSR 142 was class 1A

 

[PNation]

AGWSR was 8 man, Iowa Valley has been consistently above the cutoff but allowed to continue playing 8 man also.

 

[Ozzy4335]

Ft Dodge
Decorah
North Scott
Pella
Indianola
Lewis Central

I picked Webster City because I heard they had very few seniors playing last year on their fairly decent team.

 

[KidSilverhair]

I've been following the lead of PNation and poking around with the latest enrollment numbers on the Department of Education website. As he says, there aren't updated numbers for private schools, so those numbers are a year old, but adding up the current public school figures for grades 9-11 should get a good estimation of a BEDS number. Then, of course, there's program sharing and all that, which I know I haven't done a complete job of accounting for - so these are preliminary unofficial numbers, please no wagering, if I'm wrong I'm admitting it right now up front.

It looks like Ottumwa and Davenport North might make it into 5A, with Urbandale and CB Thomas Jefferson perhaps replacing them in 4A. Again, things might get adjusted by alternate enrollments I'm not getting added in, so I dunno if that's accurate. If CBTJ is in 4A, that adds another team to that southwest district with Lewis Central and Glenwood, which is kind of helpful in that area, especially if Creston ends up going to 3A. If Ottumwa makes it into 5A, they're yet again completely on an island, and Mount Pleasant/Fort Madison/Burlington get isolated (although maybe it‘s a return of the MAC district with Clinton/North Scott?).

If Creston stays combined with Orient-Macksburg, they'll be in 4A, with Decorah, Fort Madison, and Mount Pleasant possibly the smallest schools in the class, and the BEDS cutoff around 425-420 or so. If Creston decides not to combine, Carroll, Keokuk, Perry, and ADM are all at almost the exact same enrollment, so one of them would probably move into the class. The others would be the largest schools in 3A.

As you get to the bottom of 3A/top of 2A I'm sure my counts are going astray with sharing/other enrollments not getting added in right. The 3A/2A cutoff appears to be around 327-319, which might include Sioux Center, Hampton-Dumont, Saydel, Atlantic, Mount Vernon, Clarke, and Iowa Falls-Alden in that mix somewhere.

And that's about as far as I went, considering my numbers are going vary too much with the smaller districts, I'm afraid. The 2A/1A cutoff looks to be around 220-215, in that area, which is about projected BEDS numbers for Camanche/Osage/Jesup/Carroll Kuemper/Pocahontas Area/Treynor.

 

[NTRedhawks]

Where are you finding BEDS for 2021-2022?

 

[3buzzmable]

Google search for “2020-2021 Iowa Public School District PreK-12 enrollments”.

This will give you the enrollment numbers for grades 9-11. The enrollment numbers are not broken down by high school in district like Des Moines that have multiple high schools.

 

[Reasoned]

Speaking of “BEDS” calculations, I would suspect the actual enrollments for 20-21 are going to be down (perhaps very materially) in many public school districts due to the pandemic and families choosing to homeschool or send their kids to private schools (which may have offered in person teaching).

 

[WHANCOCK]

I have read that Orient-Macksburg will begin whole grade sharing with Nodaway Valley. That may answer the Creston question about which class they'll be in....

 

[GoEagles1997]

I have seen that O-M is sharing with Nodaway Valley. That puts Creston in 3A and moves NV up to 1A. Good luck to them against Van Meter
Central DeWitt shares with Cal-Wheatland and that would bump them to 4A. I see Urbandale as the smallest 5A and Decorah as the smallest 4A. fort Madison and Mount Pleasant both share which moves them higher in 4A.

 

[ISUChip]

I have read that Orient-Macksburg will begin whole grade sharing with Nodaway Valley. That may answer the Creston question about which class they'll be in....

Not technically whole-grade sharing, I believe, but one of the shared components will be activities -- including football.

From the 1/14 Nodaway Valley board meeting packet:

Introduction
a. This agreement is made by and between the Board of Directors of the Orient-Macksburg Community School District (Orient-Macksburg) and the Board of Directors of the Nodaway Valley Community School District (NVCSD) pursuant to Iowa Code section 280.13A.
b. This agreement shall be effective July 1, 2021 and shall continue for five years, unless earlier terminated by mutual written agreement of the Parties. This agreement will automatically continue thereafter for additional one-year terms unless either party delivers written notice to the other by January 1 that it wishes to terminate the agreement at the end of the then-current school year. This agreement will automatically end in the event that either District successfully votes to reorganize.
c. The purpose of this agreement is to facilitate a shared 7-12 football & wrestling program, and high school boys and girls golf and bowling programs between the two school districts.
d. NVCSD will serve as host school and will assume responsibility for operating and administrating the football, wrestling, golf, and bowling programs. Orient-Macksburg will act as the sending school in the agreement.
e. Administration The administrators of both Districts may consider an additional activities if the need arises. Other activities may be added to this Agreement by a written amendment signed by both parties.

 

[PNation]

I am able to find the list broken down by building, so you can do for instance the Des Moines high schools, I will say though that I believe sometimes there is like an alternative schools who kids go play for a specific high school within the district and those numbers are added. It is also nice to look at by building because there are some schools with online services that greatly skew their numbers Clayton Ridge and CAM are the two that come to mind.

 

[IGo42]

Not technically whole-grade sharing, I believe, but one of the shared components will be activities -- including football.

From the 1/14 Nodaway Valley board meeting packet:

Introduction
a. This agreement is made by and between the Board of Directors of the Orient-Macksburg Community School District (Orient-Macksburg) and the Board of Directors of the Nodaway Valley Community School District (NVCSD) pursuant to Iowa Code section 280.13A.
b. This agreement shall be effective July 1, 2021 and shall continue for five years, unless earlier terminated by mutual written agreement of the Parties. This agreement will automatically continue thereafter for additional one-year terms unless either party delivers written notice to the other by January 1 that it wishes to terminate the agreement at the end of the then-current school year. This agreement will automatically end in the event that either District successfully votes to reorganize.
c. The purpose of this agreement is to facilitate a shared 7-12 football & wrestling program, and high school boys and girls golf and bowling programs between the two school districts.
d. NVCSD will serve as host school and will assume responsibility for operating and administrating the football, wrestling, golf, and bowling programs. Orient-Macksburg will act as the sending school in the agreement.
e. Administration The administrators of both Districts may consider an additional activities if the need arises. Other activities may be added to this Agreement by a written amendment signed by both parties.

If that's the case then Nodaway Valley/OM will be around 186 (151 + 35) and they'd be 1A. That would possibly keep Grundy Center down as one of the biggest Class A schools.

 

[3buzzmable]

I am able to find the list broken down by building, so you can do for instance the Des Moines high schools, I will say though that I believe sometimes there is like an alternative schools who kids go play for a specific high school within the district and those numbers are added. It is also nice to look at by building because there are some schools with online services that greatly skew their numbers Clayton Ridge and CAM are the two that come to mind.

If that is the case, can you tell me what enrollment numbers you have for CBTJ and CBAL?

 

[IGo42]

If my numbers are right this is what you'd have:

Council Bluffs Abe Lincoln- 1016 Which makes it the 32nd biggest school in the state (5A)
Council Bluffs Thomas Jeff- 939 Which makes it the 37th biggest school in the state (biggest 4A)

 

[McC4300]

Does anyone have any information on how many districts will be in each class, and how many teams in a district?

 

[IGo42]

Does anyone have any information on how many districts will be in each class, and how many teams in a district?

I've heard 6 teams per district in each class except A, A might have up to 8 in each district.
Believe RPI will be used in 5A, 4A, 3A to determine playoff qualifers with 6 districts of 6 teams.
2A, 1A will be top 4 in each district make playoffs( 8 districts of 6 teams), bottom 2 teams in each district can schedule a 9th game against each other.
Class A will most likely be 8 districts of 7 to 8 teams per per district, depending on how many teams there are.