Potential for a message board meltdown

[LukeFeddersen]

In 3A, 2A, and 1A: 4 out of 6 schools are private. 3A will have a private school champion.

If Western Christian and St. Albert win, look for the meltdown to begin. I am calling it early. And this happens every freaking year if private schools have success.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

I'll be the first to say it. We need a multiplier. Anyone who isn't bias towards a private school knows it. Private schools benefit from recruiting and it shows once again.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

I would also like to point out that since Wahlert and Xavier have both been in 3A, neither of them have lost in the postseason to a public school. That is a problem.

 

[Pinehawk]

This will probably be the time that this issue gets sorted out...

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

This will probably be the time that this issue gets sorted out...

I would sure hope so.

 

[Bulldog198240]

Lazy boys in Boone don't care.....

 

[StatewidePundit]

public schools recruit just as much anymore

 

[ghost80]

Lazy boys in Boone don't care.....

They will care when the public schools (which are the vast majority) become fed up and an interloper begins sniffing around the public schools promising a public only athletic union or at least a union that segregates public/private play for tournaments. When Boone sees their paychecks in peril due to this interloper they will suddenly want to take action....the question will be if it is too later for them to survive a serious challenge.

That is when you will see the meltdown and it won't be by the public schools/players/fans. It will be by Boone and the private schools/players/fans when they finally find themselves placed into 1 or 2 private classes for tournament play.

No multiplier is needed....since they desire to be separate from public schools, let them be separate in sports too.

 

[paxregis]

The few states that have enacted a multiplier have not seen a reduction in private school championships. The same successful programs move up a class and still win titles.

I would like to see a reverse multiplier like Minnesota. They take their gross enrollment numbers for each school and deduct 40% of their Free & Reduced Lunch eligible students. This accounts for the lower participation rate of students living in poverty. The F&R factor places most of the Minneapolis/St. Paul schools and well as the more economically depressed out state city schools down a class or two, instead of the highest classes if raw numbers were used.

 

[basketball777]

What about recruiting with in urban schools within the same district? It happens....also spring break is close...so how many players are moving to get in the 90....what is key reasons private has the success? more talent top to bottom, cherry picking cream of the crop, great coaching, better facilities or program.....another thing there are plenty of privates towards the bottom of the state, private does not mean instant success...food for thought

 

[Bulldog198240]

If you are a private school in large population ...Cedar Rapids , Dubuque, Sioux City.....you should have to play in The larger class...the other 3A don't have that student population to pull from ....problem solved

But of course they go their for the education!

"I attended Kennedy High School for my freshman and part of my sophomore year,” junior forward Max Techau said. “I transferred to Xavier because I thought it would be a better fit for me overall as well as for my future in basketball"

At least he's honest!

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

public schools recruit just as much anymore

No they don't. Private schools recruit their whole team. (They literally have to)

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

What about recruiting with in urban schools within the same district? It happens....also spring break is close...so how many players are moving to get in the 90....what is key reasons private has the success? more talent top to bottom, cherry picking cream of the crop, great coaching, better facilities or program.....another thing there are plenty of privates towards the bottom of the state, private does not mean instant success...food for thought

Because they recruit in athletes so the whole school is filled with athletes and the enrollment numbers don't get filled up with special needs/foreign exchange/alternative school kids. It has nothing to do with great coaching or better facilities.

 

[EagleHawk]

No they don't. Private schools recruit their whole team. (They literally have to)

I'm not going to comment on Xavier, because that clearly is a different story, but please take a look at Western Christian or Pella Christian and look at how many of those kids have been in private schools since they were in Kindergarten. If they recruit, their coaches are geniuses at identifying talent. I am interested to see what happens to Western in the next couple of years with their coach retiring this season, but I think that there is enough talent in NW Iowa (Sioux County) that they won't have much of a drop off.

 

[dilbert27]

Bulldog is making sense. The private schools from large cities should play in 4A. But there's just no way all the private schools are going to have their own "class". The Algona Garrigan's and LeMars Gehlen's of the world cannot compete with the Xavier's, Whalert's and Dowling Catholic's. We're talking about what 4 or 5 private schools that everyone is upset about? So lets just throw them all in one "class" and watch those same 4 or 5 teams compete for title every year? I'd bet the kids who are actually playing like playing the private schools, get more satisfaction out of beating them and like the competition. It's the 30 year old seniors on here that have a problem with it. I'm from a public school, had a very good private school in our conference and often had to beat another private school every year in substate, we definitely wanted to play them every year. Want to beat the best to be the best. All this whining gets annoying.

 

[basketball777]

No they don't. Private schools recruit their whole team. (They literally have to)

"Never..." did you go to a private school or coach at a private school? If not, how can you make a blanket statement then? Most players going to a private school, pay full tuition in addition to paying for their public schools taxes. No financial help. Those that get help are not athletes only, but anyone going to the private school and is based on income, not talent...So back to why they choose to go to a private school....? Also, as stated by someone else, if you look at students on a private school team, a lot of them went to the school for several years leading up to their high school sports years...

 

[PrideOrDie30]

"Never..." did you go to a private school or coach at a private school? If not, how can you make a blanket statement then? Most players going to a private school, pay full tuition in addition to paying for their public schools taxes. No financial help. Those that get help are not athletes only, but anyone going to the private school and is based on income, not talent...So back to why they choose to go to a private school....? Also, as stated by someone else, if you look at students on a private school team, a lot of them went to the school for several years leading up to their high school sports years...

He is full of blanket statements.

 

[sarcastico]

Threads like this are why this board sucks right now. 90% of the posts on the board are just petty bitching and pointless arguing. It seems very few people actually want to talk basketball, which is a real shame because there has been some great basketball going on this week. Even in the game threads the same few people continue to completely ignore the games and just bring up the same tired old crap they have been pushing for weeks now. So much whining...the seeding is bad, wah, privates are too good, wah, the refs missed a call, wah, the boys in Boone don't like me, wah. I swear a few of you are just completely ruining this board. How about we actually just talk about the great basketball games we have in store the next couple days. I know that is what I am going to do.

 

[Iafootballfan]

Oh look, another private school recruiting thread. We all know it happens, the only people who deny it are the private schools winning. Public schools do it as well, but more indirectly.

St. Albert for example pulls the athletes from middle to upper class families in a 4A district and then beats up on farm towns in both football and basketball.

Don't plan on it changing anytime soon.

 

[Bulldog198240]

Threads like this are why this board sucks right now. 90% of the posts on the board are just petty bitching and pointless arguing. It seems very few people actually want to talk basketball, which is a real shame because there has been some great basketball going on this week. Even in the game threads the same few people continue to completely ignore the games and just bring up the same tired old crap they have been pushing for weeks now. So much whining...the seeding is bad, wah, privates are too good, wah, the refs missed a call, wah, the boys in Boone don't like me, wah. I swear a few of you are just completely ruining this board. How about we actually just talk about the great basketball games we have in store the next couple days. I know that is what I am going to do.

There are some great games going on...Xavier-Pella was a classic...today's 4A should be exciting!...how about Turner Scott from Valley!...

 

[sarcastico]

There are some great games going on...Xavier-Pella was a classic...today's 4A should be exciting!...how about Turner Scott from Valley!...

That whole Valley team is really fun to watch. Scott and Curry are both so versatile in either getting to the basket or hitting the jumper. I am looking forward to watching them play again today.

 

[LAK26]

Put aside the recruiting talk for a moment. In the case of 1A, CBSA played only ONE 1A opponent all year prior to districts. Half of their schedule was against 3A & 4A opponents. To me that's a bigger advantage than potential/alleged recruiting.

Why not make a rule that your postseason classification is equal to that of the schools who make up the highest % of your regular season schedule? If you're a 1A team by enrollment and play 25% of games against 4A, 25% against 3A, 40% against 2A, & 10% against 1A, then you bump up to 2A since the highest % of games were played against 2A opponents.

However, I'd add the stipulation that if X% (i.e. 25%) of your regular season games are against teams higher than your classification, you bump up one class. So if you're 1A by enrollment and play 75% against 1A teams, 20% against 2A teams, & 5% against 3A teams, then you bump up to 2A since 25% of your games were against teams above your enrollment determined class.

This would treat private & public schools the same.

 

[LukeFeddersen]

This will probably be the time that this issue gets sorted out...

 

[LukeFeddersen]

CBSA played only ONE 1A opponent all year prior to districts. Half of their schedule was against 3A & 4A opponents.

That is CRAZY. Good for them though scheduling tough opponents. I wonder how Tri-Center snuck on that schedule.

 

[Red87]

Council Bluffs is a town of over 60,000. Paulina is 1,000, Danville 900. Western Christian pulls from a population base of ver 60,000. Anamosa and Cascade are towns of 2000 or so. That is your advantage.

 

[HawksR1]

I would also like to point out that since Wahlert and Xavier have both been in 3A, neither of them have lost in the postseason to a public school. That is a problem.

Wrong information that you have there re: Wahlert
lost to Western Dubuque in a district game 2012
lost to Norwalk at state 1st round 2009

 

[PrideOrDie30]

Put aside the recruiting talk for a moment. In the case of 1A, CBSA played only ONE 1A opponent all year prior to districts. Half of their schedule was against 3A & 4A opponents. To me that's a bigger advantage than potential/alleged recruiting.

Why not make a rule that your postseason classification is equal to that of the schools who make up the highest % of your regular season schedule? If you're a 1A team by enrollment and play 25% of games against 4A, 25% against 3A, 40% against 2A, & 10% against 1A, then you bump up to 2A since the highest % of games were played against 2A opponents.

However, I'd add the stipulation that if X% (i.e. 25%) of your regular season games are against teams higher than your classification, you bump up one class. So if you're 1A by enrollment and play 75% against 1A teams, 20% against 2A teams, & 5% against 3A teams, then you bump up to 2A since 25% of your games were against teams above your enrollment determined class.

This would treat private & public schools the same.

I understand your theory but wouldn't teams like CBSA manipulate their schedules enough to stay in their enrollment class? I think for some teams it isn't geographically possible to schedule their enrollment class only.. and what about 4A schools that play majority 3A and 2A teams..? would they then move down a class?
Just because a 2A team plays a 4A team does not always mean the 4A team is better.. A lot of bad 4A teams benefit from playing a good 2A team.

 

[LAK26]

I don't think CBSA could manipulate their schedule without switching conferences. And yes, I forgot to mention that it wouldn't allow teams to move down. You do make a solid point about the larger school not always being better. However, I'd expect that to be the exception rather than the rule. No system is going to be perfect. Just tossing around ideas.

 

[GoHawks2009]

I'm just trying to figure out why Western Christian needs kids from Hudson, South Dakota to keep their enrollment numbers up when they can draw from about 10 other surrounding communities including Sioux Center, Boyden, Inwood, and Rock Valley. Hey your own website said it.

 

[mtdew_fever]

Is it possible the member schools of the IAHSAA just haven't pushed the issue? The boys in Boone aren't going to make a change unless the schools bring it up at the annual meetings.

Lazy boys in Boone don't care.....

 

[mtdew_fever]

Hudson to Hull is around 20 miles from each other. Is that too far of a reach for a private school? Hull to Inwood is actually a further drive (23 miles).

I'm just trying to figure out why Western Christian needs kids from Hudson, South Dakota to keep their enrollment numbers up when they can draw from about 10 other surrounding communities including Sioux Center, Boyden, Inwood, and Rock Valley. Hey your own website said it.

 

[basketball777]

In 3A, 2A, and 1A: 4 out of 6 schools are private. 3A will have a private school champion.

If Western Christian and St. Albert win, look for the meltdown to begin. I am calling it early. And this happens every freaking year if private schools have success.

Half of the all the private schools are in the smallest 50 schools in the State. From 2015 back to 1912, a private school has only won 7 out of those 103 years in the smallest classification. (1A or A). There is only one private large school, WDM Dowling, that has won. They have only won 2 times in a 103 years. They have not won since going to 4 classes. Since they started multiple classes 49 years ago in 1967, a private school in 2A has won the state championship 18 times and in 3A a private school has won 16 times. Current year, 2A has 7 private schools out of 94 schools. Also current year, 3A has 3 private schools out of 64 schools. 1A has 24 private out of 164 schools. 17 of those 24 are one of the 50 smallest schools.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

"Never..." did you go to a private school or coach at a private school? If not, how can you make a blanket statement then? Most players going to a private school, pay full tuition in addition to paying for their public schools taxes. No financial help. Those that get help are not athletes only, but anyone going to the private school and is based on income, not talent...So back to why they choose to go to a private school....? Also, as stated by someone else, if you look at students on a private school team, a lot of them went to the school for several years leading up to their high school sports years...

Not even close to as many of the players as public schools. It's basketball. Three transfers make all the difference. Imagine if the three best Chariton kids transferred to Pella to play or The top two MOC kids transferred to Spirit Lake.

Anecdotal evidence of some private schools not having a good number of recruited kids doesn't dispute the fact that most of the good private schools get recruits all the time.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

I'm not going to comment on Xavier, because that clearly is a different story, but please take a look at Western Christian or Pella Christian and look at how many of those kids have been in private schools since they were in Kindergarten. If they recruit, their coaches are geniuses at identifying talent. I am interested to see what happens to Western in the next couple of years with their coach retiring this season, but I think that there is enough talent in NW Iowa (Sioux County) that they won't have much of a drop off.

Again, anecdotal evidence that some schools don't do it does not take away from the fact that a lot of schools find success this way. What percentage of Iowa schools are private? Like 6%? And 75% of the championship teams are private? C'mon.

 

[uniFIGHTuniFIGHT]

public schools recruit just as much anymore

Sort-of in the smaller classes. I don't know how it works with the bigger schools. I played football at A-P and we welcomed 3-4 kids in my 3 years who open-enrolled from other towns in Butler Co (all of them ended up contributing on the field), but I don't think we had a "recruiting staff" or actively pursued anyone. These were athletic kids who were in a school district with a weaker football program. I would assume that happens all over the state where there's an established football program around a lot of weaker overall programs. I think it would impact basketball way moreso than football. (5 on 5 compared to 11 apiece on O/D/special teams)

Most of the successful private schools are in larger Iowa towns and I think that's why they're more successful. More talent to go around. Nobody whines when Bishop-Garrigan does well. If they recruit, I only think it's an issue if they're going to school for free (because of how much the other parents at these schools have to pay for their kids to attend). If there are a lot of boosters paying the way for talented athletes to play HS sports then LOL.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

Some of you have made really good points about the private schools in small towns. It would be extremely hard to pass a rule that only bumps the big city small schools up though.

For fans of Xavier, Wahlert, Western Christian, Iowa City Regina....why wouldn't you want to move up a class? I know it's probably fun the first couple of years to beat up on kids from small towns at the state tournament, but doesn't it kind of take away from the fun knowing you are at a huge advantage? Not only in basketball, but especially in like soccer and track and other sports like that. Happens just as much and the state championships are just a complete joke in some classes.

 

[Smoov4]

The word recruit is thrown around too loosely. If you TRANSFER to school on your own your not being recruited.
Successful programs do not have to RECRUIT and that's true for both Private and Public schools. Some kids just want to go where they know they can be successful and have a good chance at going to state every year. I find it hard to believe many coaches are actively trying to get kids from other schools. So the only way to keep kids from transferring to update the transfer rules. Most parents think about this way before high school and send their kids where they think is best.

 

[basketball777]

Not even close to as many of the players as public schools. It's basketball. Three transfers make all the difference. Imagine if the three best Chariton kids transferred to Pella to play or The top two MOC kids transferred to Spirit Lake.

Anecdotal evidence of some private schools not having a good number of recruited kids doesn't dispute the fact that most of the good private schools get recruits all the time.

Define "Recruited". I know a lot of kids move between public schools and back and fourth between private and public....not sure that is recruiting

 

[SEC66]

That is CRAZY. Good for them though scheduling tough opponents. I wonder how Tri-Center snuck on that schedule.

St Albert played Tricenter at the Mac shootout in the mid American center a big gym with similar background to wells. Good scheduling by them. By the way 2 starters Miller and Carley are Treynor transfers. I'm from Treynor and still rooting for Travis Miller great kid. Who knows maybe Treynor wins 2 or 3 in a row with him instead of 1 or maybe they don't get there at all.

 

[Saywhat2]

Threads like this are why this board sucks right now. 90% of the posts on the board are just petty bitching and pointless arguing. It seems very few people actually want to talk basketball, which is a real shame because there has been some great basketball going on this week. Even in the game threads the same few people continue to completely ignore the games and just bring up the same tired old crap they have been pushing for weeks now. So much whining...the seeding is bad, wah, privates are too good, wah, the refs missed a call, wah, the boys in Boone don't like me, wah. I swear a few of you are just completely ruining this board. How about we actually just talk about the great basketball games we have in store the next couple days. I know that is what I am going to do.

All you have to do is look no farther than who started the thread.