The DM Register has an article about the boys in Boone "looking at options" to eliminate or change the 3 games in 11 days that exist in the current playoff format. This seems to come up quite often, yet nobody seems willing to make a major change in the way business is done to facilitate it. I know there are lots of variables that go into this, but you can't be everything to everyone. We are the only state in our part of the country (meaning surrounding states) that has this set up. An idea I see as a possibility is using week 9 as a playoff game. Many teams get to have their income from a game, all teams qualify, it is seeded and the season is not extended or started earlier. Any thoughts or ideas?
Postseason reform?
- Thread starter TMF24
- Start date
just read the story. Obvious solution is to go back to 16-team brackets for post season. That eliminates a round. Keep 9-game regular season. Past practice tells me that won't happen. An extra home game puts money in each school's pocket. An extra rounds of playoffs puts money into the IHSAA pockets.
Cancel the infatuation with the dome and have semi's and finals outdoors at other college venues. Drake, Wartburg, Coe, Simpson there are a lot of facilities that could handle the crowd. Now move finals to the week of Thanksgiving. Everyone has time to travel to the finals. Run 3 finals each at two of those same facilities on Friday after Thanksgiving.
Switch to an 8 week schedule, and figure out a fair split for the the schools and the state for the first playoff round, or play thanksgiving weekend.
Start a new association that uses common sense and doesn't gouge money, the parochial schools could be the guineas, which would make the public schools happy for a few years. Once public schools see it doesn't take 40 people making 6 figures to schedule a few games and book a few venues and still have an enjoyable experience for their student-athletes, they can make the switch too.
FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY! Some encouraging news from IHSAA assistant executive director Todd Tharp. It won't be changed for the next season. But, most likely we hope for the 2016 season that the IHSAA Board of Directors can approve changes to the playoffs.
IHSAA assistant executive director Todd Tharp said, "We're certainly trying to look at all the options. Whether I can get it accomplished or not, it's my goal or our goal. I would love to see a game played every Friday night of the postseason."
Right now, the first round, second round and quarterfinals will all be figured out in 11 days as has been for a while now. That's four days of rest between the first round and second round and another four days between the second round and quarterfinals. Unacceptable.
Option 2: All the boys in Boone have to do is cut the playoff field from 32 to 16. But, that's the one thing they won't do. 3 games in 11 days in unacceptable and the meaningless first game would then be out. But, anyways right now we got teams of a 2-7 or 3-6 record make the playoffs. So, the association can just make money (bs) and have the team get slaughtered by a 9-0, 8-1 or 7-2 record team. (sigh).
Class 4A Playoff Schedule:
First-Round Games - Wednesday, October 29, 2014 @ 7:00 PM Second-Round Games - Monday, November 3, 2014 @ 7:00 PM Quarterfinal Round Games - Friday, November 7, 2014 @ 7:00 PM SEMIFINAL ROUND at the UNI-Dome (Class 4A) - Friday, November 14, 2014 Game 1 @ 4:06PM - Game 2 @ 7:06PMCHAMPIONSHIP ROUND at the UNI-Dome (Class 4A) - Friday, November 21, 2014 @ 7:06 PM
Illinois High School Athletic Association, Indiana High School Athletic Association and Michigan High School Athletic Association plays most of their playoff games on either Fridays or Saturdays. With that being said, make all rounds of the playoffs on Fridays. Thus meaning, no more three-games in eleven days as other states do not do this. With this change in mind, you would still keep it a nine-game regular season and a 32-playoff bracket format. But, you would have to start the regular season one week earlier than you have in the past.
Another option would be is not to hold the semifinal round game at a collegiate venue. Thus, making them play at the high schools own home venue. Instead just play the State Championship round at the UNI-Dome.
There are plenty of other venues to go to if they cannot secure a deal with UNI-DOME in the future with other collegiate teams:
UNI-DOME in Cedar Falls (home of the Northern Iowa Panthers)Kinnick Stadium in Iowa City (home of the Iowa Hawkeyes)Jack Trice Stadium in Ames (home of the Iowa Cyclones)Drake Stadium in Des Moines (home of the Drake Bulldogs)Chalmers Field in Dubuque (home of the Dubuque Spartans)Rock Bowl in Dubuque (home of the Loras Duhawks)Carlson Stadium in Decorah (home of the Luther Norse)Bill Buxton Stadium in Indianola (home of the Simpson Storm)Walston-Hoover Stadium in Waverly (home of the Wartburg Knights)J. Leslie Rollings Stadium in Storm Lake (home of the Buena Vista Beavers)Ron and Joyce Schipper Stadium in Pella (home of the Central Dutch)
This post was edited on 10/16 8:26 AM by adambadger
IHSAA assistant executive director Todd Tharp said, "We're certainly trying to look at all the options. Whether I can get it accomplished or not, it's my goal or our goal. I would love to see a game played every Friday night of the postseason."
Right now, the first round, second round and quarterfinals will all be figured out in 11 days as has been for a while now. That's four days of rest between the first round and second round and another four days between the second round and quarterfinals. Unacceptable.
Option 2: All the boys in Boone have to do is cut the playoff field from 32 to 16. But, that's the one thing they won't do. 3 games in 11 days in unacceptable and the meaningless first game would then be out. But, anyways right now we got teams of a 2-7 or 3-6 record make the playoffs. So, the association can just make money (bs) and have the team get slaughtered by a 9-0, 8-1 or 7-2 record team. (sigh).
Class 4A Playoff Schedule:
First-Round Games - Wednesday, October 29, 2014 @ 7:00 PM Second-Round Games - Monday, November 3, 2014 @ 7:00 PM Quarterfinal Round Games - Friday, November 7, 2014 @ 7:00 PM SEMIFINAL ROUND at the UNI-Dome (Class 4A) - Friday, November 14, 2014 Game 1 @ 4:06PM - Game 2 @ 7:06PMCHAMPIONSHIP ROUND at the UNI-Dome (Class 4A) - Friday, November 21, 2014 @ 7:06 PM
Illinois High School Athletic Association, Indiana High School Athletic Association and Michigan High School Athletic Association plays most of their playoff games on either Fridays or Saturdays. With that being said, make all rounds of the playoffs on Fridays. Thus meaning, no more three-games in eleven days as other states do not do this. With this change in mind, you would still keep it a nine-game regular season and a 32-playoff bracket format. But, you would have to start the regular season one week earlier than you have in the past.
Another option would be is not to hold the semifinal round game at a collegiate venue. Thus, making them play at the high schools own home venue. Instead just play the State Championship round at the UNI-Dome.
There are plenty of other venues to go to if they cannot secure a deal with UNI-DOME in the future with other collegiate teams:
UNI-DOME in Cedar Falls (home of the Northern Iowa Panthers)Kinnick Stadium in Iowa City (home of the Iowa Hawkeyes)Jack Trice Stadium in Ames (home of the Iowa Cyclones)Drake Stadium in Des Moines (home of the Drake Bulldogs)Chalmers Field in Dubuque (home of the Dubuque Spartans)Rock Bowl in Dubuque (home of the Loras Duhawks)Carlson Stadium in Decorah (home of the Luther Norse)Bill Buxton Stadium in Indianola (home of the Simpson Storm)Walston-Hoover Stadium in Waverly (home of the Wartburg Knights)J. Leslie Rollings Stadium in Storm Lake (home of the Buena Vista Beavers)Ron and Joyce Schipper Stadium in Pella (home of the Central Dutch)
This post was edited on 10/16 8:26 AM by adambadger
I don't see why having the semifinals at the UNI-Dome has anything to do with the Wednesday, Monday, Friday setup of the first 3 rounds.........
I agree though that they can start the season where week zero usually was and work to get all rounds played on Fridays.
For example, instead of the 28th/29th, the season would've started on August 21st/22nd and ended October 17th. The first round would be on the 24th, second on the 31st, Qtrs on the 7th, Semies on the 14th, and Finals on the 21st.
The only issue would be when practices begin. August 4th is the Monday two weeks before the first game would be, however, this past year state baseball didn't wrap up until August 2nd.
Or as another mentioned, go to an 8-game schedule. Teams in the playoffs are guaranteed 9 games and I've heard ideas about the teams that aren't being able to schedule an extra game if they wanted to, in order to play 9. The only difference in the 8 and 9 game schedule would be one less non-district game.
I agree though that they can start the season where week zero usually was and work to get all rounds played on Fridays.
For example, instead of the 28th/29th, the season would've started on August 21st/22nd and ended October 17th. The first round would be on the 24th, second on the 31st, Qtrs on the 7th, Semies on the 14th, and Finals on the 21st.
The only issue would be when practices begin. August 4th is the Monday two weeks before the first game would be, however, this past year state baseball didn't wrap up until August 2nd.
Or as another mentioned, go to an 8-game schedule. Teams in the playoffs are guaranteed 9 games and I've heard ideas about the teams that aren't being able to schedule an extra game if they wanted to, in order to play 9. The only difference in the 8 and 9 game schedule would be one less non-district game.
I think they should go back to the old point system, when you think about it 90% of the 4A Teams are playing all 4A Schools.
Screwloose would know if it is possible for all the 4A schools to avoid playing 3A Schools. However what I am thinking about might work better with districts, so here it goes:
1) Make the last game of the Season a Non-District Game.
a) That way in week 8, you have your playoff field set.
b) Week 9, 1st round of Playoffs would start.
c) The teams that don't make the playoffs, still get to play a 9 game schedule, that gives those teams plenty of time to find
another opponent. or the Iowa Athletic Association pairs those teams with another that did not make the playoffs.
I'm thinking some of this is possible.
Screwloose would know if it is possible for all the 4A schools to avoid playing 3A Schools. However what I am thinking about might work better with districts, so here it goes:
1) Make the last game of the Season a Non-District Game.
a) That way in week 8, you have your playoff field set.
b) Week 9, 1st round of Playoffs would start.
c) The teams that don't make the playoffs, still get to play a 9 game schedule, that gives those teams plenty of time to find
another opponent. or the Iowa Athletic Association pairs those teams with another that did not make the playoffs.
I'm thinking some of this is possible.
The issue isn't the semis, it's the finals. UNI is unwilling to allow use of the Dome after Thanksgiving because of possible FCS playoff games, so if the championships are in the Dome, they have to be the week before. That drives the schedule all the way back to August.
You are right, by starting the season a week earlier, you can avoid the Wednesday-Monday-Friday playoffs. Issues with that are, as you mention, earlier practice dates conflicting with baseball; and with legislative murmurs towards forcing schools to start classes no earlier than September 1, you're looking at two games before school even starts.
Yet other states make this work. I believe Wisconsin runs a 9-game schedule and still has their championships the week before Thanksgiving. Nebraska has their big-school championship on a weeknight during Thanksgiving week, with like a 10-day break after the semis (they may do an 8-game schedule, I'm not sure). As mentioned by others, the Dome is not the only suitable site for the finals - other sites would be available for Thanksgiving weekend, allowing the playoffs to be on Fridays only. I am also intrigued by the "start playoffs on week 9 and let the nonqualifiers play an extra game that night." That is an interesting idea.
This whole argument about the season starting "Week 0" and butting up against baseball holds very little water in my eyes. 85-90% of teams are eliminated from the playoffs in baseball by the week before state. On top of that, when I was in high school, all I would have needed was a week or so to really recharge the batteries. So saying that kids need a longer layoff between seasons is flaccid. Catchers take more wear and tear than any position in baseball, they may be the exception. And pitchers might throw a lot and even those playing quarterback wouldn't have that kind of stress on their arms. The physical nature of football is completely different than baseball. And kids who play baseball, usually do a lot of running, so their bodies are already going to be acclimated to running for football. Granted it is different carrying pads and a helmet, not to mention they'll be accustomed to the summertime heat, if that was an issue. I'd say kids playing baseball are probably in better shape for football anyway. And when you factor the limitations the state has put on two-a-days and no-contact for however long, the issue is moot in my eyes.
So what do we have? Everybody wants to have one game per week in the playoffs. So we know that's going to happen. And we know the state isn't going to reduce the playoff fields back to 16 per class. Are people going to have my take above about the season butting up against baseball and keep the nine game schedule, moving it up or are we going to keep the schedule where it is, eliminating a game from the regular season to get to the same end point?
There's not one school out there that is going to accept losing 11% of their revenue for a home game every other season, no chance at all. There'll be a revolution against Boone before that happens. You think the NCAA has an issue with the Power 5 conferences? Franky's idea for moving a non-district game to Week 9 is a very solid idea. Really, what would happen with this idea is that teams would play three non-district games instead of four in 4A and two instead of three in all the other classes. All non-playoff qualifiers would then be matched-up to ensure everyone a ninth game. They could make a compromise that whoever hosts splits the gate with the traveling team or even let those schools decide who hosts to guarantee those teams get the larger crowd to split from. The state could at least credit the traveling school for fuel costs for that ninth game.
As for every team in 4A ONLY playing 4A? Sure it could be done. Easily. But these schools who play lower class teams from local areas aren't going to give those games up. Those 4A schools only playing 4A schools now? 69.5%(32/46).
I think dropping back to six districts in 4A would be better. Playoff qualifying slotted for the top three teams in each district(18) and the rest of the field open...using the old 4A Point System. A loose pod-style, geographic pairing system and making use of the other college venues for the semifinals would be very intelligent. A lot of these stadium have some kind of field/mondo-turf so the wear and tear is a non-factor. They could easily place these games in venues in between competitors to lessen travel on both, that they normally would have going to Cedar Falls. That's not to say no using the UNI-Dome, you just wouldn't have to rely on it for Saturday as well. This way the Panthers could keep it available if they were fortunate enough to secure hoe games in the FCS Playoffs.
So what do we have? Everybody wants to have one game per week in the playoffs. So we know that's going to happen. And we know the state isn't going to reduce the playoff fields back to 16 per class. Are people going to have my take above about the season butting up against baseball and keep the nine game schedule, moving it up or are we going to keep the schedule where it is, eliminating a game from the regular season to get to the same end point?
There's not one school out there that is going to accept losing 11% of their revenue for a home game every other season, no chance at all. There'll be a revolution against Boone before that happens. You think the NCAA has an issue with the Power 5 conferences? Franky's idea for moving a non-district game to Week 9 is a very solid idea. Really, what would happen with this idea is that teams would play three non-district games instead of four in 4A and two instead of three in all the other classes. All non-playoff qualifiers would then be matched-up to ensure everyone a ninth game. They could make a compromise that whoever hosts splits the gate with the traveling team or even let those schools decide who hosts to guarantee those teams get the larger crowd to split from. The state could at least credit the traveling school for fuel costs for that ninth game.
As for every team in 4A ONLY playing 4A? Sure it could be done. Easily. But these schools who play lower class teams from local areas aren't going to give those games up. Those 4A schools only playing 4A schools now? 69.5%(32/46).
I think dropping back to six districts in 4A would be better. Playoff qualifying slotted for the top three teams in each district(18) and the rest of the field open...using the old 4A Point System. A loose pod-style, geographic pairing system and making use of the other college venues for the semifinals would be very intelligent. A lot of these stadium have some kind of field/mondo-turf so the wear and tear is a non-factor. They could easily place these games in venues in between competitors to lessen travel on both, that they normally would have going to Cedar Falls. That's not to say no using the UNI-Dome, you just wouldn't have to rely on it for Saturday as well. This way the Panthers could keep it available if they were fortunate enough to secure hoe games in the FCS Playoffs.
I FERVENTLY agree about bringing back the point system! That was a great system for balancing seeds based on strength-of-schedule! I've mentioned it before in past years, but I'll say it again....You could adapt the old point system to allow for games against 3A and even 2A schools! Under the old system, you got X amount of points for beating a team with a 5-4 or better record, and less for beating a 4-5 or worse. Great! So let's expand upon that shall we? For beating a 3A team that finishes with say a 7-2 or better record, or an 8-1 2A team, apply the same point values to such a win as beating a 4A of 5-4 or better, the same point values to beating a 4A 4-5 or worse could be applied to a 3A win of between 3-6 and 6-3, or a 2A win between 5-4 and 7-2, while a lesser value could be applied to a win over a 3A of 2-7 or worse, or a 2A 2-7 to 4-5, and a lower value still for beating a 1-8 or worse 2A team. Unfortunately my swiss cheesed brain can't recall at the moment what the old point values were....I'm sure Screwloose would know. In any case, it would still allow for the scheduling flexibility that teams in the western part of the state especially need to lessen travel burdens and costs, while still taking into account schedule strength.
I'm not terribly wild about the idea of moving the season up yet another week as they just did a few years ago when they added the 5th round to the playoffs. If they were gonna do that, then they absolutely need to bring back 2-a-day practices! Players are more and more coming into week 1 out of shape, and poorer in fundamentals than they did before. Week 1 and 2 play has been noticeably sloppier since the elimination of 2-a-days. Teams just don't have enough time to prepare for the season as it is, let alone if they cut out another week of practice! If anything, I think if another week of practices are cut out, there will be MORE injuries, not less, due to players not being properly conditioned.
I think the best thing to do is leave Week 1 as it is now, and eliminate the extra round of playoffs, and go back to the 16-team field. Then you actually have a greater sense of accomplishment in just making the playoffs, rather than practically having it handed to you for winning 2 or 3 games a year. I'm sorry, but teams that are less than 5-4 should NEVER be allowed in the playoffs IMHO. Furthermore, with 4 rounds of playoffs, and games every Friday, you also reduce playoff injuries, AND provide greater travel flexibility by not playing on school nights (as is the case with the Wednesday and Monday games), and teams would be seeded 1-8 on each side of the state, high seed earns home field, or even 1-16 statewide with elimination of east vs west as long as you can play exclusively on Friday, or even Saturday nights.
In any case, I think it's still in the state's best interest to keep the championship game for sure in the dome. As far as the semi's goes, take it or leave it. If the central and western Iowa schools wanted to play closer to, or at home, fine. However, 16 or 17 years ago, it was the complaint by the central and western Iowa schools that the eastern Iowa schools gained an advantage since eastern semi-finalists were already using the dome and growing accustomed to the environment....this is largely why the semi's for BOTH eastern and western Iowa are held there to this day. Back in the 1990's, the dome and Brady Street Stadium in the Quad Cities were about the only places in Iowa that used Astroturf; a MUCH faster surface than grass, and still faster than much of today's field turf or mondoturf. But today, field turf and mondoturf are much more commonplace. It's not so difficult finding a closer facility utilizing such a surface.
The other issue I have with running into Thanksgiving is that means you've have that many more players still in football condition going into basketball and wrestling season....especially for wrestling, it'll only be that much more difficult for football players who wrestle to make weight.
This post was edited on 10/14 10:46 PM by CF_93
The point system is interesting but they're not going to reduce to 16 teams so I don't see messing with some interesting local rivalry games between classes.
I wouldn't want to see the season move forward, because I do believe there should be time between the sports for families, vacations etc... Even though most teams are done early, many of the kids still go to the tournament games and follow friends from other schools. If it were possible, I would eliminate school summer sports completely for a myriad of reasons and give the summers back to the kids/families.
I wrestled and there is no concern with making weight following football. Many of the kids are no longer competing as in the baseball point stated earlier, but more importantly, making weight is crucial nearer the end of the season, not in the first weeks.
Illinois is another state that plays there finals during the week of Thanksgiving. It gives many more people the opportunity to see their friends, relatives and peers play.
The critical piece is the Dome. I think the state has to get away from this as a sole location including for the finals. It could be an option, but the playoffs and a realistic scheduling of games can't hinge on whether or not UNI gets a home game in the playoffs. Playing in the dome just isn't that critical to a successful state tournament. As we could all likely understand, a game that is closer to the fans, will draw more crossover interest for competing teams and their surrounding communities.
I wouldn't want to see the season move forward, because I do believe there should be time between the sports for families, vacations etc... Even though most teams are done early, many of the kids still go to the tournament games and follow friends from other schools. If it were possible, I would eliminate school summer sports completely for a myriad of reasons and give the summers back to the kids/families.
I wrestled and there is no concern with making weight following football. Many of the kids are no longer competing as in the baseball point stated earlier, but more importantly, making weight is crucial nearer the end of the season, not in the first weeks.
Illinois is another state that plays there finals during the week of Thanksgiving. It gives many more people the opportunity to see their friends, relatives and peers play.
The critical piece is the Dome. I think the state has to get away from this as a sole location including for the finals. It could be an option, but the playoffs and a realistic scheduling of games can't hinge on whether or not UNI gets a home game in the playoffs. Playing in the dome just isn't that critical to a successful state tournament. As we could all likely understand, a game that is closer to the fans, will draw more crossover interest for competing teams and their surrounding communities.
The issue with some of these other venues is they've got regular season games going on yet. For example, if the championships were at Kinnick this year, and every even numbered year going forward, Iowa hosts Nebraska on Black Friday. And ISU hosts West Virginia that Saturday. I think it's a virtual guarantee that NO other venue will draw the gate that the dome does. Like it or not, it is the most fan friendly environment at that time of the year. It's 72 degrees, rain, snow, or shine, and it's close to the action. Furthermore, what's so wrong with continuing to host it in Cedar Falls? Practically every other sport apart from Volleyball and Football are held in Des Moines. The world doesn't have to revolve around the city of Des Moines.
There's also softball and cross country in Fort Dodge. I think Golf rotates every year.
But I agree that the UNI-Dome is the best place for the final four. There was snow on the ground by championship Friday and it was ridiculously cold. You only lose attendance (money) when you put a game up against the elements.
The Point System? What would make you think I remember the Point System, CF_93?
It basically worked like this...
Your team received 25 points for playing a game. On top of that, you received an additional 20 points for every victory. Then you'd get an additional 5 bonus points for every one of your opponents who finished over .500(5-4 and better). For teams played from a lower classes, you were docked 5 points for every level below 4A. So 3A was -5, 2A was -10, etc.
So 45-50 points for wins, 25-30 point for losses.
We've discussed the ladder system for opponent's bonus points numerous times. If I were to re-implement the Point System I'd do it as so...
Wins
51 pts...4A opponents, 8-1 to 6-3
48 pts...4A opponents, 5-4 to 3-6
45 pts...4A opponents, 2-7 to 0-9
46 pts...3A opponents, 8-1 or 7-2
43 pts...3A opponents, 6-3 to 4-5
40 pts...3A opponents, 3-6 to 0-9
Subtract 5 more points from the 3A totals for 2A opponents, 10 points for 1A, etc.
Losses
46 pts...4A opponents, 9-0 to 7-2
43 pts...4A opponents, 6-3 to 4-5
40 pts...4A opponents, 3-6 to 1-8
41 pts...3A opponents, 9-0 or 8-1
38 pts...3A opponents, 7-2 to 5-4
35 pts...3A opponents, 4-5 to 1-8
Subtract 5 more points from the 3A totals for 2A opponents, 10 points for 1A, etc.
How's that work for ya, CF?
It basically worked like this...
Your team received 25 points for playing a game. On top of that, you received an additional 20 points for every victory. Then you'd get an additional 5 bonus points for every one of your opponents who finished over .500(5-4 and better). For teams played from a lower classes, you were docked 5 points for every level below 4A. So 3A was -5, 2A was -10, etc.
So 45-50 points for wins, 25-30 point for losses.
We've discussed the ladder system for opponent's bonus points numerous times. If I were to re-implement the Point System I'd do it as so...
Wins
51 pts...4A opponents, 8-1 to 6-3
48 pts...4A opponents, 5-4 to 3-6
45 pts...4A opponents, 2-7 to 0-9
46 pts...3A opponents, 8-1 or 7-2
43 pts...3A opponents, 6-3 to 4-5
40 pts...3A opponents, 3-6 to 0-9
Subtract 5 more points from the 3A totals for 2A opponents, 10 points for 1A, etc.
Losses
46 pts...4A opponents, 9-0 to 7-2
43 pts...4A opponents, 6-3 to 4-5
40 pts...4A opponents, 3-6 to 1-8
41 pts...3A opponents, 9-0 or 8-1
38 pts...3A opponents, 7-2 to 5-4
35 pts...3A opponents, 4-5 to 1-8
Subtract 5 more points from the 3A totals for 2A opponents, 10 points for 1A, etc.
How's that work for ya, CF?
I can't believe all the wasted electrons written above on how to "solve" this problem. All the boys in Boone have to do is cut the playoff field from 32 to 16. But that's the one thing they WON'T do, and will instead "look at other options", such as taking away regular season games (and the money the home teams make off those games to support their athletic programs).
I can't beleive the schools put up with this nonsense. Every year we hear more and more about injuries in football and what we can do to make it safer, and these goons make 17 year old boys play 3 games in 11 days. I cannot think of anything more disgusting than putting players at risk just so a 3 win team can get slaughtered by a one loss team in a MEANINGLESS first round game -- all for the financial benefit of the association.
Verbum Dei
AMDG
I can't beleive the schools put up with this nonsense. Every year we hear more and more about injuries in football and what we can do to make it safer, and these goons make 17 year old boys play 3 games in 11 days. I cannot think of anything more disgusting than putting players at risk just so a 3 win team can get slaughtered by a one loss team in a MEANINGLESS first round game -- all for the financial benefit of the association.
Verbum Dei
AMDG
After I read the thread, I think these are the best ideas:
6-8 team 4A districts or 4-8 team/ 2-7 team districts until 2 more can be added. I think they need to be in competitive tiers where possible.
Screwloose's new improved point system and 3 team qualifiers...only if the 4A schools are given a one or two game lower class exemption. If you are in the 3 main urban areas in Iowa it is easy to schedule another non-district game in your backyard but I just think the isolated 4A schools need some flexibility for non-district games.
Moving the first game to week "0"
Using outdoor neutral small college sites for the semifinal games. The biggest issue in outdoor November games for the players in Iowa is the playing surface not the temperatures. Playing an outdoor game on field turf would be helpful to the teams involved.
6-8 team 4A districts or 4-8 team/ 2-7 team districts until 2 more can be added. I think they need to be in competitive tiers where possible.
Screwloose's new improved point system and 3 team qualifiers...only if the 4A schools are given a one or two game lower class exemption. If you are in the 3 main urban areas in Iowa it is easy to schedule another non-district game in your backyard but I just think the isolated 4A schools need some flexibility for non-district games.
Moving the first game to week "0"
Using outdoor neutral small college sites for the semifinal games. The biggest issue in outdoor November games for the players in Iowa is the playing surface not the temperatures. Playing an outdoor game on field turf would be helpful to the teams involved.
Good ideas. I also think quarterfinals should be played at pre determined neutral sites, similar to substate bball locations. Nowadays a quarterfinal game should never be played on a chewed up field. Im familiar with the eastern side, you have Kingston, Dalzell, Linn Mar, Brady St, ICW now has turf, Dome, etc....They could all be pre determined quarterfinal sites and all with field turf. No reason to play a game of that importance on a beat up field with all of the quality facilities around now.
Only problem with six-eight team districts is that you would HAVE to group the bigger metro areas together in order that they all play each other. This would mean all the Des Moines Public schools and all the Linn County schools in one district. Being the bored human being I am this afternoon, I put this all together along with non-district opponents...
DISTRICT 1
WDM Valley (WDM Dowling / Urbandale)
SC East (SC Heelan* / Ankeny)
SC North (LeMars* / Fort Dodge)
SC West (Sergeant Bluff-Luton* / Fort Dodge)
CB Jefferson (Harlan* / DM Roosevelt)
CB Lewis Central (Glenwood* /DM Hoover )
CB Lincoln (DM Lincoln / Urbandale)
Waukee (WDM Dowling / Johnston)
DISTRICT 2
WDM Dowling (WDM Valley / Waukee)
Urbandale (WDM Valley / CB Lincoln)
Johnston (Waukee / SE Polk)
DM East (Ank Centennial / Indianola)
DM Hoover (CB Lewis Central / SE Polk)
DM Lincoln (CB Lincoln / Ank Centennial)
DM North (Ankeny / Mason City)
DM Roosevelt (CB Jefferson / Ames)
DISTRICT 3
Ames (IC High / DM Roosevelt)
Ankeny (SC East / DM North)
Ankeny Centennial (DM East / DM Lincoln)
Fort Dodge (SC North / SC West)
Marshalltown (Wat West / Ottumwa)
Mason City (Wat East / DM North)
Indianola (DM East / Ottumwa)
SE Polk (Johnston / DM Hoover)
DISTRICT 4
Cedar Falls (IC West / IC High)
Wat East (Mason City / Dub Hemsptead)
Wat West (Marshalltown / Dub Senior)
CR Jefferson (Clinton / Dav West)
CR Kennedy (Pleasant Valley / IC West)
CR Prairie (Burlington / Dav Central)
CR Washington (Bettendorf / Muscatine)
Linn-Mar (North Scott / Pleasant Valley)
DISTRICT 5
Bettendorf (D6: Dav Central / Dav Assumption* / CR Washington)
Pleasant Valley (D6: Muscatine / Linn-Mar / CR Kennedy)
North Scott (D6: Ottumwa / Muscatine / Linn-Mar)
Clinton (D6: Dav West / Central Clinton* / CR Jefferson)
Dub Hempstead (D6: IC High / Dub Wahlert* / Wat East)
Dub Senior (D6: IC West / Dub Wahlert* / Wat West)
Dav North (D6: Burlington / Dav Central / Dav West)
DISTRICT 6
Burlington (D5: Dav North / Keokuk* / CR Prarie)
Ottumwa (D5: North Scott / Marshalltown / Indianola)
Muscatine (D5: Pleasant Valley / North Scott / CR Washington)
IC High (D5: Dub Hempstead / Cedar Falls / Ames)
IC West (D5: Dub Senior / Cedar Falls / CR Kennedy)
Dav Central (D5: Bettendorf / Dav North / CR Prairie)
Dav West (D5: Clinton / Dav North / CR Jefferson)
This post was edited on 10/16 3:25 AM by screwloose
DISTRICT 1
WDM Valley (WDM Dowling / Urbandale)
SC East (SC Heelan* / Ankeny)
SC North (LeMars* / Fort Dodge)
SC West (Sergeant Bluff-Luton* / Fort Dodge)
CB Jefferson (Harlan* / DM Roosevelt)
CB Lewis Central (Glenwood* /DM Hoover )
CB Lincoln (DM Lincoln / Urbandale)
Waukee (WDM Dowling / Johnston)
DISTRICT 2
WDM Dowling (WDM Valley / Waukee)
Urbandale (WDM Valley / CB Lincoln)
Johnston (Waukee / SE Polk)
DM East (Ank Centennial / Indianola)
DM Hoover (CB Lewis Central / SE Polk)
DM Lincoln (CB Lincoln / Ank Centennial)
DM North (Ankeny / Mason City)
DM Roosevelt (CB Jefferson / Ames)
DISTRICT 3
Ames (IC High / DM Roosevelt)
Ankeny (SC East / DM North)
Ankeny Centennial (DM East / DM Lincoln)
Fort Dodge (SC North / SC West)
Marshalltown (Wat West / Ottumwa)
Mason City (Wat East / DM North)
Indianola (DM East / Ottumwa)
SE Polk (Johnston / DM Hoover)
DISTRICT 4
Cedar Falls (IC West / IC High)
Wat East (Mason City / Dub Hemsptead)
Wat West (Marshalltown / Dub Senior)
CR Jefferson (Clinton / Dav West)
CR Kennedy (Pleasant Valley / IC West)
CR Prairie (Burlington / Dav Central)
CR Washington (Bettendorf / Muscatine)
Linn-Mar (North Scott / Pleasant Valley)
DISTRICT 5
Bettendorf (D6: Dav Central / Dav Assumption* / CR Washington)
Pleasant Valley (D6: Muscatine / Linn-Mar / CR Kennedy)
North Scott (D6: Ottumwa / Muscatine / Linn-Mar)
Clinton (D6: Dav West / Central Clinton* / CR Jefferson)
Dub Hempstead (D6: IC High / Dub Wahlert* / Wat East)
Dub Senior (D6: IC West / Dub Wahlert* / Wat West)
Dav North (D6: Burlington / Dav Central / Dav West)
DISTRICT 6
Burlington (D5: Dav North / Keokuk* / CR Prarie)
Ottumwa (D5: North Scott / Marshalltown / Indianola)
Muscatine (D5: Pleasant Valley / North Scott / CR Washington)
IC High (D5: Dub Hempstead / Cedar Falls / Ames)
IC West (D5: Dub Senior / Cedar Falls / CR Kennedy)
Dav Central (D5: Bettendorf / Dav North / CR Prairie)
Dav West (D5: Clinton / Dav North / CR Jefferson)
This post was edited on 10/16 3:25 AM by screwloose
Really, screw? You pitch a hissy about Hoover & East not playing, then you don't pair Dav North & West together for a non-district game. Shame on you😉
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If you look, I had it for one and not the other...even worse on me. But I would have that match-up of course.
Other words you could use to help accentuate your over-dramatic comments:
heinous
horrendous
terrible
despicable
villainous
dastardly
appalling
deplorable
etc....
So how's that research coming on all the injuries that occur in the first 3 rounds of the playoffs since they moved to 32 games?........Getting right on that, aren't we?
Clearly, it needs to change, but let's act like the State is guilty of domestic assault, or worse..........texting while driving.
P.S. Yes, I've heard people try to equate the sole act of texting while driving to murder. Happy thoughts.
It's all about the MONEY for the state.
They moved from 16 to 32 teams in the playoffs, not so that more teams would get to experience the playoffs (as they would like to tell you) but instead so that they would get the gate for another whole set of games in each class. $$$ Obviously, they'll never go back to 16 again, it would cost them too much money. $$$
They switched the structure of the playoffs to no longer be an established bracket (with sister districts) but instead to a system where the playoff games are set from game to game. They said they did this to "cut down on the travel" for the teams. They were just thinking of the kids and coaches, right? NO, reality is, they know if the games are local, they are more likely to get casual fans to show up meaning more gate money for the state. $$$
If they change to a Friday, Friday, Friday, Friday, Friday setup as opposed to Wednesday, Monday, Friday, Friday, Friday setup, they'll say they listened to the coaches and thought about player safety. Reality, they have figured it out, more people show up for Friday games then Wednesday and Monday games meaning more gate sales and more money for the state. $$$
When change is suggested, the state first considers what they will gain from the change before thinking about players, coaches, media, fans etc. What a joke!
They moved from 16 to 32 teams in the playoffs, not so that more teams would get to experience the playoffs (as they would like to tell you) but instead so that they would get the gate for another whole set of games in each class. $$$ Obviously, they'll never go back to 16 again, it would cost them too much money. $$$
They switched the structure of the playoffs to no longer be an established bracket (with sister districts) but instead to a system where the playoff games are set from game to game. They said they did this to "cut down on the travel" for the teams. They were just thinking of the kids and coaches, right? NO, reality is, they know if the games are local, they are more likely to get casual fans to show up meaning more gate money for the state. $$$
If they change to a Friday, Friday, Friday, Friday, Friday setup as opposed to Wednesday, Monday, Friday, Friday, Friday setup, they'll say they listened to the coaches and thought about player safety. Reality, they have figured it out, more people show up for Friday games then Wednesday and Monday games meaning more gate sales and more money for the state. $$$
When change is suggested, the state first considers what they will gain from the change before thinking about players, coaches, media, fans etc. What a joke!
I'm on board with everything MarionHawk just said except one thing, and that's a technicality...
Originally posted by MarionHawk:
When change is suggested, the state first considers what they will gain from the change before thinking about players, coaches, media, fans etc. What a joke!
...This not so much a joke as it is hypocrisy. I guess the joke would be their label of concern, compassion, understanding and fairness.
Originally posted by MarionHawk:
When change is suggested, the state first considers what they will gain from the change before thinking about players, coaches, media, fans etc. What a joke!
...This not so much a joke as it is hypocrisy. I guess the joke would be their label of concern, compassion, understanding and fairness.
Screwloose, Thanks for the suggested change, yes, hypocrisy is a much better word to use than joke!
And to further the discussion on hypocrisy, I would suggest those that would like to hear more to listen to the attached podcast from last night between the sports writers at the Gazette and Coach Bob Forsyth of Linn-Mar. It wasn't mean to be a discussion on the state but that's where it went. It's a good listen from a coach's point of view.
Podcast
And to further the discussion on hypocrisy, I would suggest those that would like to hear more to listen to the attached podcast from last night between the sports writers at the Gazette and Coach Bob Forsyth of Linn-Mar. It wasn't mean to be a discussion on the state but that's where it went. It's a good listen from a coach's point of view.
Podcast
So you suggest that they go back to 16 teams for the playoffs and renew the complaints for the several 7-2 and 6-3 teams that miss the playoffs?
24 teams would be nice, but that still means some teams are playing Wednesday while the 1 seeds get a bye. How many coaches would be fine with that? If it's a vast majority....then what are we talking about?
The other thing is, since everything the State does is about money, whether they add games or remove them or change the days to all Fridays, etc......are you basically saying that there is absolutely nothing they can do that will satisfy you because you know (you know) that they're only doing it for the money?
Debating whether the state should go back to 16 teams per class is a moot point, because that will NEVER happen. They're never going to fall back to 24 either. For one, they say teams receiving a bye would have too great an advantage and it wouldn't be fair for those teams who would have to play them afterwards. This is known by me because I have e-mailed the IHSAA about this very question and that's the answer I got back.
Fact of the matter is, they should never have expanded to 32 to begin with. And anybody who defends the IHSAA about expanding to include more teams in the "playoff party" is fooling themselves. Of course it's about the money. It was from the beginning.
Now this question about complaints of 7-2 and 6-3 teams not making it? It's valid. But teams EARNED the playoffs before expansion. If you happened to be excluded with that kind of record, it sucks. But to expand the field so these extra teams can get in at the cost of adding undeserving 3-6, 2-7 and even a 1-8 team is absolutely stupid! How the IHSAA can go to the National Federation of High School Athletics and say, "Hey, we had a 1-8 team make the playoffs," shows they are morally incorruptible, money-driven leeches.
A sub-.500 team going to the playoffs? When you actually think about it, it's sickening. How weak has our society gotten in this public display of everyone's a winner and you should get a medal or ribbon for your sub-mediocrity, just because you tried? I'd venture to say other states look at our playoff system and laugh their asses off. And those who don't probably shake their heads in disbelief.
Everything they do is going to be for their benefit, not the players or coaches and definitely not the schools. The fact they've proposed snaking every single member of their Association out of 11% of their regular season gate every two years shows this...clear as day in black and white. The Fridays WILL happen, but don't go waving the banner of player safety around those offices in Boone, unless that word safety starts with a dollar sign($afety).
Fact of the matter is, they should never have expanded to 32 to begin with. And anybody who defends the IHSAA about expanding to include more teams in the "playoff party" is fooling themselves. Of course it's about the money. It was from the beginning.
Now this question about complaints of 7-2 and 6-3 teams not making it? It's valid. But teams EARNED the playoffs before expansion. If you happened to be excluded with that kind of record, it sucks. But to expand the field so these extra teams can get in at the cost of adding undeserving 3-6, 2-7 and even a 1-8 team is absolutely stupid! How the IHSAA can go to the National Federation of High School Athletics and say, "Hey, we had a 1-8 team make the playoffs," shows they are morally incorruptible, money-driven leeches.
A sub-.500 team going to the playoffs? When you actually think about it, it's sickening. How weak has our society gotten in this public display of everyone's a winner and you should get a medal or ribbon for your sub-mediocrity, just because you tried? I'd venture to say other states look at our playoff system and laugh their asses off. And those who don't probably shake their heads in disbelief.
Everything they do is going to be for their benefit, not the players or coaches and definitely not the schools. The fact they've proposed snaking every single member of their Association out of 11% of their regular season gate every two years shows this...clear as day in black and white. The Fridays WILL happen, but don't go waving the banner of player safety around those offices in Boone, unless that word safety starts with a dollar sign($afety).
DarkThunder,
I think you took a few things out of context here.
I did not suggest they move back to 16 teams from 32 teams. My point was questioning the motive of the iahsaa for doing so. They would suggest it was to allow more teams to "experience" the playoffs, I think their higher motive was to create more revenue opportunities for the state.
As for your last comments, I'm just saying this group has lost credibility with me by taking away things like two-a-days and helmets in 7 on 7 competitions for "player safety" reasons. But yet, they won't change the fact that they force kids to play 3 games in a 10 day span (which is an obvious player safety concern).
There's a lot of changes they could make, such as allowing two a days (where one practice has to be in shorts and a t-shirt) and where the other can be in full pads. Or even allow it to be where one of the practices is film study only. Changes like this would create them no extra income and would satisfy me.
Fact is, my daughter is in the marching band and has 8 hour practices per day the week before school starts but the football team is held to a 4 hour time limit per day by the state. And that four hours can't be split up. And no coach is dumb enough to hold an actual four hour practice.
I think you took a few things out of context here.
I did not suggest they move back to 16 teams from 32 teams. My point was questioning the motive of the iahsaa for doing so. They would suggest it was to allow more teams to "experience" the playoffs, I think their higher motive was to create more revenue opportunities for the state.
As for your last comments, I'm just saying this group has lost credibility with me by taking away things like two-a-days and helmets in 7 on 7 competitions for "player safety" reasons. But yet, they won't change the fact that they force kids to play 3 games in a 10 day span (which is an obvious player safety concern).
There's a lot of changes they could make, such as allowing two a days (where one practice has to be in shorts and a t-shirt) and where the other can be in full pads. Or even allow it to be where one of the practices is film study only. Changes like this would create them no extra income and would satisfy me.
Fact is, my daughter is in the marching band and has 8 hour practices per day the week before school starts but the football team is held to a 4 hour time limit per day by the state. And that four hours can't be split up. And no coach is dumb enough to hold an actual four hour practice.
The disturbing trend I think we're looking at is going to something like the Indiana football playoff. You wanna talk about a JOKE, just look at the Indiana system! The regular season is completely marginalized and irrelevant! All teams make the playoffs. As if that weren't bad enough, then rather than use the regular season to seed teams, or pair them geographically, no! They use a damn lottery system to pair up teams randomly! God help us if our system ever stoops to a level like this!
http://www.ihsaa.org/Portals/0/ihsaa/documents/news%20media/2014-15/101214FootballDraw.pdf
http://www.ihsaa.org/Portals/0/ihsaa/documents/news%20media/2014-15/101214FootballDraw.pdf
Well about the one thing they DON'T do is have their playoffs across classes (example 2A vs. 4A). So a hypothetical Regina vs. Dowling in the playoffs could never happen in such a format. Their 6A is the top 32 largest schools. So hypothetically, if they had a team from Gary, IN, who may have been the worst team in 6A, they could play a nearly as bad team from down near Louisville or Cincinnatti if they had the luck of the draw. No reward whatsoever for being the best regular season team, and no geographic pairing either. That would be like if one of the Sioux City schools were the lowest ranked team in the state, playing like a Burlington if they were the next lowest team in the state! Without a doubt the most senseless drawing of any state I've ever heard! The Iowa football playoffs may be far from perfect, but they're the gold standard compared to Indiana!
This post was edited on 10/16 11:06 PM by CF_93
This post was edited on 10/16 11:06 PM by CF_93
While Indiana's lottery system is dumb, it's not a statewide draw. They draw ping-pong balls for pairings within each of eight geographical regions in each class.
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