Playoff Discussion

[ghost80]

Gee, I wonder how I could have gotten the impression O'Toole had 10 carries in the second half?

Lesson learned.....why trust a poorly written comment by a SE homer since SE did WIN this game so there are stats available on QuickStats? I'll make sure to check next time stats are being thrown around about a SE WIN.


CP84 posted on 10/14/2014...
Spook, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the two points came from a botched extra point attempt. Logan Fear and Naughton got plenty of second half carries and I believe O'Toole had fewer than 10. SE could have scored 100 in that game if they wanted.

 

[spook78]

you have logic? your name is that of a comic book character.

 

[captainamerica18]

I'm not sure I follow. See! This is what I'm talking about. It's tough...

 

[warriors dad]

If it wasn't for cornfields, many of us would be in dire straits! Apparantly you haven't driven outside F.D. much but most smaller towns survive on them cornfields. Id rather sit next to a cornfield and watch football on real grass any day (or night) so if you don't like SEV facilitys stay the hell home!!!

 

[Eleven30]

Can't believe I'm actually defending St. Eds, but they did not purposely run up the score that night. Newman is terrible, and there were a lot of strange circumstances throughout that game that led to the lopsided final score.

The 2 point conversion was on a botched extra point attempt (has already been mentioned). Any posts that attempt to use that situation to imply "running up the score" are beyond laughable.

 

[Cardinal2012]

Originally posted by warriors dad:
If it wasn't for cornfields, many of us would be in dire straits! Apparantly you haven't driven outside F.D. much but most smaller towns survive on them cornfields. Id rather sit next to a cornfield and watch football on real grass any day (or night) so if you don't like SEV facilitys stay the hell home!!!

The way it should be.

 

[DarkThunder#61]

Originally posted by spook78:

stating facts is as far from pot stirring as it gets

Oh I wouldn't say that....

 

[DarkThunder#61]

Originally posted by ghost80:
Gee, I wonder how I could have gotten the impression O'Toole had 10 carries in the second half?

Lesson learned.....why trust a poorly written comment by a SE homer since SE did WIN this game so there are stats available on QuickStats? I'll make sure to check next time stats are being thrown around about a SE WIN.


CP84 posted on 10/14/2014...
Spook, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the two points came from a botched extra point attempt. Logan Fear and Naughton got plenty of second half carries and I believe O'Toole had fewer than 10. SE could have scored 100 in that game if they wanted.

Well that's what you get for making assumptions, then huh...............

Sometimes it's better to get clarification first. Like you said, all you had to do was look up Quikstats. But then........that would be something I would do.

 

[DarkThunder#61]

Originally posted by warriors dad:
Id rather sit next to a cornfield and watch football on real grass any day (or night) so if you don't like SEV facilities stay the hell home!!!

Yeah, I get where you're coming from but....not the best threat.

Just say you prefer your set-up.

 

[DarkThunder#61]

Originally posted by Cardinal2012:

Originally posted by warriors dad:
If it wasn't for cornfields, many of us would be in dire straits! Apparantly you haven't driven outside F.D. much but most smaller towns survive on them cornfields. Id rather sit next to a cornfield and watch football on real grass any day (or night) so if you don't like SEV facilitys stay the hell home!!!

The way it should be.

Meh....

 

[Bringin the Heat]

Here's the exact playoff pairing rules per the IAHSAA


1st Round:
a 125 mile limitation for 1st round games is in place for classes 3A-A and 8man.
District Champions and District Runner-Ups have the opportunity to host
Reasonable attempts will be made to find non-district playoff opponents for 1st round games, but district matchups could reoccur if an opponent cannot be found within the 125 mile distance.
The board of control will determine the pairings. The Board based on geographic location of all qualifying schools will pair the district champion of one district with the 4th place team from another district, the runner-up of one district playing the third place team of another district in the first round contest.


So if there is a correctly seeded non-district team within 125 miles of the host team, then they will NOT have to play an in-district rematch. From current standings, and some educated guesses for week 8 & 9 results, this is what I have calculated...


Round 1 Matchups
1 seeds v. 4 seeds
IKM-Manning v Woodward Granger or DMC
West Lyon v. HMS - No other 4 seed is within 125 miles of West Lyon, so must play in district rematch (Only rematch I have found necessary in 1st round) [/I]Would change if Lake Mills beats Emmetsburg for the 3 seed.
St. Ansgar v S. Hamilton - educated guess on S.Ham beating SCC
South Winn v Alburnett
W. Branch v Sigourney-Keota
IC Regina v Sumner Fredericksburg
St Edmond v Lake Mills
Van Meter v Underwood - only 1 seed close enough to Underwood.

2 seeds v 3 seeds
AHST v Madrid - only 3 seed close enough to Avoca
Hinton v Emmetsburg
Pocahontas Area v Western Christian
Dike NH v Bellevue
N. Cedar v Hudson - only 3 seed close enough to Stanwood
Pella Christian v Central Decatur
Ogden v Eddyville Blakesburg Fremont
Panorama v OA-BCIG

All of these games are under the state mandated 125 miles one way, and all games are correct seeds playing. There really aren't a lot of alternate matchups that could happen, unless a different team makes it into the playoffs, obviously.

 

[ghost80]

Sure Thunder, validating in Quickstats is the answer assuming the team in question has complied and entered their stats.

 

[spook78]

Nightfever.
Glad to see you get involved. But you need practice on your bashing career.
Do you think the skating rink has wheels under it? It's called a roller skate rink, not a rolling skating rink.
Also you wrote " SE over the Jags 44-7. SE's score a 2 pt conversion late on a botched FG ". that would be a heck of a play to watch. I suggest a "football for dummies" book and go to the section about when a 2 pt conversion can be attempted.

 

[Pinehawk]

Originally posted by DarkThunder#61:

Originally posted by Pinehawk:

Originally posted by cidhawkeye:
Good research thunder, missed that one. L&M must have been running a 3-3-5 or something that game. Took a fumble recovery for a TD to get to 70. Did see they got 4 kickers into the game so the starter wasn't able to complete a 2 pt conversion, starting running back got 3 carries, backup qb didn't even get in as they went to 3rd string. 29 offensive plays 9 touchdowns so I guess a game can get out of hand, I would be surprised if a single starter saw the field in the 2nd half even on special teams. Most if not all didn't see the field in the 2nd qtr. So I stand corrected on this one, missed one game in the 2011 year.

But, the point still stands. Regina develops it's underclassmen far more than many across the state do. (Because they can......)
That results in them being penalized in the computer rankings (don't care) (offensive and defensive averages) and not leading the state in individual stat categories...but it has translated to wins (so that is your secret. Good thing every other school can copy that and then they'll all have similar success too...............). And, that depth is shown through having 4 different starting QB's and 4 different 1st string running backs over their 4 straight State Championships. (except this year...what happened, no CJ Beathard situation at Regina?

)[/B]

So anyways, Iowa City Regina has 63 kids on their roster (give or take for possible counting error, not recounting)......13 are freshmen. So that leaves you with 50 sophomore-through-seniors on your roster.

Now these next set of numbers were compiled at the beginning of the year so it is possible they're different by now, but would you like to know how many teams in 1A have over 50 kids total from freshman-senior out for football?

Eight (nine including Regina now). 6 of those 9 made the playoffs last year.

Not including Regina, know how many are still at 50 or more when you take out their freshmen numbers?...........Two.

(Dike-New Hartford had 64 total and 50 10th and above, Western Christian had 53 from 10th and above. Again these numbers were compiled around the beginning of the year, so several teams could've added more numbers, including freshmen since then.)

Maybe you just stumbled upon one of the big secrets to success. Participation.

 

[rkhemp]

Originally posted by Pinehawk:

Originally posted by DarkThunder#61:

Originally posted by Pinehawk:

Originally posted by cidhawkeye:
Good research thunder, missed that one. L&M must have been running a 3-3-5 or something that game. Took a fumble recovery for a TD to get to 70. Did see they got 4 kickers into the game so the starter wasn't able to complete a 2 pt conversion, starting running back got 3 carries, backup qb didn't even get in as they went to 3rd string. 29 offensive plays 9 touchdowns so I guess a game can get out of hand, I would be surprised if a single starter saw the field in the 2nd half even on special teams. Most if not all didn't see the field in the 2nd qtr. So I stand corrected on this one, missed one game in the 2011 year.

But, the point still stands. Regina develops it's underclassmen far more than many across the state do. (Because they can......)
That results in them being penalized in the computer rankings (don't care) (offensive and defensive averages) and not leading the state in individual stat categories...but it has translated to wins (so that is your secret. Good thing every other school can copy that and then they'll all have similar success too...............). And, that depth is shown through having 4 different starting QB's and 4 different 1st string running backs over their 4 straight State Championships. (except this year...what happened, no CJ Beathard situation at Regina?

)[/B]

So anyways, Iowa City Regina has 63 kids on their roster (give or take for possible counting error, not recounting)......13 are freshmen. So that leaves you with 50 sophomore-through-seniors on your roster.

Now these next set of numbers were compiled at the beginning of the year so it is possible they're different by now, but would you like to know how many teams in 1A have over 50 kids total from freshman-senior out for football?

Eight (nine including Regina now). 6 of those 9 made the playoffs last year.

Not including Regina, know how many are still at 50 or more when you take out their freshmen numbers?...........Two.

(Dike-New Hartford had 64 total and 50 10th and above, Western Christian had 53 from 10th and above. Again these numbers were compiled around the beginning of the year, so several teams could've added more numbers, including freshmen since then.)

Maybe you just stumbled upon one of the big secrets to success. Participation.

Maybe that secret to success should be added to the classification formula. Participation rates.

 

[Cardinal2012]

That is a horrible idea. Some coaches would find a way to "weed out" the players that aren't going to contribute so that they have low participation rates. Don't even suggest punishing schools because they have kids that want to play a game.

 

[Bringin the Heat]

Originally posted by Cardinal2012:
That is a horrible idea. Some coaches would find a way to "weed out" the players that aren't going to contribute so that they have low participation rates. Don't even suggest punishing schools because they have kids that want to play a game.

EXACTLY!! Maybe some schools need to work on recruiting the kids who ALREADY go to their school rather than worrying about the ones who they want to go there.

 

[rkhemp]

Perhaps there are more at risk students at some schools than others. Maybe there isn't the type of athlete at that school to recruit. Not every kid in a school can be a football star, well at most schools.

I apologize for being sarcastic in my last point, and participation plays a part, but just because you have more kids out, doesn't mean you have more football players out. Not trying to call a school out and I picked one that Regina played, but if Columbus Junction had 100% participation from their students in football, could they compete with Regina?

 

[BlameIt]

Originally posted by Bringin the Heat:



Round 1 Matchups
1 seeds v. 4 seeds

W. Branch v Sigourney-Keota

2 seeds v 3 seeds

Ogden v Eddyville Blakesburg Fremont


.

assuming SK and EBF both finish 4-2 district record, SK will be the #3 seed because they defeated EBF.

Its pretty reasonable to think they both will finish 4-2.

SK plays Columbus Jct and West Marshall (2 worst teams in the league)
EBF plays Highland and CJ (Highland may give them a scare)

 

[acoach#5]

At least HMS wouldn't have to make this trip twice since they are home when they play them in the final district game. One trip is bad enough.

 

[jen44]

I understand how one seeds and two seats won't play until the second round and and a district champions will not play each other until the quarterfinals. I understand one seeds and three seeds can also play in the first round along with getting rid of the sister districts. I'm guessing they want to match up one seeds and four seeds first-round and two and three seeds for us for first-round unless they are further than 125 miles. My question is are they going to just have the closest teams play each other or are they going to have teams from different districts play each other if they are under the 125 miles? Otherwise it wouldn't just be district teams playing each other in the playoffs?

 

[DarkThunder#61]

Originally posted by ghost80:
Sure Thunder, validating in Quickstats is the answer assuming the team in question has complied and entered their stats.

It is, but then Quikstats isn't the only media outlet that provides stats, now is it......

It simply serves as a database for high school sports statistics. Like BCMoore's rankings.

 

[DarkThunder#61]

Originally posted by Pinehawk:

Originally posted by DarkThunder#61:

Originally posted by Pinehawk:

Originally posted by cidhawkeye:
Good research thunder, missed that one. L&M must have been running a 3-3-5 or something that game. Took a fumble recovery for a TD to get to 70. Did see they got 4 kickers into the game so the starter wasn't able to complete a 2 pt conversion, starting running back got 3 carries, backup qb didn't even get in as they went to 3rd string. 29 offensive plays 9 touchdowns so I guess a game can get out of hand, I would be surprised if a single starter saw the field in the 2nd half even on special teams. Most if not all didn't see the field in the 2nd qtr. So I stand corrected on this one, missed one game in the 2011 year.

But, the point still stands. Regina develops it's underclassmen far more than many across the state do. (Because they can......)
That results in them being penalized in the computer rankings (don't care) (offensive and defensive averages) and not leading the state in individual stat categories...but it has translated to wins (so that is your secret. Good thing every other school can copy that and then they'll all have similar success too...............). And, that depth is shown through having 4 different starting QB's and 4 different 1st string running backs over their 4 straight State Championships. (except this year...what happened, no CJ Beathard situation at Regina?

)[/B]

So anyways, Iowa City Regina has 63 kids on their roster (give or take for possible counting error, not recounting)......13 are freshmen. So that leaves you with 50 sophomore-through-seniors on your roster.

Now these next set of numbers were compiled at the beginning of the year so it is possible they're different by now, but would you like to know how many teams in 1A have over 50 kids total from freshman-senior out for football?

Eight (nine including Regina now). 6 of those 9 made the playoffs last year.

Not including Regina, know how many are still at 50 or more when you take out their freshmen numbers?...........Two.

(Dike-New Hartford had 64 total and 50 10th and above, Western Christian had 53 from 10th and above. Again these numbers were compiled around the beginning of the year, so several teams could've added more numbers, including freshmen since then.)

Maybe you just stumbled upon one of the big secrets to success. Participation.

Hmm. Perhaps. Then again since 2004, SE has been to the playoffs 9 times and they've never had real good numbers. Usually in the mid to low 30s. And SE's first team to reach the UNI-Dome did so with 31 total players (including 3 listed freshmen).

So maybe we're the exception to the rule...........

 

[Bringin the Heat]

Originally posted by BlameIt:

Originally posted by Bringin the Heat:



Round 1 Matchups
1 seeds v. 4 seeds

W. Branch v Sigourney-Keota

2 seeds v 3 seeds

Ogden v Eddyville Blakesburg Fremont


.

assuming SK and EBF both finish 4-2 district record, SK will be the #3 seed because they defeated EBF.

Its pretty reasonable to think they both will finish 4-2.

SK plays Columbus Jct and West Marshall (2 worst teams in the league)
EBF plays Highland and CJ (Highland may give them a scare)

No they didn't. EBF beat SK 14-6 on 10/3/14 So EBF would be the 3 seed.

Quikstats Link

 

[Spankyvic]

SK beat Pella Christian and PC beat Eddyville and Eddyville beat SK so I assume it will come down to the point.diff. rule (if all 3 win out).

 

[Bringin the Heat]

Correct. Point Diff will be used if PC, SK, and EBF are all tied with 2 losses in district.

Points through Week 7:
Pella Christian +37
EBF -5
SK -6

PC has basically locked up the 2 spot, as even with only a 1 point win over West Marshall (More likely to be 13+) and a 13 point loss to Regina, the other two can't catch them in point diff. The 3 and 4 seed will come down to who wins by more points through the last 2 games. EBF is in the driver's seat as long as they win by 13 in both games, or at least by as many points as SK.

 

[DarkThunder#61]

Originally posted by jen44:
I understand how one seeds and two seats won't play until the second round and and a district champions will not play each other until the quarterfinals. I understand one seeds and three seeds can also play in the first round along with getting rid of the sister districts. I'm guessing they want to match up one seeds and four seeds first-round and two and three seeds for us for first-round unless they are further than 125 miles. My question is are they going to just have the closest teams play each other or are they going to have teams from different districts play each other if they are under the 125 miles? Otherwise it wouldn't just be district teams playing each other in the playoffs?

As mentioned before, I think they'll make every reasonable attempt to avoid in-district matchups. As long as a team is within that 125-mile radius, and the seeds match up, they're fair game.

The second round is where it could get interesting with the pairings depending on who is left.

West Lyon is one of those teams that's kind of on an island distance-wise. They'll probably see more district opponents in the playoffs than anyone else (again depending on who wins), and then there's the issue of what to do if and when they reach the Qtrs because if all the favorites advance there would be no team within 125 miles of West Lyon. (Ogden, IKM, and SE are all near or over 2.5 hours away. However, West Lyon would get to host the Qtrs if they finish unbeaten, regardless, because they're last in the alphabet.

It's a possibility that if West Lyon is in the Qtrs that may be a neutral site game. Though that would probably be unlike the Association to do so.

Just think about this potential scenario though. If Fort Dodge somehow wins their district, they'll get to host two games. That would mean St. Edmond would have to look elsewhere for their two playoff games should they continue to advance, and then say the State decides to match them up with West Lyon (though most don't think they will when it gets to the Qtrs).You could have the #3 team in 1A not get to host a single game in the playoffs.

 

[BlameIt]

Bringin the Heat:

It is rare that I make a mistake re: stats, etc

So I will admit I mixed up the SK/EBF score.

 

[cidhawkeye]

Ummm.....did that just happen?

 

[BlameIt]

Originally posted by cidhawkeye:
Ummm.....did that just happen?

when I'm wrong - or dyslexic... I'm wrong - or dyslexic.

 

[usfhawk]

Originally posted by DarkThunder#61:

Originally posted by jen44:
I understand how one seeds and two seats won't play until the second round and and a district champions will not play each other until the quarterfinals. I understand one seeds and three seeds can also play in the first round along with getting rid of the sister districts. I'm guessing they want to match up one seeds and four seeds first-round and two and three seeds for us for first-round unless they are further than 125 miles. My question is are they going to just have the closest teams play each other or are they going to have teams from different districts play each other if they are under the 125 miles? Otherwise it wouldn't just be district teams playing each other in the playoffs?

As mentioned before, I think they'll make every reasonable attempt to avoid in-district matchups. As long as a team is within that 125-mile radius, and the seeds match up, they're fair game.

The second round is where it could get interesting with the pairings depending on who is left.

West Lyon is one of those teams that's kind of on an island distance-wise. They'll probably see more district opponents in the playoffs than anyone else (again depending on who wins), and then there's the issue of what to do if and when they reach the Qtrs because if all the favorites advance there would be no team within 125 miles of West Lyon. (Ogden, IKM, and SE are all near or over 2.5 hours away. However, West Lyon would get to host the Qtrs if they finish unbeaten, regardless, because they're last in the alphabet.

It's a possibility that if West Lyon is in the Qtrs that may be a neutral site game. Though that would probably be unlike the Association to do so.

Just think about this potential scenario though. If Fort Dodge somehow wins their district, they'll get to host two games. That would mean St. Edmond would have to look elsewhere for their two playoff games should they continue to advance, and then say the State decides to match them up with West Lyon (though most don't think they will when it gets to the Qtrs).You could have the #3 team in 1A not get to host a single game in the playoffs.

Will be interesting to see how things unfold for these teams.

 

[BlameIt]

the logic in sending FDSE on the road because they share a field is ridiculous.
West Lyon, regardless of alphabet, is more likely to give up HFAdv in rd 3 to a neutral site than FDSE traveling in 1st 2 rds

 

[privateer13]

Should all third round games be on neutral sites?

 

[DarkThunder#61]

Originally posted by privateer13:
Should all third round games be on neutral sites?

I think it's a discussion worth having.

The one issue is finding a school willing, or able, to host the game. With the way the playoffs are set up now, by the time the 2nd round pairings are set, the State would need to have possible venues in mind to start contacting them about hosting. It almost wouldn't be worth it to have pre-determined sites because there's no set bracket. Not to mention, if that school is in the playoffs, they'd have to look elsewhere because all games would be on that Friday.

Say the rule exists that games be on a neutral site and St. Eds and Ogden are paired in the Qtrs. More often than not, you're not gonna find a perfect location right in the middle between the two schools. But without pre-determined sites, what town would be best-suited to host those two teams?

Between Fort Dodge and Ogden there's:
Gowrie (Southeast Valley).....almost same driving distance. Could get a little crowded though depending on if both teams' fans travel well.
Lake City (South Central Calhoun).....a bit farther of a drive for both schools. Never been there though so don't know how big their facility is.
Webster City.....shorter drive for SE and longer drive for Ogden
Boone.....shorter drive for Ogden and longer drive for SE
Jefferson.....same as Boone

The one other issue, though I think most would overlook it, is if a Qtrs matchup is between two different seeds (not 1 vs 1), or even say between an unbeaten 1-seed and a 1-seed with a loss/losses. Should that game still be a neutral site game?

 

[TigerHawkTackle]

DarkThunder,

Wouldn't it be easier to split the state into say quadrants (kind of done anyway with the districts) and then identify schools that volunteer to be permanent or semi-permanent Quarterfinal sites. We know that Semis and Finals are always going to be in Cedar Falls - very close for some schools way long for others. But if some schools were awarded the quarters early on or even multiple years it would give them time to prepare to host the game and all of the schools in that general area time to adjust and know that is where they would be playing. I would imagine that the schools might be a little larger that would host and I would think that the state would have some minimum requirements, but I would definitely be in favor of having a predetermined neutral site when getting that far into the playoffs. Besides, its not like the host school now gets to make much money on the game.