Now that the Girls Union has added a 5th class, why not consider adding another class or two. If you are a 5A team, you might have to win 2 or maybe even as many as 3 games to get to state! Back in the day, teams had to really prove themselves as state tournament quality teams by winning as many as 6 games to make to the Barn. The tournament meant something special. Once at state, games were really competitive (as they should be). Now you see blowouts at the state level unless the Union does their creative gerrymandering to get their favorite teams there. We've gone from the Sweet Sixteen to Forty teams -- seems pretty watered down to me.
Need More Classes in BB
- Thread starter moondog24
- Start date
How many times does a team make state that shouldn't have been there at the large class level. I can't think of any over the last 10 years at the 4A level, I take that back Indianola made it like 3 years ago because the top seed in their substate was upset. There are barely any teams at the large class level that make state without being able to represent. I think its fine just like it its.
have to agree with you on that one, but the state has done that to every single sport all in the name of money. Why work hard if you know know it really isnt that difficult to make it to state anymore. I think girls BB is the most noticeable because in general there really is only about 3-4 teams a class that are very good and they crush everyone else. Obviously thats not the case every year but in general this state isnt so hot in the sport, volleyball in the other hand is pretty impressive so Im not sure why BB is so far behind.
Because they focus on one over the other?
Kinda like softball. Workouts start in December don't they?....or no wait, November.
Basketball is behind because just to be an average player, you have to have many tools. Shooting, passing, dribbling, rebounding, defending, etc. To be an average volleyball player, you can be really good at one skill and get into the game. Granted, to be a great team all the volleyball players have to have a lot of skills. There are basketball players that specialize too, but how many times to do you see the shooter who can't guard their shadow? Just my opinion but I think it is much easier to play volleyball and I don't think kids want to put in the serious time that it takes to be a great basketball player.
This post was edited on 1/22 10:26 PM by house54hoops
This post was edited on 1/22 10:26 PM by house54hoops
well put househoops, and that would go a long way toward explaining why its the same schools that are good at a certain sport anymore. I obviously havent been around forever but has it been common for girls to take the easy way out and not work hard in the past or is it becoming a bigger and bigger deal in todays world? Im actually really interested in answers for this because I have coached girls sports in the past and I wondered if things have changed since then.
Well Cancerstick- I think participation numbers tell you that there are less kids today that are willing to pay the price to be good. I think there are a lot of kids who do not have to rely on being in sports for their socialization and so they choose other things to do.
As far as the same schools being good I am not sure. I think to look at that in depth you would find a lot of factors as to why that is. I would guess a lot is tradition and expectation. Some schools will get that one group that comes through or that one star athlete that makes every team good for a few years- but the schools that maintain it- plenty of factors involved in that.
As far as the same schools being good I am not sure. I think to look at that in depth you would find a lot of factors as to why that is. I would guess a lot is tradition and expectation. Some schools will get that one group that comes through or that one star athlete that makes every team good for a few years- but the schools that maintain it- plenty of factors involved in that.
You are so right that girls don't want to play because basketball is the hardest sport for girls. Like mentioned before you have to have more than one skill to be a good to above average basketball player. There is a fundamental difference in boys and girls, you can see a boys team with 20 boys on it because they want to practice and be part of a team but many girls will quit before or during a season if they aren't going to play because they don't care about just being part of a the team (there are some exceptions).
I will say almost every good program, or state championship caliber team, has at least one sometimes multiple girls that play basketball solely or year round in different AAU programs that play all over the country. It is my belief that you need at least one of these types of players to be a great team.
I will say almost every good program, or state championship caliber team, has at least one sometimes multiple girls that play basketball solely or year round in different AAU programs that play all over the country. It is my belief that you need at least one of these types of players to be a great team.
Are these girls good because they play AAU and all over the country or do they play AAU and all over the country because they are good to begin with. I don't think these AAU teams are asking the lesser ability kid to play. I have said this before and I am stil looking for a good argument: the earlier we start these kids and drive them all over the place, the more kids are saying heck with it. They get burned out and they don't have fun. Have you seen a high school dual wrestling meet lately? Most schools have quads or triangular meets because the kids are not going out after being pushed so much by crazy parents. Before we get all wrapped up in AAU/traveling team stuff thinking "my kid is a division I athlete", how many high school kids have you seen that are D-I players? I am not saying on a selected AAU team. I am saying a high school team. I can't name one that I have personally seen or know personally. Parents are missing the point on sports of commitment, dedication, team work, goal setting, sportsmanship, etc. I don't have to spend tons of money and time driving my kid all over for weeks and weeks to accomplish these things. 99% of the kids that play high school sports are not some great college athlete.
Its a good argument / point. I would say this. How many of the girls that are playing D1 bball from the state of iowa didn't play in an AAU program. I haven't looked at the numbers but I would be very confident in saying that all of them did. Whether they were asked because of their ability or not, their ability was better developed by playing against that competition all over the country. I don't believe in the "burnout" argument. If you get burned out then you never truly loved the competition. You start out by just playing bball but as you get older it becomes about competition and some girls don't want to compete so people say they are burned out. If you look at varsity girls rosters from the large classes (4A and 5A) and see a freshman or sophomore logging considerable minutes for an average to above average team I could almost guarantee those girls play all year round in the AAU programs, maybe not 100% but close. There are two sides to the argument and I honestly don't know which one is right but it is my belief that the AAU programs are a necessary evil in "keeping up with the Jones."
I think Go Bulldogs has hit it on the head. I was a varsity basketball coach for 20 years- I was always torn between wanting to have a quality team and not pushing the kids too hard. I think your upper level kid that gets selected to play on an AAU team is one thing. I think the other thing though, is how many kids do we push out because the "opportunities" to play in the off-season are really for just a select few. I think what bothers me more than anything is how sports are now year round- if you are a marginal kid, trying to go from jv to varsity- it is nearly impossible if you are in a good basketball program. We have our teams playing year round-which is great if you are a coach- you have a surrogate coach for the off-season. Teams now play spring leagues, summer leagues, fall leagues, etc. That is ok if you get the chance to play in those- but if you don't the message is clear- no room for you in our program.
And this all starts in about 4th grade. I would not want to know how many kids over the years we have driven out of our athletic programs by telling them prior to 7th grade that they are at the bottom of the "sports food chain".
And all at the hands of the "traveling team parent coach" you know them- they show up on saturday with their Nike shirt on- diagram board in hand- just like the one Coach K uses. They ride the officials in the 5th grade tourney as if a trip to the final 4 were on the line. AFter the tourney they go home and add that days wins to their "career" coaching record in elementary touraments....which by the way, will be updated on Facebook that night. They are followed around by an entourage of parents who just know one day Geno Auriemma is going to come knocking on their door to off that full ride- but if he doesn't- it was the coach's fault.
All this while forgetting that in every survey I have ever seen- the number 1 reason kids choose to participate in co-curricular activities is to have FUN! We can bemoan the laziness of kids today- and I don't doubt that is part of the reason participation levels are down- but let's not forget that the "system"- every year- is being stacked against many kids more and more.
Some will say, "so you want to lose"- no, anybody who knows me and watched me coach knows that I am as intense as the next guy and wanted to win- but I also have begun to see another side of it. Two years of experience at the junior high level has challenged me about that kid that just wants to learn the game- wants to have a good experience. Isn't going to college on a scholarship- is there room for that kid in our programs anymore? Or is it- if you are not on the team that plays year round- don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out? CAn you have both?
And I am speaking big picture here, not about our school in particular- I just wonder will the day come when we have a "competitive" team and an "intra-mural" type team? It's easy to bitch about kids not staying out for stuff but let's put ourselves in their shoes for a minute and really examine where athletic programs are going- not one person who gripes about low participation rates would respond any differently than the kid who plays, loves the game, goes to the open gyms/weightrooms, but quits because they do not see their effort and work paying off.
Just something I've though about a lot lately......feel free to fire away and tell me where I am wrong.
And this all starts in about 4th grade. I would not want to know how many kids over the years we have driven out of our athletic programs by telling them prior to 7th grade that they are at the bottom of the "sports food chain".
And all at the hands of the "traveling team parent coach" you know them- they show up on saturday with their Nike shirt on- diagram board in hand- just like the one Coach K uses. They ride the officials in the 5th grade tourney as if a trip to the final 4 were on the line. AFter the tourney they go home and add that days wins to their "career" coaching record in elementary touraments....which by the way, will be updated on Facebook that night. They are followed around by an entourage of parents who just know one day Geno Auriemma is going to come knocking on their door to off that full ride- but if he doesn't- it was the coach's fault.
All this while forgetting that in every survey I have ever seen- the number 1 reason kids choose to participate in co-curricular activities is to have FUN! We can bemoan the laziness of kids today- and I don't doubt that is part of the reason participation levels are down- but let's not forget that the "system"- every year- is being stacked against many kids more and more.
Some will say, "so you want to lose"- no, anybody who knows me and watched me coach knows that I am as intense as the next guy and wanted to win- but I also have begun to see another side of it. Two years of experience at the junior high level has challenged me about that kid that just wants to learn the game- wants to have a good experience. Isn't going to college on a scholarship- is there room for that kid in our programs anymore? Or is it- if you are not on the team that plays year round- don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out? CAn you have both?
And I am speaking big picture here, not about our school in particular- I just wonder will the day come when we have a "competitive" team and an "intra-mural" type team? It's easy to bitch about kids not staying out for stuff but let's put ourselves in their shoes for a minute and really examine where athletic programs are going- not one person who gripes about low participation rates would respond any differently than the kid who plays, loves the game, goes to the open gyms/weightrooms, but quits because they do not see their effort and work paying off.
Just something I've though about a lot lately......feel free to fire away and tell me where I am wrong.
Interesting points, I to have coached jh sports in the past and I agree completely with a great deal of the kids especially in basketball not really getting to see the results of hard work because basketball is kind of an IQ sport where you have to breath it to understand it and what you need to do to be good at it. If you dont and you pick up a basketball randomly well your goose is cooked. That plus the game is very rough (can be almost football with out pads depending on the refs at the time) and Im not sure Ive seen a lot of girls that like that part of the game.
I do feel like hs success is brought on by what happens before jh (7&8) and what parents teach their kids in practices for tournaments. Their are numerous schools that you can tell that little to no parental involvement takes part of some schools and those are the programs that consistently win maybe 1-3 games a year.
I do feel like hs success is brought on by what happens before jh (7&8) and what parents teach their kids in practices for tournaments. Their are numerous schools that you can tell that little to no parental involvement takes part of some schools and those are the programs that consistently win maybe 1-3 games a year.
Well said Coach Wubben. I walked through a gym a couple weeks ago, 3rd maybe 4th grade boys were practicing. 7 of them were on the free throw line, the 2 coaches were sitting/coaching from the bleachers, one boy was at the other end running for some reason and the coach started yelling at him to get out of his comfort zone, he wasn't pushing hard enough. I am not sure it registered as I walked through, but wish I would have turned back around and confronted the coach that he had no right to tell a 3rd or 4th grader that. Really? In 3rd/4th grade? That kid will never think of bball as fun! The chances that he sticks it out until junior high?
Agreed Atomic- I think of all those coaches out there who are good for kids and their impact goes far beyond a basketball court- but they will not continue coaching because they failed to make a state tourney, or in the eyes of parents they did not win enough games....if you are going to hold them accountable like college and pro coaches then you better pay them like college or pro coaches.....uh oh.
Let's face it- some people end up in pretty good positions and others do not. I understand program building and all of that- and coaches should work hard, but perspective is a thing of the past for quite a few people.
Let's face it- some people end up in pretty good positions and others do not. I understand program building and all of that- and coaches should work hard, but perspective is a thing of the past for quite a few people.
I will tend to agree with Wades comments, it seems every year we tend to talk about these issues on these boards and they end up being the most active topics. I have my opinions on these subjects, especially the topics involving participation rates. Last year the CR Gazette had an article on participation with girls basketball in the metro/eastern Iowa part of the state, and I think it brought up an important aspect, there are many girls who decide not to continue with basketball because they dont see they have a chance. Two of the examples they gave was the Jefferson and Kennedy programs. Both large 4A schools(5A now) and both at oposite ends, Kennedy had close to 50 girls in all 4 grades, and Jefferson had I believe around 20. One of the comments made was the girls at Kennedy felt that they had an opportunity to play, and the coach was known to play a good number of girls, whereas at Jefferson it was commented that the girls didn't see the opportunities with a coach who played normally just 7. Both coaches are now gone from those programs.
I dont know whether or not some of the schools dont have more than 7 decent players, I cant imagine that occurring. Neither do I think there should be mandated playing time. But I do know that there are some coaches that think a 7 player rotation is what they want to do, and yet if injuries occur they are commenting on the lack of bench experience. I dont have the answers, but I think that focusing on high school team development rather select player AAU development would be what I would do these days as a coach.
I dont know whether or not some of the schools dont have more than 7 decent players, I cant imagine that occurring. Neither do I think there should be mandated playing time. But I do know that there are some coaches that think a 7 player rotation is what they want to do, and yet if injuries occur they are commenting on the lack of bench experience. I dont have the answers, but I think that focusing on high school team development rather select player AAU development would be what I would do these days as a coach.
This is a great conversation going on in here because it is awesome to see how others feel. There are several reasons why I love basketball and I think a lot have been mentioned here. I do think it is a very cerebral game and honestly think the difference between being a good player and a poor player is all in reaction speed, both mental and physical. I watched a girls game last night where one team was far quicker in everything they did. They KNEW where their teammates were and when they passed, they KNEW what they were going to do to score. Physically, if you compared the teams they weren't that much different but on the court, it was a whole different story. Coaching is some of that, but some of it is just an awareness at a heightened sense.
I have put zero thought into this but just popped into my head
How bout turning the clock back like years ago in college sports to maybe promote more participation.
Varsity teams are ONLY Juniors and Seniors.
Sophs have their own team and schedule
Freshman have their own team and schedule.
I am seeing more under classmen year after year thus the upper classmen see the writing on the wall and quit and then the numbers of participants decreases.
Just a crazy idea
How bout turning the clock back like years ago in college sports to maybe promote more participation.
Varsity teams are ONLY Juniors and Seniors.
Sophs have their own team and schedule
Freshman have their own team and schedule.
I am seeing more under classmen year after year thus the upper classmen see the writing on the wall and quit and then the numbers of participants decreases.
Just a crazy idea
I don't think this would work. Maybe at a large school, but certainly not for class 1a, 2a, and 3a. Just simply not enough kids going out for basketball.
I personally believe that it requires too much work and effort. To be good at basketball you have to be in shape, and develop skills, which takes time at the gym on your own. Too many girls are not willing to do this. Volleyball participation is also hurting basketball. Don't have to be in great shape or run a lot to play volleyball.
also a killer has been drill team at small schools, Ive seen multiple schools that have more kids out for drill team then are out for their schools teams, or better yet in the spring sport season they go out for tennis in droves knowing there is a limited amount of courts to practice thus they can sit around and chat for a couple hours saying they are out for a sport. Its easy to see why obesity is a rising concern in society, which is sad because it doesnt have to be that way.
Thanks for throwing it out there IASOONER but I have to agree with Wordel- wouldn't work because of the numbers and wouldn't be fair because many times younger kids are the better players. I hope I did not imply that I want less competitiveness in sports- I do not. You would see a lot of kids not work hard if they had a guarantee of not having to beat out other kids to play.
I also agree with Wordel that volleyball has hurt- I can recall quite a few girls that were good enough athletes to help my basketball team that played volleyball instead.
I also agree that it is a lot of work- basketball is different in terms of the skill set needed to be a good player.
I go to volleyball games and see a girl play only front row so the skills needed are limited.
Interesting conversation.
I also agree with Wordel that volleyball has hurt- I can recall quite a few girls that were good enough athletes to help my basketball team that played volleyball instead.
I also agree that it is a lot of work- basketball is different in terms of the skill set needed to be a good player.
I go to volleyball games and see a girl play only front row so the skills needed are limited.
Interesting conversation.
Volleyball has hurt participation.....they play "Club" Volleyball starting in January and it goes until around May 1st. What would happen if basketball would start playing their AAU programs in August and go until November 1st??? Multi-sport athletes are having a difficult decision. Do I compete for 8 months on one sport or do I play the "in season" sport for my school? I can go on and on.......it gets frustrating!!!
This topic is on my mind a lot lately as both of my children are getting to the age where I feel they should start some type of fundamental skill foundation for basketball. My dilemma is that I don't know how hard to push or when is the right time. When I grew up, we practiced as 5th graders and played a handful of tournaments as 6th graders. I just enjoyed being part of the team, but we were pretty successful too. I was by no means a star player, in fact my students now laugh when I tell them I scored a basket for the wrong team in the 8th grade. Part of me wants to wait until they want to do it, but part of me thinks that it took me until I was about 20 to really figure out the game as a player and how much difference would that have made if I had started sooner?
I don't see anything wrong with little kids tournaments- I currently coach my daughter's 5th grade team- I think as long as they are skill related and keep things in perspective....nothing wrong with exposure to skills early on. As a matter of fact- a person could do without the tournaments and just teach skills.....have very controlled scrimmages where you can stop the game and teach- that is important. People just get out of balance on this stuff. We have 11 girls on that team- really try to hit the fundamentals of the game.
Most people start in 4th grade with teaching skills- I think 5th grade is early enough to play games- but others might see that differently.
Most people start in 4th grade with teaching skills- I think 5th grade is early enough to play games- but others might see that differently.
Another thing that is hurting the high school "programs" is coaching. What I mean is as time goes on, there are fewer and fewer "programs" because you will not see any more 30+ year coaches. Once the long time coaches retire, there is such a revolving door on coaching positions. Especially in the small schools. Coaches don't stay in it very long because of the time it takes and the "program" takes a different path every 3-5 yrs. Some kids go through school today and have 2 or 3 different coaches in basketball. Not only is the time demand a problem, but the parents of the kids think that their kid is great and the coach is terrible and the young coach says heck with it. Again, the reason for high school sports is slowly escaping our society since the society no longer has a real perspective of sports played by kids.
You don't get 3-5 years at large schools anymore to build a program. They can find coaches for the large schools anytime they want. I know 10-15 coaches that have been pushed out after only 3-4 years over the last decade. Small schools may keep a coach longer and give them a chance to build something but not the large schools.
I also coach my daughters' youth teams. I think youth teams are great for the young kids but it is how you approach it. Like mentioned above you have to teach the fundamentals for years and not worry about the other things. We started my daughter's out in 3rd/4th grade and all we would do for 1 1/2 hours of practice twice a week was pass, shoot, dribble, and defense. We never once worked on any "plays" or offensive team concepts. That first year of tournaments we would get beat all the time because the other teams would have one or two girls that they would run plays for. After 2 years we beat those same teams by 15-20 points almost every weekend and we still don't run any plays, but all of the girls we play can dribble, pass, shoot, and play defense. My girls are now in middle school and we are just now starting t work on a couple set plays.
If youth coaches are trying to run play after play or play a zone defense then they are "coaching" to win a youth game instead of coaching to help make the players better.
I also coach my daughters' youth teams. I think youth teams are great for the young kids but it is how you approach it. Like mentioned above you have to teach the fundamentals for years and not worry about the other things. We started my daughter's out in 3rd/4th grade and all we would do for 1 1/2 hours of practice twice a week was pass, shoot, dribble, and defense. We never once worked on any "plays" or offensive team concepts. That first year of tournaments we would get beat all the time because the other teams would have one or two girls that they would run plays for. After 2 years we beat those same teams by 15-20 points almost every weekend and we still don't run any plays, but all of the girls we play can dribble, pass, shoot, and play defense. My girls are now in middle school and we are just now starting t work on a couple set plays.
If youth coaches are trying to run play after play or play a zone defense then they are "coaching" to win a youth game instead of coaching to help make the players better.
Nice job Hawkbb, I cant tell you how frustrated I was coaching jh basketball when all they did (before 7th grade) was plays rather than do any thing fundamental. Heck I can say that was my JH experience where we didnt really learn anything except for a few plays and the kentucky drill, which led to a lot of 2-3 win seasons, so you definitely did things the right way 
Woobster- I couldn't agree with you more about teaching basketball through practice instead of a bunch of tournaments. I coach my 3rd grade boys team and we are just practicing. A lot of parents want us to go to tournaments, but to be honest with you they get more instruction and skills at this level at practice. I have been coaching basketball at the high school level for many years, and tournaments are great for teams that have the fundamentals down, but to go to a tournament just to go to a tournament is the wrong approach in my opinion. Tournaments should be used as teaching tools after a certain level of skills are obtained. I look at it if I was going to train my kid to be a boxer. I wouldn't put him in the ring until he knew enough skills to be a threat in the ring.
Good analogy to the boxing, I would only say that playing some games and tournaments can be a good thing. You're not going to get physical hurt going to a tournament with some skills like boxing. The games tournaments are good for teaching the kids basic basketball situations like when to transition, free throws, inbounding etc..... and get to practice some of those skills against others. As long as you are using the games/tournaments to teach and not "win" its essentially another practice.
Hawkbb101- You are the kind of coach that I would want my kids to play for. You really get it. I love tournaments if they are used for teaching the game. Every tournament is not the NBA Championship. If you win tournaments great for the kids and communities. I couldn't agree with one of your previous posts more about teaching skills and fundamentals over plays. Winning games at 5th grade because you have the best player on the floor is a lot different than having the best team on the floor in 7th grade. I have seen that many times over the years. The best thing about coaching high school is a lot of times you convert the best players from 4 classes to one team to create your varsity squad. In the end the programs that have depth of good talent are the best programs in the state because they have the best fundamental skills. We beat a lot of teams that have had a great class go through because of program depth.
Thank you Magic, I appreciate that. I have been coaching varsity basketball now for the past 15 years and have had to battle youth coaches on this topic all the time, so when my kids started playing I made sure to try and coach them the right way. I have had many conversations with coaches within my youth system right now that aren't doing things the way I would like and I always talk to them about it doesn't matter to win your 6th, 7th, or 8th grade games but it matters that the players start to learn the skills they need to play with my system at high school. Right now they want to play zones and I hate zone and will almost never play a zone in my varsity program, if they can't play man they can't play zone.
I follow a 4a conference in SE Iowa and 3 out of the 5 teams had to cancel there Freshmen games because of to many kids playing up.This is just really hard for me to believe its got this bad in 4a schools.Maybe 1 team but 3 of them.. By the way this is a very good thread.
This post was edited on 1/24 2:56 PM by bigfridaynite
This post was edited on 1/24 2:56 PM by bigfridaynite
It is funny you say that because I too have had that conversation with some of my parents. I remind them of the big picture- we want to keep as many out as we can. We want to build fundamentals, and if you aren't sure how to do that I would be more than willing to work with them and the kids on those. I have clinics and camps where we really hit those areas hard. The big picture of course would be to give the kids the ultimate experience of playing at Des Moines. Now that does not always materialize but the road to the prize is ultimately the experience that one has during that process. We have had groups that did not do travelling teams and we had groups that did not win many games, but overall the program is solid because some groups do and we have wonderful parents who step up and keep the big picture intact. I will be one of those weekend tournament coaches soon so it will be interesting to see what "experiences" I have at that level.
On another note, I have officiated weekend tournaments for many years and it is always interesting to see the level of "coaching" that goes on at those events. I from time to time redirect coaches to helping their kids get better than from helping me "get better" at officiating. It will serve them better in the long run. That always cracks me up
On another note, I have officiated weekend tournaments for many years and it is always interesting to see the level of "coaching" that goes on at those events. I from time to time redirect coaches to helping their kids get better than from helping me "get better" at officiating. It will serve them better in the long run. That always cracks me up
Yes, but can the officials also help players get better by making the correct calls when they see them and not just let them go because of certain various factors (level of play, gender playing, score of the game etc etc............)Originally posted by Magic 10:
It is funny you say that because I too have had that conversation with some of my parents. I remind them of the big picture- we want to keep as many out as we can. We want to build fundamentals, and if you aren't sure how to do that I would be more than willing to work with them and the kids on those. I have clinics and camps where we really hit those areas hard. The big picture of course would be to give the kids the ultimate experience of playing at Des Moines. Now that does not always materialize but the road to the prize is ultimately the experience that one has during that process. We have had groups that did not do travelling teams and we had groups that did not win many games, but overall the program is solid because some groups do and we have wonderful parents who step up and keep the big picture intact. I will be one of those weekend tournament coaches soon so it will be interesting to see what "experiences" I have at that level.
On another note, I have officiated weekend tournaments for many years and it is always interesting to see the level of "coaching" that goes on at those events. I from time to time redirect coaches to helping their kids get better than from helping me "get better" at officiating. It will serve them better in the long run. That always cracks me up
I see a lot of officials just let stuff (traveling, an elbow toss or seven) go because it's an 8th grade girls basketball game (could include all the way up to JUCO girls actually from my experience) and the score is 45-10 in the 3rd.
I suppose they're doing their job by letting the coaches, in stead of them, tell the players about those mistakes/fouls they're making too.
Of course it's better if they're letting the coaches correct those mistakes at the start of the game, too right? Consistency is key.
You are very right GoHawks- I think it is a combination. Referees play a bigger role than they might think. We played in a rec league this winter where they were very good about enforcing some rules- if a player did not step all the way out of bounds to inbound ball they would take them over and show them they had to do that- I like that type of officiating.
But we also had football games that were played with a basketball and I could see our 5th graders not having any fun...in the future we will go with teams that want to come to each others place on a saturday and have controlled scrimmages.
For crying out loud- we had one day where a girl jumped up to shoot- decided not to- came down with the ball- no call. Just makes no sense. And when bodies are hitting the floor- not because of lack of coordination- but because of contact, and nothing gets called- then bad habits are being reenforced.
As a varsity coach trying to run a 5-8 tourney that was always the biggest thing I got from people coming to our tourney- WHO is officiating and HOW MANY will be on each court....very important.
How many of you allow pressing in your tourneys? I have seen both- no pressing/no three point shots- some that press up to a 20 pt lead, and some that press only in last 5 minutes of half. All can be effective, I guess I prefer the no pressing rules for little kids.
But we also had football games that were played with a basketball and I could see our 5th graders not having any fun...in the future we will go with teams that want to come to each others place on a saturday and have controlled scrimmages.
For crying out loud- we had one day where a girl jumped up to shoot- decided not to- came down with the ball- no call. Just makes no sense. And when bodies are hitting the floor- not because of lack of coordination- but because of contact, and nothing gets called- then bad habits are being reenforced.
As a varsity coach trying to run a 5-8 tourney that was always the biggest thing I got from people coming to our tourney- WHO is officiating and HOW MANY will be on each court....very important.
How many of you allow pressing in your tourneys? I have seen both- no pressing/no three point shots- some that press up to a 20 pt lead, and some that press only in last 5 minutes of half. All can be effective, I guess I prefer the no pressing rules for little kids.
I recently officiated a youth girls tournament and between Friday and Saturday we threw 3 PARENTS out. The problems with some of these issues involve everyone. But, as coaches we are still the ones who are ultimately responsible for teaching and coaching we are the ones with thicker skin. What we did in the past after 4th grade, we had former players from the area coach our girls and that made a huge difference (All 8 girls from fourth grade are still out for freshmen bball). I know sometimes you don't have the resources to do this but the sooner you can not have parents NOT coaching (in most cases) the better of your girls will be. Just my opinion from past experiences.
Your always are going to have good refs and bad refs, THAT WILL NEVER CHANGE. Its time to not bitch about them but, instead use it as a coaching point about adversity. No matter if your 10,20, or 40 you will always have adversity in your life. I believe if you can deal with adversity and overcome it at any age you will ALWAYS be successful. This is the #1 thing I coach my football players to deal with and learn. Again Just My Opinion.
This is an awesome thread!
Your always are going to have good refs and bad refs, THAT WILL NEVER CHANGE. Its time to not bitch about them but, instead use it as a coaching point about adversity. No matter if your 10,20, or 40 you will always have adversity in your life. I believe if you can deal with adversity and overcome it at any age you will ALWAYS be successful. This is the #1 thing I coach my football players to deal with and learn. Again Just My Opinion.
This is an awesome thread!
Most tourneys you go to around the DM Area allow pressing from 4th grade on up. Pressing in youth bball essentially means you have one really quick girl that is able to steal the ball all the time and get a lay-up. There were teams that my daughter's would play in 4th grade in a tourney that allowed pressing and would lose by 15-10 points because one girl would steal and score. Then we would play that team in a game that only allowed 1/2 ct man defense and would win by 10-15 points because our girls were more fundamentally sound.
Full Court defense should not be allowed until MS at the earliest. Any earlier than that and you are not even teaching basketball anymore. Then there are those tournaments that don't allow pressing and only man defense but in the half court blow the whistle and tell the defense they have to be within 5 feet of their girl. Thats NOT man defense. I spent a lot of time with our girls on team defense and correct positioning and you will almost never be within 5 feet of your girl unless you are on the ball or one pass away. My girls would get frustrated when they would provide help defense and the ref would stop play because of it.
Full Court defense should not be allowed until MS at the earliest. Any earlier than that and you are not even teaching basketball anymore. Then there are those tournaments that don't allow pressing and only man defense but in the half court blow the whistle and tell the defense they have to be within 5 feet of their girl. Thats NOT man defense. I spent a lot of time with our girls on team defense and correct positioning and you will almost never be within 5 feet of your girl unless you are on the ball or one pass away. My girls would get frustrated when they would provide help defense and the ref would stop play because of it.
I agree- I have never heard of having to be within so many feet of your girl....and like you say- if you are in "helpside" defense and playing it properly- you better not be that close to your girl.
I also agree on the pressing- I can see 7th grade.
We were 5th graders in a 5th/6th league this winter and we played mostly 6th grade teams- wow, they full court press and it gets physical and you are not getting it over half court most of the time. It did teach us to use "bounce" passes though.
I also agree on the pressing- I can see 7th grade.
We were 5th graders in a 5th/6th league this winter and we played mostly 6th grade teams- wow, they full court press and it gets physical and you are not getting it over half court most of the time. It did teach us to use "bounce" passes though.
I couldn't agree more with the biased officiating, Ive even gotten the remark from officials that its just jh girls game before, that's not an ok way to look at things, mean while kids were flying all over the floor and being shoved out of bounds into walls in a small gym, that helps nobody out in anyway and they bust their butts so they deserve more. Also why is it that in general officials especially at a younger age dont call contact with a ball handler, you really cant teach your kids to take care of the ball if the other team is bumping you and not moving their feet so again your stuck not being able to teach anything because of that type of play.
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