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Making state in every sport.

icecreamland

Freshman
Sep 7, 2011
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With their 4-1 upset victory over two time defending state champion #1 Akron Westfield, LeMars Gehlen Catholic has made the state tournament/meet in every woman's sport the school offers. (Runner up in volleyball, state semifinalist in basketball, 6th place in golf, made it as a team in track and cross country, and now they have made it in softball.)

This sounds like an extremely impressive feat, but how rare is it? I wouldn't even know where to start searching to see if other schools have done this or not.

Does anyone know of other schools that have done this or is it as impressive as it sounds?
 
Not sure about any other schools or any other yeas, but this year Davenport Assumption qualified for State in many sports - they won State in Girls Basketball, GIrls Soccer, they were State runner-up in Girls Cross Country and Girls Track, and they just qualified for State in softball. The only sports that they didn't qualify for State in was Volleyball (they lost in the Regional Finals), Girls Tennis (they lost to eventual State Champ Cammanche in the Regonal semi-finals) and GIrls Golf. Not quite as impressive as L-G, Catholic, but not too shabby, especially since they won two State titles and two runner-ups. Congrats to the L-G, Catholic - quite a feat.
This post was edited on 7/10 10:23 AM by o2bahawk
 
Girls private school recruiting........yes, we've gone too far.



















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Dark Thunder we have been down this road before. I can't speak for any other school, but the group of girls at Assumption have been classmates together since grade school so are you insinuating that they recruited these girls at an very early age to attend private grade schools? Isn't it sort of ironic that posters rarely talk about open enrollment in public schools where kids transfer from within a school district and even from one school district to another during H.S.

This post was edited on 7/11 8:05 AM by o2bahawk
 
Friday - I know I don't have to tell you this but I will remind you that both Iowa girls and boys H.S. Athletic Associations base their class systems on student enrollment for certain grades and because Dav Assumption has somewhere around 330 students (can't remeber the number and don't want to look it up) that puts them in 3A under the new IGHSAA five class system. I know the argument is that their schedule consists of mainly 4A and 5A schools because they are located in a large metropolitan area and belong to a 5A/4A conference so they should be playing in a higher class. Illinois uses a multiplier for private schools when their performance warrants it and many have suggested adopting that system in Iowa. I am in favor of something like that, but why limit it to private schools when there is open enrollment in Iowa. Why not use that multiplier for all schools (obviously you wouldn't need it for Class 5A in girls and Class 4A in boys)? Guess I have to ask you what is your solution since you think the current class system is funny?


I would just like to say that regardless of what class they are in and whether or not they qualify for State in any or all sports, Dav Assumnption currently has an unbelievable group of talented young ladies that have excelled in not only athletics, but also other areas to include academic achievement - congrats to those young ladies.
 
Originally posted by o2bahawk:

Dark Thunder we have been down this road before. I can't speak for any other school, but the group of girls at Assumption have been classmates together since grade school so are you insinuating that they recruited these girls at an very early age to attend private grade schools? Isn't it sort of ironic that posters rarely talk about open enrollment in public schools where kids transfer from within a school district and even from one school district to another during H.S.
This post was edited on 7/11 8:05 AM by o2bahawk
Of course I was joking, but yeah sure I'm absolutely serious about those girls being recruited before preschool and then were groomed in a scientific laboratory for the next several years to become dominating athletic....athletes, or something like that.


Private schools in the big metro areas often compete with the large class public schools for kids. They also occasionally compete in athletics and especially do if they play in the same conference (Heelan, Dowling, Xavier, Assumption).

Assumption is one of the exceptions. They play in a city of 99,000+ people, which makes it one of the 5 largest in Iowa.

Certainly other smaller private schools are entrenched in bigger cities. St Eds at Fort Dodge (20th largest), Newman at Mason City (16th), St. Albert at Council Bluffs (7th), Regina at Iowa City (6th), and Columbus at Waterloo (5th)

But what separates Assumption from these schools is the conference they play in and the competition they face throughout the year. This was actually the point we had discussed earlier.

While most of those schools I listed above have hovered around the 1A/2A level for the last couple of decades, they also play in conferences relative to their size, as well as in the playoffs.
Assumption, however, plays in a 4A/5A conference and predominantly plays a 4A/5A schedule.

Very few 3A schools see this kind of schedule that Assumption gets. They have built themselves up as the premiere athletics program in a city of 99,000. They play in a 4A/5A conference against 4A/5A competition. It bears repeating. THEN...then they drop down and take on a few 3A teams who either have not played a team like Assumption all season, or haven't been tested by the same schedule as Assumption, who in turn is trying to build their "smaller" athletics program to compete in a 4A/5A conference.......while the vast majority of their opponents in postseason play have been geared to compete against 3A competition, sometimes smaller depending on the make-up of their conference.

It is a very large advantage that Assumption has to compete against the teams they do and then step down and be rewarded by playing teams in smaller classes than what they had been competing against all season.

But there's nothing wrong with it, of course. The issue is you look at the results. If, for example, Assumption is one of two premiere teams from their conference and they sweep the other top team from their conference, who then goes on to win state in 4A/5A, and Assumption wins it all in 3A, is that really enough for Assumption? As long as they win a title, doesn't matter what class it's in (could be 2A, could be 1A), that's good enough for them? Even if they are better than the best in 4A/5A? Especially if they were from their conference?

And why Assumption remains the exception after these facts is because they play a predominantly 4A/5A schedule.

St. Eds sees a handful of 3A teams (WC, CL, IF-A) and maybe a 4A team (girls) if they play in a tournament (FD Invite), but then so does most of their competition.

Assumption plays against competition at the highest level and then drops down to 3A. Their competition does not, most often.

All you need to do is admit you'd be happy playing in a larger class relative to the competition you beat and are better than in the regular season.........just sayin.
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This post was edited on 7/12 9:28 PM by DarkThunder#61
 
DarkThunder

Am I reading your post correctly? Are you really complaining that Assumption goes out and challenges themselves throughout their season? Their enrollment is in the range of other 3A schools, why shouldn't they compete in the 3A field during the post season? They use the regular season to make themselves better...but you seem to have a problem with that. Other 3A schools are more than welcome to go out and find games against 4A and 5A competition...the good programs do, the poorer programs don't.

Our softball team, which is a little 1A school, plays the majority of our out-of-conference schedule against teams that are 3A or higher. We push ourselves to play the best competition we can. Should we have to play in the 3A field then since most of our games are against that level of competition? No...we play those games to make sure we see better competition, prepare us for different types of pitchers, and make sure we give ourselves the best chance come tournament time. No different than what Assumption does against the 4A and 5A schools.
 
2012 Beds numbers have Assumption at 89th with 344 students. If they were just able to recruit a few more players, just 2, they would then be at 88 and a 4A school by my calculations. And those recruits dont even need to be someone from a sport, they could be debate people, science club members or even a cheerleader or two. Maybe that would make people happier, but then we would run out of one of the only two topics active. Of course, if they could have hired an inexperienced coach, then the two active threads could merge and give us something to talk about until basketball starts.


On a more straight forward line, I don't think a school should be punished by playing up levels in sports, although I can understand it to a point when Assumption is playing at the 3A level, but that is due to the Beds number and not what the school has done, although they could petition to move up. I guess we could ask what if they were playing at the 4A level, would people still get upset at them because they are playing predominantly 5A schools, although it looks like both Davenport North and North Scott-Eldridge are also 4A schools this year. Assumption will probably be the favorite in the MAC this year along with I have to believe Muscatine, where Coach Orvis has done a great job in her few years there. In my opinion a small school like Assumption being able to compete with schools 3-4 times their size is doing well, with or without the recruiting credit.
 
Rose - you nailed it - the smaller private schools can go after scheduling larger schools but the next argument will be is that most of them are in less populated areas and the availability pool of those larger schools is smaller. There will always be someone making an argument against private schools and recruiting, competition level they play, etc. FWIW - it appears right now that Dav Assumption is going to have a larger than normal frosh class (must have been a good recruiting summer) so they will probably be moving up to Class 4A eventually. Like coach'd said - hypothetically speaking, if they win a 4A title, people will argue that they should be playing 5A because of the conference they are in and the competition they play.


Still no one wanting to discuss the open enrollment issue?
 
o2bahawk

I teach and coach at a public school. It doesn't matter if your a private or public school...you can schedule whomever you want (within reason). I'm from Northwest Iowa, so we're not sitting around large metro schools....but we travel and find tournaments to get those games.
 
Champions are built in off season it just looks crazy thar DA can play in state in Softball and not have one kid on it that plays Basketball.

Summer team BB camps are going strong DA can take everybody while about every 3a and probably 4a school can only take half roster because they are playing softball.

During the winter the whole softball team gets to practice together because they dont do winter sports. This is the kinda thing you see in 5a imo.

Very few multi sport kids.I know they have a few but not like any other 3a school i know that.
 
Rose - totally agree that it doesn't matter whether private or public - guess I focused on private because of the whole private school recruiting issue was identified in earlier posts.


Friday - have to disagree with you completely about Assumption having very few multi-sports stars. Yeah it may appear that way with this years softball team, but let's look at all sports over all of the seasons - Spring sports - there were girls running track and playing on the soccer team in the same season (one team which won a State title and another team that was State runnerup) - a lot of those same girls played either volleyball or ran cross country in the Fall and then played basketball in the Winter. So to say that Assumption has very few mutli-sports girls is the farthest thing from the truth. In fact, many of those mutli-sports girls have achieved some sort of All Conference/All State/ All Tourney team/Individual or relay team title in more than one sport. Again I will just state that currently there is a very talented group of girls enrolled at Assumption.
 
Originally posted by o2bahawk:

Rose - totally agree that it doesn't matter whether private or public - guess I focused on private because of the whole private school recruiting issue was identified in earlier posts.

Friday - have to disagree with you completely about Assumption having very few multi-sports stars. Yeah it may appear that way with this years softball team, but let's look at all sports over all of the seasons - Spring sports - there were girls running track and playing on the soccer team in the same season (one team which won a State title and another team that was State runnerup) - a lot of those same girls played either volleyball or ran cross country in the Fall and then played basketball in the Winter. So to say that Assumption has very few mutli-sports girls is the farthest thing from the truth. In fact, many of those mutli-sports girls have achieved some sort of All Conference/All State/ All Tourney team/Individual or relay team title in more than one sport. Again I will just state that currently there is a very talented group of girls enrolled at Assumption.
o2...the whole private school recruiting issue that was identified in earlier posts...did you not read my previous post? Apparently recruiting is such a sensitive subject that someone who is a private school supporter can't make a joke about another private school recruiting..........
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The ONLY thing I discussed with you was the class of competition that Assumption faces. Understand that.

And who are you asking about the open enrollment issue? Why not just share your feelings on that while you're at it and maybe someone that wants to add in will do so....


This post was edited on 7/13 2:24 PM by DarkThunder#61
 
Track and Soccer i will agree 2 or 3 girls carry them in both sports but come on not a whole lot of skill involved there just great speed.Maybe 3 played volleyball that play basketball most 3a teams they have at least 6 or 7 doing both.I'm talking about teams that make state not just the Avg. team.

DA people want to come on here and brag about going to state in all these sports when you get the pick of the Quad cities for each sport you should be good.

Anyway congrats on taking out a real 3a team in West Burlington that should be at state.Its kinda like the old days when your Basketball team was taking out very good 2a teams.
 
Originally posted by Rose bowl or bust:
DarkThunder

Am I reading your post correctly? Are you really complaining that Assumption goes out and challenges themselves throughout their season? Their enrollment is in the range of other 3A schools, why shouldn't they compete in the 3A field during the post season? They use the regular season to make themselves better...but you seem to have a problem with that. Other 3A schools are more than welcome to go out and find games against 4A and 5A competition...the good programs do, the poorer programs don't.

Our softball team, which is a little 1A school, plays the majority of our out-of-conference schedule against teams that are 3A or higher. We push ourselves to play the best competition we can. Should we have to play in the 3A field then since most of our games are against that level of competition? No...we play those games to make sure we see better competition, prepare us for different types of pitchers, and make sure we give ourselves the best chance come tournament time. No different than what Assumption does against the 4A and 5A schools.
Complaining? I don't know. Did I say it was wrong and that Assumption should be punished for what they do?
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...perhaps you didn't read my post correctly. Oh there's more...

Of course their enrollment is in 3A, good for them. I'm pretty sure I even mentioned something like that in my post that would let readers know I was aware of that. Maybe not?
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Most of your post is preaching to the choir so-to-speak.

My "issue", if we're gonna call it that, is that Assumption plays in a 4A/5A conference. They're locked into that. They can't really skip out on that, nor do they want to (as far as I know, but then I'm not familiar with the relations between all the Davenport metro schools....)

Assumption may challenge themselves out-of-conference, but they do so because they can. That's not a detraction against them. However, what gives them the advantage is also the 4A/5A teams they HAVE to face in conference play. 18 games that are locked in against 4A/5A competition that they compete against EVERY year.

Other 3A schools are more than welcome to go out and find 4A/5A schools to play against, but you know the problem with that?
Those 4A/5A schools are also trying to find games to play against other 4A/5A schools. There's only so many teams and games to go around. And it works well for Assumption being in the metro area they are in.

Name another school that has the opportunity to play as many 4A/5A schools as DA does because of where they're located (distance is also a factor in scheduling OOC games) and what conference they are in?

Let's look at another school for example. Des Moines Christian is in the Class 2A tournament. Sure they come from Des Moines, but look at the competition they face throughout the season. 1A/2A and a few 3A schools. They play in a 1A/2A conference.
Now, as you put it, they are more than welcome to go out and play all those 5A schools in Des Moines....but do the 5A schools want to play a 2A school when they can play another 4A/5A team from around the area?

DMC plays competition relative to their class size, and they do so come tournament play as well.

Assumption is different and that is where this argument lies. I'm simply asking if Assumption would rather be rewarded for beating the competition in tournament play, that they faced in the regular season.

In basketball, Assumption beat Iowa City West in the regular season. Wouldn't they have liked the opportunity to beat them in the 4A tournament as well?

Or would that be unfair because of how small they are? The size of the school excuse may work for a lot of schools, but in Assumption's case, they prove that size apparently isn't an issue for them because, as I stated, they are one of, if not, the premiere athletics program in the Davenport area. Why not play up a class if they can beat those "bigger" schools that they've already beat in the regular season?


Btw, what is your school?


P.S. If you want, I'll take the 8 3A schools that made it to state and compare the teams (and class size) they faced in the regular season.

This post was edited on 7/13 3:08 PM by DarkThunder#61
 
The other question I have is just out of curiosity.

How big is Assumption, usually?

I compare them to Sioux City Heelan. Sioux City has a population of 82,000+. Heelan has spent most of their years in 3A/4A (4A in girls sports starting this year).

They have a current enrollment of 415, which makes them 33/48 for 4A schools.

Assumption, located in Davenport with a population of 99,000+, has a current enrollment of 344, which makes them the 2nd largest 3A school (however as mentioned, still 9 kids from being the smallest 4A school).
The largest 3A school is Algona, which has a population of 5,560, fyi.

Sioux City has 4 main schools: East, West, North, and Heelan

Davneport has 4 main schools: West, Central, North and Assumption


Has Assumption's enrollment been on a decline? I believe Heelan's has as well, although I heard they are working to build it back up.

Just as a reference point, and not arguing anything, Assumption won a 4A baseball title in 1982....and then won the title in 2008, in Class 2A.
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And since it's out there, o2, is Assumption the only school to win a state title in 3 different classes? Just asking...nothing threatening there.
 
Friday - I replied to the OP because he asked if anyone knew if the "feat" that L-M Gehlen achieved had been accomplished before. You then responded to that by making a statement that DA had very few multi-sports girls (which I responded to). Then in your last post you talk about "girls who carry a team" which I think is a little differnt from your original statement about multi-sports girls. You further state that you are only talking about teams that make State and in the same post you rant about how DA people "brag" about going to state in all of those sports. Make up your mind, do you want to talk about girls that carry a team (which would have to be defined) or do you want to talk about girls who participate in multiple sports - and then do you want to talk only about teams that make State or do you want to talk about all sports. Regardless of what you want to discuss, it appears that you do not have a lot of knowledge of DA girls rosters and achievements because you would realize that there are numbers/data to support a disagreement with any of your statements in your posts.
 
I'll just say this nobody cares about DA. i mean nobody outside that school district.

Everybody knows you are a state contender every year in every sport because of a lot of advantages most schools don't have.I'm not saying its recruiting with in the school and i'm not going to deny that fact that DA is very good but just go to 4a or 5a and compete in post season.
 
I'm not really sure how this turned into a Davenport Assumption thread, but does anyone have an actual answer to my original question?

Has any other school, regardless of class and public/private, made it to state in EVERY SINGLE womens (or mens, if it has happened) sport the school offers or has LeMars Gehlen Catholic completed a rare and impressive feat by doing so?
 
In 2010 Mt.Vernon had a great run in a lot of girls sports.

But not all of them.What LGC has done is really outstanding.
 
If people outside of Davenport didn't care about DA why would they post threads that talk about DA?



Difference bewtween 1982 (4A) and 2008 (2A) comparison is because I am pretty sure that in 1982 DA had a total population of over 900 students and was classified as 4A based on that population. I am not even sure how they categorized classes back in 1982 - did they only use three grade levels? If so, then the DA population was probably around 680 - if not it was over 900. In 2008, the beds population had dropped by over half to somewhere around 300. So yes there has been a decline in students since early 1980's, but one reason is that the average family size has also decreased since then.



To answer the question about how I feel about DA competing at a lower level than their conference - as I alluded to earlier - I support using a multiplier when schools perform well, but I think it should apply to all schools not just private schools - and I say that because of open enrollment. What I was fishing for is to see if any other person considered open enrollment as recruiting? When the topic comes up on this board, people only focus on private schools. Maybe I am a little sensitive about private schools and the topic of recruiting. Sorry if I missed certain poster's humor or sarcasm.

This post was edited on 7/14 11:12 AM by o2bahawk
 
Dav. Assumption. Speaking in terms of basketball. I would not state that their conference, at least currently is that huge of a challenge. Outside Muscatine all schools had double digits in the loss column. Playing Davenport Central, North and West twice a year? Same goes with Heelan on the Western side. They play in a conference where until 5 class system came into play all schools were a class bigger. Did playing Sioux City West, Council Bluffs TJ and AL twice a year make them better or worse? The three Sioux City public schools would have not been a top three team in the Lakes (2A and 3A schools) or Western Valley (1A and 2A schools) conference. Just because they play bigger schools just not automatically equate to better competition. They play regionals in the class that fits their enrollment. Pretty simple.

IF we did say they should play up because of their regular season schedule then there are a number of public schools that would need to play up as well.

Public schools recruit, private schools recruit. It happens on a more regular basis than people want to realize. Not much of a fuss was made when Thok enrolled at Sioux City East, but a lot of recruiting accusations when he enrolled at Western.

As a public school coach who had competed against numerous private schools, I would like to think we spent more time worrying how to be better than them rather than spending time complaining about their inherent advantages.

And yes, Mt Vernon's run of state titles was very impressive a year or two ago. Good for LMG as well. Just as well throw Western in the mix too.
 
The St. Eds boys have had a pretty good year, only missing state in wrestling (team duals) and golf, so far. Finished second in track, tennis and basketball.

I was going to say though I can't think of any school that's accomplished what Gehlen's girls programs have this year, making state in every sport.

I would bet you could find a school that's managed to do this, but it would certainly take some digging. This is a rather rare feat to pull off.
 
So would it be fair then if the LSU played their regular season schedule in the SEC (talking football for example) and then come championship run time; drop down to D1 AA and play for that championship?
 
Not an accurate comparison.? LSU is not classified as a D1AA, D2, or NAIA school, they are in a different classification.? LSU would not be eligible for that level.? Assumption however has had the specific number of students that placed them in 3A.?? Why should they be penalized for playing a regular season schedule that includes larger (although maybe not great) schools?


Since MOCFV plays mainly 1A and 2A teams during the year should they then be moved down to 2A come tournament time?


You will never convince me a school should have to move up based on who they play during the regular season.?? I understand your argument, I just don't agree with it.

This post was edited on 8/22 11:13 AM by pmknicks
 
Bellevue Marquette (1A) is on a run thus far this year...girls went to state in Softball, Cross Country, and Volleyball, and look to have a good basketball team. Golf team returns last years 17th place individual finisher, Carly Jacobs. Great year so far!
 
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