Last night I attended a game of which I will keep private. However, the game was quite the mismatch and pitted a cellar dweller vs a contender. The game was about a 30-40 point game throughout. At the beginning of the second half the losing team opened the half with a half court shot. They would follow that up with a couple more mid-game half court shots. Also, they pulled up from well outside NBA range more than a few times. At one point they had the PG turn around and roll the ball out of bounds, granted they were trying to get subs in, but they still had two available timeouts. I will say the one bright spot is their manager was able to enter the game and make a couple of free throws. But to me it seemed they were trying to make a mockery of the game. They even made a couple of those ridiculous beyond NBA three pointers and went nuts. A kid checking in at the scores table even stood up threw up a "3" sign and took three steps towards the opposing teams bench staring down the coaches. Most of the shenanigans happened after their coach received a technical, I am not sure if that had something to do with it or not. I was just wondering has anyone seen anything like this before?
Has anyone seen something like this?
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You have to practice those shots just in case they bring out the 4-point and 5-point shooting spots like in Rock and Jock.
If I was the winning team, I would have ran the score up and it would have been well-deserved. What a joke...
Brings up the age-old question: Who calls off the dogs 1st? the team with the big lead or the team behind?
I think the running clock rule made it easier to decide WHEN it should happen.
I've seen Western's boys & girls teams start a lot of 3rd quarters with a running clock & there doesn't seem to be a clear-cut rule.
My personal preference:
Leading team pulls out the starters 1st. Losing team can run a couple possessions of starters against subs before bringing in their bench. No pressing on either side, but everyone needs to play hard for the entire game. Leading team maybe be a little more patient on offense & take fewer 3's.
There can be some good 4th quarter hoops if you just ignore the scoreboard & watch the scrub squads battle it out.
My personal beef: Western pulls their starters. Losing coach leaves his stud player, who was held well below his average, in the game until deep in the 4th quarter to pad his stats. Tacky move, & unfair to his bench players.
Beef #2: Student bodies who needle the coach into inserting a particular player & then cheer only for him to score. Everyone on the floor wants to participate & should get the crowd's support (with the exception of senior night, etc)
This post was edited on 2/10 3:28 PM by VanderHoops
I think the running clock rule made it easier to decide WHEN it should happen.
I've seen Western's boys & girls teams start a lot of 3rd quarters with a running clock & there doesn't seem to be a clear-cut rule.
My personal preference:
Leading team pulls out the starters 1st. Losing team can run a couple possessions of starters against subs before bringing in their bench. No pressing on either side, but everyone needs to play hard for the entire game. Leading team maybe be a little more patient on offense & take fewer 3's.
There can be some good 4th quarter hoops if you just ignore the scoreboard & watch the scrub squads battle it out.
My personal beef: Western pulls their starters. Losing coach leaves his stud player, who was held well below his average, in the game until deep in the 4th quarter to pad his stats. Tacky move, & unfair to his bench players.
Beef #2: Student bodies who needle the coach into inserting a particular player & then cheer only for him to score. Everyone on the floor wants to participate & should get the crowd's support (with the exception of senior night, etc)
This post was edited on 2/10 3:28 PM by VanderHoops
I was at a game the other day. It was in the siouxland conference. Wont name teams, but it was a top team in the conference vs a bottom team. The game in the first half was closer than expected maybe was a 2 or 3 point game at half. The top team made a run in the 2nd half and were up by 22 with 2 min to go. Both teams had starters in and it looked like the team with the 22 point lead had no intention of subbing. The team down by 22 called time out and subbed the last 5 guys on the bench in. The top team in the conference finally decided to as well after the losing team did first. I felt like that was a little bush league.
What I've seen around most programs in Sioux City is they start the seniors... it guarantees playing time and they also get to hear their names announced. In some cases it's been one possession, others it's been 1 minute. I've seen a few senior nights where the seniors have played well (for non-starters) and gotten a regular rotation worth of playing time before being subbed out for the game until it was no longer in doubt again. It might be different at a larger school or just a big class at a small school where they have more than 5 seniors, or if its a bigger game (ex: conference title) but in my experiences at least, that's how its been handled.
West Burlington threw a game against Danville at the end of the season in the name setting a 3 point attempt record in 2011 . Which they did (103 attempts) and were recognized in Sports Illustrated. But on the other hand, at the time, a lot of people thought the coach embarrassed the school district by not honestly competing just to get some dubious notoriety. If I remember they only made 8 of those 103 attempts. It was kind of funny, the coach had to manage his time outs to maximize the clock in a mercy rule situation and in that particular year I believe it was still running during free throws.
I disagree with this to a point. Most of the time if one team is beating another by 35 points the losing team's starters are relatively comparable to the winning team's reserves (give or take 10 points or so). I think it is absolutely fair for the losing coach to keep playing his starters against the reserves and then allow his reserves to play the final 4 minutes or so. As the losing coach, it does you no good to have your starters get pasted and then, when the winning team pulls it's best players, you do the same. I don't think that helps him get his team better.
Do you as a winning coach have such a big ego that you can't stand to win by 25 instead of 35 or more because the losing coach want his players to taste a little success? Besides, I would think you would want your reserves to get a "taste of Varsity" rather than have it easy against a bunch of pushovers.
i think these are slightly different scenarios. I have a problem with trying to pad stats. I agree with your assessment RoundMound, It's all about getting better. I just think these are slightly different.
My pet peeve is when the team winning pulls its starters and then the losing team puts on a full court press. If the losing coach wants to keep his starters in, great go ahead. Please, don't put a full court press on.
My pet peeve is when the team winning pulls its starters and then the losing team puts on a full court press. If the losing coach wants to keep his starters in, great go ahead. Please, don't put a full court press on.
In about game 4 or so of the season, a far superior team pulled it's starters with about 3 minutes to go and about a 20 point lead. The lesser team left its starters in and pressed the opposing subs for the remainder of the game. Got it down to a 5 point game final.
Normally I would have an issue with that. But for some reason, it didn't really bother me. Because it was early in the season, I really think the coach of the team that lost was trying to get his starters some work against equal or lesser competition. And as a fan of the team that won, I was good to see the subs get some pressure put on them, as preparation for later in the season.
So there a lot of other considerations. I would probably be more annoyed by it at game 18 than game 4.
Normally I would have an issue with that. But for some reason, it didn't really bother me. Because it was early in the season, I really think the coach of the team that lost was trying to get his starters some work against equal or lesser competition. And as a fan of the team that won, I was good to see the subs get some pressure put on them, as preparation for later in the season.
So there a lot of other considerations. I would probably be more annoyed by it at game 18 than game 4.
Saw that happen more than once this season.
My rule as far as pulling starters is anything under 25 points I will leave starters in until 2 minutes left or unless the losing team decides to take out its starters.
I would think if your way up why not play subs. Gives them game time and keeps their spirits up. Besides what if your stud player gets. hurt in a meaningless game at that point. This goes to all sports.
Disagree. If the winning team pulls their starters before the losing team has, then it means the losing team has not yet conceded victory. Those starters are still fighting for the win and should pull out all stops until shown otherwise. That is why the team who is down should pull their starters first. It is a clear sign that the game is in hand. It also puts the heat on the winning coach to pull his starters or look bad.
Are you ok with the winning team putting its starters back in and full court pressing? Even if they are up by 30, 40, 50?
I think we are talking different scenarios here. The original topic pertained to a situation when the score winning team was "up 30-40 throughout." I'm assuming the game was in running clock mode at or shortly after halftime. This wasn't a case of a fairly competitive game that gets out of hand late (6 pt game at half, but then the winning team goes up 20 with 4 minutes left for example). In that case, yes, I too feel it is up to the losing coach to raise the white flag.
However, when your starters are getting pasted (30-40 points) by the other team that is clearly better, I have no problem with the losing coach leaving starters in to get some time against more evenly matched competition. Think about it, if in this scenario the losing coach pulls his starters and the winning coach does the same, how do you think the losing team's reserves will do against the winning team's? You'd assume that if the starters were 30-40 points different the reserves would be similar.
Doesn't always happen where the JVs are similar to the varsity programs. I've seen a ton of JV/Varsity dates this year where the losing Varsity teams JV won the preliminary game, often times quite handily. Pure athleticism carries the day most of the time in JV games. The amount of development in a good weight program and basketball program vs a poor weight program and basketball program between a players freshman or sophomore season and their varsity years can be quite a dramatic jump. However, I do see your point. I am not familiar with you as a poster, but I'm assuming you come from a small school area. The sub-varsity and varsity levels tend to follow the same skills pattern much more closely at the small school level. A small school doesn't usually have the luxury of leaving talented and athletic underclassmen on the JV team.
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