Class A teams moving to 8 man in 2018

[your_master5]

Any opinions of schools that start sharing allowed a higher BEDS than non-sharing schools. MN uses total enrollment, they bump 9 player from 150 to 200 for sharing schools. (112 to 150 BEDS).

Might help small schools looking to share be able to share with the closest school. I have my doubts about how many kids would actually go 20-30 miles each way.

Why do they bump the enrollment for sharing schools? What is the rationale? What are the advantages of sharing a program with a neighboring district?

The disadvantages locally seems to be only two home games for each school (homecoming and senior night), reduced gate for athletic budget, kids getting bussed to practices and weight lifting, and parents over the politics of what school the 'coach' has ties to seems like a nightmare. From the state standpoint, you are now losing football programs, thus also losing gate come playoff time.

What are long term successful programs that share? Sigourney-Keota is the only one I can think of in SE Iowa. West Burlington-Notre Dame also shares, but the stories I hear from the Notre Dame parents I am acquaintances with definitely doesn't make it sound like a very good culture to be a part of. New London-Danville and Highland-Lone Tree have done it, but neither was able to sustain the success Sigourney-Keota has year in and year out.

 

[roosterk]

I think they have learned that the traveling school doesn't send very many players. I checked the roster on 1 eight player team, 21 on the roster, 15 I could identify thru quickstats as from the host school. Only 3 from the traveling school, 3 unknown. (40 minutes per google between HS's.) The traveling school is about 2/3's the size of host.

The traveling school never host games. Keota does Homecoming during basketball.

Sharing is the last resort to provide football to the kids.

I doubt the traveling school gets any money, they probably only provide busing and maybe an assistant coach that is driving the bus or van.

Some schools go JV only so the young kids are at lower risk and try to rebuild the numbers to try to keep it alive. That would be my preferred choice before putting them in a bus for almost an hour a day or more. And then they still have to get home.

 

[your_master5]

I think they have learned that the traveling school doesn't send very many players. I checked the roster on 1 eight player team, 21 on the roster, 15 I could identify thru quickstats as from the host school. Only 3 from the traveling school, 3 unknown. (40 minutes per google between HS's.) The traveling school is about 2/3's the size of host.

The traveling school never host games. Keota does Homecoming during basketball.

Sharing is the last resort to provide football to the kids.

I doubt the traveling school gets any money, they probably only provide busing and maybe an assistant coach that is driving the bus or van.

Some schools go JV only so the young kids are at lower risk and try to rebuild the numbers to try to keep it alive. That would be my preferred choice before putting them in a bus for almost an hour a day or more. And then they still have to get home.

Thanks for the post. That does make sense on the traveling school and not bringing as many kids to the program. I also think it probably make more sense to go the JV only route versus sharing to share.

I think a perfect example of the negatives of sharing is Collins-Maxwell and Baxter. Baxter (at least by competitiveness of 8 man games this year) provided all the athletes and talent, while CM struggled to even put points on the board. It made zero sense for the Baxter kids to play 2A football when independently they can play 8 man and brought the majority of the talent to the program.

 

[Football211]

Why do they bump the enrollment for sharing schools? What is the rationale? What are the advantages of sharing a program with a neighboring district?

The disadvantages locally seems to be only two home games for each school (homecoming and senior night), reduced gate for athletic budget, kids getting bussed to practices and weight lifting, and parents over the politics of what school the 'coach' has ties to seems like a nightmare. From the state standpoint, you are now losing football programs, thus also losing gate come playoff time.

What are long term successful programs that share? Sigourney-Keota is the only one I can think of in SE Iowa. West Burlington-Notre Dame also shares, but the stories I hear from the Notre Dame parents I am acquaintances with definitely doesn't make it sound like a very good culture to be a part of. New London-Danville and Highland-Lone Tree have done it, but neither was able to sustain the success Sigourney-Keota has year in and year out.

Funny you say that about S-K. It's true they have had lots of success in the past and are still relevant now, but almost every year Sigourney or Keota are always threatening to pull out of the partnership. This year there have been rumors that Keota wants to make their own 8 man team, but who knows.

 

[Iron Doc]

Does anyone out there hear concrete reports about parental/student CTE concerns reducing turnout #s?

I see that happening before too long, if it isn't happening already. The autopsy reports discussed on ESPN are scary.

 

[Parker D]

One problem I have with the way they determine eligibility for 8-man is how they do their count. BEDS counts all students in the 3 grades, but really, FB is for boys, so why not count boys? A school where a friend of mine coaches that had numbers problems the past couple of seasons (and will have low 20's next year IF everyone goes back out) that again won't qualify for 8-man because of one class that was counted last time and was counted again this time. They have more than 60 kids in that class, but more than 40 are girls.

 

[hawkeyetillidie]

One problem I have with the way they determine eligibility for 8-man is how they do their count. BEDS counts all students in the 3 grades, but really, FB is for boys, so why not count boys? A school where a friend of mine coaches that had numbers problems the past couple of seasons (and will have low 20's next year IF everyone goes back out) that again won't qualify for 8-man because of one class that was counted last time and was counted again this time. They have more than 60 kids in that class, but more than 40 are girls.

Because the PC crowd will say it’s sexist since girls are also allowed to play football. Even though as we all know, not enough girls play to influence many numbers. It makes sense to just count boys. If a few girls decide to play, so be it.

 

[Saywhat2]

If class A football gets dissolved it will be a dam shame honestly. Won't be fair to the teams that are crazy small n have a pride factor not to play 8man (because let's all be real 8 man is a joke and not real football, also horrible to watch). If anything revisit the issue with 8 man schools who have massive numbers out and make them bump up to class A. Great example is don bosco

Not real football? How much class A football have you watched? Other than maybe the top 15 teams, watching class A football is like watching JV on Friday night. The numbers of freshman and sophomore players forced to play because of low numbers is not very appealing to watch. Men against boys in many match ups.

 

[ronsss]

I would like to see 8man done away with. Consolidate with another. Play 11man

 

[Hwkfn1]

I would like to see 8man done away with. Consolidate with another. Play 11man

Why would you want to see 8-man done away with? If you don't like it, don't watch. As far as consolidating, many of the 8-man schools are 15-20 miles or more from their nearest school. That isn't very cost effective, nor does it give kids a sense of school pride. 8-man is different, but it is the same. It is still blocking and tackling. Different teams run different systems just like in 11-man.

 

[BTB138]

So one comment on here started about 8 man schools having 40+ kids out. I went to Midland (who is currently 8 man), when i was a freshman were had 18 kids out at the end of the season and we 0-9. The next year we dropped to 8-man, had 24 to start the year. We started competing for the first time in 3 years. The following year wee qualified for playoffs. The participation levels went up mostly because it was becoming "cool to play football again". Kids big/small, athletic/ not athletic decided to go out to be a part of something bigger, to go out and do something instead of going home and playing video games..... as to the dissolving class A, I don't see that happening abby time even in the distant future. With so many more teams dropping to 8- man I'd be more surprised if the state doesn't split it into 2 different 8 man classes while keeping A.. as to 8 man not being real football or not, watch a game and tell me what each position is doing. Recovers still block/ run routes, qbs still read defenses, running backs still run, just because it's a higher score doesn't mean there's no defense. 8 man mathematically is tougher to defend, more square yardage to defend per player. Yes, the field is 20 yards shorter and i believe 5-10 yards narrower but you also lose 3 defenders. I agree with the comment about looking at some of the 8 man players coming through high school and college like drew ott, nate Meier, Nathan bazata, etc they play a higher paced game so their motors are higher when transitioning back to 11 man in college

 

[BTB138]

I would like to see some of these A teams line up against the likes of don bosco, Fremont mills, or Midland and play a game of 8 man. It's not as simple as it looks. Hell Midland jv played Tipton jv and stomped them to the tune of 45-7

 

[GOPANTHERS23]

I would bet you anything you want wapsie would beat midland just as bad as they did when you was 11 man lol. Come on don’t brag about beating Tipton lol

 

[BTB138]

Not bragging, stating that the jump isn't as much of a cake walk as what's believed. And it would be alot different than it was then, the athletes here are going out for multiple sports instead of thinking they'll save themselves for 1 sport. Trust me i was on the sidelines for both of those asswhoopings, we were definately out muscled, out skilled, and just right out coached in both of those outings. Midland has come a long ways in 10 years in terms of developing players.. hell we went from the state's top passing attack last year to the top rushing offense this year. 2,800 yards is still 2,800 yards whether it' 11man or 8man.

 

[GOPANTHERS23]

Hey I will agree you guys have came a long ways but I think being down in 8 man has helped because the talent level isn’t as great. I think the top teams in A would completely dominate 8 man. That’s just my opinion. I will say this best of luck to midland against Don Bosco. I will be cheering for you guys hard to take that game. Also I congratulate you guys for turning your program into something the towns can be proud of.

 

[Iron Doc]

Iron Doc was on the staff at Corwith-Wesley-Luverne the last 7 years of its existence. They made the 8 man Semis twice in that time with VERY few numbers to work with. In addition, 8 man FB was GREAT to watch; it was like playing an old school pinball machine or watching the Iowa Barnstormers in the Kurt Warner days. NO ONE can tell Iron Doc that 8 player FB is substandard.

 

[Saywhat2]

I would like to see 8man done away with. Consolidate with another. Play 11man

g

Not gonna happen. Ever! Declining enrollment and lack of participation is going to make 8 man football the largest class in the very near future. Face it, football is being attacked on every level from the professional on down. In ten years you won't recognize the game as it is today. Or it was 20-30 years ago for that matter. Parents are already not allowing their kids to play. Add the "athletics as a forum to protest", even at the high school level, and you have a recipe for continued declining interest, leading to less money. I'll go out on a limb and predict high school based athletics will be a thing of the past in 15-20 years. It will all be club based. Yeah I know, I went on a tangent, but the club based sports is killing high school sports. It's all specialization. Ok. Rant over. Lol

 

[Hwkfn1]

g

Not gonna happen. Ever! Declining enrollment and lack of participation is going to make 8 man football the largest class in the very near future. Face it, football is being attacked on every level from the professional on down. In ten years you won't recognize the game as it is today. Or it was 20-30 years ago for that matter. Parents are already not allowing their kids to play. Add the "athletics as a forum to protest", even at the high school level, and you have a recipe for continued declining interest, leading to less money. I'll go out on a limb and predict high school based athletics will be a thing of the past in 15-20 years. It will all be club based. Yeah I know, I went on a tangent, but the club based sports is killing high school sports. It's all specialization. Ok. Rant over. Lol

Unfortunately I think you are you correct.

 

[Onthefarm]

g

Not gonna happen. Ever! Declining enrollment and lack of participation is going to make 8 man football the largest class in the very near future. Face it, football is being attacked on every level from the professional on down. In ten years you won't recognize the game as it is today. Or it was 20-30 years ago for that matter. Parents are already not allowing their kids to play. Add the "athletics as a forum to protest", even at the high school level, and you have a recipe for continued declining interest, leading to less money. I'll go out on a limb and predict high school based athletics will be a thing of the past in 15-20 years. It will all be club based. Yeah I know, I went on a tangent, but the club based sports is killing high school sports. It's all specialization. Ok. Rant over. Lol

Unfortunately I completely agree with you. Pay for play is ruining all sports. Athletes feel that they always should play no matter what, and if they don't then go to a different team that they can. Sports is about learning life lessons of disappointment and even failure at times and how you respond to that adversity. I had a coach call about a young man that was wrestling for me after the state tournament which shocked me because he was rated #2 and was upset in the first round. The coach explained how it was easy to wrestle on the front side of the bracket, but your true make-up of a champion is how you wrestle on the back side. That young man wrestled all the way back to earn third place the hard way. How you respond is what sports are supposed to be teaching our youth not how many 7th grade baseball games you won.

 

[Gasman247]

Unfortunately I completely agree with you. Pay for play is ruining all sports. Athletes feel that they always should play no matter what, and if they don't then go to a different team that they can. Sports is about learning life lessons of disappointment and even failure at times and how you respond to that adversity. I had a coach call about a young man that was wrestling for me after the state tournament which shocked me because he was rated #2 and was upset in the first round. The coach explained how it was easy to wrestle on the front side of the bracket, but your true make-up of a champion is how you wrestle on the back side. That young man wrestled all the way back to earn third place the hard way. How you respond is what sports are supposed to be teaching our youth not how many 7th grade baseball games you won.

Great perspective Onthefarm, that post was spot on!

 

[PNation]

Montezuma, by reading the article written about the school board meeting it sounded pretty heated. It also mentioned that the state is putting a December 4th deadline for schools to decide.

 

[Sev393]

Montezuma, by reading the article written about the school board meeting it sounded pretty heated. It also mentioned that the state is putting a December 4th deadline for schools to decide.

I can't keep track...was Montezuma a school that was "expected" to drop to 8 man? or is this a surprise?

What is everyone's best guess as far as how many teams will be in A?

 

[Zeek86]

I would guess it will be more than 60. Teams with BEDs of 160 to 120.....with some schools that are eligible for 8 man choosing to play up.

 

[roosterk]

http://montezumamagazine.com/braves-football-it-will-be-8-man/

http://www.thenewsharonsun.com/?q=content/nm-considers-8-man-football

http://www.kilj.com/wmu-special-board-meeting-re-8-man-football/

I think there were 62 this year, looks like 2 for sure Monte & G-R and 2 maybe's.

Don't know how Mormon Trails JV only season went so don't know if they'll be back.

I don't expect Cedar Valley Christian to return but who knows.

 

[roosterk]

SE Warren had a meeting back in August to discuss, but can find anything else.

New London's having a meeting tonight.


EDIT:

http://www.se-warren.k12.ia.us/pdf/board/minutes/2017-10-09.pdf

Looks like SE Warren is moving down.

 

[roosterk]

New London is going down. Announced last week.

Pretty sure Southeast Warren is since board approved it in August.

North Mahaska is staying board voted 3-2 to stay 11 player.

Winfield is going down.

 

[Gamefly]

Thought I would give this a bump as Rockford is playing in the 8 man championship game next week.

First season back in 8 man. If I remember right they had been playing 8 man for a few years, before getting bumped back to class A for two years. They had lost 23 straight games coming into this season a streak that went back to when they played 8 man prior to getting bumped to class A. Some of this could be inaccurate as I am trying to combine my memory, as a person in north iowa whose school used to play against the team, and what I have read.
Rockford also beat don bosco in the quarter finals. A team they hand lost to 80-6 in week 3. Evrything about this just blows my mind. 1st year head coach (prior assistant) to boot.

I also think I read that 3 of the 4 teams in the 8 man semis played 11 man ball last year. Maybe both teams in the championship did? Not entirely sure there.

Heres a nice article about the rockford turnaround. https://www.google.com/amp/s/globeg...ffdf4a4d-8d6a-519a-bac7-af16dcf648a4.amp.html

 

[Football211]

Thought I would give this a bump as Rockford is playing in the 8 man championship game next week.

First season back in 8 man. If I remember right they had been playing 8 man for a few years, before getting bumped back to class A for two years. They had lost 23 straight games coming into this season a streak that went back to when they played 8 man prior to getting bumped to class A. Some of this could be inaccurate as I am trying to combine my memory, as a person in north iowa whose school used to play against the team, and what I have read.
Rockford also beat don bosco in the quarter finals. A team they hand lost to 80-6 in week 3. Evrything about this just blows my mind. 1st year head coach (prior assistant) to boot.

I also think I read that 3 of the 4 teams in the 8 man semis played 11 man ball last year. Maybe both teams in the championship did? Not entirely sure there.

Heres a nice article about the rockford turnaround. https://www.google.com/amp/s/globeg...ffdf4a4d-8d6a-519a-bac7-af16dcf648a4.amp.html

Yes, New London was an A playoff team last year that returned most of their skill guys. Would've likely of been competing for a playoff spot in A this year, assuming they have a couple more lineman.

 

[Anonymous111]

It’s a huge jump from 8 man to class A. In every class there is a significant bump in talent. The top class A team (usually) would get beat pretty good by the top 1A team and so on and so forth. But I believe the jump from 8 man to class A may be the biggest jump in talent while the smallest jump is 1A to 2A.

 

[GarriganFan12]

Sadly, I believe next year will be the last season of 11 man football at bishop Garrigan

 

[GarriganFan12]

I meant next year being the final season. It will be the year after next that is 8 man