Carroll @ Heelan part II

[Crusader Power]

Should be a great game! Here is the pre-game article from SC Journal

http://siouxcityjournal.com/sports/high-school/football/heelan-carroll-set-for-rematch-in-the-quarterfinals/article_125b8de5-9812-586a-9cc3-b6f06cb4dc09.html

 

[oonfoofoo]

Is this another one of your posts that nobody pays attention to?

I will....Carroll wins this one in a nail biter. The only problem is Heelan should have been playing ADM and Carroll should be playing Creston ( or vice versa) WHAT A CROCK OF CRAP! That way the "weak" D8 could have gotten both of their teams in.

This post was edited on 11/7 11:25 AM by oonfoofoo

 

[wdmsportsguy]

Is ADM still alive in the playoffs? Somebody let Lou know--he needs another epic post!

 

[fmclonefan]

I had never heard, or seeked it out, how the first game went with Heelan and Carroll. Sounds like Carroll could have taken control of that game in the first half, but then it got away from them in a big way. This has the makings of a really good game. Crusader, I like the links that you provide as I don't hear or read much about Heelan on this side of the state. Has the makings of a pretty high scoring affair. Should be a very entertaining game to watch. I appreciate the Sioux City "Urinal's" take that this should be a dome game, but I think that might short change a bit the other 6 teams still alive. All good teams that are worthy of appearing in the dome as well.

I think the blow out games are probably done in Class 3A. Four good matchups tonight that all have the makings of being very close games. I would say the crown is still up for grabs, Heelan was the overwhelming favorite last year and delivered in a pronounced way. This year has more parity. Makes it more fun.

 

[slingitnow]

Let's be real, Heelan is a 4A school that's playing a 3A schedule...they should win more times then not! Heelan grow a set and play with the big boys. Wait a minute you did play S.C. East this year, how did that workout for you, they finished 4th in their 4A district.
This post was edited on 11/7 2:04 PM by slingitnow

 

[cidhawkeye]

Influx of students that the state missed?

 

[cruhawk]

Originally posted by slingitnow:



Let's be real, Heelan is a 4A school that's playing a 3A schedule...they should win more times then not! Heelan grow a set and play with the big boys. Wait a minute you did play S.C. East this year, how did that workout for you, they finished 4th in their 4A district.


This post was edited on 11/7 2:04 PM by slingitnow

FWIW, Heelan is a much better team than they were in the first game of the season. If there were to be a rematch between Heelan & East, the outcome would be quite different. From what I saw, Carroll is the best team Heelan has played yet this year. And didn't East's 4A district include both Valley & Dowling? A lot of good teams would finish behind those two this year
This post was edited on 11/7 11:35 PM by cruhawk

 

[cruhawk]

Originally posted by cidhawkeye:
Influx of students that the state missed?

Pretty sure he means that Heelan's program is at a high 4A level.

And there is much truth to that.

 

[Crusader Power]

Defensive battle and a couple of controversial calls... for those that care to read the post game article..


http://siouxcityjournal.com/sports/high-school/football/defense-carries-heelan-to-the-uni-dome/article_8fbd59b3-b7a6-5aa5-aea7-6a78eecca0a9.html

 

[loco60]

Wow...Heelan had -25 yards rushing according to the statistics in the article. I don't know how many teams win without positive rushing yards, but I can't recall a single example off the top of my head this deep in the playoffs.

It must have been a tense game as folks worried about breakout plays that may not have come to pass.

Negative rushing and headed for the UNIDome. WOW!

Carroll did lose 1 of 3 fumbles and threw two interceptions (one controversial). Heelan had just 8 first downs.

Tough battle.

 

[rillo 62]

Originally posted by Crusader Power:
Defensive battle and a couple of controversial calls... for those that care to read the post game article..

LOL at the Carroll coach. From the article:

t was an interception, just so they know,'' protested Carroll Coach Dennis McCartan. "(Christensen) was on his back with the ball. And, we got screwed on the one down there (a pass on which Heelan's Branden Hohenstein was credited with an interception at the Heelan 2). That was a touchdown. We took the ball away from them. That's two dual possessions, they got both of them, which is B.S., but whatever.''

 

[Diabolical]

Local News Station got a good clip of one of the questionable calls that Coach McCartan makes reference to. I can see it both ways, but there is no denying that it was controversial and key to Heelans win. This 37 yd TD Pass happened as Heelan was going into the 52 mph wind gust with 22 seconds remaining in the first half. I think most everyone assumed Heelan would take a knee and head in happy with a 7-0 lead. Instead Heelan was really aggressive and took some risks with their play calling and against all odds they went up 14-0. The SC Journal had it right. It was the back breaker. Heelan got extremly conservative in the second half with their play calling.

This post was edited on 11/8 10:20 PM by Diabolical

KTIV - Playoff Highlights

 

[captain_sparrow]

I guess I don't see at all how that play could go either way. Looks pretty cut and dry to me.

 

[La_Fleur]

How was that controversial at all? From the look of the video Diabolical posted it doesn't even look close

 

[ronsss]

heelans a force every year, just as well get use to it and is no surprise they are in the semis......now creston in the semis, that is a team i would never have picked...creston has seemed to be playing up a level than at the beginning of the year, at least thats what my 2 cents are thinking
This post was edited on 11/9 1:06 AM by ronsss

 

[loco60]

The touchdown pass video looks like a continuous play wherein the SCH receiver competes for the ball and wins the catch. It didn't seem as though the Carroll defender did anything with the ball that indicated possession.

There wasn't hesitation from the official who was in very good position.

 

[slingitnow]

cruhawk SCE finished 4th in their District and it did not have Valley in it. Just looked it up, the order of finish was Dowling, Council Bluffs Lewis Central ( think they moved up from 3A) Johnston followed by SCE.

I stand corrected Heelan needs to stay in 3A, lost by 10 to East who made the playoffs as a 4th seed. It would look terrible for Heelan a 3A Dome Team to not make the playoff in 4A.

 

[BigHawk]

Heelan would make the playoffs in 4A....but they can't compete with the 4A elites anymore...Dowling would name their score against anyone in 3A....Waukee and valley would have no trouble putting 50 on elite 3A teams. If Heelan thought they could compete yearly for 4A titles..they would still be there....simple as that

 

[cruhawk]

Originally posted by BigHawk:
Heelan would make the playoffs in 4A....but they can't compete with the 4A elites anymore...Dowling would name their score against anyone in 3A....Waukee and valley would have no trouble putting 50 on elite 3A teams. If Heelan thought they could compete yearly for 4A titles..they would still be there....simple as that

Not many (if any) facts in those statements. Lots of what-ifs & speculation. But I guess you are entitled to your opinion.

FWIW, neither of the two private schools in the 3A final four have great teams (by their standards) this year. If you ask any Heelan or Xavier observer, they'd tell you that these schools 2014 seasons were supposed to be off-years/rebuilding years after graduating dominant senior classes. And that's really how they're shaping up--again, by the standards of each program. In short: this is not a great Heelan team and this is not a great Xavier team. Good and solid (and starting to play some of their best ball of the year, at least in some areas such as defense), but not at the level of either of their 2013 teams. But with those schools playing 3A ball, they will almost always at least have a chance to get to the Dome--even in those (hopefully not common) off years. With that in mind, it's really a reach to say that the programs (not necessarily this year's teams) can't compete with the best 4A teams.

Using this year's Dowling team as a typical example of what would usually happen if a top 4A team played a top 3A team is a shaky proposition at best. As good as Dowling's program has been (especially recently), this is not a typical Dowling team. And this is not a typical year for 3A either, as many observers believe that 2014 is an off-year overall for the class.
This post was edited on 11/10 11:48 PM by cruhawk

 

[cruhawk]

Originally posted by slingitnow:
cruhawk SCE finished 4th in their District and it did not have Valley in it. Just looked it up, the order of finish was Dowling, Council Bluffs Lewis Central ( think they moved up from 3A) Johnston followed by SCE.

I stand corrected Heelan needs to stay in 3A, lost by 10 to East who made the playoffs as a 4th seed. It would look terrible for Heelan a 3A Dome Team to not make the playoff in 4A.

Again, and FWIW, I don't believe that East would beat Heelan if there would have been a rematch this year. Heelan is a much better team now than they were back in August. And East, predictably for them, faded in quality as the year went on.

Council Bluffs LC had a good run in those 4A playoffs; they were beaten--on the road--by Ankeny. They are not that far removed from playing in 3A. Would they have beaten Heelan, Xavier, or Pella this year? Probably not. When they played Heelan in the 3A playoffs in recent years, Heelan had their way with them, IIRC.

Again, speculation, as none of the games suggested have taken--or will take--place.

 

[loco60]

I think WDMD played CRX this year in the opener, a 24-2 win. CRX didn't bring much offense, but neither did WDMD. I don't think WDMD was in position to 50 point CRX.

I can't speculate on CRX vs WDMV or Waukee, or Bettendorf or CRW. However, CRX did defeat Bettendorf last year and was upset by CRW. That is a different team than this year.

CRX will play WDMD again next year, perhaps the Maroons will hang a 50 pointer on the Saints at Saints Field. Perhaps not. We'll see.

 

[KidSilverhair]

Originally posted by BigHawk:
Dowling would name their score against anyone in 3A....Waukee and valley would have no trouble putting 50 on elite 3A teams.

Yeah, this is just flat-out wrong. As loco mentioned, Dowling already played a 3A team, and did not "name their score." In fact, I think they had their worst offensive output of the year against that 3A team. Two of their three touchdowns came on a short field after interceptions. I think the score was just 14-2 well into the third quarter.

Is 4A overall better than 3A? Absolutely. But there's not that huge of a gap between the best teams in 3A and the top of 4A - certainly not as much of a gap as within 4A itself.

 

[crus8rs]

Heelan is 3A to stay, best get used to it,,,,,their enrollment puts them there, thats where they belong. Best of luck to them and the rest of the field the next couple weeks...love to see Heelan vs Xavier final! also,,, hello to Crusader Power...see you there next week??

 

[slingitnow]

You're right and I'm wrong, Heelan does belongs in 3A both from enrollment and caliber of performance, would not crack the top 10 in 4A this year or in most years. It's easy to say Heelan would beat SC East if they played again ( b.s. talk) however the record show a loss to East who squeaked into the playoffs. Moving on now!

 

[cruhawk]

Originally posted by slingitnow:



Moving on now!

That might just be the smartest thing you could do here.

 

[cruhawk]

Originally posted by crus8rs:
Heelan is 3A to stay, best get used to it,,,,,their enrollment puts them there, thats where they belong. Best of luck to them and the rest of the field the next couple weeks...love to see Heelan vs Xavier final! also,,, hello to Crusader Power...see you there next week??

Their enrollment has "put them there" since the early 80's. But between then and when they officially went 3A in '06, they were in the 4A title game six times, winning once and finishing second five times. So....what's your point?


I wouldn't be so sure that they are "there to stay". The enrollment has been going up steadily, and as the new facilities continue to become a reality, that trend should not only continue, but accelerate.

 

[slingitnow]

My point is you're right, they belong in 3A where I'm certain they will be competitive. As for the past you enjoy speaking about, the Yankee's won a lot of championships 10 years ago too. You should be proud of the past but certainly not an indicator of how you would do in today's 4A. Good luck rebounding against SC East next year, not sure if East will be any better then 4th in their district ( where they finished this year and beat you by an easy 10, could/should have been 21) but in any event a good test for 3A Heelan.

 

[cruhawk]

Originally posted by slingitnow:

My point is you're right, they belong in 3A where I'm certain they will be competitive. As for the past you enjoy speaking about, the Yankee's won a lot of championships 10 years ago too. You should be proud of the past but certainly not an indicator of how you would do in today's 4A. Good luck rebounding against SC East next year, not sure if East will be any better then 4th in their district ( where they finished this year and beat you by an easy 10, could/should have been 21) but in any event a good test for 3A Heelan.

Naw...you missed the point (completely) again. The point was that enrollment numbers have little to do with how a private school succeeds. And all the evidence shows that. Assumption, with a 2A level enrollment for a number of years, was consistently among the best 4A teams in the state. Even Dowling, at 1000-1100 students, is dwarfed by most of the schools they play. But none of that matters. And Heelan's 4A past was referenced only because it is further evidence of this. Even though it had absolutely nothing to do with that point, the implication that Heelan--or any other top 3A team--wouldn't do well in "today's" 4A (whatever the heck that means) is beyond ludicrous. East? Heelan usually more than takes the measure of them when they do play. No, they shouldn't have "won by 21" this year...they were fortunate to win at all. And they most certainly wouldn't in a rematch.

 

[slingitnow]

Enjoy the debate.. I do want to congratulate Heelan on an impressive win last night, looked like total domination and wish them the best in the finals... being serious.

 

[BigHawk]

cru

Funny how you say I'm not using any facts....where are yours? The only fact is that east beat Heelan the only time they played....and I said....that Heelan would not lose a game until they got to the dome...if even then. Heelan plays in a weak at best district...so let's not fall all over ourselves talking about how much better Heelan is now than then. Guess what..east got better this year also but they played multiple teams that were far superior to Heelan.

If you don't think Dowling, Waukee, Johnston...and even Lewis central were better than Heelan right now....take your blinders off

I told you after East beat Heelan ..Heelan would be just fine. Neither team played all that great that night...so if you are saying Heelan beats them in a rematch....is that "fact" based?

If Heelan thought they could beat those teams..they would still be in 4A

 

[cruhawk]

I'm sure that Heelan believes they could play with those teams now; being in 3A has nothing to do with it. They've had a number of teams since joining 3A that could have contended for the 4A title.

But as long as we're on the "facts" here, let's clear up a few errors in your latest comment. 1.) "Heelan would make the playoffs in 4A". That's not a fact, but an opinion. I do happen to agree with it, but it is just an opinion. 2.) "Heelan can't compete against the 4A elites anymore". Pretty much an opinion there, too. 3.) "Dowling would name their score against anyone in 3A". Against, just an opinion as Dowling hasn't played any 3A teams except Xavier, and they didn't exactly "name the score" against them. In fact, Pella was more convincing against CRX than Dowling was, which renders the notion that WDMD would "name their score" even shakier. 4.) "Waukee and Valley would have no trouble putting 50 on elite 3A teams". Another opinion, and a debatable one at that. FWIW, bcmoore's power rankings have Pella ranked third in the state overall, and Heelan ranked seventh overall. Common sense alone doesn't favor a 50-pt scenario if those teams were to meet. 5.) "If Heelan thought they could compete yearly for 4A titles..they would still be there....simple as that." Again, you guessed it, an...opinion. In 3A, they certainly have a better chance to "compete yearly" for titles (this was considered a rebuilding year for Heelan by most observers, but they've put things together solidly enough to get another title). But they weren't doing poorly in 4A, and as mentioned before, they've had teams good enough to win the 4A title.
This post was edited on 11/15 1:02 PM by cruhawk

 

[BigHawk]

Like I said......the only fact offered by either of us is East beat Heelan..31-21. Nothing more to argue.

 

[slingitnow]

Amen to that