A article to read about IAHSAA football playoff system needs tweaking, again

[adambadger]

Here is a article written by prep sports beat writer Matt Coss about the IAHSAA football playoff system that still needs tweaking. The article was published on October 5, 2016.

http://qctimes.com/sports/high-scho...cle_840b3a07-9c60-51a6-b761-1fffd48a80cc.html

 

[DSM SPORTS FAN]

I agree with the writer, somewhere between 16 and 32 makes sense

 

[adambadger]

I agree! The playoffs need some tweaking with the points system and going back to a bracketed system instead of whom they pick each team to play for each round.

If I was in control, I would bump up the regular season to one week earlier and still have it be a nine-game regular-season.

If they want it to stay at 16-teams as it is now or go to 24-teams to come play when the playoffs begin -- I am in favor of that. Do not go back to making it a 32-team playoff tournament.

If I was in control, I would also make all the games count towards the playoffs including the non-district games.

 

[ISUChip]

Interesting that Coss is condemning a system despite having literally ZERO data.

Maybe we should just abolish the playoffs -- that way nobody can complain about being left out. No, wait...that doesn't fit with the "everybody gets a trophy" society.

Maybe 7 regular-season games, then everybody gets in to the postseason like the other sports (hooray, no hurt feelings!). Classes of 64, districts of 8, no non-district games. Play only against your district, then all teams get cross-bracketed with another district. Maximum of 13 games possible, and still finish on the same date as normal.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

Interesting that Coss is condemning a system despite having literally ZERO data.

Maybe we should just abolish the playoffs -- that way nobody can complain about being left out. No, wait...that doesn't fit with the "everybody gets a trophy" society.

Maybe 7 regular-season games, then everybody gets in to the postseason like the other sports (hooray, no hurt feelings!). Classes of 64, districts of 8, no non-district games. Play only against your district, then all teams get cross-bracketed with another district. Maximum of 13 games possible, and still finish on the same date as normal.

Other states do it and I think its kind of cool. Indiana is one that does it and I watched their preview/selection show. Its great because it pairs teams locally so there are no long drives. It also allows teams who have not won a game all year, to play someone of the same caliber. Its basically the last 2 weeks of the season and shrink the field from 64 to 16 by the time playoffs start.

Also it means that every game means something in the regular season. You get 7 games and if you want a high seed you have to win them all. I have heard coaches say that non-district games in Iowa mean nothing. Why even play them if they mean nothing, whats the point? It seems like every coach focuses on the district games and that's it.

I understand the lower levels only getting 7 games, but w/football I think 7 games is a perfect # of games. These kids do not need to be playing 10-11 games in JH or JV. Everyone says games are vital to players development, sorry but practices are more important. I would suggest they play their 7 game schedule and if the school wants to schedule an 8th game, they pair up with the school that their Varsity plays. That way it gives them a chance to play someone new and kind of a playoff format.

The old system was horrible (Wed, Mon, Fri, Fri, Fri). That was way too much football in a too short of time. I would also suggest maybe playing the Championship games on Thanksgiving Break. Other states do it and it allows families to travel to the games and students aren't missing school like the old format. I realize its only done because the IAHSAA big wigs don't like to work over the Holidays (no basketball tournaments over christmas break).

But that's just my opinion. I don't get paid to make the big decisions.

 

[KidSilverhair]

I think 24 is a pretty good number. Unfortunately, the IAHSAA has a real problem with bye weeks for anybody, so that would be one obstacle to overcome. But there's a bigger one ... the calendar.

There are only 13 Fridays from the start of school in late August until the week before Thanksgiving. You simply cannot fit a 9-game regular season and five rounds of playoffs into that window, not while keeping a week between games. So what do you do?

- Squeeze the five playoff rounds into four weeks. We've done this for the past several years, but there are good injury-related reasons to not ever do it again.

- Start the season a week earlier. This is probably the best scenario available, but there are, of course, issues with starting varsity contests before school is in session.

- Have the later playoff rounds somewhere besides the UNI Dome. Since UNI will not make the dome available Thanksgiving weekend, the only option to extend the playoffs another week would be to play somewhere else, which means outside. I personally don't have a big issue with this, but I'm not the one counting on the ticket sales for indoor playoff games in November. I don't see this one happening.

- Reduce the number of regular season games. You could go to 8 games for everybody, start the first round of playoffs on what is now Week 9, and everything fits. That means schools lose a home gate every other year, which makes this choice somewhat unlikely as well. I have mentioned before my idea of basically doing this (start the playoffs Week 9) but then scheduling the non-qualifiers to play each other that same week, which guarantees everyone 9 games every year. That would have financial issues of its own. There's also the Indiana model of 7 regular season games, then every team gets seeded to start the playoffs on what is now Week 8. That still guarantees everyone 8 games (but only 3 or 4 home gates per year, so this probably ain't happening, either).
​

As far as the bye-week issue goes, the only real problem with 32 playoff qualifiers was in 4A. Since they had such a smaller number of teams from the other classes - fewer than 48 until this year - 32 was a silly number for them to use. For the other classes, that's half. That's probably too many, as you didn't see very many 8 seeds win their first round game, but it's not ridiculous. I still think 24 is probably a really good number, but I don't know how the state would get around their reluctance to use bye weeks.

 

[KidSilverhair]

I would also suggest maybe playing the Championship games on Thanksgiving Break. Other states do it and it allows families to travel to the games and students aren't missing school like the old format. I realize its only done because the IAHSAA big wigs don't like to work over the Holidays (no basketball tournaments over christmas break).

As I understand it it's mainly because UNI won't allow use of the dome Thanksgiving weekend, for their own possible playoff purposes. I don't know if there might be a possibility to play the championship games earlier in that week (maybe Tuesday and Wednesday), which of course affects when you schedule the semifinals the week before, too. But I believe UNI won't allow the IAHSAA to reserve the dome for the Friday and Saturday after Thanksgiving.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

As I understand it it's mainly because UNI won't allow use of the dome Thanksgiving weekend, for their own possible playoff purposes. I don't know if there might be a possibility to play the championship games earlier in that week (maybe Tuesday and Wednesday), which of course affects when you schedule the semifinals the week before, too. But I believe UNI won't allow the IAHSAA to reserve the dome for the Friday and Saturday after Thanksgiving.

I thought the same thing as well, but they could play the games during the day on Friday and leave Friday night open for UNI play off game and then go on Saturday. Or if UNI play on Saturday go 4 games on Friday (10:00-1, 4, and 7). And then 9-12. Then have a 5pm kick that Saturday. I realize TV sets all deals for Div 1 (FBS & FCS), but there has to be some wiggle room.

Also if that's the case, why not move the Championships from the UNI Dome to Kinnick, Ames, or Drake Stadium. I realize it would depend on the schedules of both Iowa (@ Nebbie or home vs Nebbie), ISU (home or away), and Drake. But allow for the games to be played that weekend. Illinois does it and I think its pretty cool. They play 4 games Friday and 4 games Saturday. Obviously Iowa only has 6 games, so the could do 4 and 2 or 3-3.

I just think cutting this down from 32 to 16 is going to kill some teams. I saw where if a team that is 8-0 loses by 10 this week, they will MISS the playoffs? How does an 8-1 teams miss the playoffs. That is pretty sad and pathetic on part of the IAHSAA. They have to get creative to accommodate more teams. Illinois does it, Indiana does it, why can't Iowa.

 

[PNation]

It's not UNI as much as the NCAA, if you hosts a first round playoff game, then the NCAA essentially takes over the facility from Thursday night until after the game on Saturday. It has been rumored that FCS football may push back the start of their playoffs a week, which would allow a 5 week playoff in Iowa, but until that happens I don't think much would change, unless they went.

1st Round Friday
2nd round Thursday or Friday (let teams playing decide)
Quarters Thursday or Friday (let teams playing decide)
Semifinals Tuesday,Wednesday, Thursday
Championship games Tuesday and Wednesday before Thanksgiving

I think the title games right before Thanksgiving would still draw, I am not sure about the semis though

 

[DavenportHawk8]

It's not UNI as much as the NCAA, if you hosts a first round playoff game, then the NCAA essentially takes over the facility from Thursday night until after the game on Saturday. It has been rumored that FCS football may push back the start of their playoffs a week, which would allow a 5 week playoff in Iowa, but until that happens I don't think much would change, unless they went.

1st Round Friday
2nd round Thursday or Friday (let teams playing decide)
Quarters Thursday or Friday (let teams playing decide)
Semifinals Tuesday,Wednesday, Thursday
Championship games Tuesday and Wednesday before Thanksgiving

I think the title games right before Thanksgiving would still draw, I am not sure about the semis though

I would be okay with that. I think the IAHSAA is too old fashioned and won't change for some reason. I liked the change to 32 teams, but then all you heard was complaining from people associated with the IAHSAA and some coaches. Then you cut it back to 16 and now I am hearing rumblings from several coaches about teams not making it and what not. I do like the fact they changed the playoff schedule to every Friday and are also having a "TV pairings" show. I think that's good for the state. But 16 out of 48 teams is not enough. 16 out of 56 is not enough. They have to do something. I feel that a team that is 5-4 should get in.

So I don't know what the state can do, but if an 8-1 team or 7-2 team gets left out of the playoffs there will be a storm a brewing.

 

[IowaHSFootballFan]

I would strongly disagree that a team that is 5-4 should get in. Was this an issue before the change to 32 teams? I can't remember.

If there used to be 8 districts then why don't they just change back to that, and get rid of the 2 at large teams like it used to be? I don't recall any issues back then. That also leads me to my next question - are we going to constantly fight this issue until the class structure makes more sense? Seems to me we can't have a solid post-season structure without first having a solid regular season structure (8 Districts instead of 7) and we can't have a solid regular season structure without a solid class structure.

I don't think that the small 3A schools can compete in the playoffs with these big 3A schools that have enough kids to play the one way.

 

[roosterk]

11 teams in 3a that made it in last year had 4 or more losses. If anything, reduce non-district games, go to 6 districts, 4 with 9 teams, 2 with 10. 1 and 2 automatic and 4 wild cards. I think 16 teams is plenty. 10 team district, no non district games, other 4 have one game that doesn't matter.

The odds of 3 districts having a 3 way tie for first is the only way a 1 loss district team won't make it in are pretty slim.

 

[El_Doce]

I would strongly disagree that a team that is 5-4 should get in. Was this an issue before the change to 32 teams? I can't remember.

If there used to be 8 districts then why don't they just change back to that, and get rid of the 2 at large teams like it used to be? I don't recall any issues back then. That also leads me to my next question - are we going to constantly fight this issue until the class structure makes more sense? Seems to me we can't have a solid post-season structure without first having a solid regular season structure (8 Districts instead of 7) and we can't have a solid regular season structure without a solid class structure.

I don't think that the small 3A schools can compete in the playoffs with these big 3A schools that have enough kids to play the one way.

Even larger schools like Pella have multiple kids playing both ways. I certainly don't agree that a 5-4 team should make the playoffs. I know it rules out the late bloomers, but that should just encourage preparation.

 

[paxregis]

I would strongly disagree that a team that is 5-4 should get in. Was this an issue before the change to 32 teams? I can't remember.

If there used to be 8 districts then why don't they just change back to that, and get rid of the 2 at large teams like it used to be? I don't recall any issues back then. That also leads me to my next question - are we going to constantly fight this issue until the class structure makes more sense? Seems to me we can't have a solid post-season structure without first having a solid regular season structure (8 Districts instead of 7) and we can't have a solid regular season structure without a solid class structure.

I don't think that the small 3A schools can compete in the playoffs with these big 3A schools that have enough kids to play the one way.

The coaches choose the 7 districts of 8 teams to avoid playing a non-district game after week 2.

 

[IOU1]

Can we all agree that 4A is a different monster all-together and what might work for 3A-1A probably is NOT a good fit for 4A...similarly, if something 'works' for 4A it might not be a good fit for the rest. If we can agree on that, then I would like to see 3A increased to 64 teams. 8 Districts of 8. 2 designated as NE, 2 as SE, 2 as SW and 2 as NW.
Week 1 is a non-district game.
Weeks 2-8 are your 7 district games.
Bracket all 16 teams in each region based on District Standings.
Week 9...all 64 teams are playing in the "1st Round" of a regional bracketed tournament...1's v 8's, 2's v 7's, etc.
Week 10...32 teams - Week 11...16 teams - Week 12...Top 8 - Week 13...Top 4 - Week 14...Championship.

All teams still get to play 9 games. All teams get a shot at being a Cinderella story. Season still takes 14 weeks start to finish. All teams could have 4 games on the road and 4 games at home for regular season. Boone takes all of the Week 9 gates and splits it evenly amongst all 64 schools. District Champions would not face off until the Quarter Finals. A District with a really strong #1 and #2 would not rematch until the Quarters either.
I am sure that there is a flaw in my thinking someplace, but it makes a ton of sense to me.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

Can we all agree that 4A is a different monster all-together and what might work for 3A-1A probably is NOT a good fit for 4A...similarly, if something 'works' for 4A it might not be a good fit for the rest. If we can agree on that, then I would like to see 3A increased to 64 teams. 8 Districts of 8. 2 designated as NE, 2 as SE, 2 as SW and 2 as NW.
Week 1 is a non-district game.
Weeks 2-8 are your 7 district games.
Bracket all 16 teams in each region based on District Standings.
Week 9...all 64 teams are playing in the "1st Round" of a regional bracketed tournament...1's v 8's, 2's v 7's, etc.
Week 10...32 teams - Week 11...16 teams - Week 12...Top 8 - Week 13...Top 4 - Week 14...Championship.

All teams still get to play 9 games. All teams get a shot at being a Cinderella story. Season still takes 14 weeks start to finish. All teams could have 4 games on the road and 4 games at home for regular season. Boone takes all of the Week 9 gates and splits it evenly amongst all 64 schools. District Champions would not face off until the Quarter Finals. A District with a really strong #1 and #2 would not rematch until the Quarters either.
I am sure that there is a flaw in my thinking someplace, but it makes a ton of sense to me.

This is a good idea. I just think of the current set up, what's the point of playing these week 9 games? I went to a game tonight and there was I believe 6 or 7 personal foul penalties. The game was between 2 teams who had no shot of post-season. There was a lot of pushing and shoving and just made it tough to watch. I think if every team has a shot, then you won't have these "ugly" games going on. Give every team something to play for.

 

[IowaHSFootballFan]

Every team has something to play for and that starts week one. Classless teams will play ugly football regardless of the playoff format. Why reward them with the playoffs if they can't get it done from week one to week nine? That's a joke... I'm so tired of such a loser mentality on here. 16 teams is right where it needs to be. Maybe if some of these teams had cleaned up their act they would be in the playoffs as an at large or maybe even to represent the district as the champ or runner up.

A game that features two teams with 7 personal foul penalties between the two is a game that features two terrible programs with terrible leadership. Those teams with those types of kids/coaches don't deserve the playoffs, and I feel sorry for anyone that thinks otherwise. Those programs need to change themselves for them to make it into this playoff format... The playoff format should never change for them.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

Every team has something to play for and that starts week one. Classless teams will play ugly football regardless of the playoff format. Why reward them with the playoffs if they can't get it done from week one to week nine? That's a joke... I'm so tired of such a loser mentality on here. 16 teams is right where it needs to be. Maybe if some of these teams had cleaned up their act they would be in the playoffs as an at large or maybe even to represent the district as the champ or runner up.
So your okay with a 8-1 and several 6-3 teams missing the playoffs? I mean in 8 man team A went 8-1 and did not get in. They beat 1 of the teams that got the "at-large" birth 55-14 earlier in the season. Also in 4A several teams got left out with 6-3 records. These teams had 1-2 losses in district play. So by this current format why even play non-district games. Their entire season comes down to 5 games and that's it. Whats the point in playing the other 4 games. They do nothing for you or your team.

Also the district format in 4A is a joke. How can Cedar Falls, Clinton, and others get left out after going 6-3 and meanwhile in District 7 the two winners of that district were 5-4. How is that fair that the worst district gets two teams in and meanwhile there are other decent teams in other districts left out. The state has to fix that issue. Sorry but could you imagine if the scenario with Waterloo West played out? #6 team in 4A could of been left out of the playoffs at 8-1. It was a possibility up until last week.

A game that features two teams with 7 personal foul penalties between the two is a game that features two terrible programs with terrible leadership. Those teams with those types of kids/coaches don't deserve the playoffs, and I feel sorry for anyone that thinks otherwise. Those programs need to change themselves for them to make it into this playoff format... The playoff format should never change for them.
I have seen several games end like this. Before they expanded the playoff to 32, there were several games that were out of control. Players had nothing to play for and were trying to get cheap shots in. When they expanded it, a lot of games in weeks 8 & 9 still meant something. Under the old format teams still had something to play for (next weeks game). There have been several upsets under the old format where teams that were 8-1 or 7-2 lost to teams with 3-6 or 4-5 records. These past two weeks you could tell there were teams who gave up or didn't care. Waterloo East couldn't even field a team.

I think the state has to change the playoff format or the qualifying. Teams that are 6-3 should not miss because a team that is 5-4 got in over them. Also if they are going to put so much weight on district games, then just axe the non-district games or cut them back. What is the point in playing them if they mean nothing. Some schools in 4A didnt' start district play until the last week in September, makes zero sense.

 

[FLBP]

Every team has something to play for and that starts week one. Classless teams will play ugly football regardless of the playoff format. Why reward them with the playoffs if they can't get it done from week one to week nine? That's a joke... I'm so tired of such a loser mentality on here. 16 teams is right where it needs to be. Maybe if some of these teams had cleaned up their act they would be in the playoffs as an at large or maybe even to represent the district as the champ or runner up.

A game that features two teams with 7 personal foul penalties between the two is a game that features two terrible programs with terrible leadership. Those teams with those types of kids/coaches don't deserve the playoffs, and I feel sorry for anyone that thinks otherwise. Those programs need to change themselves for them to make it into this playoff format... The playoff format should never change for them.

Agree with you 100%, you have horrible leadership and undisciplined players if this is happening.

 

[brewcrewman1]

Maybe they should do what Nebraska does...8 District champs and 8 wildcard teams. Not saying that is the answer but worth a look IMO.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

Maybe they should do what Nebraska does...8 District champs and 8 wildcard teams. Not saying that is the answer but worth a look IMO.

I just think 16 is to few of teams. Especially when the districts are unbalanced. I mean in 4A you have 1 district where two teams got in at 5-4 and you have other districts where teams that were 6-3 were left at home.

Also they have a team that is 8-1 traveling to a 5-4 team. Makes zero sense and I realize the "home field" goes to a district champion.

Its not a good system where in 8 man a team that is losing the game sits on the ball and doesn't score on PURPOSE because if they did, they might of lost their chance at the playoffs. Just like a shot clock in basketball, the IAHSAA is so far behind the times its not even funny.

 

[adambadger]

I'm having a feeling it will be tweaked for 2018 & 2019. But we will not see a Wednesday, Monday, Friday span of games played ever again.

 

[adambadger]

Here is another good article to read about the 2016 & 2017 postseason perspective by Des Moines Register beat writer Cody Goodwin. http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...-school-football-playoffs-takeaways/92590478/

 

[IowaHSFootballFan]

I wonder what he believes would be more fair to Pella...

Overall record? That's not fair because teams would schedule easy non-district.

Point differential? Both teams were +17 in district play.

Common opponent? Both teams beat Oskaloosa. Pella won by 24 and Solon won by 31.

I'd be willing to bet that if Solon had to travel to Pella there would be no argument for unfairness on Solon's end. Which is what will happen next year if this same scenario were to come up. If Xavier had to travel to West Delaware (assuming they win) because it was first alphabetical, I can possibly see an issue with that since West Delaware lost in district play.

Very funny stuff to me. Good article, but do your homework before claiming something like that to be unfair. There is enough complaining about the playoff format, this is something that has no grounds for discussion.

 

[KidSilverhair]

Your Xavier-West Delaware point falls apart because, since WD did lose a district game and Xavier didn't, Xavier gets home field regardless of alphabet (it goes district finish, district record, head-to-head, then alphabet for determining playoff sites). Xavier gets the nod alphabetically this year, anyway (they're listed as Xavier, Cedar Rapids, so that comes after West Delaware).

I haven't read the Register article yet, but if his point is it's unfair for Pella to travel - that's the way the cookie crumbles. As far as the IHSAA is concerned, every district champion with a 7-0 district record is exactly the same, so you'll use something random like the alphabet to determine home field. Pella had to go to Assumption last year because it was alphabetical order, this year they may have to go to Solon because it's reverse alphabetical order ... that's what random means.

How else would the writer want to determine rankings of teams with the exact same district finish and records? Point differential (as you note, they're the same in this case)? A bunch of sportwriters in the AP poll? The general feelings of fans statewide about who deserves home field more? The alphabetical system isn't perfect, but it's random, and even more so going forward because they aren't necessarily going to start with 'A' every year. Suppose they'd drawn 'R' at the beginning of the year to start with, and used reverse alphabetical order. Solon would have to go to Pella due to the alphabetic system. Is that any more "fair"? Random is random.

 

[IowaHSFootballFan]

Your Xavier-West Delaware point falls apart because, since WD did lose a district game and Xavier didn't, Xavier gets home field regardless of alphabet (it goes district finish, district record, head-to-head, then alphabet for determining playoff sites). Xavier gets the nod alphabetically this year, anyway (they're listed as Xavier, Cedar Rapids, so that comes after West Delaware).

Okay, so the author did less than I did to make a point. He failed to mention that Pella and Solon are equal in all on-field criteria, thus leading to the alphabet to decide home field. Even less unfair..

I don't write for a newspaper, so I'm excused

 

[El_Doce]

I wonder what he believes would be more fair to Pella...

Overall record? That's not fair because teams would schedule easy non-district.

Point differential? Both teams were +17 in district play.

Common opponent? Both teams beat Oskaloosa. Pella won by 24 and Solon won by 31.

I'd be willing to bet that if Solon had to travel to Pella there would be no argument for unfairness on Solon's end. Which is what will happen next year if this same scenario were to come up. If Xavier had to travel to West Delaware (assuming they win) because it was first alphabetical, I can possibly see an issue with that since West Delaware lost in district play.

Very funny stuff to me. Good article, but do your homework before claiming something like that to be unfair. There is enough complaining about the playoff format, this is something that has no grounds for discussion.

Agreed, I don't think this is a "fairness issue". I don't think Pella really cares. They traveled 3 hrs to play Assumption last year, so Solon will not be a burden. Both sites have nice facilities. (This is if they both win), actually so does Osky, haven't been to Benton.

Still doesnt make sense that they don't do some time of seeding. Why does WD get the "at

Your Xavier-West Delaware point falls apart because, since WD did lose a district game and Xavier didn't, Xavier gets home field regardless of alphabet (it goes district finish, district record, head-to-head, then alphabet for determining playoff sites). Xavier gets the nod alphabetically this year, anyway (they're listed as Xavier, Cedar Rapids, so that comes after West Delaware).

I haven't read the Register article yet, but if his point is it's unfair for Pella to travel - that's the way the cookie crumbles. As far as the IHSAA is concerned, every district champion with a 7-0 district record is exactly the same, so you'll use something random like the alphabet to determine home field. Pella had to go to Assumption last year because it was alphabetical order, this year they may have to go to Solon because it's reverse alphabetical order ... that's what random means.

How else would the writer want to determine rankings of teams with the exact same district finish and records? Point differential (as you note, they're the same in this case)? A bunch of sportwriters in the AP poll? The general feelings of fans statewide about who deserves home field more? The alphabetical system isn't perfect, but it's random, and even more so going forward because they aren't necessarily going to start with 'A' every year. Suppose they'd drawn 'R' at the beginning of the year to start with, and used reverse alphabetical order. Solon would have to go to Pella due to the alphabetic system. Is that any more "fair"? Random is random.

Ok, statistically speaking its not random, just because they reverse the order, but thats probably not worth debating. At least they are trying to do something different to keep the same teams each year having a home game. No system will be perfect. I doubt Pella cares, Haven't really seen any evidence that they play better at home or away. That's round 2 and they have to win round 1 first.

I don't understand why Solon or Pella woudn't get to play WSR first since thy have the better district records over WD? Xavier would be excluded b/c they are same district. Sending Benton to Pella, Osky to WD and WSR to Solon would have removed the Osky-Pella rematch and made more sense.

 

[El_Doce]

Agreed, I don't think this is a "fairness issue". I don't think Pella really cares. They traveled 3 hrs to play Assumption last year, so Solon will not be a burden. Both sites have nice facilities. (This is if they both win), actually so does Osky, haven't been to Benton.

Still doesnt make sense that they don't do some time of seeding. Why does WD get the "at

Ok, statistically speaking its not random, just because they reverse the order, but thats probably not worth debating. At least they are trying to do something different to keep the same teams each year having a home game. No system will be perfect. I doubt Pella cares, Haven't really seen any evidence that they play better at home or away. That's round 2 and they have to win round 1 first.

I don't understand why Solon or Pella woudn't get to play WSR first since thy have the better district records over WD? Xavier would be excluded b/c they are same district. Sending Benton to Pella, Osky to WD and WSR to Solon would have removed the Osky-Pella rematch and made more sense.

Sorry for the mpd response, thought my initial was deleted

 

[Robert John]

I just think 16 is to few of teams. Especially when the districts are unbalanced. I mean in 4A you have 1 district where two teams got in at 5-4 and you have other districts where teams that were 6-3 were left at home.

Also they have a team that is 8-1 traveling to a 5-4 team. Makes zero sense and I realize the "home field" goes to a district champion.

Its not a good system where in 8 man a team that is losing the game sits on the ball and doesn't score on PURPOSE because if they did, they might of lost their chance at the playoffs. Just like a shot clock in basketball, the IAHSAA is so far behind the times its not even funny.

I missed this 8 man scenario. Could you please provide the details? Thanks.

 

[KidSilverhair]

I didn't mean it was truly random, that was probably the wrong word to use. You've got to have a system to break ties/determine home fields, even if it's a coin flip. The alphabetic system is one that treats every team involved in these ties the same, and I think the introduction of changing which letter they start the order from makes it potentially even more semi-random, if that fits.

When they simply went A-Z and Z-A in alternate years, a team like Xavier, Cedar Rapids (which is the last team alphabetically in the entire state, regardless of class) knew they would win every alphabetical tiebreaker some years and lose them in other years. Mixing up the starting letter at least brings a little uncertainty ... since it starts at 'J' this year, even with reverse order Xavier would lose potential tiebreakers with Clear Creek-Amana or Decorah or Davenport, Assumption.

(That's assuming the state is using that same system to determine playoff sites as they are to break ties between qualifiers. That's how I read the postseason manual, anyway. Also, I will mention this again - does anybody else find it odd the IHSAA said in their regular season manual last spring that they'd start at 'K,' but when the postseason manual came out it suddenly said they were starting at 'J'? Just me, then?)

 

[KidSilverhair]

Okay, now I've read the article. He's literally saying a potential Pella at Solon game "doesn't seem very fair" because, alphabet. What's your better, more fair, perfect system, Mr. Goodwin? If they used a coin flip and that also went Solon's way, would that also not "seem very fair"?

 

[KidSilverhair]

Still doesnt make sense that they don't do some time of seeding.

I don't understand why Solon or Pella woudn't get to play WSR first since thy have the better district records over WD? Xavier would be excluded b/c they are same district. Sending Benton to Pella, Osky to WD and WSR to Solon would have removed the Osky-Pella rematch and made more sense.

These are some interesting points. Let me say, I have no inside information on how they think at the IHSAA, but from how they have built brackets over the past decade, it appears they hold district finish in the highest esteem. An at-large at any district champion is all the same, whether that district champion finished 7-0 or 5-2 in the district (they only go to number of district losses and/or points differential to break ties in district order of finish or playoff sites, not as a form of seeding). That's why WSR plays at West Delaware rather than being sent to Pella or Solon; district champions are all the same, in the IHSAA's view.

Going with some form of seeding would answer a lot of questions being raised currently; however, it would also start generating more questions. Whether you seeded 1-8 on each side of the state or 1-16 for the entire state, you'd have your lowest seeded team matched against the highest, and you'd be able to figure out who hosts at every stage. The problem is, how do you seed? There are issues involved with using non-district games (which the IHSAA has been adamant about not using), or the 17-point differential. Anything else starts bringing the human element in, with one group or another judging whether Carroll should be seeded higher than Storm Lake, or trying to seed Xavier and Solon and Pella by ... what? Polls? Feelings? A vote?

Anyway, no answers on making this any better from me. Just speculation about why it is the way it is.

 

[El_Doce]

These are some interesting points. Let me say, I have no inside information on how they think at the IHSAA, but from how they have built brackets over the past decade, it appears they hold district finish in the highest esteem. An at-large at any district champion is all the same, whether that district champion finished 7-0 or 5-2 in the district (they only go to number of district losses and/or points differential to break ties in district order of finish or playoff sites, not as a form of seeding). That's why WSR plays at West Delaware rather than being sent to Pella or Solon; district champions are all the same, in the IHSAA's view.

Going with some form of seeding would answer a lot of questions being raised currently; however, it would also start generating more questions. Whether you seeded 1-8 on each side of the state or 1-16 for the entire state, you'd have your lowest seeded team matched against the highest, and you'd be able to figure out who hosts at every stage. The problem is, how do you seed? There are issues involved with using non-district games (which the IHSAA has been adamant about not using), or the 17-point differential. Anything else starts bringing the human element in, with one group or another judging whether Carroll should be seeded higher than Storm Lake, or trying to seed Xavier and Solon and Pella by ... what? Polls? Feelings? A vote?

Anyway, no answers on making this any better from me. Just speculation about why it is the way it is.

Agreed, just hate the first round rematches, but at least its not NW Iowa, they probably get stuck with those the most.

 

[crus8rs]

Im sure the number of qualifiers can be debated for days. I think the big issue is making sure that if you have wildcards that the point system reflects the quality of those teams. The 17 point differential only within your district is worthless and the sample size is not large enough to compare teams. Also, districts that have better teams in them actually are at a disadvantage here despite having played higher quality opponents. Nebraska does have a great power point system in place. Every team is classified as a level 1, level 2, level 3 or level 4 team depending on record (and it may change each week) You then get so many points for a win or a loss against each different level. They also score every game, not just district games. Examples of quality non-district games not counting for anything would be Heelan losing to Carroll by 3 and defeating a 4A East team.

http://nsaahome.org/textfile/fbl/fbman.pdf


WILD CARD CRITERIA
1. The following point evaluation scales will determine a team’s total wild card points:

1st/2nd/3rd/4th division teams
Victory Over 50 /47 /44 /41
Loss To 36/ 33/ 30/ 27
 A first division team is a team which has won more the 77% of its games played.
o 9-0, 8-1, 7-2
 A second division team is a team which has won at least 55% but not more than 77%
of its games played.
o 6-3, 5-4
 A third division team is a team which has won at least 33% but not more than 55% of
its games played.
o 4-5, 3-6
 A fourth division team is a team which has won less than 33% of its games played.
o 2-7, 1-8, 0-9

 

[RoundMound1]

I would strongly disagree that a team that is 5-4 should get in. Was this an issue before the change to 32 teams? I can't remember.

If there used to be 8 districts then why don't they just change back to that, and get rid of the 2 at large teams like it used to be? I don't recall any issues back then. That also leads me to my next question - are we going to constantly fight this issue until the class structure makes more sense? Seems to me we can't have a solid post-season structure without first having a solid regular season structure (8 Districts instead of 7) and we can't g have a solid regular season structure without a solid class structure.

I don't think that the small 3A schools can compete in the playoffs with these big 3A schools that have enough kids to play the one way.

Why? Because record is the only thing that determines how good a team is? Sorry, but I strongly disagree with your opinion. Guess you're the guy saying Boise St. should've been in the National Championship every year.

Fact: Every other sport in the state of Iowa allows all teams to make the playoffs (yes even 0-22 basketball teams or wrestlers who are 2-38 on the season)

Fact: Some teams play tougher non-district games than others

Fact: Districts are nowhere near the same from a competitiveness perspective

Fact: Plenty of 5-4 teams have beaten teams with better records the past 8 years since the playoffs were expanded

So go ahead and beat your chest with the other tough guys and talk about how you have to get it done in the regular season when the fact is teams don't play the same schedules during the regular season so using regular season records to determine who deserves a chance to continue their season isn't really a good way to go about it. I'd err on the side of allowing a couple bad teams in rather than having a couple good teams left out.

 

[FLBP]

No matter what, we are stuck with this system for next season as well.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

I missed this 8 man scenario. Could you please provide the details? Thanks.

http://qctimes.com/sports/high-scho...cle_7f72684d-e366-5536-9a45-b325b95cc3b0.html

Right in this Article.

Midland and Lone Tree were playing and Midland Lost the game. Well by some point differential the losing team got into the playoffs and the winning got left out. Makes zero sense to me.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

Why? Because record is the only thing that determines how good a team is? Sorry, but I strongly disagree with your opinion. Guess you're the guy saying Boise St. should've been in the National Championship every year.

Fact: Every other sport in the state of Iowa allows all teams to make the playoffs (yes even 0-22 basketball teams or wrestlers who are 2-38 on the season)

Fact: Some teams play tougher non-district games than others

Fact: Districts are nowhere near the same from a competitiveness perspective

Fact: Plenty of 5-4 teams have beaten teams with better records the past 8 years since the playoffs were expanded

So go ahead and beat your chest with the other tough guys and talk about how you have to get it done in the regular season when the fact is teams don't play the same schedules during the regular season so using regular season records to determine who deserves a chance to continue their season isn't really a good way to go about it. I'd err on the side of allowing a couple bad teams in rather than having a couple good teams left out.

Im with you on this one. Every other sport gets a chance at post season play. Why not do it with football. Cut back the non-district games and just play district games. Non district games are worthless. A lot of teams have their "suspended" players sit during those and then they are back for district action. Then at the end of the season you match up the teams for playoffs. You can still have enough games for student athletes to play in.

 

[StatewidePundit]

Think you are right here DavenportHawk8. Play all district games and get on with it.

 

[adambadger]

Another great article written by Des Moines Register beat writer Cody Goodwin on the multiple use of teams sharing the same home field during the playoffs and where they have to go and play there games. http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...playoffs-open-postseason-road-games/92779106/

The major highlights:
The Carroll Kuemper football team ran through its district competition this fall, compiling a spotless 7-0 record with an average margin of victory of 23.4 points. The reward for its stellar season, of course, would have to be a first-round home playoff game.

Well, not exactly.

The Knights’ “home” game this Friday — they’ll open the Class 2A playoffs against Central Lyon/George-Little Rock (7-2) — will take place in Denison, roughly 40 minutes west of their actual home site.

“That’s just the luck of the draw when two schools share facilities,” Carroll Kuemper coach Chad Klein said. “It’s always a little disappointing, because you’re not at home.”

Carroll Kuemper is one of three Iowa teams — Western Christian of Hull and Dowling Catholic are the others — that won their respective districts but will have to play away from their usual home fields Friday as they open the postseason. All three situations are a product of the shared-field dilemma.

Dowling Catholic, which is 8-1 overall and ranked second in Class 4A, drew Johnston (5-4) for its first-round matchup after winning District 2. But rather than playing at Valley Stadium, which Dowling rents from its crosstown rival, the Maroons will instead play at Williams Stadium in Des Moines.

“We’ve done this in the past,” Dowling coach Tom Wilson said. “People just kind of expect it now. Once we get into the postseason, we use Williams Stadium, which has been great for us.”

Western Christian, winner of Class 1A’s District 1, is the newbie to this particular fiasco. The fifth-ranked Wolves share Hesla Field in Hull with Boyden Hull/Rock Valley, the Class 2A, District 1 champ and the second-ranked team in the Register’s rankings.

As such, Western Christian (8-1) will hop on U.S. 75 and drive the 9 miles south to Sioux Center, where it’ll host West Lyon of Inwood (7-2) at Dordt College on Friday.

I’m glad the state made the right call and let us practice on the field this week,” Kooima said. “They weren’t going to let us at first, but since it’s where that game is and it’s our home game, we’ll get a few practices in over there and get used to the turf and stuff. We don’t play a lot of games on turf.”

Still, should Western Christian and Boyden Hull/Rock Valley both win and host quarterfinal games, the Nighthawks would then play in Rock Valley, allowing the Wolves to play at Hesla Field once more. But Kooima said getting to play at a college field is kind of neat, and his players will embrace it on Friday.