Any of the older track fans on the board watch this 30for30? Just wondering what you thought of Carl Lewis back in the 80s early 90s. He comes off like a very sore/jealous person, and just an outright jerk. Obviously, Johnson was doping. But, it's not like Carl didn't have his failed tested and suspicions too. Never been a huge fan of him in a historical context, but just wondering what people that actually saw him compete or followed him during his prime thought.
9.79---for you old men
- Thread starter bdrube
- Start date
I missed it but hope to catch it next time around. I did watch this story as it happened. I followed Carl from his days at Houston to his retirement. I was naive to steroid use in America in the early 80's and didn't want to believe my heros were a part of it. I thought only the Eastern Block women were the only outright cheats that were getting by with it. After years of reading books, interviews etc... it makes it hard to believe anyone was/is innocent. I personally think FloJo was protected while Ben Johnson was made the sacrificial goat in 88. If you look at her in 87 at the World Championships in Rome, she was smooth and beautiful like today's Allison Felix. Very talented and a medal threat but in no way dominating. One year later, scary!!! She couldn't beat the Russians or the Germans without cheating like they did. Evelyn Ashford was clean. I can't imagine her regret after looking back and knowing full well her teammates were getting by with cheating.
If you haven't seen it, Bud Greenspans' 16 Days of Glory documentary of the Ben Johnson affair was pretty interesting from Calvin Smith's point of view. I do believe he was clean and naturally fast without cheating. Very sad story to see a guy who was clean have to toe the line knowing full well most of the guys in that final were on drugs. He finished 4th and later recieved his bronze medal under the stadium out of view of the rest of the world after the Johnson DQ. I imagine he could tell us who else was on drugs but he just isn't going to rat anyone out without proof and to what gain. That's not the kind of person he was. He just did his best and hoped the system would find the truth.
Today, there are so many ways people are finding to take advantage of science and medicine it's hard for the system to keep up. The athlete bio-passport is the best thing I've heard of lately. A few track athletes were nailed in London but again, after the competition was over. A lifetime ban and draining of personal accounts from money gained after the DQ might help but regulating it would be difficult.
All of this makes me laugh (sarcasm) when other sports are just recently starting to do something about drug cheats but their penalties aren't even close to what track and field administers.
By the way, who are you calling old?
This post was edited on 10/10 9:18 PM by On Wings of Eagles
If you haven't seen it, Bud Greenspans' 16 Days of Glory documentary of the Ben Johnson affair was pretty interesting from Calvin Smith's point of view. I do believe he was clean and naturally fast without cheating. Very sad story to see a guy who was clean have to toe the line knowing full well most of the guys in that final were on drugs. He finished 4th and later recieved his bronze medal under the stadium out of view of the rest of the world after the Johnson DQ. I imagine he could tell us who else was on drugs but he just isn't going to rat anyone out without proof and to what gain. That's not the kind of person he was. He just did his best and hoped the system would find the truth.
Today, there are so many ways people are finding to take advantage of science and medicine it's hard for the system to keep up. The athlete bio-passport is the best thing I've heard of lately. A few track athletes were nailed in London but again, after the competition was over. A lifetime ban and draining of personal accounts from money gained after the DQ might help but regulating it would be difficult.
All of this makes me laugh (sarcasm) when other sports are just recently starting to do something about drug cheats but their penalties aren't even close to what track and field administers.
By the way, who are you calling old?
This post was edited on 10/10 9:18 PM by On Wings of Eagles
Yep - loved watching carl lewis. But, certainly an ass, probably moreso after he retired. I agree that 80's track was probably a lot like McGuire/Sosa baseball. Lots of denial at the time, but obviously something was up, and it wasn't a couple people. I agree with Eagles too - kind of unfortunate that track and cycling are made to look like "dirty sports" when, in reality the big sports (football especially) likely have 100% drug use if they were held to the same standards and testing. For christ's sake - you can get caught using steroids AND be an MVP in the same season in footbal (Merriman).
At any rate, drug culture and all - Carl Lewis was a stud. Most people remember him as a sprinter - but Long Jump was out of this world. I remember watching this competition on TV - to this day, maybe one of the coolest head to head battles I have ever seen in any sport. Unbelievably impressive to watch these two (mike powell and Carl).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybEs3j_MmrA
At any rate, drug culture and all - Carl Lewis was a stud. Most people remember him as a sprinter - but Long Jump was out of this world. I remember watching this competition on TV - to this day, maybe one of the coolest head to head battles I have ever seen in any sport. Unbelievably impressive to watch these two (mike powell and Carl).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybEs3j_MmrA
Regardless of suspected use/personality, Carl Lewis is easily the best long jumper ever. And it's not even close. It is sad that so many great performances and/or races are tainted by drug use. The women's T&F world records are absolutely ridiculous, and just looking at pictures of the majority of the record holders is a pretty clear indicator of use. Between the Eastern Bloc sprinters/throwers of the 80s and the Chinese of the middle 90s it is an absolute disgrace. And yes, Flo-Jo was most likely doped to the gills. Considering the multiple convicted cheats that have only come within .3 and .5 of her 100/200 records, it is ridiculous to think she was clean.
I agree that there needs to be more of a ban than 2 years. And there needs to be a more stringent drug testing protocol throughout the world, and not just let national federations conduct this. Because there are plenty of countries out there that will cheat to get that medal etc...
Overall though, I thought it was a darn good documentary. As are most of the 30for30 documentaries.
I agree that there needs to be more of a ban than 2 years. And there needs to be a more stringent drug testing protocol throughout the world, and not just let national federations conduct this. Because there are plenty of countries out there that will cheat to get that medal etc...
Overall though, I thought it was a darn good documentary. As are most of the 30for30 documentaries.
I've been a huge Carl Lewis fan my entire life, and will continue to be.
Although there is mounting evidence that he wasn't clean himself, I sure did enjoy watching him from the early 80's through the mid 90's.
Lewis winning his 4th consecutive Olympic Long Jump competition in '96, when he was way past his prime, was one of the greatest sporting events I've ever watched happen live (over the TV, I wasn't there). Bdrube is correct, greatest jumper ever.
Although there is mounting evidence that he wasn't clean himself, I sure did enjoy watching him from the early 80's through the mid 90's.
Lewis winning his 4th consecutive Olympic Long Jump competition in '96, when he was way past his prime, was one of the greatest sporting events I've ever watched happen live (over the TV, I wasn't there). Bdrube is correct, greatest jumper ever.
I have to admit that I have become somewhat desensitzed to the steroids issue since it seems so common that impossible performances continue to occur and more atheltes are getting nailed with failed tests. I want to still be excited about great performances and head to head competition and focus on that yet the thought of steroid use is always in the back of my mind. Then it becomes a waiting game as to who is going to show up in the news with a big DQ and medal reclamation and re-awarding process along with penalties. Relays with a proven guilty athlete and a denial of their world record is absurd. The athletes have already earned a lot of money by the time they get caught and the non-cheats have already lost out on a lot of opportunities because of it.
When a guy like Justin Gatlin is reinstated and has the success he did this year, I do get really tired of the announcers making sure everyone knows every time he's running that he is coming off of a 2 year suspension for cheating. That's always good for the sport especially for young people identifying their role models. Maybe in that regard, it's better for the sport than saying nothing. It just makes it hard to be interested in cheering for the home team. I'm curious to know what young people think about issues like this or if they even have an opinion similar to mine at their age.
What an awesome race the London men's 800 final turned out to be including 3 teenagers. Yet that just boggles the mind and makes it pretty unbelievable to think everyone is that good due to only hard training without assistance. A 19 year old 2nd place finisher ran as fast as Seb Coe's world record!!!! Two Americans ran sub 1:43 and earned NADA!!!! How much was taken off of the WR in the men's HH? Where was he 3 years ago that would lend us to believe he was an up and comer that we should look for in the future. At least Bolt was cranking out sub 20 200's as a 16? year old. Not so hard to believe what he's doing now. Can't say the same for his teammates. It's all about cycles, timing, knowing how early to get off the juice, dumb regulation procedures that let the athletes know what to avoid etc... that has led to athletes taking chances to get a crack at some income, travel, fame etc...
There has been and always will be cheaters. From getting rides and drinking strictnine in the early Olympic Marathons to males competing in women's races to steroids and hormone injections (sometimes claimed to be ancient turtles blood and caterpillar concoctions) to masking agents to genetic engineering. It will never end. There's always too much fame and money to be had by those that can get it however they can.
The ancient Greeks would carve the cheaters name in stone at the games for all athletes who enter the arena to see. They would be banished from their homelands including all of their family members to be disgraced forever if they weren't killed first.
Great performances aside, look how far we haven't come in 2000 years.
When a guy like Justin Gatlin is reinstated and has the success he did this year, I do get really tired of the announcers making sure everyone knows every time he's running that he is coming off of a 2 year suspension for cheating. That's always good for the sport especially for young people identifying their role models. Maybe in that regard, it's better for the sport than saying nothing. It just makes it hard to be interested in cheering for the home team. I'm curious to know what young people think about issues like this or if they even have an opinion similar to mine at their age.
What an awesome race the London men's 800 final turned out to be including 3 teenagers. Yet that just boggles the mind and makes it pretty unbelievable to think everyone is that good due to only hard training without assistance. A 19 year old 2nd place finisher ran as fast as Seb Coe's world record!!!! Two Americans ran sub 1:43 and earned NADA!!!! How much was taken off of the WR in the men's HH? Where was he 3 years ago that would lend us to believe he was an up and comer that we should look for in the future. At least Bolt was cranking out sub 20 200's as a 16? year old. Not so hard to believe what he's doing now. Can't say the same for his teammates. It's all about cycles, timing, knowing how early to get off the juice, dumb regulation procedures that let the athletes know what to avoid etc... that has led to athletes taking chances to get a crack at some income, travel, fame etc...
There has been and always will be cheaters. From getting rides and drinking strictnine in the early Olympic Marathons to males competing in women's races to steroids and hormone injections (sometimes claimed to be ancient turtles blood and caterpillar concoctions) to masking agents to genetic engineering. It will never end. There's always too much fame and money to be had by those that can get it however they can.
The ancient Greeks would carve the cheaters name in stone at the games for all athletes who enter the arena to see. They would be banished from their homelands including all of their family members to be disgraced forever if they weren't killed first.
Great performances aside, look how far we haven't come in 2000 years.
