4A Playoffs should be reduced to 8 teams

[franky1967]

Looking at the Standings first, 5-4 team gets in over one 7-2 team and several 6-3 teams. 4-5 Team listed as 2nd place in district not in the playoffs. Ankeny Cent and Dowling are in opposite brackets. Dont see Valley and Dowling on the same side either.

A few teams with worse overall record are District Champs. I think I have finally seen it all, so I am for District Champs only making the field. So with that being said here is what your playoff field could look like.

Johnston 8-1
Urbandale 6-3
Ankeny Cent. 7-2
WD Valley 8-1

Bettendorf 8-1
Iowa City West 9-0
Cedar Falls 8-1
North Scott 8-1

 

[KidSilverhair]

I see what you're saying, franky, but the way the state looks at it is non-district games don't exist. Those 9-game season records might as well not even be listed ... district play is all that matters for the playoffs. And with the 4A teams only having five district games, it gets kind of silly.

With each district sending two teams to the playoffs, no, it's not fair. A tough district can spread losses around, forcing a 3-2/7-2 team into third place, while a 3-2/5-4 team in a weaker district can get that second-place playoff berth. It's just the way it is at the moment - and yeah, it can be changed. You want to do district champions only and the rest of the field by points/wild cards? That could be done, if the IHSAA wanted to do it.

And to your point of the 4-5 CR Jefferson team listed above 5-4 CR Washington, that's no doubt a technology quirk. District records were both 3-2, CRJ had a slightly better point differential than CRW, the computer program that builds the standings is set up to only use those criteria. The fact that CRW beat CRJ head-to-head and therefore actually finishes second wasn't coded into that.

Robots are going to ruin everything, I swear.

 

[franky1967]

Amen!

 

[CF_93]

I'm sorry, but in a 16 team field, NO 5-4 team should ever make the playoffs, unless there aren't 16 6-3 teams or better, which VERY seldom ever happens. Again, this is the scenario that is crying out for the point system to be resurrected and modified to account for playing 3A (and lower) teams. There has to be a point to playing the four non-district games, otherwise, why send the players out there, only to risk injury for nothing?! There HAS to be a reward for the better overall achievement. And when there are 6-3, and sometimes even 7-2 teams sitting at home while a 5-4 waltzes into the playoffs, that's a disgrace! Makes about as much sense as just having the BOTTOM 24 teams in the playoffs and declaring the winner the state champion.

It's time to come up with a point system (similar to the old one, and I'm sorry if I forget the old point values now) where you get X number of points for a win over a 4A team with a 4-5 or worse record, 3A team with a record of 3-6 to 6-3, X + Y number of points for a win over a 4A team with a 5-4 or better record, or 3A with 7-2 or better, and X - Y for beating a 2-7 or worse 3A team.

Then, as long as you're only going to have a 16 team playoff field, playing exclusively on Friday nights, seed the field 1-16, high seed wins home field for the first two rounds, with the semi's and finals in the dome.

 

[ISUChip]

Applying the old points system, 14 of the 16 qualifiers are the same.

Newton (7-2, 380) would replace Urbandale (6-3, 365) in the West.
Dubuque Senior (6-3, 365) would replace CR Washington (5-4, 350) in the East.

 

[franky1967]

However the match ups would be different

 

[CF_93]

Applying the old points system, 14 of the 16 qualifiers are the same.

Newton (7-2, 380) would replace Urbandale (6-3, 365) in the West.
Dubuque Senior (6-3, 365) would replace CR Washington (5-4, 350) in the East.

Refresh my Swiss cheesed memory please. How many points was it for a win? Win over 5-4 or better? And for each loss? Thanks!

 

[ISUChip]

Refresh my Swiss cheesed memory please. How many points was it for a win? Win over 5-4 or better? And for each loss? Thanks!

Win vs >.500 = 50
Win vs .500 or lower = 45
Loss vs >.500 = 30
Loss vs .500 or lower = 25

Subtract 5 points for a game against 3A.
Subtract 10 points for a game against 2A.
Non-4A opponents records based on district results, not overall results (e.g., 4-3 district/4-5 overall is considered >.500 because of district record).

 

[EHS1505]

I think the district champ and points system for the other 8 spots is an interesting idea. Basically it's the same thing as conference football except the conferences aren't permanent. I think that is the current system in Nebraska if I'm not mistaken. They might consider adding in a few extra point tiers if they go back to it. Beating a 3A district champ/runner-up shouldn't result in the same amount of points as beating an 0-9 4A team. Same thing with losses.

 

[woodsiding]

Applying the old points system, 14 of the 16 qualifiers are the same.

Newton (7-2, 380) would replace Urbandale (6-3, 365) in the West.
Dubuque Senior (6-3, 365) would replace CR Washington (5-4, 350) in the East.

This is why the current set up is better. Senior beat no one. Wash scheduled and tough non-district and came out of it 2-2. Senior scheduled a terrible non-district and came out of it 3-1. Neither played a tough district, but kudos to Wash for not scheduling a padded meaningless non-district record.

 

[ronsss]

are u sure valley will beat lewis central....qb duggan causes everyone problems...he did not play in the urbandale game, otherwise lewis central win

 

[tnobd]

If the 4A districts were set up with 8 teams each, 2 automatic berths, and 4 at large teams based on a point system, the full regular season would have more interest imo. It would not create more non suburban team participants, but it would prevent teams from scheduling easy non district schedules. But yes the same repeat schools with high player participation and resources would be involved after the 20th of October. It amazes me that more then 2/3 of all teams and more then half of the other classes have their seasons end this many days before Nov 1st.

 

[screwloose]

Win vs >.500 = 50
Win vs .500 or lower = 45
Loss vs >.500 = 30
Loss vs .500 or lower = 25

Subtract 5 points for a game against 3A.
Subtract 10 points for a game against 2A.
Non-4A opponents records based on district results, not overall results (e.g., 4-3 district/4-5 overall is considered >.500 because of district record).

Correct me, if I'm wrong since I'm not as connected to high school football as I was a few years back, but I think Mason City is the only school who played an opponent below 3A(Clear Lake - 2A).
So you probably wouldn't have to worry about the 10 point penalties, which would be crippling. I think most like the idea of going back to a point system.

On a side note, if the state did, I would bring back the 4A Number Cruncher and force myself into finding the time to do it. As it stands, the 17-point tiebreaker doesn't do it for me. Not to mention the automatic two-spot qualifying from each district, which I think is lame and unfair to stronger districts.

I like the idea of six eight-team districts in 4A and counting the non-district games also. If you play the games, risking injury and consider those games for eliminating teams from tiebreakers and awarding home field advantage in the playoffs, why shouldn't they count totally? It makes no sense.

I've always been a proponent of allowing one sub-4A school on team's schedule with a "neighbor's exemption". If the 4A school is playing a legitimate neighboring school from a lower class, that game could be counted as a regular game in the point system. But teams would only get one. A second one would be penalized, if they wanted to have that game. That would help alleviate cherry-picking, not that anybody would be allowed to - the state controls all the scheduling now.

Another point that has been brought up in the past is a more weighted point system, where you get even more points for beating better teams and less for weaker teams. It would be a three-tiered system, as opposed to two.

Wins against teams
6-3, 7-2, 8-1.....50 pts*
3-6, 4-5, 5-4.....45 pts*
0-9, 1-8, 2-7.....40 pts*

Losses against teams
7-2, 8-1, 9-0.....30 pts*
4-5, 5-4, 6-3.....25 pts*
1-8, 2-7, 3-6.....20 pts*
* subject to 5 point per class penalty for non-exempt games

That's my soap box. Now I need to get back to crunching some FCS football, for the college football website, since I have the day off.

 

[ISUChip]

Correct me, if I'm wrong since I'm not as connected to high school football as I was a few years back, but I think Mason City is the only school who played an opponent below 3A(Clear Lake - 2A).

Western Dubuque played Beckman (2A-4).

 

[crus8rs]

The power points system in Nebraska works great and changes with each week depending on how a teams record changes.
WILD CARD CRITERIA
1. The following point evaluation scales will determine a team’s total wild card points:

1st Div. Team Win= 50/Loss= 36
2nd Div. Team Win=47/Loss =33
3rd Div. Team Win =44/Loss =30
4th Div. Team Win =41/Loss =27
 A first division team is a team which has won more the 77% of its games played. 9-0, 8-1, 7-2
 A second division team is a team which has won at least 55% but not more than 77% of its games played. 6-3, 5-4
 A third division team is a team which has won at least 33% but not more than 55% of its games played. 4-5, 3-6
 A fourth division team is a team which has won less than 33% of its games played. 2-7, 1-8, 0-9

 

[tnobd]

It doesn't matter what criteria is used for non-district schedules strength of schedule. Even when the CIML and MRAC were divided into quads on the West side of the state the stronger teams in the Central Conference were rewarded for their tougher schedules with post season berths with the old point system. I still think all the teams deserve to play into the last weekend of October...back in the day of plus 3 post season games were played until all the leaves fell off the trees. During 10 game schedules in other states ,there are open dates in the schedule and they still play until Nov. With so many field turf stadiums available the IHSAA needs to rethink their policy about the semifinal games in the UNI Dome.

 

[EHS1505]

The power points system in Nebraska works great and changes with each week depending on how a teams record changes.
WILD CARD CRITERIA
1. The following point evaluation scales will determine a team’s total wild card points:

1st Div. Team Win= 50/Loss= 36
2nd Div. Team Win=47/Loss =33
3rd Div. Team Win =44/Loss =30
4th Div. Team Win =41/Loss =27
 A first division team is a team which has won more the 77% of its games played. 9-0, 8-1, 7-2
 A second division team is a team which has won at least 55% but not more than 77% of its games played. 6-3, 5-4
 A third division team is a team which has won at least 33% but not more than 55% of its games played. 4-5, 3-6
 A fourth division team is a team which has won less than 33% of its games played. 2-7, 1-8, 0-9

Thanks, I knew it was something like that, I just didn't know the specifics. I'd love to see Screwloose's one "exemption" game to keep the Heelan/East rivalry going. Hasn't gone well for the East siders as of late, but it's still a great atmosphere and hopefully the pendulum will swing back the other way over the next few years.

In short, district champ + wild card using Nebraska's wildcard point system. One "exemption" game for class penalty, other lower class games take a 5 point penalty. That would be the most balanced system in my opinion. Forces (or at least rewards/encourages) a tough non-district schedule. Rewards the top team in each district, and keeps things interesting until Week 9 for the wildcard spots. I think it'd also keep Screwloose engaged as the number of possibilities, even into Week 9, would take a lot more number crunching than any previous system... and really isn't keeping Screwloose engaged the most important thing?

 

[hawkod]

Looking at the Standings first, 5-4 team gets in over one 7-2 team and several 6-3 teams. 4-5 Team listed as 2nd place in district not in the playoffs. Ankeny Cent and Dowling are in opposite brackets. Dont see Valley and Dowling on the same side either.

A few teams with worse overall record are District Champs. I think I have finally seen it all, so I am for District Champs only making the field. So with that being said here is what your playoff field could look like.

Johnston 8-1
Urbandale 6-3
Ankeny Cent. 7-2
WD Valley 8-1

Bettendorf 8-1
Iowa City West 9-0
Cedar Falls 8-1
North Scott 8-1

Sorry Franky, I have to absolutely disagree. Take for example Southeast Polk: 6-3 record, but rated #6 by BCMoore.
Lost to both IC West and Johnston by 10 after leading in the 2nd half. Lost to Valley in 2OT.
Beat Centennial 34-7. DM Register writers raving about Newton's 6-0 team and their offensive prowess: SEP 49-14.
Writers again highlighting Ft. Dodge offensive machine: SEP 52-7.
Not saying they're an elite team or will advance in the playoffs, but their resume looks pretty good to me.

Looking at the Standings first, 5-4 team gets in over one 7-2 team and several 6-3 teams. 4-5 Team listed as 2nd place in district not in the playoffs. Ankeny Cent and Dowling are in opposite brackets. Dont see Valley and Dowling on the same side either.

A few teams with worse overall record are District Champs. I think I have finally seen it all, so I am for District Champs only making the field. So with that being said here is what your playoff field could look like.

Johnston 8-1
Urbandale 6-3
Ankeny Cent. 7-2
WD Valley 8-1

Bettendorf 8-1
Iowa City West 9-0
Cedar Falls 8-1
North Scott 8-1

 

[Reasoned]

With the current district format, even taking into consideration the comparative variability of strengths in each district over a two year period (and it can vary greatly e.g., D7), chances are the "best" team in the state would probably find its way in the PO's in a D champ format but one look no further than this year with Dowling, not winning their district and they may very well 5-peat, so I would argue the 16 team format catches all the probable contenders.

 

[EHS1505]

Well... after looking at Nebraska's brackets, it kind of blew up (or supported maybe?) my post about travel stipulations when seeding 1-16. They seed 1-16. In Class C1, Wayne plays at Chadron. 5 hours and 47 minutes on the bus and it's even in a different time zone... can't say we have that obstacle in Iowa... Another oddity about that game, it starts at 2PM/3PM MST/CST. I assume so Wayne gets home before 3AM...

 

[ISUChip]

Well... after looking at Nebraska's brackets, it kind of blew up (or supported maybe?) my post about travel stipulations when seeding 1-16. They seed 1-16. In Class C1, Wayne plays at Chadron. 5 hours and 47 minutes on the bus

Blair is playing at Scottsbluff for the 2nd year in a row. 469 miles one way.

 

[EHS1505]

Blair is playing at Scottsbluff for the 2nd year in a row. 469 miles one way.

NHSAA must pay at least some part of lodging expenses to Blair. Realistically they'd almost have to stay on both ends of the trip. To allow for travel breaks they'd have to leave at 7-8 AM and they wouldn't get home until 6-7 AM the following day. Most coaches wouldn't want the 7 hour trip to the game the day of and most sane people wouldn't want a 7 hour trip home starting around 10PM at night...

Any idea on the criteria for start time? I see Blair/Scottsbluff is listed as 6PM MST/7PM CST still. The start times are all over the map, 7PM CST is the most common, but there are minor random adjustments all over the place and a few major ones (Wayne/Chadron at 3PM CST)

 

[franky1967]

I just looked at the Miss/Valley Website at looked at District 5 Standing. They have Washington listed ahead on points.

CR Washington 3.60
CR Jefferson 3.40

Goes to show you what extent people will go to to make things look correct and proper when it is just the opposite