Lots of talk in previous threads about all state being too heavily weighted towards kids that had good playoff performances. I don't agree. After all, big game players make big plays in big games. Regardless, after factoring in playoff games....who's on your all state team now DSM?
4A All State AFTER Playoffs
- Thread starter kennyarnold
- Start date
We can agree to disagree, i still like picking teams at the end of the regular season allowing pickers to compare apples to apples with stats. Once you add playoff games the stats become harder to use ( not sure how much the pickers actually used stats but I certainly did on my picks along with hudl).
I also think there are a lot of very good players on average teams as our friends from eastern Iowa point out ( Combs I believe is an example). It's my opinion that sometimes players look better than they actually are when playing on a power team. Likewise, a player that looks great on a poor team is without question very talented and would most likely be a star on a power team. I think one really needs to take into account the overall team make-up when evaluating individual players. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth
I also think there are a lot of very good players on average teams as our friends from eastern Iowa point out ( Combs I believe is an example). It's my opinion that sometimes players look better than they actually are when playing on a power team. Likewise, a player that looks great on a poor team is without question very talented and would most likely be a star on a power team. I think one really needs to take into account the overall team make-up when evaluating individual players. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth
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We very much have to disagree here. While I won't argue that there are very talented kids on poor teams, the teams that had the poorest records also played the poorest schedules. I think you are forgetting that kids on the power schools play VERY little in blow outs. I want to know who steps up when the competition is good. Dot Combs is a big strong kid. His film proves he's not elite. Even against the Sioux City Wests and Council Bluffs ALs. Sorry, but compare his film with Zachary, Gates or Soko and it isn't even close. Watch the films. They're all on HUDL. For me those 3 are your first teamers.
I'm going to keep in mind though that Combs is only a sophomore and has a chance to get a lot better and I look forward to keeping an eye on him. My vote isn't based on potential. It's based on performance when the game is on the line and what players opposing coaches absolutely have to prepare for.
I'm going to keep in mind though that Combs is only a sophomore and has a chance to get a lot better and I look forward to keeping an eye on him. My vote isn't based on potential. It's based on performance when the game is on the line and what players opposing coaches absolutely have to prepare for.
Not sure the argument was more about selection based on playoff performance, but on over all performance and impact on their team. I agree kenneyarnold that voting and selection should not be based on potential, or a "name". But DSM Sports Fan sums it up very well with his observation that a player that looks great on a lesser quality team is talented and might even perform and look better on a power team, especially on offense where blocking is huge. And players may look better than what they are on a power team, how would a talent on a power team perform when he doesn't have the supporting cast and has to rely more on individual skills. I totally disagree with your observation that the poorest teams played the poorest schedules. There are some Districts that are very competitive and some decent teams got left out of the playoffs that beat teams from other Districts who got to play the extra games in the playoffs and with a worse record. Combs is a senior and the argument there was just that, what could this kid have done on a much better team that actually created holes for him? We don't know.
This site itself seems to get it right. For example, Iowa Preps QB Player of the year based on 2016 PERFORMANCE, was a 3a QB, Nick Finley. Of the Other Candidates that were considered on the list from Iowa Preps, that came from 4A were Moore, Sullivan, Duggan, Weiland and Hawkins, no where on the consideration for QB performance in 2016 was the Valley kid who was tagged First team Allstate QB. Could any of these kids had an even better year on the Power Team? And I know several of them did not play entire games either because of the score. I have seen Lombardi play twice, Moore play, and Sullivan who was in our teams District play several times..... I can only speak to this year, and the games I saw, and I have not seen any West teams play t, Although Lombardi has great potential at the next level and is a great kid, Sullivan as well as Moore were far better with accuracy and reads on the passing aspect of the game. So I think we go back to the same argument. Someone needs to see these top kids in the state actually in a game situation.
This site itself seems to get it right. For example, Iowa Preps QB Player of the year based on 2016 PERFORMANCE, was a 3a QB, Nick Finley. Of the Other Candidates that were considered on the list from Iowa Preps, that came from 4A were Moore, Sullivan, Duggan, Weiland and Hawkins, no where on the consideration for QB performance in 2016 was the Valley kid who was tagged First team Allstate QB. Could any of these kids had an even better year on the Power Team? And I know several of them did not play entire games either because of the score. I have seen Lombardi play twice, Moore play, and Sullivan who was in our teams District play several times..... I can only speak to this year, and the games I saw, and I have not seen any West teams play t, Although Lombardi has great potential at the next level and is a great kid, Sullivan as well as Moore were far better with accuracy and reads on the passing aspect of the game. So I think we go back to the same argument. Someone needs to see these top kids in the state actually in a game situation.
I referenced Combs but meant Baker. Sorry got my backs mixed up. As for Combs, he is shifty but his team went ofer. Sorry, I saw some god awful teams this year. If you are an all state performer you can eek out 1 win. Combs is talented, is probably a really nice kid and I hope he tears it up in college. But he doesn't deserve all state. I'm guessing Lombardi being on an undefeated team until Centennial has everything to do with his selection. Way more to playing QB than throwing. Now don't get confused, I'm not a fan of Valley. Just offering a reason for his selection.
I think we can all agree that the coaches in the room have a major influence on the selection. And shame on those that don't participate. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to set up a conference call for everyone around the state to participate. I hear email is quite the advancement also?!?
As far as schedules go... you won't convince me that poor teams play good schedules. Now, some may play a better schedule than other poor teams but they don't compare to those power teams. And this is most evident when looking at the out of district games. Good teams are good because of good players. It's that simple. How Cedar Rapids Prairie, Iowa City West, and Centennial only had 7 total selections......boggles my mind. Ankeny, Urbandale and CRJefferson.....12. Good Lord that's stupid!
I think we can all agree that the coaches in the room have a major influence on the selection. And shame on those that don't participate. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to set up a conference call for everyone around the state to participate. I hear email is quite the advancement also?!?
As far as schedules go... you won't convince me that poor teams play good schedules. Now, some may play a better schedule than other poor teams but they don't compare to those power teams. And this is most evident when looking at the out of district games. Good teams are good because of good players. It's that simple. How Cedar Rapids Prairie, Iowa City West, and Centennial only had 7 total selections......boggles my mind. Ankeny, Urbandale and CRJefferson.....12. Good Lord that's stupid!
i like the teams picked before the playoffs start. Great players are going to continue to play good through the playoffs, it should not take the playoffs to get those guys noticed. Like others have said, this allows the selection team to compare like for like with stats (9 games).
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