*** 3A State Talk - Pella (21-2) Vs. Cedar Rapids Xavier (16-8) ****

[Red87]

To begin, how long the kids have attended the school is irrelevant and not germane to the discussion at all.Second, are you really suggesting that a school in a large, urban metro area does not have built in, inherent advantages over a school in a rural town? And for the record, CR Metro area has over 50,000 Catholics (if that were relevant).

 

[WhiteShadowHoops]

I don't get all the whining period. In a lot of other states, some of the best teams in the state can be as small as 2A schools. There is so much of an overemphasis on this schools bigger or that schools smaller. I get when you argue some tiny 1a school vs. large 4a school. If your team is that good GREAT! They will win. IF not, get over it. So sick of hearing the ITS NOT FAIR complaints.

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

Originally posted by WhiteShadowHoops:
I don't get all the whining period. In a lot of other states, some of the best teams in the state can be as small as 2A schools. There is so much of an overemphasis on this schools bigger or that schools smaller. I get when you argue some tiny 1a school vs. large 4a school. If your team is that good GREAT! They will win. IF not, get over it. So sick of hearing the ITS NOT FAIR complaints.

The it's not fair complaints aren't just because there are bigger schools playing small schools. The complaints are that public schools, who do not get to hand pick which students get in, are never matched up with bigger private schools in postseason play. It's kind of like the situation with the all boys Woodward Academy. The IHSAA classifies you by your number of total students instead of your number of athletically able students, and instead of putting in a 1.5 multiplier or bumping all private schools up one class (like the other states do), they just kind of ignore it completely.

 

[EagleHawk]

Originally posted by NeverReadTheTermsOfService:

Originally posted by WhiteShadowHoops:
I don't get all the whining period. In a lot of other states, some of the best teams in the state can be as small as 2A schools. There is so much of an overemphasis on this schools bigger or that schools smaller. I get when you argue some tiny 1a school vs. large 4a school. If your team is that good GREAT! They will win. IF not, get over it. So sick of hearing the ITS NOT FAIR complaints.

The it's not fair complaints aren't just because there are bigger schools playing small schools. The complaints are that public schools, who do not get to hand pick which students get in, are never matched up with bigger private schools in postseason play. It's kind of like the situation with the all boys Woodward Academy. The IHSAA classifies you by your number of total students instead of your number of athletically able students, and instead of putting in a 1.5 multiplier or bumping all private schools up one class (like the other states do), they just kind of ignore it completely.

It didn't matter in football, when Pella beat Xavier, why is it an issue now because Xavier won?

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

Originally posted by EagleHawk:

Originally posted by NeverReadTheTermsOfService:

Originally posted by WhiteShadowHoops:
I don't get all the whining period. In a lot of other states, some of the best teams in the state can be as small as 2A schools. There is so much of an overemphasis on this schools bigger or that schools smaller. I get when you argue some tiny 1a school vs. large 4a school. If your team is that good GREAT! They will win. IF not, get over it. So sick of hearing the ITS NOT FAIR complaints.

The it's not fair complaints aren't just because there are bigger schools playing small schools. The complaints are that public schools, who do not get to hand pick which students get in, are never matched up with bigger private schools in postseason play. It's kind of like the situation with the all boys Woodward Academy. The IHSAA classifies you by your number of total students instead of your number of athletically able students, and instead of putting in a 1.5 multiplier or bumping all private schools up one class (like the other states do), they just kind of ignore it completely.

It didn't matter in football, when Pella beat Xavier, why is it an issue now because Xavier won?

It matters no matter who wins. It's not like we are breaking new ground here, it is a legitimate gripe. I could care less that Pella and Waverly lost, but I'm just saying let's not make it seem like "the better teams won" and that's all there is to it. Let's not rip on Pella (like thinkpad1 was doing) and call them overrated just because they didn't beat a school that should be 1 or 2 classes above them.

 

[thinkpad1]

EagleHawk could not have put it any better!!!

 

[Hawkfreak2k15]

Solid points by Never

 

[Saywhat2]

Originally posted by Red87:
The population of Cedar Rapids Metro area is almost 260,000 people. That is Xavier's population base from which it draws its raw 3A school enrollment (Williamsburg is about 3,000, LeMars about 10,000, and Dubuque area about 100,000 counting the tri-state area; or Iowa City with a metro population of about 160,000 vs. Cascade with a "metro" population of about 2200). Pella's population base is not quite 11,000 from which it draws its 3A enrollment. When having to select 5-7 quality "items" (in this case basketball players), selecting from 260,000 vs. 11,000 or 3,000 will more often than not yield better results. The group selecting from 260,000 will always have a natural, INHERENT, advantage to start from through no control or influence of their own; they aren't better selectors. This isn't difficult to understand, and really isn't a debatable issue. A school from Cedar Rapids should almost always perform a school from a town 1/24th its size.

Why are you not counting Iowa City and Solon as part of Williamsburg population base from which they draw athletes? Or does transferring from a school,ICW, just down the interstate from Williamsburg, where you did not get the playing time you wanted or thought you deserved not count? You can also throw in the world population as well. Sigourney high school has gone the foreign exchange route to bring in talented basketball players from the Czech Republic. Two in four years that helped them win two district titles. One now playing professionally in Europe two years out of high school.You public school purists are a hoot, you would think the 1a field should be loaded with private schools. Where are they? Every year this issue comes up....Well except last year when I believe there was only one or two private schools in the 32 team field . But hey, it's great for a few chuckles every year. And yes..it is debatable....it's not " settled science". Hahaha

 

[Saywhat2]

Originally posted by Vroom_C14:

Originally posted by NeverReadTheTermsOfService:

Originally posted by thinkpad1:
Hey hey hey....... Goodbye Pella.

Not quite the 20 point beat down you predicted though, right thinkpad? Not too bad of a performance by a team that would be 1 or 2 classes lower than Xavier if the teams played in a different state. If there were a tournament of "True 3A teams" I think Pella vs. Waverly would have been an excellent game.


Sets up for a conference rivalry with Wahlert and Xavier in the semifinals (which most would consider the finals) and a star showdown between two of the best players in Iowa (maybe two of the top ten?) in McDermott and Pemsl.

So the two private schools that play 4A for regular season are beating 3A conference teams, amazing!

State needs to make a rule that if 50%+ of your games are against a higher class, then that is the class you play in for the State run (regardless if private or public).

Originally posted by Vroom_C14:

Originally posted by NeverReadTheTermsOfService:

Originally posted by thinkpad1:
Hey hey hey....... Goodbye Pella.

Not quite the 20 point beat down you predicted though, right thinkpad? Not too bad of a performance by a team that would be 1 or 2 classes lower than Xavier if the teams played in a different state. If there were a tournament of "True 3A teams" I think Pella vs. Waverly would have been an excellent game.


Sets up for a conference rivalry with Wahlert and Xavier in the semifinals (which most would consider the finals) and a star showdown between two of the best players in Iowa (maybe two of the top ten?) in McDermott and Pemsl.

So the two private schools that play 4A for regular season are beating 3A conference teams, amazing!

State needs to make a rule that if 50%+ of your games are against a higher class, then that is the class you play in for the State run (regardless if private or public).

Haha. Ok you just eliminated about half the 1a field. I guess you would have to say BP is the only true 1a team as I see they played 100% 1a competition ..

 

[Vroom_C14]

Originally posted by Saywhat2:

Originally posted by Vroom_C14:

Originally posted by NeverReadTheTermsOfService:

Originally posted by thinkpad1:
Hey hey hey....... Goodbye Pella.

Not quite the 20 point beat down you predicted though, right thinkpad? Not too bad of a performance by a team that would be 1 or 2 classes lower than Xavier if the teams played in a different state. If there were a tournament of "True 3A teams" I think Pella vs. Waverly would have been an excellent game.


Sets up for a conference rivalry with Wahlert and Xavier in the semifinals (which most would consider the finals) and a star showdown between two of the best players in Iowa (maybe two of the top ten?) in McDermott and Pemsl.

So the two private schools that play 4A for regular season are beating 3A conference teams, amazing!

State needs to make a rule that if 50%+ of your games are against a higher class, then that is the class you play in for the State run (regardless if private or public).

Originally posted by Vroom_C14:

Originally posted by NeverReadTheTermsOfService:

Originally posted by thinkpad1:
Hey hey hey....... Goodbye Pella.

Not quite the 20 point beat down you predicted though, right thinkpad? Not too bad of a performance by a team that would be 1 or 2 classes lower than Xavier if the teams played in a different state. If there were a tournament of "True 3A teams" I think Pella vs. Waverly would have been an excellent game.


Sets up for a conference rivalry with Wahlert and Xavier in the semifinals (which most would consider the finals) and a star showdown between two of the best players in Iowa (maybe two of the top ten?) in McDermott and Pemsl.

So the two private schools that play 4A for regular season are beating 3A conference teams, amazing!

State needs to make a rule that if 50%+ of your games are against a higher class, then that is the class you play in for the State run (regardless if private or public).

Haha. Ok you just eliminated about half the 1a field. I guess you would have to say BP is the only true 1a team as I see they played 100% 1a competition ..

If your location depicts the competition that is one thing, when you choose to play up why would you want to drop for state run? Especially when you competed very well at the upper level? This woudl be like Iowa playing in the BIG for regular season and when it's bowl season, drop and play DIAA for the championship run...

As I said - REGARDLESS if private or public. If you play up, stay up.

 

[Saywhat2]

Who is "choosing" to play up during the regular season? Xavier plays in a conference. That is their schedule. Just as a lot of 1 a schools play in a primarily 2a conference. And then play in a lower class as you say for the postseason. So I guess what you are saying is teams like Boyden Hull , Earlham, etc should have to play in 2a postseason. Silliness

 

[NeverReadTheTermsOfService]

I don't think you should have to play up just because you play up during conference season. A simple multiplier or automatic one class pop up for the private schools would solve basically everything. A class should be full of teams with about the same number of athletically able athletes. Handpicking players and not having to worry about special education kids and high school drop out types that run up the BEDS number and then leave is not fair. Also not having to worry about foreign exchange kids. It just makes since to even out the playing field and do something to combat those advantages.