3A First Round State Talk: #4 MOC-Floyd Valley vs. #5 Dubuque Wahlert
- Thread starter LukeFeddersen
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Both excellent teams. Winner here will be in the finals. MOC has been very focused since their first round loss last year at the hands of Spirit Lake.
MOC is playing at a very high level. Very well coached and Levi Jansen is the best all around player in the state. Two best 3a teams ( Xavier and WV-SR too ) playing in the 1st round ... really.
MOC can win it but need non-Hawk fan refs and poor shooting day from Wahlert. Wahlert is going for 3 straight titles wow.
MOC can win it but need non-Hawk fan refs and poor shooting day from Wahlert. Wahlert is going for 3 straight titles wow.
Well let's pull back for a second on the "two best 3A teams" thing. Wahlert is definitely the top 3A team and although MOC is good, I definitely wouldn't say they are top 2. Mid-level team in this field, although they did rip apart Carroll after Carroll's upset to get to that game.
Jansen needs to have a big game for MOC for them to pull this off. Might be one of the closer games that Wahlert has played over this stretch but I'd say the bigger Wahlert team wins by 12.
Oh, and to answer the other question, Wahlert has about a 60% chance to win state in my mind. If MOC wins, they could definitely pull out two more wins but they'll have their hands full here.
Jansen needs to have a big game for MOC for them to pull this off. Might be one of the closer games that Wahlert has played over this stretch but I'd say the bigger Wahlert team wins by 12.
Oh, and to answer the other question, Wahlert has about a 60% chance to win state in my mind. If MOC wins, they could definitely pull out two more wins but they'll have their hands full here.
MOC is really good with stars Levi Jansen and Christian Korver, and Wahlert will have to play better than they did against Waverly. Golden Eagles had to go on an 11-1 run at the end to get past Waverly, after trailing by 5 in the closing minutes. Should be a great game next Wednesday. I actually think about six different teams could win the state title this year.
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Hooray! Now I can actually watch one of Jansen's games online. Is there anywhere I should look for that link, or do they typically get posted on this forum closer to game day? Thanks!
http://www.ihssn.com/
or
http://www.iahsaa.org/ and following the link.
Usually Live Video and Live Stats are available. Not archived though, so you can't watch it later
3A has a great line-up of games!
Jansen is tough to stop & he's seen every junk defense & handles them well, so Korver gets a lot of open looks.
MOC-FV will need the supporting cast to step up to get a W. They are great at disrupting set offenses.
Pemsl needs to stay out of trouble - Expect MOC-FV to take it at him.
May be decided at the FT line?
Jansen is tough to stop & he's seen every junk defense & handles them well, so Korver gets a lot of open looks.
MOC-FV will need the supporting cast to step up to get a W. They are great at disrupting set offenses.
Pemsl needs to stay out of trouble - Expect MOC-FV to take it at him.
May be decided at the FT line?
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This is a smaller than usually MOC team and I think they will really struggle with Wahlert's size. They just don't have anyone who can really match up with Pemsl. They will have to play tremendous team defense on him and really get hot from 3 to stand a chance. They definitely have the shooters to do so, but I still think it will be a tall task for them to pull off the win here.
Don't underestimate MOC's bigs. 6'6 Bryce Boomgars and 6'5 Karsten Marker have been playing lights out, plus Jansen plays 6'6 lol. His stat line is superb 17 pt pg 6 rbs 5 steal 6 assists and 60 plus blocks and is the best defender on the court. The Dutch and Xaiver have a shot at ending the Wahlert 3 peat. No one else does, not good enough.
Two best teams in Xavier and WV-SR (I think you mean Spirit Lake)? That's a little extreme. Many think that Pella should get past both of them.
The seeding isn't perfect, but I don't have a big problem with it.
The seeding isn't perfect, but I don't have a big problem with it.
No I didn't mean SL ,something about poorly coached 1 or 1.5 trick pony teams I don't like. Xavier ends Dr. Basketball's short coaching career shame he never came within 40 pts of beating Western Christian with such 'great' teams. Maybe he shouldn't 'retire' and try again next year LOL
I don't know where you are getting those heights from, both those kids are listed as 6'4" on quickstats. MOC is a good team, but I think you are giving them an awful lot of credit. I get it though, they beat Heelan so they must be the best team in the state. Classic CBCrusader, ridiculous as always.
credit for giving them a good team wow , how dare anyone SL has a Hawk recruit ! they are great !!!!! happy now
Spirit Lake is a good team though, I don't see how you can argue this. Yes they did have a relatively easy road to state and yes WC did blow them out twice. WC also beat MOC and Heelan, I think it says more about WC than it does about SL. I would be surprised if Spirit Lake won the whole thing, but its not like its a huge upset if they win their first round game. They have a lot of talent.
What does who WC has beaten have to do with a team with two nice players, a crappy coach, that have feasted off bad short teams ?
http://www.ihssn.com/
or
http://www.iahsaa.org/ and following the link.
Usually Live Video and Live Stats are available. Not archived though, so you can't watch it later
Booyah. Thanks boss.
P.S. - Thanks for the heads up about the games not being archived. I might've made that exact mistake without the warning.
Again, why is he a crappy coach? I am assuming because you say he recruits. Right? What about his X's and O's are crappy? I get so sick of hearing this from people who, most of the time, can't come up with a good reason why a coach is good or bad.
CB crusader likes to stretch the truth. Last year SL got blown out once, second meeting was very close, SL missed a layup with seconds remaining. Not a 40 point loss. This year, first game was a mismatch. Not a surprise as Spirit Lake had very little experience returning. Second matchup was close into forth quarter. Freethrows and a few timely 3's made the margin 19
Not 40 points as CBcrusader likes to mention. Coach Ekeoff is very effective at taking you out of what you want to do. You can continue to put Kriener down for his games against Western, but know one in is class has been recruited harder. After his summer AAU season he received numerous D1 offers and after his junior AAU season he received more then 25 D1 offers. And yes this was playing against kids as big or bigger then him. If you have an opinion share it. Just stat facts and leave the kids out of it.
Next year will tell you how good a coach Dr. Basketball is ... oh wait , he is quitting after this season. Wonder why lol. Joke.
WC has been running the same O and D for 35 years. No secrets , just good players but 40 pts better ??? All those offers and he goes to Iowa ? to what watch a bunch of skinny guys miss 3's. Why not Kansas or Okie or even Iowa St , they had to offer right ( or not ) at least those people win something. But glad you are impressed.
What I don't get is why he had to ruin this perfectly good thread. If you want to bash Spirit Lake you could at least have the decency to do it in the actual Spirit Lake thread.
Who ruined it ? so I don't think a team that got drilled by 40 twice by their only competition and have a short time carpet bagging coach is any good. Get over it.
Have not seen MOC, but if they have an athlete that can apply some pressure to Pemsl on both ends, than they might have a chance. I think you need to really try to limit his boards, force the others to win the game. Does not have to be a big, just a taller athlete, would be even better if they have someone off the bench that can rotate through and wear him down. Need to be physical.
Okay I have to stop you right here. You are saying ONLY IOWA like that isn't a big time offer. I am no Iowa basketball pundit, but to get recruited to Iowa is a big deal. Iowa isn't this budding state with a ton of D1 talent. Much of the D1 talent is low to mid-major. To say the kid isn't get because he is ONLY going to Iowa is just insane. Shows how little you know about the game. But hey, kudos for you for trashing a high school kid and also trashing a coach without giving ONE VALID REASON to trash him besides recruiting. I get that part. If you have an issue with Spirit Lake getting in the recruiting game then fine. You just haven't given one valid X and O point why their coach is a bad coach. Keep saying a whole bunch about nothing Trump.
I am skeptical of Spirit Lake's team as I don't really think they are a 3A contender, but why the hate?
As for Kriener, what's wrong with him going to Iowa? Let's be honest, he's not a 5 star recruit, but still a capable D-I player. Even at Iowa he's arguably only the 3rd best post player in their recruiting class.
As for Kriener, what's wrong with him going to Iowa? Let's be honest, he's not a 5 star recruit, but still a capable D-I player. Even at Iowa he's arguably only the 3rd best post player in their recruiting class.
So... as someone who isn't familiar with the area/teams/coaches/situations being discussed at this point in the thread, this is basically like reading a foreign language that vaguely resembles English but is just enough not English that I don't actually know what's happening.
As such, I'll ask a question that actually might get a normal response more clearly related to the thread topic. Possibly even in normal, plain English.
What will MOC-FV actually need to do to get a win over Wahlert here? From what I've read, they won't necessarily be able to stop Pemsl by any means (most likely), so if they at least slow down Pemsl, will they have a decent shot, or is the rest of Wahlert's squad solid enough that slowing down Pemsl still won't do much? Does Wahlert have the types of defenders that will be able to keep Jansen in check, or will it be Jansen and Korver trying to outscore/outshoot Pemsl and whatever his strengths happen to be (inside game? shooting?...I'm not sure what he does best), and it'll end up being a "may the best offensive team win" type of thing?
Just random questions I have not knowing a ton about either team.
As such, I'll ask a question that actually might get a normal response more clearly related to the thread topic. Possibly even in normal, plain English.
What will MOC-FV actually need to do to get a win over Wahlert here? From what I've read, they won't necessarily be able to stop Pemsl by any means (most likely), so if they at least slow down Pemsl, will they have a decent shot, or is the rest of Wahlert's squad solid enough that slowing down Pemsl still won't do much? Does Wahlert have the types of defenders that will be able to keep Jansen in check, or will it be Jansen and Korver trying to outscore/outshoot Pemsl and whatever his strengths happen to be (inside game? shooting?...I'm not sure what he does best), and it'll end up being a "may the best offensive team win" type of thing?
Just random questions I have not knowing a ton about either team.
Mr. Augustana: El_Doce above is basically correct. This Wahlert team is the weakest of the 3 teams they have assembled. Honestly, the team 2 years ago was the best; this one is the weakest.
To beat Wahlert you need 1 or more studs. Not necessarily D-1 players but legitimate scorers. You need bodies up front. Your big bodies up front do not need to be starters, but you need 15+ fouls and to limit Wahlert's huge front line. Most importantly, you need at least 2 serious, AGGRESSIVE athletes. You need at least 2 kids who played outside linebacker on the football team. That kid. Wahlert is a good/great team. Wahlert is a pretty arrogant group of kids (every year they are arrogant, but this year is particularly bad). Wahlert is not a mean group of kids and teams that rattle them are teams that make the game rough and street fight.
Let your aggressive kids press the whole game. Not to create turnovers but to set tempo.
Drive at Wahlert's big men. Especially everyone other the Pemsl who is a very smart high school level player. Pemsl doesn't foul himself out. That is not true for the rest of the front line and bench.
Make physical contact constantly. Touch, grab, hug, hold, pinch, poke and push every Wahlert player all game long.
To beat Wahlert you need 1 or more studs. Not necessarily D-1 players but legitimate scorers. You need bodies up front. Your big bodies up front do not need to be starters, but you need 15+ fouls and to limit Wahlert's huge front line. Most importantly, you need at least 2 serious, AGGRESSIVE athletes. You need at least 2 kids who played outside linebacker on the football team. That kid. Wahlert is a good/great team. Wahlert is a pretty arrogant group of kids (every year they are arrogant, but this year is particularly bad). Wahlert is not a mean group of kids and teams that rattle them are teams that make the game rough and street fight.
Let your aggressive kids press the whole game. Not to create turnovers but to set tempo.
Drive at Wahlert's big men. Especially everyone other the Pemsl who is a very smart high school level player. Pemsl doesn't foul himself out. That is not true for the rest of the front line and bench.
Make physical contact constantly. Touch, grab, hug, hold, pinch, poke and push every Wahlert player all game long.
I hate the idea of having to ugly up the game to get a win. To me it is just bad basketball. Not to mention not many schools have the debt to have multiple kids fouling out that your strategy seems to require. If you have to play dirty basketball to play with a team you probably won't get the win anyway.
I think MOC will just need to shoot incredibly well to have a chance. Something which might be difficult due to Wahlert's size and athleticism. I think they could give MOC's shooters some problems. Wahlert is a pretty solid defensive team. I'm not saying MOC can't win, but it will be a tall task. Pemsl is just a beast down low and like I said earlier MOC will have a hard time dealing with him. If they can slow down Pemsl just enough though, hope Wedewer has an off night shooting, and have Jensen and Korver go off from three they might just be able to get enough baskets to come away with a win.
Some people are giving Wahlert and Pemsl too much credit here. Of course they can be beat. Five teams have already done it, and if MOC plays really well, they can too. As far as what "makelovenotwar" said, that's exactly what their substate opponent did, and they almost won with those tactics. In the second half, Wahlert bigs Pemsl, Timmerman, Maiers and Iwowari (all 6-6 to 6-8 guys) did not score a single field goal (!) because they were absolutely pummeled every time they attempted a shot. They did this because Wahlert is a poor free throw shooting team. Credit to Pemsl, who made 10 of 11 free throws in a very tense atmosphere to seal the win. Somebody said that MOC is good at upsetting a set offense. Wahlert does not run a set offense, and rarely runs plays. Their system attacks weaknesses. They can be hard to defend because they have eight senior players who have been starters and double figure scorers and they all play fast and substitute often to stay fresh, a little bit like Pella does. Wahlert is difficult to scout because Coach English changes his game plan/offense/defense/and starters for each particular opponent. When they get beat it is because the other team shoots absolute lights out-- like over 60 percent. I'd like someone to describe how MOC plays. I'm assuming (because I have not seen them) is that they are a good-passing, quick, finesse team with great shooters and two big-time athletes who can create their shot. I know that MOC is one of the highest scoring teams in the state, and have won three state championships over the years. For those who don't know, MOC- FV is Maurice- Orange City- Floyd Valley.
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Watching Pemsl the last few years at the state tournament...he is soft! Get someone in his grill and force him to move a lot get Pemsl into foul trouble and he gets frustrated easily. If Wahlert is going to beat you, you want it to be by the other guys. Their experience is unmatched, but would love to see them go down!
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