2A Game Talk - Western Christian, Hull (22-2) vs. Camanche (23-2)
- Thread starter LukeFeddersen
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Camanche is most definitely the most frustrating team I've ever watched play. This type of approach and effort will never succeed at the state tournament.
Camanche looked just horrible all around. Chucking up deep 3's and playing absolutely no defense is not going to beat many teams, especially a good one like Western. Western just attacked them all game rolling to an easy win. One of the most lopsided semi final games I have ever seen.
Their game plan was head scratching. After watching them Monday night against Cascade I thought maybe they just played a bad game. They played the exact same way today and the game was over 8 minutes in.
Honestly not the least bit surprised. Probably only a couple teams in WC's district Comanche could have beat.
The state needs to change something. Comanche would have finished 8th in the Siouxland but they can make the state tourney?
When is the @iahsaa going to learn NW Iowa is dominant in 1A and 2A and somehow try to schedule differently? Many sub state games should be state semi final games!
The boys association is atrocious! Get the best teams to state! IF your team isn't the best team too bad....sorry! Girls association gets it right or at leasts tries to get it right! Down right frustrating for other capable teams across the state to see a 50 point game in the semifinals!
You will never get the best teams to state. that's the beauty of the upset and the cinderella stories.
However, the IGHSAU seems to have it right. Split up those top teams and give them a chance. It makes the regular season mean something. there is no reason for Sioux Center and Western to battle every year to get to state.
WC beats West Lyon by 1, beats Sioux Center by 4 and then wins the state semi by 50. they scored 94 points with a running clock for a quarter and a half
However, the IGHSAU seems to have it right. Split up those top teams and give them a chance. It makes the regular season mean something. there is no reason for Sioux Center and Western to battle every year to get to state.
WC beats West Lyon by 1, beats Sioux Center by 4 and then wins the state semi by 50. they scored 94 points with a running clock for a quarter and a half
If #8 seed South Hamilton doesnt blow their double digit lead over Western Christian.....are we still arguing that NW Iowa got robbed?
Yes, because there were 5 teams in substate 1 better than Comanche, Cascade, South Hamilton, and Garner Hayfield. JMO.
Teams like West Lyon, Rock Valley, Sioux Center, and Sheldon are all state quality teams. I don't think any system gets them all there, but something needs to change.
Forget the regional politics. Just give HS fans the chance to see the best complete at a state-wide level.
The regional bragging just distracts from the argument. Other regions are consistently better in other sports & deserve the same chance.
No need to go crazy with travel, but at least make an effort to separate top programs. It's what they're doing for state seeding already
The regional bragging just distracts from the argument. Other regions are consistently better in other sports & deserve the same chance.
No need to go crazy with travel, but at least make an effort to separate top programs. It's what they're doing for state seeding already
This is correct and I look for Western to drop off a bit. Unless the Assn changes district formats I'm betting someone other than Western will come from Substate 1.
What? If Western Christian loses first rd you still make the claim?
I completely agree that NW Iowa has quality basketball, but how are you going to convince the other schools in different regions of the state that accommodations should be made to get more spots in the state tourney for NW Iowa?
I completely agree that NW Iowa has quality basketball, but how are you going to convince the other schools in different regions of the state that accommodations should be made to get more spots in the state tourney for NW Iowa?
I have been waiting for someone to mention that we have two private schools in the championship game. 3 of 4 in semis. that is all.
I have watched Siouxland conference basketball all season and after watching the state games up to this point, I am confident that West Lyon, Sioux Center, Rock Valley, and Sheldon are all state quality teams.
FWIW according to bcmoore substate 1 had 5 of the top 8 teams in 2A.
I am not disputing that. One of the problems is that a team on the east side of the state can look fantastic all year, then lose at the State Tourney and then they suck. Going into the seeding process you dont know until the game is played. Teams from NW Iowa play teams from NW Iowa in the regular season, so any comparison to the other side of the state is tough to do.
What I dont like is that people bitch/moan about how something is unfair, but they offer zero realistic solutions.
What I dont like is that people bitch/moan about how something is unfair, but they offer zero realistic solutions.
There are lots of state quality teams that don't make it. That is part of what makes getting to state so special. Not every good team is going to get there. Yeah in hindsight there probably were multiple NW Iowa teams better than Camanche who could have been there. But we didn't know that for sure until yesterday did we. I highly doubt there was anyone in the state that saw both Camanche and any NW Iowa teams play to compare them. Camanche had only lost 2 games putting up a ton of points in the process. They were ranked 4th on BCMoore coming into state. How could anyone say for sure before yesterday that Sioux Center or West Lyon deserved to be there more. Yeah, now after the fact it is easy. But it wasn't on Monday morning. Honestly before the week began I'm sure many people thought Van Meter and South Hamilton had the weakest resume's and were the most questionable teams at state. Clearly that was the thought when they were seeded. But they both played great and proved they deserved to be there.
That is the problem. It is just impossible to really know how good teams from different parts of the state are until they actually play each other. We can usually assume that NW Iowa teams are going to be among the best, but even that isn't always the case. How can you tell a team that dominated it's competition all year that it can't go to state because a 7 loss NW Iowa team might be better? Even if a team did play weaker competition all year how can you be sure that they still are not a legit team if you have never seen them play? The reality is 8 is just a small number and there are always going to be teams who feel like they should be in that 8. I'm just not sure how we can always get it right. Personally I don't think we can. Even if we revamp the system I think there will always be some left out who feel they should be there. There will always be some left out who quite frankly should be there. I just can't see how we can always get the best 8. It is just the nature of the beast.
That is the problem. It is just impossible to really know how good teams from different parts of the state are until they actually play each other. We can usually assume that NW Iowa teams are going to be among the best, but even that isn't always the case. How can you tell a team that dominated it's competition all year that it can't go to state because a 7 loss NW Iowa team might be better? Even if a team did play weaker competition all year how can you be sure that they still are not a legit team if you have never seen them play? The reality is 8 is just a small number and there are always going to be teams who feel like they should be in that 8. I'm just not sure how we can always get it right. Personally I don't think we can. Even if we revamp the system I think there will always be some left out who feel they should be there. There will always be some left out who quite frankly should be there. I just can't see how we can always get the best 8. It is just the nature of the beast.
I agree, well said. Comanche earned their right to be there by winning the games in front of them.
But, IMO the state needs to make a better attempt to split teams up into different substates. Would the travel suck for some, yes, but do you think teams in NW Iowa would whine about extra travel if their chances to reach the state tournament go up? No way. Somehow the girls have this figured out.
Also, South Dakota class A has a sweet 16 bracket for their state playoffs which allows more teams to show that they deserve to be there.
SD has 5 teams from the same conference at the state tourney. They were split into 3 different Regions.
How spread out is that south Dakota conference? The Siouxland confernce isnt exactly spaced out.
Sorry, it is going to get worse as schools throughout the state consolidate. The communities of Sioux and Lyon Counties have a great economy and its not likely going to see any schools merging any time soon.
Sorry, it is going to get worse as schools throughout the state consolidate. The communities of Sioux and Lyon Counties have a great economy and its not likely going to see any schools merging any time soon.
I'm not sure if comparing the boys system to the girls or even SD is quite fair. I will admit that the girls union still does a better job at trying to split teams up, but we also have to admit that having 5 classes makes it a lot easier. They too would have a lot of issues without that extra class.
SD too is a different situation. They are a smaller state with less teams so it is easier to split things up. They also have more common opponents among each other then you typically see in Iowa. Not to mention the whole east river/west river dynamic, which is a very real thing.
I'm not saying by any means that our current system is perfect. Nobody likes seeing blowouts at the state tournament. I agree that they could do a better job of moving teams around. But we also must admit that there are some geographical limitations and it is always going to be impossible to truly know who the best 8 teams are until we play the games.
Something I just thought of which could be a cool event is like a midseason little state tournament. Take some of the best teams from each part of the state and have a weekend tournament in Des Moines. It would be fun and give us a better idea of where the best basketball is really being played each year. Then they can create the districts based of what we see there. I don't think anything like that would ever happen though.
SD too is a different situation. They are a smaller state with less teams so it is easier to split things up. They also have more common opponents among each other then you typically see in Iowa. Not to mention the whole east river/west river dynamic, which is a very real thing.
I'm not saying by any means that our current system is perfect. Nobody likes seeing blowouts at the state tournament. I agree that they could do a better job of moving teams around. But we also must admit that there are some geographical limitations and it is always going to be impossible to truly know who the best 8 teams are until we play the games.
Something I just thought of which could be a cool event is like a midseason little state tournament. Take some of the best teams from each part of the state and have a weekend tournament in Des Moines. It would be fun and give us a better idea of where the best basketball is really being played each year. Then they can create the districts based of what we see there. I don't think anything like that would ever happen though.
100-120 miles. Dakota Valley (Sioux City) to Madison. SD class A is comparable in student enrollment to Iowa 2A schools.
That is similiar range as the Class 2A substate in NW Iowa.
One thing to consider is if there are 5 great Class A teams in west river in South Dakota, 1 would get state.
One thing to consider is if there are 5 great Class A teams in west river in South Dakota, 1 would get state.
What if the State went to Sub State brackets for 1A and 2A (similar to Regionale for girls) instead of breaking them down into districts?
With the State going to these pods for the first two rounds and the talk of a "Regional Final" type of host site for future tournaments, could they feasibly do this and make 8 big substates rather than 16 district brackets?
With the State going to these pods for the first two rounds and the talk of a "Regional Final" type of host site for future tournaments, could they feasibly do this and make 8 big substates rather than 16 district brackets?
Actually no that isn't true...5 West River teams made it to the Sweet 16. Chamberlain would be a 6 but is right on the edge of east. 4 of the 5 just ended up losing in the Sweet 16.
Last year in NE Iowa, Cascade, Beckman, Monticello, Anamosa, Northeast Gooselake, and Camanche were all top 10 teams. Only 2 could make it to state based on substate pairings. This isn't a Western Iowa anomaly. Could the state be more creative and gerrymander things a bit? Sure. But, someone will get left out every year. The girls have a state-sponsored arbitrary ranking that controls their placements. Do we really want that? Do we want substate with schools 200 miles apart? I'm not sure we do.
South Dakota did it this year with teams that far apart...the state games have been much better this year...blowouts in previous years where games have been close all tournament.
South Dakota has 155 teams in all three levels. Class 1A in Iowa has 154 alone. The reason South Dakota has spread so far reaching is lack of teams. I believe in the AA State in SD there are just 19 teams.
That doesn't change how they went away from regional representation to sweet 16 to get better teams...amount of teams doesn't matter with that
Sure it does... Take class 1A.. stretch the map 200 x less say 75 miles.. how many 1A teams do u come across? A lot more then 16.
